19921127 Caitanya-caritamrita Ādi-līlā 1.58-60

The following is the class given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on November 27^th 1992. The class begins with a reading from the Chaitanya Charitamritha Ādi Līlā 1^st chapter verse 58 to 60.

 

vande 'ham sri-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaisnavams ca

sri-rupam sagrajatam saha-gana-raghunathanvitam tam sa-jivam

sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam krsna-caitanya-devam

sri-radha-krsna-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja:

 

Purport (CC1.1.58):

 

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Kṛṣṇa sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Kṛṣṇa, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami: The first part of this verse is that one cannot visibly experience the presence of the Super soul. Sometimes people say, “Show me God!” So many things that we cannot see with our eyes. We can’t see radio waves, we hear them. We can’t see atoms and molecules. Scientists tell us that they are there. Even with the naked eyes, there are many stars and planets in the sky, they cannot be seen, we have to use some telescope to see them. But they are there. So, with these material eyes there are many things we can’t see. And Kṛṣṇa is not visible, Super soul is not visible with ordinary eyes. One has to see the Lord with a divine vision. But the Super soul is giving us guidance from within. In the beginning we also need guidance from without so He sends us a spiritual master to instruct us. Instructing spiritual master guides us how we can advance by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.  

 

So, for the devotee may see that Kṛṣṇa has come to instruct us in the form of spiritual master. Not that the spiritual master is actually an incarnation of God or something, he is also a living entity. But Kṛṣṇa through the via media of His pure devotee is giving blessings to the souls, the fallen souls.

 

So therefore, the devotees offer respects to the Guru like they would offer respect to Kṛṣṇa. His svarūpa is a non-different representation of Kṛṣṇa, with the purpose of giving the devotee mercy. There is a quote here from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.26.26)

 

tato duḥsaṅgam utsṛjya

satsu sajjeta buddhimān

santa evāsya chindanti

mano-vyāsaṅgam uktibhiḥ

 

Translation:

“One should therefore avoid bad company and associate only with devotees. With their realized instructions, such saints can cut the knot connecting one with activities unfavorable to devotional service.”

 

Purport:

 

This verse, which appears in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.26.26), was spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa to Uddhava in the text known as the Uddhava-gīta. The discussion relates to the story of Purūravā and the heavenly courtesan Urvaśī. When Urvaśī left Purūravā, he was deeply affected by the separation and had to learn to overcome his grief.

 

It is indicated that to learn the transcendental science, it is imperative that one avoid the company of undesirable persons and always seek the company of saints and sages who are able to impart lessons of transcendental knowledge. The potent words of such realized souls penetrate the heart, thereby eradicating all misgivings accumulated through years of undesirable association. For a neophyte devotee there are two kinds of persons whose association is undesirable: (1) gross materialists who constantly engage in sense gratification and (2) unbelievers who do not serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead but serve their senses and their mental whims in terms of their speculative habits. Intelligent persons seeking transcendental realization should very scrupulously avoid their company.

 

Thus, end the Bhaktivedānta Svāmī translation and purport to Text 59.

 

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami: So here some other principles are given. Giving up bad association ‘duḥsaṅgam utsṛjya’

it is very important to advance in spiritual life. And ‘satsu sajjeta’, to associate with the devotees.

 

So, one had to give up bad association and replace that with good association, very important. Bad association which has been explained here will mislead one off of the path of progressive spiritual development, take one back into material conditioned life. It is very dangerous to have bad association.

 

So here there are so many devotees, they are associating together. So, this is recommended. Of course, for work we have to associate with so many people. That doesn’t really mean; it is not a very deep association. Especially here associate means that voluntarily one has to associate. Giving association; opening one’s heart, opening one’s mind, getting into some intimate talk. This is more serious kind of association. So, in an informal way we have to associate with the non-devotees, that is to say who are trying to engage us in so many activities which are against our principles, that is their nature; that is what they are habituated to do.

 

So, it is recommended in the Vedās, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to give up the bad company, associate with devotees.  Duḥsaṅgam utsṛjya, satsu sajjeta buddhimān. Intelligent person, to avoid bad association, take good association. Nobody is so strong that they can be in association and it will not have any affect.

 

Prahlāda Mahārāja said association is like a mirror’s image. We tend to take on the qualities of the people that we are intimately associating with. So, if we associate with more spiritually advanced people, naturally we will take on those qualities of spiritual advancement. If we associate with materialistic people or mental speculators, then one takes on that advancement, that consciousness.

 

Similarly, we are trying to invite people to have a good association. When they associate with the devotees then they start to see things in a proper perspective. This is a very important aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we have the association of advanced devotees, someone those that are very dedicated to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are considered saints. Their instructions can cut the knot of connecting on of activities unfavorable to devotional service. Various places these advices are given.

The next verse, very famous verse:

 

satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido

bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ

taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani

śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati

 

Translation:

 

“The spiritually powerful message of Godhead can be properly discussed only in a society of devotees, and it is greatly pleasing to hear in that association. If one hears from devotees, the way of transcendental experience quickly opens, and gradually one attains firm faith that in due course develops into attraction and devotion.”

 

Purport:

 

This verse appears in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.25.25), where Kapiladeva replies to the questions of His mother, Devahūti, about the process of devotional service. As one advances in devotional activities, the process becomes progressively clearer and more encouraging. Unless one gets this spiritual encouragement by following the instructions of the spiritual master, it is not possible to make advancement. Therefore, one’s development of a taste for executing these instructions is the test of one’s devotional service. Initially, one must develop confidence by hearing the science of devotion from a qualified spiritual master. Then, as he associates with devotees and tries to adopt the means instructed by the spiritual master in his own life, his misgivings and other obstacles are vanquished by his execution of devotional service. Strong attachment for the transcendental service of the Lord develops as he continues listening to the messages of Godhead, and if he steadfastly proceeds in this way, he is certainly elevated to spontaneous love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Thus, end the translation and purport to Text 60 of Ādi-līlā, Chapter 1, Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami: This is a very important point that the spiritually powerful message of Godhead can be properly discussed only in a society of devotees. It is greatly pleasing to be in that association.

 

One day we were having the inauguration of our temple in Guwahati, Assam. And the Chief Guest was the Governor of Assam, Mr. Misra, believe he is still the Governor.

 

So, there was a very big attendance, there were thousands of devotees, at least hundreds, maybe a thousand or two, life members and guests.

 

So, the Governor, he started to speak that, “Actually I am feeling inspired to discuss about spiritual matters in this association. If I was discussing about these matters in a normal political rally that I usually have to go to, I won’t feel encouraged neither will the people stay in the same [Not Clear – 00:12:58]. Here I am feeling enlivened to go on speaking.”

 

He must have spoken for about one hour, forty five minutes. How he had gone to the Himalayas, He met a guru? How he got mantra? How mantra has delivered him? so on, recommending Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he went on and he got really inspired. “Because you people, I can see, you are all spiritual people”, life members everyone, they are very eager to hear.

 

So, this message of Godhead, spiritual matters, they can only be discussed in appropriate association. And in that association, they are very pleasingly discussed. It is very difficult to discuss these matters anywhere and everywhere. And if we discuss, they may be very nice topics, but people will become impatient, because their mind is on some other wavelength.

 

So, having these regular Friday gatherings and other gatherings other days of the week with devotees, discussing to Kṛṣṇa katha, hearing different realizations, and this type of cultivation of our spiritual consciousness is very important. This is very effective. To know what actually is there, one has to get that understanding from the devotees, get into that mood then one can personally experience also. People outside of that sphere, of that circle they are not able to understand what actually is going on. They may be speculating something based on their own limited mundane experience. They have no experience about transcendental bliss, about transcendental ecstasy, about spiritual happiness. So, their every opinion is based on their mundane experience which is not able to enter into this sphere.

 

 If you want to know anything in this world, obviously you have to go to the people who are engaged in that activity, you want to know even some frivolous sport like golf or something you have to learn from the people that play golf. No use learning how to play golf from someone who plays ping-pong or basketball. You want to learn spiritual life, you want to learn business, you go to the people who are expert in business. You want to learn spiritual life, we go then to the people that are spiritually advanced. Sometimes people, they think that they can cheat someone who is spiritually advanced.

 

Just like the man who tried to cheat the blacksmith with low quality steel, remember that example?

 

Once there was man, he was very miserly, business type-minded man. But he was everything he saw was with a profit motive. All his personal dealings even with his own relatives were all based on money. If he could get a good price for his mother then, or cheat his mother, he may also do that. There was no qualms, no reservation. Everything was simply how to get a good buck as they say.

 

So somehow in some of his deals, he got a big quantity of coconut. But he had no proper knife to cut the coconut. His knife, his cutter, chopper had become very dull. So, he took it to one blacksmith and he said, “I need a good chopper.” He looked and he said this one is finished. He had to make a new one.

 

So, he said, “Alright, you make me a good one. I have got some spring steel, high quality carbon steel in my house. I will send that to you. I have a good quantity. You make me one knife. You keep the rest of the steel. That will be your profit for making it.”

 

So, he said, “Alright, good deal send the steel.”

 

Then the man goes back home, but he is having not good steel. He is having ordinary mild steel, mild iron for construction or something that is ordinary. So, he sends that with his son, “You give this to him and tell him to make a good knife.” So, the man sees what is this? This is not good steel, this is ordinary soft steel. This won’t keep the sharpness.

 

So, he made one knife, one chopper, but that was a very worse quality. He gave it to the son, “Give it to your father.” Father saw it is not going to cut a coconut, it can hardly cut bread. So, he came back you know and he was really angry,

 

“What is this useless knife you gave me?

 

Why didn’t you give me a good knife?

 

I send you the steel and everything.”

 

So, he said, “I gave you the correct knife.”

 

“What do you mean correct knife?

 

This knife is lousy, this is no good.” “I gave you the correct knife of someone who tried to cheat a blacksmith by giving him third grade steel calling it first class. For that type of person this is the correct knife.”

How can you cheat a blacksmith with steel? That is his business. He is hammering it every day. He knows what is good, what is bad. That is his field.

 

Sometimes people think that well, I can just put on some bluff and I can impress some devotee or guru. But they can tell if somebody is sincere or if they are actually bluffing or not.

 

Just like the pastime with Haridāsa Ṭhākura and the astrologer.

 

You know that pastime?

 

One time there was a snake charmer who was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and he was playing on his flute and he was singing a song to Lord Kṛṣṇa,

 

How Kṛṣṇa had taken over, had defeated the Kāliya serpent?

 

This is especially recommended for the sarpa-udiyas, for the snake charmers because remembering Kṛṣṇa and Kāliya protects you from snakebite.

 

So, he was singing this bhajan to Kṛṣṇa. While he is doing that, it so happened that Haridāsa Ṭhākura was coming along.

 

Haridāsa Ṭhākura is a great devotee, always chanting the holy names of Kṛṣṇa even though he was not born in a Hindu family, he was always the greatest devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So, when he heard this devotee singing the glories of Kṛṣṇa and Kāliya, he became absorbed and he became very ecstatic. He became filled with love for Kṛṣṇa. So, he started to dance in ecstasy, ‘Haribol! Haribol!

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare!’

[devotees repeats]

So, by chanting and dancing in ecstasy, all the local people, they started seeing this devotee, and they became also filled with devotion and they started to offer their obeisance to Haridāsa Ṭhākura spontaneously. What was happening was next to the snake charmer there was one astrologer, what they have, that parrot and you know the hand charts and everything, it is all set up. He is a brāhmaṇa by birth.

 

So, he said, “What is going on here?

 

This person is not even born in a Hindu family and he is chanting. And everyone is offering him so much respect, falling down to him, offering him the respect. But nobody is offering me respect! I am born in a brāhmaṇa family, why they shouldn’t offer me respect. Whatever he is doing, I can do the same thing. So, let me do this and then people will offer me respect.”

 

So, he jumped up and he tried to imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting ‘Haribol! Haribol!’ and dancing. So, this astrologer brāhmaṇa, he tried to imitate ‘Haribol! Haribol!’ (laughter) jumping.  Haridāsa Ṭhākura is dancing in great ecstasy. This one, he is… (laughter), he is putting on a big show you know.

 

So, the snake charmer, he was a very matured devotee, he could actually make out this guy is a complete bogus. Haridāsa Ṭhākura is actually in ecstasy. Few common people they couldn’t figure it out. They didn’t know anything much about this thing, they also bowed down.

 

Haridāsa Ṭhākura was going on, he wasn’t aware what is going on. He was in complete samādhi. Then that snake charmer, he fell, on the ground and started shaking ‘Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa!’ putting on a whole show as if he was in trance. After all that, the snake charmer he got up, people were looking at this, “Oh! What great devotion he has got.”

 

He said, “This person is a great aparādhi, he is a great offender. Haridāsa Ṭhākura is a true devotee. He is imitating him; it is very offensive. He does not feel anything in his heart. He just wants you to offer him respect.

 

And Haridāsa Ṭhākura is actually only thinking about Kṛṣṇa, he doesn’t even know if people are offering him respect or not, he could care less.  He is a true devotee, worthy of respect. This person is cheating you!”

 

“How do you know he is cheating?”

 

“You watch!

 

If he is in ecstasy or not, you will see in one second!” Pow! He gave him one good kick in the tail, as soon as he gave kick all the so-called ecstasies were over. “Oooh!” (laughter) Then everybody saw that this is a bogus guy, just cheating.

 

So now what do you think you should do to this kind of people, he is committing great offence to the pure devotee. People picked up sticks and that brāhmaṇa had to run off, people were chasing him down the street.

 

So, devotee can actually tell who is really a devotee or not. So, we should just go in a simple mind before a devotee. Even though we may be very fallen or we may be very unqualified, but Lord Caitanya is patita-pāvana, He delivers the most fallen and the most unqualified. If we have a sincere desire to get ourselves purified then Kṛṣṇa and Gaurāṅga and guru, they can all help us, that is their desire. They are more anxious that we come back than we are to go back. If we take one step to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa takes ten steps to us.

Or sometimes this association is very difficult to say, sometime we think that this is good association. You find that there is someone, he is always criticizing everyone else, those people are no good, that one’s not good, this one is no good you know. It seems that he must be very strict person, he must be very good because he is saying everyone else is no good, he must be very good. He is saying everyone is bad.

So that is one technique of getting people, alienate from everyone else and you get people to do what you want. There is like the story of the man who was yelling ‘Thief! Thief!’

You know that example?

It is a very ancient story. That in one village there was always theft going on. By and by every few days there was some dacoits and people’s houses were being robbed by some thief. So, when the house is being robbed and all the people, naturally they start shouting out, “Chor! Chor! Thief! Thief! Thief!” What do they say in Tamil for thief?

Devotee: Thirudan

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Thirudan? Taking the wealth? Thirudan? Coincidence.

 

‘Thirudan! Thirudan!’ (laughter).

 

They were all shouting ‘Thief! Thief!’  So, people were actually went out of their house and shouting also Thief! Thief! So, like this there was a big hue and cry, everyone shouting thief! But they never caught the thief.

 

So, an old man in the village who was very wise, he told to make a study, who’s at the different thefts. Each one made a list, A,B,C, D but always there was one person who was in every theft, even if his house was in the other side. He is always their shouting thief with everybody else. He said I doubt this man, why he is always at the theft? He may be that thief.

 

So, he told the village chowkidar, “You check out his house, see what he does at night. You just hide and watch his house, see if there is anything unusual, what he does next time when there is a theft.” 

So, he sees that after about 1o’clock in the morning, he comes out with one bamboo ladder and he goes out.

 

So that chowkidar is following. He carries the bamboo ladder and goes over to somebody else’s house on the other part of the village, puts it by the side of the wall, climbs over the wall, goes in the house. Then in a few minutes he sees the guy running off with a box of some valuables and people in the house they started crying out you know ‘Thirudan! Thirudan! Thirudan! Thief, Thief, Chor!’ So, they started shouting out Thief! Thief! And that thief ran into the forest, into the jungle. Within about few minutes he came back and by that time people are gathering and he is also yelling Thief! Thief! Thief! Thief!

 

And you know chowkidar sees, wow you know, this is what unique technique (laughter) And then they saw him standing there in the shadow and then the thief said, “Oh! He must be the thief!”

 

Everybody saw him, “What are you doing there, you know?”

 

started beating him, “He must be the thief! Thief, thief!”

 

So, the real thief is calling the chowkidar, nothing to do with it, they started calling him the thief, everybody started beating the chowkidar, thumping him, “Tell us what were you doing?” So, the old wise man in the village, he came and said, “Don’t beat, he is not the thief. You come and tell me what happened.”

 

So, he heard everything so he said, “Alright listen!  Let us go the forest and find the jewels, find the goods.”

 

Then the thief said, “No, no don’t go there. It is very bad. You will get some snakes, tigers, let’s go in the morning we can go. Not now. Now it is dangerous in the night, we should not go. Maybe the mosquitos, anything, something, (laughter) we don’t know.”

Now the others said, “No, let’s go, let’s go now and find it. See if there are any valuables are there.”

 

So, they went where the chowkidar saw him running into the forest and there they found where all the treasure was kept. So, then he told the whole story. This person came from his house, this is his bamboo ladder. Chowkidar saw him bring the treasure here. This guy is the pucca thief, he is really doing this. So as soon as he was exposed, the man started, the thief started running. And all the group of men started running after him ‘Thief! Thief! Thief!’

 

So, the actual thief was running in front and he is also pointing in front ‘Thief! Thief! Thief! That’s the thief!’ So, the ordinary people they get confused (laughter) Where is the thief you know? The thief himself is saying ‘Thief! Thief! Maybe he is looking ahead. Nobody…So this was his regular technique, he is always calling the other people thief!

 

So, there are people like that. They are doing actually wrong things. But to divert the attention from them, they are saying look at the others they are all thieves! So, the people don’t look their side, they are looking everywhere, seems like they are very righteous people because they are pointing out the defects of others. We actually don’t know that the one culprit is that very person. That’s why we have to be careful if we have to take association from people who are fault finders.

 

Many times, we find that there are people always finding faults with everyone else, they are coming up with their own faults. So, one of the qualities of a devotee is nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām, not envious. They respect the other people. They are not envious.  They are not overly, unnecessarily critical.

 

In this world, there are already some defects. Nobody can be hundred percent perfect. So, unless something is really major obstacle, major problem we don’t bother to pick out all the defects. That simply disturbs the mind. Some superficial material characteristic does not affect the devotion of some devotee. There is always personality traits or some differences of complexion or so on. So, these superficial things are not important when it comes to spiritual life. But the fault finders, they pick out even little things. This way it bewilders the mind. So, we need to avoid the bad association.

 

Associate with the good devotees. Hear the proper instructions and we can advance very nicely.

 

So, to do this Lord Caitanya never said you have to leave household life. Whether you are householder, whether you are unmarried, whatever you may be, you just follow these principles; they are the same for everyone, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, having good association, hearing the proper instructions, trying to apply these in one’s life. In this way what happens is that gradually we attain a taste in knowledge that in due course develops into an attraction, devotion. The spiritual life has to be experienced. When we experience it then of course, it is very difficult for anyone who is bewildered, so this experience we get by proper association with devotees, by hearing the message from the devotees. We hear the so-called devotional messages or Hari-katha from a non-devotee, this has a reverse effect.

 

There is a verse in the Vedās,

 

Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇa-pūta-hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam sarpocchiṣṭaṁ yathā payaḥ.

 

To listen to Hari-katha, glories of devotee, from a non-devotee, from a non-vaiṣṇava is not recommened, it is forbidden.

 

Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇa-pūta-hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam, why?

 

Because sarpocchiṣṭaṁ yathā payaḥ, just like when the snake touches the milk, whole mill becomes poisoned. Even one drop of poison in the milk will ruin the whole milk. Doesn’t mean you have to have a whole glass of venom, if you have one drop it is enough. So, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we need to hear from Kṛṣṇa devotees. Someone maybe very learned paṇḍita, but if he is not devotee, they may have twisted things and even though someone maybe hearing Gītā, maybe hearing Bhāgavatam, in the end they don’t become devotee because they are hearing from non-devotees, they always get some other idea. They think I am God, or something else and they don’t get that actual experience which is predicted here. They don’t develop that spontaneous attraction too devotion. So, what happens is they may be more and more attracted to the material things. 

 

Material things are like, little children you give them some toy to playwood with so they don’t create any nuisance. But eventually you want them to mature and develop attraction for doing something productive in life, not just to play all life with the toys.

 

Human beings are meant to develop and to fully understand and engage in our eternal activities with Kṛṣṇa. But until that attraction is developed, then Durga is giving us, Māyādevī is giving us so many toys to play with.

 

So, we need to graduate from that pre-school, nursery level, and come out to the transcendental platform. We see what is the value of this material world? and we see what is the actual spiritual experience? what is the value of eternal life?

 

We have to work, we have to do activities that help the body to survive but as far as our actual goal in life, we should be very focused on we want to go back to Godhead, which is real, which is eternal. Just playing with the new toys that come up is of no eternal benefit.

 

Thank you very much for taking to this process which is recommended by all the śāstras, all be fully successful in showing this path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the blessings of

Gaura-Nitāi, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

 

Nitāi-gaura premānande hari hari bol!

 

Devotee: [Not Clear – 00:38:15] you a question, okay, you are telling Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but read somewhere that it is māta-pita-guru-devam, that means first mother, then father, then guru and then the God. Actually that is not in the scriptures what it says, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, through Kṛṣṇa guru comes, then only father, mother. Father, mother are only temporary relation just because we have got this body. But our real father is Kṛṣṇa. So?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Ah, see everything has its own interpretation. Who is the first person that you meet in life in this birth?

 

Devotee: Mother.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Then next person?

 

Devotee: Father.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Then? But you cannot avoid that. You are going to meet your mother first, because you are coming only from the mother, you are going to meet her. Mother will introduce you to the father.

 

Devotee: No what you were telling…

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Try getting that interpretation? We are interpreting, first your mother and father are your natural guru, but they will lead you to real guru, and by the mercy of guru, you will get to Kṛṣṇa.

 

Devotee: So, if you give devotional service to mother…

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: They are saying that you give all the devotion to mother and father…

 

Devotee: That is what…

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: But then where does the guru and deva come?

 

Devotee: What they say it is not required. If you serve the father, mother, it is enough. Then God will bless you…

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Then they are not following, there are four factors there, they are only taking the first two (laughter). We are not saying neglect your mother and father, follow the mother and father, but the point is that also, we are not telling people not to serve their parents.

 

In fact, it is very much in the Vaiṣṇava tradition, always the parents are, all the elders are respected very much, but not to the exclusion of guru or Kṛṣṇa. And if parents are completely against, then even a devotee, will like take more way.

 

Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he was going back to the spiritual world. That time, the Viṣṇudūtās came to take him in a spiritual vimāna. That time he was remembering what about my mother? If it wasn’t for my mother Sunīti, then how is it that I would be here in this way, I won’t be going back to the spiritual world without the blessing of my mother. She was the one who told me to look for God. So, she should, I won’t leave without her. So, they pointed out, already mother was going ahead. She is already in a previous vimāna, she is your śikṣā guru, so she has already gone ahead. So, then he said alright, then we can go.

 

Even when Prahlāda was tortured by his father, and when Nṛsiṁha asked what blessing you want, first thing he did is pray, “please forgive my father”.

 

 So people get their own idea. Devotees are never against. But sometimes what happens is that, say the father told Prahlāda to give up worshipping Kṛṣṇa, he said, “I can’t do that”. If that person is not acting in that moment as a proper parent, that is the point when the devotee will diverge. We won’t say blindly follow, go against Kṛṣṇa, even if the parents said. Apart from that we are always well-wishers of the parents.

 

Actually Prahlāda, he always said good things to his father, but father was a demon, he couldn’t accept.

 

Father said, “I am the Almighty power, why you don’t worship me, why do you worship Viṣṇu?

 

He says “Where do you get the power to not worship me?”

 

He said, “I get the power from where you get your power. You are not independent. You get the power from Viṣṇu also. Whatever power I have, whatever power anybody has, it all comes from Viṣṇu, it all comes from God.”

 

And then he became angry, “What is this you are speaking such insolent things against me, this is a unique case?” He was on his supreme ego.  In spite of that, even though he tried to kill Prahlāda in so many ways, Prahlāda begged please forgive him, whatever offence he made.

 

So, the devotees are the perfect children, perfect friend, everything is perfect. Only in the very rare, extreme circumstances you find that there is a parting of ways. Otherwise, it is not that we are against the parents. Mother, father are the natural gurus, they should guide one to reach the real śikṣā guru and dīkṣā guru. And they are very happy when they see that their son is reaching Kṛṣṇa. If the son goes to Kṛṣṇa the parents automatically go.

 

I know one disciple he said, “Actually I may never make it back to Godhead. You please  give initiation to my son. If he can go back then I know that my ticket is booked!” (laughter).

 

Devotee: Guru Mahārāja, one more question related to this. Most of the parents they are not fortunate to get in touch with the devotees, pure devotees and disciplic succession. So, they don’t know the real importance of worshipping only Kṛṣṇa, they have other demigod worship, especially in most of the families. So is it worthwhile when we go back to India, we tell them Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, so you can devote the whole time in Kṛṣṇa rather than meditating other demigods because they are all worshipping Kṛṣṇa. Is it the right thing to explain to them to make them understand or they also get ego problem, why suddenly is he preaching me or something? So, I want to take the advice whether we can do something?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: You can always preach; the question is the technique.

 

Prahlāda was a small child, he didn’t have any sophistication. He wasn’t thinking of preaching according to time, place or circumstance very so much. His father asked a question, he just told the truth. This is all you can expect from a five-year-old, they are very simple, very direct. When you are preaching to people you have to see according to their situation. If they are very faithless or if they are very inimical then it is better to try to tell them to anyway you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

 

See if they chant automatically, they become more receptive to all these things. They need also to get some spiritual experience. They are only having mundane experience. So, for them it is all very theoretical.  But when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa then they will get some spiritual experience, then it will be easier for them to comprehend.

 

So, Lord Caitanya, He recommended we get everyone to chant, take some Kṛṣṇa prasāda, get them to read the Bhagavad-gītā, worship. So then, you can try to preach but you have to see how best to tackle each individual. Some people you can directly preach to them if you have such a relationship, some people, especially some older person, they may not immediately accept. So, you may use some technique.

 

Lord Caitanya would often use the technique of asking questions. He would know the answer but He would just ask the question knowing that the other person didn’t know the actual answer. So, by asking question the other people, then, they couldn’t give the good answer. So, they give up, so what is the answer, you know better. Then Lord Caitanya tells them the answer. Since they asked for it, so then He had to open it, so many techniques to preach. Going very humbly, principle like come in like a needle, go out like a flower.

 

Devotee: What to do now, in a place like Muscat, we are able to come every day for maṅgala-ārati, sandhya-ārati, meet the devotees. The message every day we are getting and it is getting firm day by day. Whereas if you right in Bombay, my parents are in Chembur, I tell them go to Juhu, go for maṅgala-ārati, from Juhu to Chembur, it is a very far distance.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Where is the other center now in Bombay? Bandra or something? So far?

 

Devotee: Bayendara.

My house is very much far.

 

Devotee: Because that can be possible only when we go back and do it in the house every day. Then we can tell.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja:  Many are devotees, they get their parents to chant, they explain to them.

 

Devotee: Yeah, we should be there with them, like Venugopāl Prabhu has started here. We need to be at Chembur, Dadar, one-one center is there then it will be better.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: You can have one in your house. Nāmahatta!

 

Devotee: The best thing is that you take them to Bangalore… (laughter)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: Why not! We will have a whole unit there! (laughter)

 

Devotee: Mahārāja, Muslims pray to Allah, and Christians have got this Christ. For Hindus, we have so many Gods, supposed to be demigods but the message is not very clear, that is why the confusion is there, the problem which he is facing now. Why is the confusion amongst the Hindus?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī Mahārāja: That’s explained also in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto.

 

Nārada Muni was impatient, what is the proper word, he was not satisfied, he was chastising directly his disciple Vyāsadeva.

 

Vyāsadeva was not feeling satisfied after writing all the Vedās.

 

Nārada Muni said because you have given so much knowledge, now ordinary people, they are not able to actually understand what is the conclusion? They get confused. It is so vast that they get confused. So, you should give one book that gives the conclusion.

 

What is the ultimate purpose of all this in all the Vedās?

 

But because you told so many other things, people are not able to isolate that truth from the other relative truths. So, you give one book where you don’t tell anything but the Absolute Truth, completely to the point. Then you will be happy.

 

So, this is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, without compromise, just telling about Absolute Truth. But in the Vedās, people they want to know if I want to get a good husband what should I do? So, they tell, okay, you can do, you can worship Śiva, you want good wife, worship Umā, so many things. So, they go on giving like this, according to the question they are giving the answers, so it is very vast. But it doesn’t give what is the ultimate prayojana, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

 

So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam especially gives us that conclusion. But actually, all the Vedās say the same thing, but it is mixed up with so many other things. You go in Śiva Purāṇa, you go in Skanda Purāṇa, you go in any other Purāṇa, you also find some references to Kṛṣṇa bhakti, to Viṣṇu worship and everyone. But it will be mixed up with other, different angles and points of vision.

 

So that is why, especially for the devotees we mainly concentrate on Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that is our main texts. Other things we use them as reference knowing that these are written from different angles of vision. So, in one sense, the Vedās are so vast. But that is the downside of them. If you give someone too much information, they can misuse it, they get confused. The point is that so much information is there that it is the most complete of all the spiritual or religious texts in the world.

 

Like for instance, nowadays in the West, I don’t know how much its conscious over here, but there is a very big undercurrent of concern about Unidentified Flying Objects. For some reason, I don’t know, it is not much publicized in India, maybe they don’t fly in India (laughter), but in the West, maybe people just think they are Devās and they don’t bother? I don’t know! (laughter)

 

But in the West, this is a very big problem that people talk about. They say that they are getting abducted! They say that they come in the night and take them away, that they are impregnating the women, before the child is born, taking out the embryo, coming back. Some people have said that they are creating a crossbreed between some residents of other planet and earth. Maybe they got AIDS there or some of their own type of disease and they want to inter breed.

 

Like we bring from the West, the whole Sweden cow to the Indian cow to breed. There is so much speculation, they don’t know anything. So, they go to the Government. Government said no, no these things don’t exist. People don’t believe the government that they don’t exist. So many people I have seen say it doesn’t exist. So if you go into the Bible, you don’t find much reference about other planets, you go in the Koran, I don’t know what they have, I can’t say, in this country we shouldn’t make any comment .

 

So, but you go into the, through the Vedās, there is so much reference to other planets. In Mahābhārata, there is visitation from many other planets. The Gandharvās came and they had a fight with the Pāṇḍavas. Some favorable visits are there by the Devās, some unfavorable wars are going on. It also mentions about Star Wars.

 

Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavatam, it mentions Salva? Salva, he got from some other planet, from the asurās, he got some special plane which was circular in shape, which could move any direction, this way, that way, disappear, come back, which is exactly the description that they give for the flying saucers. So, this is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam, tenth canto.

 

So, our Sadāputa Prabhu, who is Richard Thompson, PhD from Cornell University and everything, Harvard, all this, so he is giving seminars now from the Vedās on this theme, UFOs, what the Vedās speak. So, we are getting a full house, hundreds of all very educated people because they don’t know anything. Government won’t tell anything, but these things that people are seeing, they are getting experience so they want to know what does it say. So, the Vedās have so much information, that there is other planets, there is life on other planets.

 

Eighteen kinds of aircrafts are mentioned in the Vedās. Some were propelled by mechanical means, propelled by energy, by light waves, by psychic means, like that so many details are there. So, the thing is now the scientific people in the West, they can’t avoid the Vedās. Vedās are so complete, they describe so many things, one has any question, you end up going to the Vedās. Answers are there. They are not looking it. In India, the British have programmed us. We think that the Vedās are all mythology. So they are not looking this side. These are historical visitations, historical things that people have seen. We are saying the same thing now. Nobody can explain it, they are given in Sanskrit. Five thousand, ten thousand, one million years ago the same thing was seen. We are seeing that now. What does that mean? So, it must be true.

 

So, like that lot of people now, they are turning to the Vedās for various reasons. Regarding diet, Vedās say best diet is sāttvik food. All the health nutritionists, they are saying yes fruits, vegetables, grains are very good. Control your fat intake and all that, meat actually is not good for you.

 

Now American government used to say you have to have meat as one of the necessities of life. They have changed that few years ago. Now they say it is optional. And it should be reduced. Main thing you need is fruits, vegetable, grains and milk products. Meat is optional. So gradually people are changing. But whatever is given in the Vedās, now people are coming to that point of view. Reincarnation there is lot of evidence. But in many other cultures they don’t have any much information. So, the upside is that because we have so much information, we are able to provide lot of information to people, give them the answers that they want.

 

So now in the West people are more scientifically inclined. They want more to the point answers. They tend to go to other cultures and they just tell you it is a mystery, we don’t know, on almost everything. So, it is not very satisfying. So, they turn to science and science does not also have the answer. It is very, crawling forward. Seems you know, that we made lot of advancement, we see what is the whole universe in the Vedās.

 

Even they don’t know what is in the ocean fully. So many factors they don’t know, what life is? So, for preaching also the Vedās are very good. So much information. But the bad side is it is said, some people they get confused. They just look at just one side, one point and they think that oh no! That is why we need a guru.

 

Just the Vedās alone without a guru is very difficult to understand. We need a bonafide guru. Should be a Vaiṣṇava, should come in a disciplic succession. In the Padma Purāṇa it is said there are four disciplic successions. Should be in one of those successions, otherwise you won’t understand what the Vedas mean. Well, Kṛṣṇa appeared here as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to combine all these four into one. It is also predicted in Padma Purāṇa, that all these four will be combined.

 

 

Transcribed By: Ādigopi Rādhārāṇī DD

Transcribed on: 15-Sep-2020

 

Proof Reading BY: Amrita Padma Devi Dasi

On 22/09/2020