19930403 Namahatta Seminar Importance Of Congregational Preaching

The following was the talk given by His Holiness Jayapatākā svāmī Mahārāja  on April 3rd 1993 in Auckland , New Zealand.

The Talk is given in Nāmahaṭṭa Seminar, Importance of Congregational Preaching

 

 

vande 'ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun Vaiṣṇavas ca

                 sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathan tam tam sa-jivam

sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devam

sri-radha-Kṛṣṇa-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca

 

 

Guru Mahārāja:

 

So today we are having a class/ seminar on Congregational Preaching /Congregational Development.  I saw that Sridhar Swami Mahraj was here to give a presentation on the Fund raising aspect, how many people saw that. TheCongregational development is a broad topic. Describing and discussing things like how to increase, how the congregation, how to cultivate the congregation, how to engage them, how to organize the Nāmahaṭṭa programmes.  And Fundraising is one of the natural services or svadharma we can say that members of the congregation should be engaged in.  And Fund raising in itself is a specialized area.  Now all donors become active congregational members. Nor Active Congregational members are able to make donations.  But there are two goals side by side.  They want to explain how you can see the congregational preacher that's somehow overwhelmed by Fundraising.   Some people they may give but not actually participate in the spiritual program.  Some people will be active participants or students so they are unable to give money.   So they become overwhelmed.  That's one view of it. 

 

There are different views you can take.  But you can also take the whole development of the congregation is improving to the broader aspect.  Parts and gradually develop them.  Get them to join the temple.  So this is the broader aspect of congregational preaching.  so we are discussing  the broader point tonight.  So one thing is to give some background. The ah.. So you know what Śrīla Prabhupāda explained: Lord Caitanya did not build any temples, he didn't write any books, just spread the harinām saṅkīrtan.  And by spreading the harinām saṅkīrtan, then he instructed some of his disciples/followers to write books. Like the Six Goswamis instructed, ah... some of them also build temples. He instructed Nityānanda to go back to Bengal.  And initially Nityānanda started a preaching program which was  called Nāmahaṭṭa.  Nama means the holy name and hatta means the market place.  The marketing of the holy name.  Where everybody in their villages will get together everyday to perform harinām,have Bhāgavatam classes,Worship Kṛṣṇa in their home.  And I see some of those.  In India there is a different situation where we have a community temple and everybody  in the community goes there.  Just like here in  the farm we are building a temple.  Everyone in the community goes.  Just like we are making a little village here.  So in India there are so many villages and in every village so many  temples came up.  And there are few one or two of the villagers , those who preach in the temple and worship like that.   We have Ashrams all over the world where Sanyasis, Brahmacharis,Grihasthas are living and engaging in devotional service.   This was the most recent development which Śrīla Prabhupāda instituted or previously instituted partially by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākur.   And temples with the this type of preaching temples of course was there but they became the main fortress for preaching Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in the past 100 years.  Otherwise before that it was somebody brought,well Rupa Goswami they all have temples.  And in the temple where there was a major devotee.  Very senior devotees staying.  Then that temple became  a sweet spot that became a place where knowledge was disseminated.   What really  makes a temple effective for preaching is preaching devotees.  Just the building does not make a temple effective for  preaching.  But what makes them effective is that we have preaching devotees.   Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākura he had restarted the Nāmahaṭṭa  in 1800. And then the Nityānanda prabhu who originally started.  So we did not know much about this Nāmahaṭṭa movement until we got a book that Śrīla Prabhupāda had published. When he was in Gauḍīya Math he was editor and president of the magazine called Gauḍīya Patrika.

 

 And in that magazine he said that there is a very interesting article this shows that how Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur was doing the preaching of Nāmahaṭṭa.  When we got that  edition than we asked the blueprint on what Nāmahaṭṭa was.  I had asked Śrīla Prabhupāda in 1977 for some guidance about potential preaching for the congregational people in india who are already chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.  He said that we can make a department an organization for that within ISKCON for preaching.   He gave some guidelines about that.  I don't really know what to do ,what to call it,and what  to add an idea called ISKCON saṅkīrtan or so.  But then we got this book on Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākura and he was very clear.   He explained in the sense the they have the Holy dhām which are very  main commercial centres just like all big commercial centres [unclear7.56- 8.00] everybody will come and do shopping. So Holy dhāms are like that we can go on, get so much association ,you can do programs,Parikramas and so many different things are there.  So many festivals in a very big place.  So that was Holy dhām especially like Vṛndāvan and Māyāpur and Puri they are very special category.  Then we have here a temple, a preaching temple which are situated.  These are ike  holy dhām like sitting commercial centre.  We have preaching temple these  are like super market.   You go to temple thats  is a beautiful deities,devotees,regular program then classes,sometimes there is a Gurukul.  So its like you go to  Supermarket you get more or less everything you need in groceries in the supermarket.  But certainly its an another level of marketing which is called Nāmahaṭṭa ,we call it an  congregational room for gatherings.  So many different names are there.  So they are like small quarter grocery stores.  They call the utility store.  We can get emergency need.  We get some flowers, we get some water or many essential things you can get.   You may not get everything you get in the supermarket.   But we can get the basic things we need.  So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura explained in this way, that this was a concept that a Nāmahaṭṭa they can reach everywhere.Holy dhāms are only in the .. they are only in the week. Holy dhāms  /Temples have certain  limitation like how many temples we can build.   Such ideas was there that Nāmahaṭṭa should be everywhere.  And he personally established around 500 active Nāmahaṭṭas.  He used to call them Prapanna Ashram.  An ashram for surrender.  He established a program called Shradha Kutir.   Shradha  means faith and kutir means home.  This is for families.  Where the whole family unit is practicing Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.  So this is another basic movement to get families.   Many Times we find one family  Kṛṣṇa Consciousness at a place.  And this is break….  And they are really fired up. They are doing the Mangal ārati and everything.  So if we don't have anybody else to make a Nāmahaṭṭa.  So the Shraddha Kutir is like basic family  very strong.  So this is the basic concept.  So Prabhupāda when i asked him what to do.  He said bring the congregational members to your temple 3 days a week.  Let them see, train them up and send them out and let them do it in their own village.  That was the Indian program.  So we started that movement in India about 2000 Nāmahaṭṭas.  Each Nāmahaṭṭa has around 20 to 100 members.  2000 with 100000 people are in connection.  We have annual celebrations, annual seminars every year.  Sometimes after Gaur Poornima.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         This year 1500 Delegates came.  This was the biggest Gaur Poornima festival  3 days after Gaur Poornima.   They came with their banners and everything and they all spoke of the problems they are facing in preaching,with programs,sharing ideas.  As you know this year Māyāpur had a good fortune of winning the Christmas  Marathon by Kṛṣṇas mercy.  The Nāmahaṭṭa Devotees , we distributed 38000 BGs. 35 or 38 I don't know the exact number.  The Nāmahaṭṭa congregational members distributed 22000 BGS and they also did like 20000 BTG subscription.   So this is the first year that we newlite the Nāmahaṭṭa for Book distribution.  Now everybody in India we had a meeting where everyone wanted to utilize the Congregation for BD.  So that's a little background in India.   Of Course GBC body is been  understanding that this is the major area we need to proceed in.  They made this as the mission statement area.   And the monitor of the mission statement so we are supposed to help people in whatever help they want to try to help them.  The mission statement presently in ISKCON for congregational programs is  “That on the order of Lord Caitanya to see that all people living at home also embraces faithfully the practices of worshipping Lord Kṛṣṇa,chanting Lord KṛṣṇaKṛṣṇas Holy name and studying Lord Kṛṣṇa teachings.  And to also involve them in marketing the saṅkīrtan movement for the upliftment of the Fallen souls in accordance with Lord Nityānanda's Divine Example.   So we want everyone to worship Lord Kṛṣṇa,Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa,and study Kṛṣṇas teachings.  This is what Lord Caitanya ordered everyone to do.  Bolo Kṛṣṇa,Bhajo Kṛṣṇa,karo Kṛṣṇa Siksha.  ”In the Nāmahaṭṭa Bhajan i was looking at the song book Also this is the point which Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur stresses.   Everybody can chant  ,everybody can worship and everybody can read.  And the next thing is to help in preaching they can also preach.  Maybe they are busy in maintaining their families but they also can give some time for preaching.  So we made some supporting objectives for this mission Statement.  This is our present ISKCON mission. This is one of our 20 mission statements we want to do. To achieve that there are some supporting objectives.  These are like steps we have to achieve in order to achieve this thing to get Everybody to be involved like this. Some supporting Objectives. 

 

One of them is to involve the congregational members and utilizing their natural propensities in devotional activities with ISKCON temple and Nāmahaṭṭa Groups.  Like in many temples they found that the congregational members some are lawyers,some are doctors,some are accountants have so many practical abilities.  So they can offer these abilities to ISKCON and help by giving their service. 

 

Another objective is to  provide for the  congregation of ISKCON gradual steps of easily attainable progressive spiritual level to enthuse them to increase the devotional practices. There is a system for doing that that was accepted by GBC.  Some of the modalities of how to implement it are still in discussion.  Chairman has asked everybody to hold on.  But it's already been resolved by the GBC.  We should have a gradual program for elevating them.  So here is a pair made of a gradual program.  Actually we have made another.  .  What we have done is  we spoke to Nāmahaṭṭa member its subscribers and members.  members those who are regular.  Actually there are 3/4 new lines there.  The GBC were to spoke to one of the  Nāmahaṭṭa member.  The GBC were to spoke to Nāmahaṭṭa member.  One round of regular attendant.  There is a program called shraddhavan, Satsangi.  Thats been approved by the GBC that people chant one round regularly come to the temple or Nāmahaṭṭa group.  They can be recognised as Satsanga or Satsangi member's of the congregation.  The next above that is Kṛṣṇa sevak basically doing 4 rounds , vegetarians ,coming and doing service.  Then there is Sadhak which is  8 rounds doing worship in their home regular practice following basic principles.  Then finally take shelter of Prabhupāda.  Same standard as a Bhakta. 

 

We wanna promote this rather than prematurely promoting people for initiation.  Try to get them shelter of Prabhupāda.  Once they are fixed up in following Śrīla Prabhupād.  Then when they become  a little mature about Who the Gurus are? What Diksha Is? , then everything, then they can take shelter of Guru and finally take initiation. This program of gradually recognising congregational members is gonna be implemented now in ISKCON.  And we found that UFO means Unidentified Friends of our Organisation.   (laughter).  If I  thought I was an aliens or something.  I thought I will keep you suspense there. We found that actually just like in the donor pyramid the first donation is like that's the next thing after the Universe. So this is like the universe, an universal of friend's.  Our unknown  friend's, potential friends. The next thing is the first positive response.  For our preaching is not even a donation.  Donation is a positive response.  But even if somebody answers a letter in your……….in your book sometimes you have your reply cards.   Or somebody comes to the  temple and leaves a message you know their address,any kind of first positive response you get from someone that means they are starting to show interest in associating with ISKCON.  Just like the next level.  And it's very important that we start following up on those positive responses.   And to get them to become a member of your congregation subscriber, donor of the congregation. Or somehow get them firmly connected even before there is ,any rules or regulations.

 

 

Just somehow get them to feel a part. Then after that get them to chant a round.  And understand some of the philosophy. Once you get them on the spiritual pyramid.  Than once you see they are doing 1 round and it's very easy to go to 4 round and it's easy to go to 8 and then pretty soon in couple of years they will be fixed up devotees.  But you have to take it gradually, you try to push them too quick, then they sometimes become discouraged or they become,ah... what to say you know. 

 

In ISKCON language they become fried out but you know  they become overwhelmed on ya it's like overpressured they feel stressed. On the other hand if we don't encourage them sometimes they won't take the next step so both the things are needed that's where cultivation and actually senior preachers taking and having an involvement with the congregational members is very important.  So we have a very nice seminar this year.  Sachinandan Maharaj is a very active congregational Preacher in Northern Europe.  Kripamoya Prabhu from the UK.  And other preachers in south Africa and all over the world.   They came and gave their practical ideas.  So Sachinandan Maharaj , he said that first thing we need.  He sounded up like this first thing we need first of all we need to get contacts.  I saw right that down sure basically. 

 

 

So how do we get  contacts he found out  that there are different kinds of contact.  Do you know what the best contact is [Devotee-Break unable 21:32-21-42]

 

Guru Mahārāja : alright,then you know somebody is favourable but that's ok, that's very rare actually nobody ever mentioned that before that some who is [unclear 22:00] but we all live and learn it's a good idea .Well because we are trying to cultivate people so if you find someone that's a good point.  So he found that he has basic ways to get contacts, we get letters to the temple.  We get guests who come to Sunday feast.  We get people who come to big programs and public festivals and fill all response cards and than we have people that do some saṅkīrtan contacts like saṅkīrtan devotees they get contacts from people whom they meet.  So those 4 which one you think is the best with his experience. 

 

devotee:break 

 

Guru Mahārāja :That's one choice

 

devotee :-Sunday feast 

 

Guru Mahārāja :   Sunday feast.  letters. anybody else you get one last time, So His experience was letters to the temple are best and guests to the Sunday feast who show interest in philosophy or interest in the programme,they are the next best.   His analysis was because they came by their own initiative like somebody writes a letter , he as to sit down and he has to put that effort to write that letter.  And when someone comes to a program anything where they have to use their own initiative is a symptom that they are more ready to be cultivated.  And those people who just come to our big programs  through a response card is like a little spark is there.  But then he had to follow it up quickly later afterwards and fan that spark and see if they get further response.  You know what  happened is ,he found is that this two things the big program and saṅkīrtan contact.  I think in Germany they don't have restaurants ,otherwise it will be interesting to see a restaurant customers hasn't really figured in this particular present case.,otherwise it will be interesting  know how the restaurant work in this regard.  this is a very new pioneering field we are just gathering information from everyone incase anybody here has some new  idea don't hesitate to speak out it's a open forum at the end ask for your input at the end of different segments.  So he found that the program, festival and saṅkīrtan contacts that the impact is short lived.   Neither the saṅkīrtan devotee  makes a good impression.  The saṅkīrtan devotees talks a thing that the person is quite favourable how long the person remember the saṅkīrtan devotee you know a maximum like 15 days will be a very strong recollection in most cases.  There may be a rare person who never forgets you.  But that's like maybe he is meant to be a devotee anyway Generally that so many things happening so many that within the first week or 2 weeks there is a immediate followup while the saṅkīrtan devotee writes a personal letter.  He just signs it depending on how well organised it is.  They thought it's better saṅkīrtan devotees somehow is connected with the because if a person gets a letter.  Hey you met so and so I met that person he has a personal relationship with the saṅkīrtan devotee.  so even if its done by computer.  So the saṅkīrtan devotees just puts in a little personalization the whole thing spring it out and some smaller program.  Whetter that saṅkīrtan devotees has time to personally write a Letter.If it comes safe.  Remember we met outside of the mesis or kmart and wherever and we had a nice discussion.  I would like to take up ,you know this opportunity you know rest of the form  letter may come in,may be  invite to the temple or to follow it up or how or to what do you think of the book you read.  and if any of you get the response from that, that means you got a hot lead.  that person can be cultivated and further developed.  If you don't get a response may be try one more time and ask after that what can you do.  see have to sift the names.  so the next thing is sifting. So sifting the names.  So sifting you know like gold sifting gets out the essence.  Because sometimes you get.  There are so many names it's hard to pick out.  Sometimes the saṅkīrtan devotees think a person is really fired up.  bit actually when you call them up they are actually not interested.  They were interested because they are meeting on saṅkīrtan Devotees.  They got inspired.  Like a special thing.  If immediately they are been followed up may  be that person  would have become a very good lead.  But it wasn't followed up.

 

So he says it's very important to get some responses from people to get a sign of interest.   The sign of their  life that they are àctually interested and if they show that somehow they are giving a response that means sometimes we send all  these names we send reply card what did you think about the program?it was good, interesting, disappointing,even if they say they don't like it just show some response shows that they are little bit you know they are interested like Jesus Christ said if you are Hot or Cold like you take hot water or cold water I will drink it but if it's like warm I will spit it out.  They are disinterested, not much you can do at this point. We have to conserve our energy, temples don't have huge budgets to spend on massive databases to do (break).  so it's important to shift.  The main important thing is that we get responses from them may be sending a 3 months magazine,after invoking a response then comes cultivation.  Next stage is cultivation.

 

 

so our cultivation is to get them to chant hare Kṛṣṇa have japa first but at least attend the programs somehow get them to come to the programs,may be at some bodies house, get them to read Prabhupāda books. Get them to have association with Devotees either personal association or letters or phone calls.  You need to keep a contact the more contact they get sadhu sanga, that will take them up to the next level.  than you get them to.  In other words what basic things we are seeking? What is mentioned in Nectar of devotion 5 things which are most important what is that?

 

1.  Chanting

2.  Srimad Bhāgavatam

3.  Association of devotees

4/5.  workshiipiñg deities and the holy dhām. 

 

so these 5 things are most important for congregational preaching,chanting hare Kṛṣṇa ,reading Prabhupāds books, associating with devotees,some kind of association,  worship,getting them to do home worship,  tulsi worship , Prabhupāda said that we can give tulsi seed they can grow it, there is no Karma or offences for that.  If you give up plants there could be offenses if they do not take care properly,seeds are special, unless you know the person very pakka.  Then dhām these temples are like the dhām coming to temple getting this type of association with so many devotees establish deities. These are like in New Zealand these temples are little replicas of holy dhām.  the people can go to.  So the Five principle of Nectar Of Devotion we follów those, then after you cultivate then and build their attachment to Kṛṣṇa.  Then what's the next thing you wanna do. When somebody is attached to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness what do wanna do. 

 

devotee :-can't hear. 

 

Guru Mahārāja : Engage them in service,we wanna engage them, you don't have engagement, you know How it is? then what happens your mind gets swayed out you don't know what to do.  We get into you know.  For them it's essential to get engaged in some kind of service.  Having a newsletter  is very essential. This is  like a umbilical cord for them getting magazine getting newsletter source of engaging when you read.  Having a membership program it's also an engagement.  May be a friendship circle or some kind of membership or getting prasadam.  and we found that in tirupati temple they said their donors prasadam every quarter every Three months they can engage the congregation in Sunday feast.  they can come and help in cooking they can cook in the roof cut sabji and they can do other thing outside they can have musical contests hear devotees giving lectures somehow we have to engage them this is also we had our program in Melbourne  what are the kind of engagements that congregational people can do and all they had congregational devotees they did different things like first they have regular home programs where they get together to read chant than food for life, children programs local festival. In South Africa they have in Durban around 30 Janmashtami festival.  Our temple had 30 festivals.  They have 20  Nāmahaṭṭas around the Durban temple.  And each Nāmahaṭṭa organise some organise 2 festival in local village or area that men's they  rent a hall or get a park or something devotees have a tent. They go there and set it up and they put on Janmashtami festival but all the prasadam cooking local advertisement all of the organisation is done by the local congregational group the Nāmahaṭṭa group. This way for one month they had. They have one Janmashtami you know, formal Abhishek and.  .  but they have like you know how it's a common thing in India you know formal program in commemoration of something you get together in sentenial people talk about Kṛṣṇas birth time and they have some culture program children do Bharatanatyam or  fancy dress. The whole evening program is like a little festival in commemoration of Janmashtami which is coming in next so many days so for one month everyday they are having Janmashtami evening Festival program in different places. And  then they all get  together, massive Janmashtami festival program on the actual day in the temple.  So organising local festivals is a thing that they can do  special study programs harinām these are more or less when you have actual group.  What groups  can do is a lot more than individuals.  In the UK,in London in South London they do is outreach programs there is a Nāmahaṭṭa group that is mainly  professional people doctors lawyers you were in London you know that Ramfort (can't get)they have 2 dollars a week they give frée time in the City Hall to give medical ,whatever you call medical consultation to the public  so that is very appreciated by the city hall the people they are giving frée medical treatment in this way plus they also do harinām on Wednesday they  go out all those local doctors, lawyers doing harinām on the street a big impact so those are their Nāmahaṭṭa is 80% British and 20 % ethnic British and 20 % may be the Indian background and they also participate in township annual parades and like that.  So a lot of programs going around the world it's very very inspiring. When we hear about it, off course book distribution is anothér activity, vegetarian cooking class is another activity.  Some of the  better  cooks ,they can give classes in the community.  of course they can raise funds for temples like you are doing a temple construction project.  so the congregation can be active in raising funds for that.  So these are some of the types of activities you can do to engage them in devotional service.Have to engage them, then you….  individual engagement and group engagement.  So next thing is to create this type of Nāmahaṭṭa programs we actually have groups so there are  2 parts in the temple.  To regularly attend, then it's better to have a ….have them get together, their one day a week at least. So this shows that in temples we have, ahh..regarding the temple we have the people who live close enough to the temple. They can be regular visitors, attend Mangal ārati or come very regularly to All the programs.   There are some people a loiter further away they can't come to Mangal ārati very easily but they are close enough so they come for Sunday program but most of them have possible to attend a separate kind of Nāmahaṭṭa Program. So they get together and have a Home Program.  Than  we have a wide,may be province or a state a wider region.  In India where these are people who stay too far away to come regularly to the temple.  It is essential to maintain when you organize such programs then they can come.  There was one lady she was very active but being psychological [unclear 38:07- 38:14].   She was complaining about the devotee about congregational preaching, public relations hip,communications in England.  I was saying her that if I have to go to TM than I have to go to down to  block every city have got TM meditation centre.  They have Psychology, they got one everywhere.  if you wanna go  to some yoga centre may be in the next city within 39 kms, find a some place to do yoga meditation.  But if I wanna  go to Hare Kṛṣṇa centre I have to go all the way to temple which 100 or 200 Kms away.  Why don't you make yourself more accessible to people?  You are trying to keep it to yourself or everyone. I know I want to participate but you make it so difficult. So basically this is the practical thing. People want Kṛṣṇa Consciousness  but we have to be able to give it to them.  In where they are they are not all gonna just come to the temple.  They are not able to be too far away.   Forming a group it's not that also a systematic program how to form.   a group.  This idea we got from Prabhupād.  He had told Lokanath Maharaj to make a group in his village.  and then he told Lokanath how I do it. Don't you have some responsible person in your village?  Someone who is very responsible and very favourable.  Yes one uncle he is chanting okay than you make him the head.  Then you get him to organize and you work through him.  So we have a lot of intricacies when we get factually when we were talking with congregational preachers there are always problems come up  and I could deal with that but just to get an overview.  But the basic thing is to start to go to make one or family some key people.  At Least one key person whom you can rely on.  In a group if you have one person that is giving a house or reliable people can know go there.  That's enough [unlear 40:39-40:43].  We have some dedicated people.  people that also relish the chanting in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness  they are like the luxurious keepers the keepers that and Dedicatedly people who are ludicrous.   Then we have people who are active who actively come.  They may go here and there but they are still active. They regularly come from a group that has occasional people who come often but they are not so committed yet.  Than we have people just like friends when they have in a you might find in a  Nāmahaṭṭa group when they have a Janmashtami Program lot of friends would come but they won't go Regularly but they don't come otherwise they come for some program.  So the circle they have the whole circle of influence and they can develop within that If you see like we went back to the previous, remember the previous  where you have a temple than we have. 

 

break 

 

To come so then he made a plan. When he came he went to his house and took some fresh lime.  Not like lime  lemon lime like put on the wall.  He put down in the water and gave it a good mixture.  And he became very wild like he cannot put the lime.  He made a special mix.  Then he went to milk from the cows.  The man was saying why the milk isn't good enough.  He started complaining.  This is your milk from your cows.  This is pure milk.  But we have to understand this is the milk from my house.  This is the cows milk now. 

 

 

 

Here is another scenario The temple don't have their Nāmahaṭṭa groups.  Which are settled next to each temple.  like here you see Auckland [unclear 42:3- 42:40].  But that happens that the GBC cannot make the devotee be the Nāmahaṭṭa director.  He can create his own unit preach in all the  areas that the temple would cover we don't have the situation where he say that there is no Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in that area.   And where they cultivate all the people that are congregationally active outside the temple.  that's a new thing that GBC accepted this year.  That you can have a Nāmahaṭṭa directorate and every temple is alloted it's area for congregational Preaching.  Like it should be divided up which temple is responsible for which area.  And that will be the area that the temple should develop. Then the temples can develop outside the city.  If you don't want to do it. Then the GBC [unclear 43:52] can make one devotee responsible like who concentrates on Nāmahaṭṭa all over the places.  So these are some practical points up to now.  Anybody has any comments or questions. 

anything you like to add. 

 

devotee:-In.   situation where (unclear) programs.  but not to (unclear Will that minimize the association with devotees. 

 

Guru Mahārāja : Now like in lella Peru they have Three temples in one city.  But the cities are aschin.  They have a big city ,the city with 6 million people.  And just to go to a city.  To go from one side to another side takes an hour.  Like in Bombay to get to the temple to the down town takes an hour and a half even one city like in Bombay to get to the temple to down town  takes an hour and a half.  Even for one city it's quite a distance.  So what they have done is they have organized.  So these are like satellite Nāmahaṭṭas.   One preacher from the temple they go to the programs he does program from Monday to Friday and in 5 different groups and in local neighborhoods. And then every Sunday they all come together to the temple.  So they never come to the temple.  The temple is actually quite far from where they are living; it wouldn't have been possible.  And in leela Peru everyone doesn't have a  Car that they can just drive.   They will all be taking busses and things to go and come from an hour in a bus and get to work. It's not possible so they have a local get together.  which also brings in a lot of new people.  And then the more fixed up people they go to the temple on Sunday.  So programs like that.  That local Nāmahaṭṭa should meet.  Sometimes the temples have a program because you want them to get the association that's the dhām that will build up their faith more.  They want them to get together with their own  satsang and their own association with devotees. When we want them to come  to temple it's a dhām, it's a special atmosphere. 

 

devotee: unclear

 

Guru Mahārāja :In the Nāmahaṭṭa group

 

devotee: unclear

 

 

Guru Mahārāja : We have to get the contacts we have to  sift the names and  cultivate them.  Through letters I mean biggest number of names you get is through saṅkīrtan.  but then sift up and then follow up from them those get the good ones, then to follow up on those that's the program that requires a needed apartment.  We need someone to be doing it, department or at least someone doing this.  Following that it's closely related to fund raising but the difference is Fundraising you are basically tracing your donations.   Where this is the broad congregational development, donations are the only response because if someone, I mean there are so many devotees they may have never given donation before they became a devotee because financially they were not in that kind of position or whatever. But in getting people to be devotees of the congregation we look for various types of responses of which donations is one of them.  But that's not the only one where we are focusing on.  So obviously when they are doing Mela to get funds then we are going to concentrate on donors specifically.  But if you are trying to raise more active devotees then.

 

 Devotees themselves can raise funds, maybe he doesn't give a donation.  But he may raise a fund.  We find that some of the smaller donors in some of the temples are way more active in fundraising.  They give up to their capacity but they know many people.  And they introduce those people to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So sometimes a person's value is much more than that it shows off on the donor amount that he is giving,  because I don't know how to integrate both but trying to cover the broader sphere.  We want people to become dedicated devotees and then those are the kind of People who will be there.  At some point of their life they will surrender ,they will be very active in preaching Kṛṣṇa Consciousness themselves.  So Indians are natural allies of course if you have an Indian  community that's a very solid base. But we want to extend it beyond Indian community also. 

 

devotees: unclear

 

Guru Mahārāja :  Indian people are very good members of the congregation.  And they usually to the ability though, it's a very high chance for the donors to some degree but they are also very much family connected. So there is a…. In the west I don't know the percentage but you will find the active in the congregation but they may not miss or join communities easily because they are more well situated in their family.  You see the western people are not always very peaceful in their family or tend to be  ;living in the more able to cut off that base.  but I don't have the statistics on that.  That it seems to be now  we have some preachers in the west, I’m specifically speaking about western preachers.  like for instance Sachinandan Maharaj he went  to summon up like in Germany first thing he said it's not heaven on earth.  It's a struggle, it's a constant struggle.  He said we have to be prepared to struggle to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.   Preaching is always a challenge for the preacher.  You know sometimes just  like lying in the corner exhausted after so much preaching.  We wanted to let everyone know that on one end it's not easy there, some effort that we have to put into it,  but we also want to tell you that he asked me to tell people what was the progress they were able to achieve.  So they have one problem that they made many Nāmahaṭṭa in Germany.  But we find that the Nāmahaṭṭa groups are not remaining Nāmahaṭṭa groups they are transforming into ISKCON temples.  So it's a big problem for congregational preaching programs.  All these congregational groups are turning into temples but somehow he is able to overcome this obstacle and he is still going on.  But it's true the Germans are so,  you know German,when they take something up they really take it up.  So when they started Nāmahaṭṭa they usually get all fired up and they all rent a flats in the same apartment building and they start having Mangal ārati classes before they go to work. 

 

And very soon they buy the building and make it a temple.  And that has happened in certain places. Infact one Nāmahaṭṭa devotee is a multi millionaire and he donated a temple in Colon.   just gave a whole temple to ISKCON.  There is another dynamic Nāmahaṭṭa centres in that they have in Keel these are all musicians.  They are all famous musicians; in fact of their particular music style.  So they have a very good contact with youth.  So the whole Nāmahaṭṭa is all these musicians get together and  then they do you know musical festivals and things they always speak about Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.  So they also distribute 300 books or something a month to their friends on contact.  So see they have a lot of success.  Now Germany only had few Temples years ago but now they have somewhere from 11 to 12 temples and most of it is come from Nāmahaṭṭas gradually growing into Temples.  it's a very organic way ,if you already have whole number of  people interested in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness  they are getting together they are having regular programs. And Preachers go there and they cultivate them .  Even if you want to send a full time peacher there you already have a base.  or one of them wants to get tired of working, something wants to be a full time carrier preacher so it organically devélops.  So another example is given, is like how they teach these purposes to jump.  you know how the whales and tortoise's jump 12 feet.  It's like amazing how did they do, surprisingly the secret is first have to go through the hoop under  water just to get them get through the hoop, all these fish on the other side or something get them to go through.  And eventually they get habituated to going through the hoop then they start lifting up a little bit Half in the water half out they go through it and they lift a little over the water and then another 1 foot then it's not that all at once they jump 12 feet and near go through hoop.  But over a period of months and years of gradual practice and training they are gradually able to jump through this high hoop.  So somehow some Devotees are able to surrender very easily but the vast majority of people when they hear regulative principles and then they see our lifestyle. 

 

 

You know Even Indian community they have so much respect for the devotees for all the austerities and the general people can't figure it out.  It is very difficult for them to visualize themselves. You know jumping this hoop 12 feet in the air.  Just like something like that for them. That is why we had that gradual program of elevation, so that they can make it easy steps, more easy steps for them to rise upon.  So that's the whole idea to make it and you know this is not a complete lesson they mentioned.  The first thing is to just keep them to a subscriber or member and then ones he is Nāmahaṭṭa member here that's Shraddhavan or Sat sangi one they have faith in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness they start to chant around the day.  So big step they actually taking Kṛṣṇa Consciousness their religion.  And just trying to chant or japa everyday.  And like this step by step you take them up.   So it's the next level of the  hoop that they can visualize.  You could chant 10 mins a day. You can’t ask people.  Usually if they are a little serious they are coming.  They are already subscribers or members of your programs to get them to chant one round a day is not that difficult.  And then once you know they are vegetarian then you see they are not drug addicts.  You can get them to be little more serious little clean up their situation.  Then you can get them to go 4 rounds like gradually getting them to increase.    You don't want people to feel second class, you want them to feel like Lord Caitanya when he was asked who is a devotee. If anybody chants Hare Kṛṣṇa once he is a devotee.  He said who should we respect. He said you should respect all devotee but the neophyte devotees who are not following all the rules and regulations you should respect them in your heart just treat them nicely and those who are initiated and who are following the principles you bow down to them and call them Prabhu and those who are like spiritual masters who are preachers,that are able to eradicate the doubts of people who are very senior preachers than they should be respected in higher level but everyone Lord Caitanya was requesting everyone should be respected and sometimes in ISKCON in the past we have the idea that well.

 

If you are in the temple you are a devotee and if you are outside than its like you are a demon or something but now we are seeing that that attitude doesn't bring good dividends and actually the people outside are lot of them are nice devotees they are friends, they chant ,they believe in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness but we just not have cultivated them so now we want the Devotees to go a little higher level, they are brāhmaṇas they are brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇavas who are taking responsibility for delivering the society and that their carrier occupation or that their whole you know Swadharma that they are engaging in this saṅkīrtana movement and there are other members who are still working in work forest and they are not that able to give all that much time there are different levels of spirituality we are trying to lift them up higher and higher cultivate them bring them up to the surrendered state. The biggest thing for this we want people to feel respected to have them feel that they belong to ISKCON.  And we shouldn't feel intimidated by that.  That somehow, because the devotee who all know the philosophy and all that if you want to get back to godhead if you want to get love of Kṛṣṇa we have to be fully focused. So the fact that other people were respecting us different types of Devotees and different that …... does than our own commitment to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.  We know that unless you come to the certain level you may not get back to Kṛṣṇa in one life.  That doesn't mean other people are devotees they may take them  few lives to get back or may be later in this life they will surrender we don't want to discourage them that will be violence on them, we want to encourage them as much as we can and their devotional service.

 

 And we know that this was the quality that Śrīla Prabhupāda, had he would fan the spark, a little bit of spark of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and he would fan that. So we are very grateful to Sridhar Mahārāja. They shown how the congregation is of financial importance. This particular statistics is from the 1992 1991 1993 survey I don't have a ready( break).  But this part to the question Text 29 I asked the temples around the world what is the financial importance of the congregation? and the bottom line is global and the upper one is just the North America.  Made a presentation in North America last year. The 50% of the temples around the world, they are main states the congregational support was the main stay in the temple and major help was almost 25 %. The combination comes around 40% and helpful was 40% only 20 -25% setup was minimal help 75% they are major help or main state so in the future we should be able to have our preachers who should be able to preach and not have to do so much fund raising you know like collection just selling unrelated paraphernalia you all like PhDs or master degree holder on spiritual in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, you can preach to so many people so much effort has to go maintaining financially and selling and so on.  So yes the temples can be supported by the congregation.   We needed to preach to the congregation and to keep them Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.  To keep them enlivened to cultivate them and have them move up  the involvement ladder.  So that reciprocation they need that reciprocation and as the congregation goes they start to look at the devotees within the community and they read the books and they say wait a minute every body is supposed to go to Mangal ārati I went to Mangal ārati one time but I didn't see lot of these Devotees.

 

Sometimes congregational members are more critical more like observant you know ,because they know they observe everything they observe why he did this ,why does that ,so what happens that devotees actually have to be just like for your children you want to be good example for your congregation you have to be a very good example because they  watch what they are doing why all their priest in the temple are doing you are all the reverence you know it's one thing when you are just like  kind of little group and it's only Devotees and when you got 60000 or several thousand people who are looking up to you as priest and they are watching what you are doing and how you are speaking and so then they don't have to see their priest outside with t-shirts they will not like their priest not be doing that.  And  in the future you will see as the congregation develop they want to support more and more the temples so that the preachers can go to their homes and service them their spiritual needs. So Śrīla Prabhupāda has talked about Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in the home. One thing the best process of making the home pleasant is Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. If one is in full Kṛṣṇa Consciousness he can make his home very happy.  Because this process of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is very easy we need to only chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Accept the remnants of food stuffs offered to Kṛṣṇa. Have some books like Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and engage oneself in deity worship so these Four things make one happy. 

 

One should train the members of his family in this way the family members can sit down morning and evening and chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa Mahamantra of one can mould his family life in this way and develop Kṛṣṇa Consciousness following the four principles than no need to change from family life to renounced life.  And Prabhupāda talks about household devotees how they can do the path of deity worship.   Establish deity worship in their homes.  He wrote in 1974 to a doctor my dear doctor Mr. Hugol.  My dear Hugol Salemon he said my blessings so far you have worshipped lord Jagannath in your home and you are becoming initiated. It's alright provided you have a recommendation of the temple president.  So Prabhupāda also told the people to be initiated who are living in the house of course it is not like anyone is excluded from being my disciple.  They donate a cent percent to attend all of the programs but they should be encouraged to attend as far as possible. Living outside and working  are  not prohibited and is not recommended and such strict rule like no outside living should be enforced but living in association of Devotees is better. From outside there is never any objection or inconvenient for temple e living.  We know it's better, living with association of Devotees. That's why we are living together but some people they are also….they are not able to.  We are not able to provide them with that facility.  It goes both ways so any other question or comment. 

 

devotee: About 10 year ago I worked with one devotee jai gopinath. We were at a program selling Prabhupāda books and we found out that people were sending 5 dollars or more 30 %of them (unable to get). 

 

Guru Mahārāja  people have response cards in festival

 

devotee: we saw and got some 30 or 100 response cards that weren't very good at all.  out of 100 cards came in just like you know quick response.  May be 1 in 100 and than people we met in street 19 out of 20 were lies people may get their names and address we follow up their traffic always.

 

Guru Mahārāja : Sometimes the saṅkīrtan devotees think this is really really potential Devotee nice person and you know than when the congregational people want to follow up and find out their lot of times it doesn't work out thats why book distributors themselves write letters or even form letter that they can send out personalize a little bit then they will start to know they will start to realize it will become more expert in  telling, who is actually  a good lead because, they are the one who met the person and they don't know if the person gives the response or doesn't so they have a way of following up and knowing what the response is they will become more experienced in evaluating who is actually a good lead or not because, they don't know they just meet the person seems very nice they get the name they turn it in and they don't know what they are going to do with that address of course , that's what Sachinandan Maharaj said that you should you know send out a mail and somehow follow that name up quick before that person forgets his impression with the saṅkīrtan Devotee.  And then if you get a response then it will be a shifted name.  just a raw name may not. 

 

Devotee:-not clear we have a set of books would like to show and they were come and show set of books 

 

Guru Mahārāja :  Are they saṅkīrtan leads

 

Devotee:-no these were people like who were actually stopping in the street and not clear

 

Guru Mahārāja : usually the saṅkīrtan devotees will make temples are given special cards which are match up with the database when they meet a really good purpose and they get the name and address, may fill up a card and those are the names that are turned in and there are even those names and they are as good as we see them on streets may be some other people when they follow they doesn't have a same effect but whatever doesn't ,we need to perfect those names. Because there saṅkīrtan Devotees, they meet millions and millions of people every year so there are lot of important contacts but how do I actually spit from different contacts to follow up and cultivate.  So that interesting point you said. 

 

Devotee: - not so clear

 

Guru Mahārāja : that was the point we get too many names and there is too much to deal with so from where /How do we sift out the good ones, the golden ones.  Ones which are worth investing the extra time in what happened to depend on that the doc never came up. 

 

Devotee:-not clear 

 

Guru Mahārāja : Any realization any one got what do you think about the importance of congregational development in relation to spreading of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness you think it has something part to play. 

 

Devotee:-not clear 

 

Guru Mahārāja :  That’s why at least that in some ways that just even having a dedicated congregational member himself, who go on doing the preaching or having you know basic you know, even if one person just starts take some interest in it and then encourage the congregational members a lot of times they themselves are some of the best preachers for this field. One even, sometimes they just need a little go ahead ,a little encouragement. The temple president of Denver Anuttama Prabhu he mentioned how they were trying to get people to sponsor Sunday feast program but they only had about 5 sponsors or something and one new person moved into town and came there and then he saw that there weren't so many sponsors so he said could I do a program to try to enroll people to sponsor the Sunday feast, I said Yes,so that time it was like 200 dollars we will make it to 100 because, it's easier to get people to  sponsor 100, so we made it 108. So than that congregational member after a week called back he said he went to the phone book and just started calling up all Indians. He was an Indian and he already got that time, it was like January 1st they already got up to March booked and he wanted to get some more names to call or first he got the temple names and then he ran out of those and he said the whole year 52 weeks that is 5000 dollars is all booked for already just by in about 2 to 3 weeks just by one congregational member fired up and now he said he wants to start make Varsha sevak Varsha Pooja. They pay 1 dollar a day for temple worship to maintain the temple Pooja and so that had persons fired up to sign people like that's what they are doing in Bangalore. They have concentrating on the big donor  for temple construction and than they started Sudama Seva you wanna explain about that ,what Sudama Seva is. 

 

 

devotee: Probably some of you might have heard about big temple complex build in Bangalore and off course lot of money has to come from donors so we have among life members one type of scheme called Pāṇḍava Sena, just like Pāṇḍavas did service in the big opulent way to Kṛṣṇa and then we also wanted to have common people involve them also.  We have another category called Sudama Seva.  For this Sudama Seva they gave a pledge to give 1 rs per day for the next 5 years.  They come and pay every month like that so it comes to around 30 rs per month and we have a system of reminding them that after 25 days they get a post card which says you have to come and pay so and so.  And every day we get about 20 cheques of 30 rs and we have so many people coming up in to the temple and saying ohh my last day is getting over please take this money and please renew my Sudama Seva and right now on a Janmasthami evening we enrolled this Sudama Seva was inaugurated by the former chief minister of Karnataka and on the Janmashtami evening we enrolled about 800 Sudama Sevas in one evening and the next few months or so right now we have around 2000 Sudama Sevas and it is also growing and we are also planning to have some putting some special efforts to increase the number of Sudama Seva. Actually one of the ideas we have is that we have many life members. About 8 teams of life members are preachers because we need to generate a lot of money.  So we are planning to leave one team should go on increase the number of Sudama Sevaks we have consider that if a life member becomes a Sudama sevak it's a failure because a life member must become a Pāṇḍava Sena, but then we wanted every life member to make all these employees as Sudama Sevak so like that getting as many people. 

 

Guru Mahārāja :73000 if you put that I can see the dollars

 

devotee :-2015 dollars

 

Guru Mahārāja :2000 like hear 30000 dollars could help up

 

devotees:-not clear

 

Guru Mahārāja:  73000 perhaps. So Sudama Seva and Pāṇḍava seva , so just need something has to you know, we have to decide there is always so many constraints and this is a long term program.  And 10 years from now, you're gonna say why didn't you do it 10 years ago . So  this is not the kind of thing  you can drop everything as just do it because you have regular casual problems, but the type of thing you have to start doing. Or part time or somebody full time or several people part time.  But something has to start, although it's important because for overall Preaching for the sentential coming up for book distribution for making Devotees.  In Māyāpur most devotees come from Nāmahaṭṭa and in Germany ultimately we want people to accept ISKCON.  Others say it's a cult or small religious group.  As a religion or a way of spiritual development.  which is acceptable in society, That will help us to make more devotees and the public has a  good image.  This is possible the broader we have a congregation. So they went out to print this quotation.  And don't know if they came back but Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur he gives a very dynamic prediction about Nāmahaṭṭa how this will be the most important form of preaching in the future. And Bhakti Siddhanta Ṭhākur he gave his disciples a final order before he left and then he also gave the instruction to develop Māyāpur to Navadvīpa Parikrama then he also said to publish books, distribute books and establish Nāmahaṭṭa.  So because we distribute books, the next step is to have the people read the books and become devotees so it's kind of in one way to distribute books and next thing you do is to want them to be members of a congregation.  So thank you very much for your attention and inputs.  Hare Kṛṣṇa.   Jayapatākā svāmī Mahārāja ki jai

 

Transcribed By: Dipapriya Vrajeshvari DD  On: 30-Sep-2020

 

Proofreading By: Amrita Padma Devi Dasi On 01/10/2020

 

Proofreading By: Revathi Senthilkumar on 4/12/2020.