19921113 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.3.32

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Nov 13 1992 in Brisbane, Australia. The class begins with a reading from Śrīmad Bhāgavatam first canto chapter 3 verse 32.

Purport (abruptly starts): As the gross cosmic manifestation is conceived as the gigantic body of the Lord, so also there is the conception of His subtle form, which is simply realized without being seen, heard or manifested. But in fact all these gross or subtle conceptions of the body are in relation with the living beings. The living being has his spiritual form beyond this gross material or subtle psychic existence. The gross body and psychic functions cease to act as soon as the living being leaves the visible gross body. In fact, we say that the living being has gone away because he is unseen and unheard. Even when the gross body is not acting when the living being is in sound sleep, we know that he is within the body by his breathing. So, the living being's passing away from the body does not mean that there is no existence of the living soul. It is there, otherwise how can he repeat his births again and again?

The conclusion is that the Lord is eternally existent in His transcendental form, which is neither gross nor subtle like that of the living being; His body is never to be compared to the gross and subtle bodies of the living being. All such conceptions of God's body are imaginary. The living being has his eternal spiritual form, which is conditioned only by his material contamination.

Thus, end the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation purport text 32, Chapter 3, Canto 1 Out of Śrīmad Bhagavatam in a matter of Kṛṣṇa is the source of all incarnations.

Jayapatākā Swami: Just as the Bhagavad-gītā has mentioned that there is three levels of ātman. Body, mind and spirit. Body is the gross conception of form.

Mental, psychic or astro existence of subtle conception but soul is beyond both gross and subtle conceptions. The living being has his form beyond the subtlety otherwise he cannot have material birth. Self-realization means to realize that we are different from the gross and subtle bodies. So as long as you identify with either of this body there is some obstacle in the path of self-realization.

Brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava is someone who is firmly established in the Concept of aham brahmāsmi I am spirit. Vaiṣṇava further develops as jīvera svarūpa hoi nityera kṛṣṇa dāsa that my eternal identity my real identity that I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is progression because the spirit, what does the spirit do?

The spirit serves Kṛṣṇa that is the nature of spirit. That's svadharma of eternal spirit soul. Practically speaking, if we use the body and if we use the mind in service of Kṛṣṇa. Then actually we are not identifying with the body and mind.

One uses his automobile to drive, doesn't mean he thinks himself as automobile. Sometimes people do identify with their car. You see, sometimes like teenagers or young people. They spend a lot of time in decorating their car, fix it up and driving around. They really identify themselves with their car. They ever smash their car they would not use them.

I see even in Bangladesh people have rickshaw, which they spend a lot of effort painting up, putting a lot of plastic flowers all over, very proud of their rickshaw. And in one kind of sense, they are identifying as my car, my rickshaw, my car, my house.

And they are working even more then some devotion they have for particular thing. Like a hobby for them. They put a lot of energy into it.  In devotional service we understand that this body is meant to be used in service of Kṛṣṇa. We should devote a lot of time unnecessarily pampering the body, preoccupied with bodily conception. Preoccupied with bodily conception. In the Bhāgavatam it clearly states we should be worried about healthy body and engage in the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. We shouldn't neglect our health but apart from that we shouldn't be spending so much time with the body.

This is kind of acronyms in some levels of life difficulty for me as a sanyasi to understand. Sometimes family people complain how they are not having so much family affection or family activities, family centered activities, family sentiments that's why I took sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda gave me mercy. Because theoretically I was thought that gṛhasthas they would be happy by engaging into devotional service together. That would be serving Guru and Kṛṣṇa together. They would be satisfying, but it seems many times that's not enough, lot of efforts had to be put in. I can understand children they require lot of family attention.

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura he would give 2 hrs a day one hour was not preaching to his family. The rest of the time he was engaged in preaching. All of his children and wife was helping him. Everyone was helping. They enjoyed helping their father or husband engaging in Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities.

Probably that's why we can understand why Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura when he was in his house he saw the spiritual world. He saw Kṛṣṇa, he saw Rādhārāṇī. He saw entire Goloka Vṛndāvana manifested in his spiritual house. But why there is lot of gṛhasthas in this world but do not see spiritual world manifested in their house? They could look to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura why he was able; his wife was able to see the spiritual world in their house they were looking for Kṛṣṇa. They were looking to please Kṛṣṇa. That was their biggest happiness was to serve Kṛṣṇa together.

We can see that this body, psychic spiritual identification, if we can do properly that we are the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter whether we are gṛhastha or brahmacārī  or vānaprastha or sannyāsī. If we are not able to identify like that if we have many other unnecessary or superficial demands of the body and mental level then what's going to happen is we are going to be distracted from the real purpose of life, which is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But sometimes someone knows that actually I am not really surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I am not really giving, everything to Kṛṣṇa.  in my heart I am cheating Kṛṣṇa, I am stealing all that I have I am trying to enjoy something. Then what happens is we start accusing other people. You are trying to enjoy, you are trying to enjoy, that person is enjoying. Nobody is pure because in our heart we are thief.

That's like the story of the thief who cried thief, you know that example? Once in a village in India, there was many thefts going on. Every time there was a theft in somebody’s house and naturally people start crying out thief!! Thief thief!! (loud) chor chor they called and all the villagers would come out and say theif theif. They would say thief, they were all looking around for thief. Thief they could never find thief.

This is going on every few days, every week. Another theft and they as soon as he sees some thief is stealing he screams out thief and the thief runs away. It attracts everyone thief thief. All people come from their houses and all yelling thief thief. They are looking for the thief. They would never find the thief.

So, one very intelligent elder of the village said let's see who’s at all these thefts. And made a list house A, B, C, D. One person is always at every theft. So, he tells the night guard of the village you watch his house at night and just see what happens, what this guy expected.

So, he did it staked house towards. After about a week or so the man came out of the house at 2 in the morning with a ladder, bamboo ladder.  He went over to somebody else house. A man was following him. He put the ladder on the wall, climbed over the wall, went in and after a little while he was running out of the house. House holder is crying out thief, thief, thief. And thief went into the forest with big box of jewels and things. All kind of people start coming and what happened. thief thief thief. That guy came back. He also is joining them “Thief! thief! thief! "

And the thief went into the forest with a big box of jewels and things. All kinds of people started coming in.

"What happened?"

"Thief, thief, thief thief "

And that guy came back. He also joined them "Thief! thief thief!"

Looking around he is yelling, everybody is yelling "thief". The actual thief you know, is there yelling "Thief thief!   Where is the thief? We have to get this thief. This is too much. "

He was the one who was the most vocal you know, against thieves, you know. "Intolerable these thieves. "

In fact, then the chowkidar who was there following him, they came across him and said" This must be the thief. What’s he doing here lurking in the shadow? "

And then they started roughly -" What are you doing here now?" you know, somebody will punch him, what a khamaab. khamaab will give the thief hard you know and then the village elder came and " Aaa...don't beat him, he is not the thief. "

"You come in. Tell me what happened. "

I said " This is the actual thing.  This guy came out with a ladder and all things, put the jewels in the forest." He said "Okay"

The night guard, he said, he was watching. He said actually the thief went to the forest. The treasure must, the jewels must be in the forest. Let's go and look for the jewels."

The actual thief, he said, " No no no no..we shouldn't go to the forest. The forest is very dangerous and some insects might be there like mosquitoes, snakes and tigers so many things that could...I think we should wait for the morning and then we go. Now it’s very dangerous in the night going into the dark forest. I think we shouldn't be going there."

"No no. Let's go. We are all gonna go now."

So, then they all, the elder took all of them and then they found the treasure.  So, then they said "This guy, he was the one who went undercover. That's his matter. He went and he did the whole thing" . The whole story and then the people - " ohh you are a rogue, you know!". They all went to jump at him and he started running way. So, then few people running after him and then they are saying "THIEF THIEF “. so, the thief he is running ahead he is pointing at a distance, he is still yelling out 'Thief! Thief ‘. So, the ordinary people are watching and they hear ' Thief! thief' and then they see one guy is running ahead saying 'Thief thief ' and there are a bunch of people after him "Thief Thief". You know .so where is the thief you know? (audience laugh) Because the guy in the front is also yelling thief so then nobody thought to grab him you know. It looked like he is also part of the pursuit party.

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura gave the story actually how some of the people who are actually cheating, actually stealing from Kṛṣṇa, they are the first to accuse everybody else to the end. So then actually they are the ones who are doing even while accusing the other innocent people who are actually pure in heart.  But they will say they are all thieves. When you actually go in to find out who the real thief is.

So, in Vaiṣṇava Ke also brought out this point.  Somebody’s mind, the nature of the mind is like that- it will try to accuse others and give some kind of reason why we can leave strict Kṛṣṇa consciousness. why everybody, nobody is doing it, also I am not a pure devotee. So many different excuses are given. But here, in this verse you can very clearly see that.

If we want to get back to Kṛṣṇa, if we want to, we have to transcend bodily and psychic identification.  That means we have to work for Kṛṣṇa's interests. Kṛṣṇa’s interests are spiritual, just like this.

If the temple has a car and if you don't put water in the radiator and you don't change the oil and you don't -- the engine, the head- crank or something. Well, you are not taking care of Kṛṣṇa’s property nicely. That’s very careless, very irresponsible.

it's not that somebody who is Kṛṣṇa conscious does not have very clean body, doesn’t maintain the body, eat properly. It is natural that a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will also take very nice care of the body.

In fact, the materialists say it is my body. I can do whatever I want.  Even the government says, all doctors are saying that smoking is dangerous for the lungs, causes cancer. But people say it’s my life, I can do what I want. If I want to die of cancer, who can stop me. The demoniac idea is this is my body, if I want to destroy it, I can do so. They actually mistreat their body. They are thinking theirs to mistreat. But the devotee doesn’t put any dangerous and harmful substances into the body knowingly. Tries to maintain the body.

So, it would be healthy to serve Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes materialists thinking well devotees we mistreat ourselves like this. So many austerities, Actually the devotees generally are healthier, take proper care of the bodies.

So, when we engage everything in Kṛṣṇa's service that’s basically whole Lord Caitanya's movement is about. Engaging our thoughts, words, deeds everything in Kṛṣṇa's service. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave a very simple process to spread the saṅkīrtana movement. What a wonderful Yajña. We can use all our activities physical, mental and intellectual everything can be used.

How to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movements?

How to go to temple?

How to get a better properties?

How to distribute more books?

How to develop friends and congregation?

How to train up new devotees?

Goes on and on. These are built up with little artistic presentation or video presentation, musical presentation, everything can be used in Kṛṣṇa's service. So it allows for engaging our mind and body completely in Kṛṣṇa's service. When we absorb in one...physical, mental but thats why Kṛṣṇa explain in Bhagavad-gītā

mām ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

When we engage in Bhakti Yoga, Sevate -service in process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become Guṇātīta. Guṇātīta means transcendental to the modes of nature, Brahmabhūta - we become identified with the spirit. Engaging in devotional service it means of being on spiritual platform.

Brahmacārī, serving their guru, gṛhastha also serving their Guru. Even wife is serving her husband as a Vaiṣṇava that way she is also presenting the devotional service. Husband as a devotee is representing Kṛṣṇa. Husband is protecting his family also as a devotional service, engaging them in Kṛṣṇa's service.  The vānaprasthīs they directly engaging in Kṛṣṇa's service. Sannyāsīs are completely engaging in service of Guru and Kṛṣṇa.

All varṇāśrama in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is based upon serving Kṛṣṇa. All the āśrama everything is to bring people up to the spiritual identification. We are doing our devotional service with idea the of achieving a perfectional life. This is Sanskrit verse śaṣyānām gṛham āgatam, śaṣya is the crops in the field.

The grains, wheat, rice the crops may have very nice field crops but if the hailstorm comes, nuts the ripen grains turn on the ground then what is the use. The farmer when is there satisfaction, if he sees the field, he gets certain satisfaction but the real satisfaction is when you can harvest and bring it home.

That is the why the vedic verse śaṣyānām gṛham āgatam, finally some kind of devotees starts to praise some new devotee. Bhakti Siddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura though this devotee is fired up, very good, very nice devotee and then he was really śaṣyānām gṛham āgatam, like the crops putting, the crops one who would getting a harvest home. It’s got a good start. Let’s see if it makes to the end.

Sometimes new devotee says why that so much service, I done so much for Kṛṣṇa. I done so much for the movement. What movement done for me?

I don't have color tv, I don't have car, I don't have this, I don't have that. Here materialistic devotees complain.

Actually, what we want. Why we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

We come to get home back to godhead. And until we get there the harvest doesn’t take in. Just in the field somehow people, devotees somewhere along the line. They start identifying themselves with the body and mind. In some cases. And it is very painful how this disease infects the devotee. And for the devotees who are fixed they have to tell no this is diseased, this is what here to guard against. I don't identify with body and mind. I can bring the harvest back home.

When I am back in the spiritual world with Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa and spiritual master and we’re serving in my internal svarūpa. That's when I have kṛṣṇa-prema and bowing down to  lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is coming and embracing me and saying why are you taking so long to come back to me have been waiting for you. These are all transcendental mercy described by the gosvāmīs. That have been achieved that’s when the harvest Is there. Until then there’s really no time. It’s not the time to delay.

So, it goes just like agriculture. If you miss the time...Sometimes when it is sunny out. you have to dry your grains in the field quick and get them back in. Because if it starts raining and you don’t get the grains back in time, they all rot in the field. There’s all these kinds of obstacles.

So, we don’t know what the future is holding for us. We don’t know what obstacles are there. So, whatever the circumstance is we want to simply be very careful. To use every opportunity in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Not to make a slight mistake.

Prabhupāda said it’s like if somebody is shaving with a straight edged razor, and they are a little careless they can easily cut themselves. So that spiritual life is a like a razor’s edge. It just takes a little bit of bodily identification; little bit of mental concoction and we can get off the track. And the harvest won’t get home this life. Maybe some future life we are going to get a chance nothing is lost. But we want to bring the harvest home in this lifetime. This is the special chance that Lord Caitanya is giving us. that we can bring home the harvest in this time.

Prabhupāda promised, if you chant 16 rounds, follow the 4 principles, engaging in service to Guru and Kṛṣṇa your whole life you will go back to Godhead. That’s the yajña, to get the harvest home. So, in the material world people are actually having the hard struggle for existence. But then the devotees they are not having that same kind of struggle actually. Because of being under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Even the so-called material things we have to do.

In devotional service everything is blissful. It’s just like in a river. If you try to swim in a river and there is a strong current, it sweeps you away. But then you look in the river and you see that even though there is a strong current. There are so many fish in the river, they are swimming upstream. Inspite of the very swift rapids, they are able to swim upstream.

So, when we see that everything is Kṛṣṇa’s energy then by becoming like one of the fish in Kṛṣṇa’s energy we can even swim upstream. What normal people think to be very austere, very difficult situation, a great difficulty… for the devotee it’s all simply part of their devotional service. When there is some crisis, the devotee takes it as Kṛṣṇa’s mercy. This is forcing me to surrender more intensely on Kṛṣṇa. To realize there is no other hope but Kṛṣṇa. And when there is a good favorable situation, then the devotee uses that nice situation to do more service for Kṛṣṇa, cause its less obstacles. Not to reduce the devotional service. So, everything is focused. And when we get that focus then we’ll get unlimited spiritual ecstasy in serving Kṛṣṇa.

Actually, in Canto 1 Chapter 3 Text 33 it states that whenever a person experiences by self-realization that both the subtle and gross bodies have nothing to do with the pure self, at that time, he sees himself as well as the Lord.

So, when we actually realize that my happiness is not dependent on my gross or subtle body. That it doesn’t really have anything to do with the eternal spirit self, immediately we realize Kṛṣṇa. How can we realize that? When we are engaging our body in Kṛṣṇa’s service.

When we are consciously doing everything for the pleasure of Guru and Kṛṣṇa. And those activities may even be the same activities that sometimes some of us do for their own physical interest. But consciously we are not doing it for that purpose, we are doing it to please Kṛṣṇa. Somebody eats for their own physical purpose, we’re eating for Kṛṣṇa’s service. Somebody sleeps because everybody sleeps. But the devotees say, “I have to take rest so I can serve Kṛṣṇa better tomorrow”.

So, the same activities are done but with a totally different consciousness. And as one does everything, in all the different ashrams of life, in all the different circumstances, simply for the pleasure of Guru and Kṛṣṇa. Then you are eventually identified.

Actually, this body, this mind, has nothing to do with the pure spirit soul. My spirit soul is eternally related with Kṛṣṇa. And then we can realize we need only Kṛṣṇa. But to achieve that we we have to really work at transcendental identification. If we don’t follow the process, then we are not going to get the harvest. That we have to understand. We are not going to get it in this lifetime. And if we very carefully follow it, You know even a reasonably good attempt by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, by Prabhupāda's mercy, by Gaura-Nitāi's mercy, that we'll achieve. Reasonably good attempt. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy, by Prabhupāda's mercy, by Gaura-Nitāi's mercy, that we'll achieve.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

Any question?

Devotee: (25:40 inaudible)

That's with the sādhana; the chanting, the hearing, the association with the Vaishnavā’s Protects us.

I remember some devotee just told me, somehow, I started. gradually... I got sick, I got pregnant, I got this, I got forget what it was I stopped chanting. But I'm going to be a devotee my whole life even though I haven't I'm not chanting anymore, but I mean in my heart I am a devotee. I believe in Kṛṣṇa, there's no problem. But then what happens is that it's very easy for the grains to rot in that state. When we are chanting, when we do service, we get spiritual pleasure.

We get the sukṛti we can realise that that satisfaction of serving Kṛṣṇa. Because the consciousness is kept pure. It's like the radio is able to be tuned to Kṛṣṇa's station. And when we stop chanting, we're actually the control gets fuzzy and we don't get a clear reception. We don’t get a clear experience of that spiritual bliss and therefore We all depend on happiness. Don’t kid yourselves. Every one of us wants to be happy.

And therefore Nityānanda Prabhu - they are giving us, Gaurāṅga - they are giving us spiritual bliss. To get this spiritual bliss is the harināma saṅkīrtana. “golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana”. When we engage in the saṅkīrtana we get so much spiritual bliss. And that’s what every from attraction to temporary happiness. If we don’t chant, if we don’t get that spiritual bliss, if we don’t get sometimes, in kīrtana and if we don’t really absorb ourselves in the chanting, then we are more susceptible to māyā’s attacks, as we gradually don’t chant.

So definitely keeping up the sādhana, keeping up the program, giving into the harināma, giving into the discussions of Lord Kṛṣṇa kathā, all these spiritual activities. The time we invest in them. That is the immunization so the grains will be preserved for the harvest and the other devotional services and other things, these are just the continuing of the watering and the fertilization process as part of the weeding. Cause if we didn’t do that we would get into weeds, get into some material activity.

So, we have to keep ourselves active in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Just like you have people who go on the fields and they weed and they take care. But eventually you have to also irrigate, flood the field and to put some fertilizer. That kind of irrigation and fertilization.

Lord Caitanya described it as especially these intense devotional services, He described it as ihāṅ mālī sece nitya śravaṇādi jala or hearing and chanting and other devotional services water your spiritual plane.

So, you don’t want your plant to dry in the field. You’ve to keep it healthy, watered. So this all has been compared to a kind of like a rice field. Can’t, there’s no problem in overflooding it. Keeps away the other weeds when it dries and cracks. Or if you don’t properly weed, you don’t really keep it flooded. Other weeds come up, then that’s a problem. The devotional creeper doesn’t suffer from overflooding of kṛṣṇa-prema. That’s one of the problem, it’s not sensitive to that.

So sometimes in a rice field, the example has been given that, you have to always keep it flooded, at least a few inches of water should be there. If ever you let the paddy field dry out then what happens is that. There is a certain water retaining factor that the field has and when it dries out it starts to crack. Then when you pour the water again fooo, it doesn’t hold it easy. It goes through the substratum and it’s much harder to.

Once you lose, it’s harder to get it back again. You have to re-soften that soil and in fact if that ever happens, if your rice field ever dries out you have to hire workers to come in and they physically massage the soil and make all the cracks disappear. Now they have little machines that they can (Not clear 30:02) machines. But previously in India and still today they do it by hand. (Not clear 30:08).

So once if we lose it we lose the momentum, we lose the taste. It's a little harder to get back. You actually have to really initially you do a lot of tapasyā or whatever you might feel like tapasyā because you let the field dry. Just like new bhaktas they go through so many difficulties.

You know some devotees sometimes talk to them harshly and they get on their case and they think wow, why did I come here for this you know They go through so many and then finally they get a taste and they pass through it all they take initiation. But then somewhere along the line if you let your field dry out again then you have to again expect that you are going to have to put a little extra effort in to get the water retaining factor that gets the bliss back in the heart, because you neglect it. So, all these examples are given by the various ācaryās. Lot of rice examples, sugarcane examples, agricultural examples are there.

You know the story about the ABC teacher. Actually, you know all these things seem very simple. Like devotional service, sometimes you know, is too simplistic, it’s actually a great science.

Prabhupāda many times said the karmīs and the jñanīs and yogīs they can't do devotional service. A very great art and a science on how to do it. So, there's an example given that one time there was a widow had a small, had a young child. And she was poor and not very well educated but she wanted to really give the best to her son.

So, she hired a tutor, a private tutor to train the son and every month she'd pay 100 rupees to the tutor to come and teach her son. After school with the homework and everything. So after about 6 years the boy was about maybe 11 years old, the tutor started to train... So today we are going to teach you geometry. And the widow was inside the kitchen cooking, so she just came out, faintly hearing what was going on not really paying much attention, but just kind of hearing while she was cooking.

So, the teacher was saying, the first part of geometry is the triangle. The triangle has three sides, three points. So, each point is denoted by a letter A, B and ...

Background voice: the other one is C

Jayapatākā  Mahārāja: A, B and C. So, the boy repeated yes. What's this one? A, what's this one? B and the other one C. Now the sides are called as A and B, B and C, C and A. So he had to teach him.  Now repeat what's this side? AB..BC.CA.

AB, BC, CA (in a tune).

And the widow has been listening. And all she’s hearing is you know. ABC, ABC ... She's said what have I been doing. I've been paying this tutor, for 6 years, 100 rupees a month and still he's telling my son the ABCs.

She flipped out and ran in, (shouting) " GET OUT OF HERE! YOU'RE FIRED! YOU'RE FIRED! OUT!!! OUT!!! WHAT A NONSENSE! AFTER SIX YEARS, YOU CAN ONLY STILL TEACH MY SON ABC ABC ABC!! HE'S NOT PROGRESSED AT ALL.!

So, you are a useless teacher You get out!".

"No! But... "(shouting) " I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING! I'VE HAD ENOUGH! ABC AFTER SIX YEARS! 100 RUPEES A MONTH??! OUT!! OUT!!

What can a teacher do? He packed his book and left. So sometimes we think that this is all ABC ABC, it sounds like the same thing. But it's not, it's actually higher mathematics, you know... it's higher spiritual subject matter. Some of the definitions and nomenclature may be the same, it's actually much higher. So general people they sometimes think, what is this? only you chant hare Kṛṣṇa, nothing more?

.. like if you sit down. do pretzel āsanās then you know they are thinking .. You tell them all of devotional service. It's just Hare Kṛṣṇa nothing more? There's so much to devotional service.. there are so many things.. but to the uninformed observer .. like that widow, they think this is all ABC.

They don't realize that this ABC is a different level of ABC.. This is a geometry.. this is a higher aspect.. they are just superficially mistaken.. they get fooled.

So, all these little principles that Lord Caitanya set they seem very simplistic but they are very profound. And they are the means that we can bring the harvest home, that we can get back to Godhead, we can develop pure love of Kṛṣṇa. They are much more advanced than the other yoga processes.

We are dealing with a much.. with a spiritual the fine cutting edge between spirit, mind, and matter. The fine cutting edge, which the yogis don't get to that level till they are up in dhyāna and samādhī. Then they start to really see what's the difference between the mind and the spirit . We are trying to train even our bhaktas, even the new devotees.. all the right from the very beginning of devotional service, bhakti-yogīs, what is spiritual and what is material. Is that alright ?  The other question. Any doubts? Questions?

That's why Prabhupāda said that this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to be conscious, we are conscious about some of the gosvāmīs, said they would come into ecstasy, then the ecstasy was stopped by Kṛṣṇa, according to your example, so they could be aware of what is going on .. Sometimes Lord Caitanya would be in ecstasy and then he'd notice all kinds of people were there watching and then he would control himself.

So even if Lord Caitanya would control himself obviously like when he was embracing Rāmānanda Rāya and then they are crying and then he looked and saw the brāhmaṇa said what is this sannyāsī embracing the śudrā for? Their consciousness was in a totally physical, external platform.

So then Lord Caitanya saw they couldn't understand what was going on. Then he controlled himself and he told Rāmānanda Rāya, "Let's get together alone sometime!". And then they had a private meeting when nobody else was around and discussed Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So like that if we are aware that what we are doing is actually disturbing somebody else, then it is detrimental for someone else's spiritual life. Then the .. of course, the one exception I heard was that somebody said that Prabhupāda sometimes when we are chanting in harināma they cover their ears.

The devotee sometimes I forgot exactly what he said pull his hand away, of course that would be in the west, you can't really do that but I mean it's like or chant louder!.. We're not... that might seem like to the west like wow! that's really violent, that's impeding at someone's privacy but from a higher spiritual point. Actually Prabhupāda just wanted to actually deliver that person. That the chanting is somehow having some effect... that to purify them. So even though at harināma, some people may or may not like it, we'll try to sing it sweetly and nicely. But if there is some real demoniac person who don't like it we are not going to stop chanting. It's not, you know ... that'll be the other extreme. But then our devotional service in dealing with devotees, we have to be considerate that we want to help the other devotees and their service also.

It will please Kṛṣṇa if we can help others. We don't want to just do our service and inadvertently obstruct anybody else and their service. So, it's a team effort we try to help others. Older devotees try to help the younger devotees, the less advanced devotees, so they can also advance. It's not what sometimes people say a swan needs a swan.

It's not like that Devotional service is, everyone tries to help the others as much as they can, at least not to obstruct anybody in their devotional service. Knowing that Kṛṣṇa will be very pleased if we help others. And Kṛṣṇa isn't pleased if we cause any devotees some kind of unnecessary anxiety.

The guru, the temple presidents, the managers, sometime have the thankless task of having to tell devotees that well your service needs to be improved in this area. Or give some kind of constructive criticism. Sometimes the devotees might not feel happy about it.

So, they try to learn to do it in the nicest possible way or the most effective means. Sometimes one has to preaching. has to do that so that done as quickly as possible, it produces the desired results. To actually bring the person out of the modes.

And if the person is brought more into the modes then we didn't do it right.

Hare Kṛṣṇa!

 

Second Level Proofer: Karuṇāpati Keśava das

Second Level Proofed on: 18-Feb-2021