19890924 Bhagavad-gītā 4.34 | Sunday Feast

19890924 HH JAYAPATAKA  SWAMI MAHARAJ, Bhagavad Gita, chapter 4, verse 34, Atlanta Georgia.

The following is a Sunday feast lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami Maharaj on September 24^th 1989 in Atlanta Georgia  the class begins with the reading from the Bhagavad Gita Chapter 4 verse 34.

Bhagwad Gita 4.34

“tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ”

Translation: Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.

Vande ham sri guruh sri yutah pada kamalam sri gurunvasihnavams ca sri rupamsagrajatamsahaganaraghunathanvitam tam sajivam.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam

parmanada madhavam sri Chaitanya ishwaram

Purport by Srila Prabhupad: The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The Bhāgavatam (6.3.19) says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. Not only should one hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.

HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaj: This statement in Bhagavad Gita by Krsna was in reply to Arjuna’s question of what he should do, what was the way he could actually perceive to achieve self-realization for the perfection of life. The vedas are very broad, they have four principle vedas, 108 upanishads then there is the 18 puranas and other histories like Mahabharat, Ramayan, then there is the philosophical treatise of Vedanta sutra all in all you are taking about million and million of verses. The Mahabharat alone is 200,000 verses, so it is very difficult for someone to know all of the vedas. Vedas means the knowledge which was revealed from God, from Bhagawan to enable a human being to know what is this world, how to live in this world and achieve the objective of life and also ultimately to know the absolute truth, what is the origin of everything, how to realize our self and the absolute truth.

So, these vedas have been described, the four vedas are called Karma Kanda or the part of all the vedas is to deal with fruitive work they concentrate on how to live in the material world and get good karma for the actions that are performed. How to avoid bad karmas, by this one can get better birth, better wealth, better facility in this life and future lives but still nonetheless one is bound up within the material universe. To realize the truth is called gyana kanda. To realize what the Spirit is, what is eternal that is dealt, that section of the vedas is dealt by the Upanishads. Then there is the Upasana kanda- the process of worshipping the truth, this is dealt within the Puranas, especially the Bhagavatam.

Srimad Bhagavatam puranam as well as the Bhagavad Gita gives the science on how to worship the absolute truth and realize. So in order to engage in realization of the absolute truth is recommended one should approach a spiritual master, in this world people are looking for the truth every newspaper, every magazine quite a few of the films are directed at least in part to truth trying to disseminate information increase the knowledge of people certainly the learning institutions, schools, colleges, universities. Institutes they are theoretically dedicated towards pursuit of knowledge towards acquiring truth but in the vedas it is explained there is a difference between relative truth and absolute truth.

A relative truth would appear something which is conditioned by time & by space, something which is absolute is unchanging which is beyond time and space. So things to do with God, the spirit they are considered absolute truth because they are truth that never change. Just like today this country is America is a relative truth because 200 and some years ago this was part of England before that this was part of the Charaki nation or part of the I don’t know which Indian nation exactly that part that we are sitting in was at that time, I know it was Charaki and small piece maybe a part of the Charaki nation before that who know what nation it was.

 So when we say we are American it is a relative truth, relative truth doesn’t mean it is false it just means for the time being it is true but this body was born in America so it is a American citizen is considered an American body but when the soul leaves the body at the time of death it take birth again there is no guarantee it will take birth in America it could take birth Russia, it could take birth in England, it can take birth in another planet, because in the vedas it is said that there are many planets that are inhabited by Intelligent being’s, some more intelligent than human beings, some less spiritual than human beings.

So the point is in the vedas that there are two things we have to be concerned with being happy in this relative world in the life we are living now and knowing what is our relation with the absolute world? In the modern world absolute truth is kind of swept under the rug probably because it is something which you can’t know by experimentation very easily. So therefore since it is not accessible to normal empiric investigation, so it is kind of better just to leave it, but in the Indian tradition, the vedic tradition the great seers, the great yogis they would research absolute truth as various forms of yoga. Yoga means to link with the absolute truth, the word yoga means to link so someone would use the mystic yoga process whereby through breathing exercise, through meditation, through introspection they would be able to come in touch with the original source of all energy they could realize there spiritual dynamic force.

The Bhagavad Gita earlier explains that the body dies, the body goes through changes like this little child is crying but in ten years from now it will become a young person than when it is 25 years it will become from a baby, to a child, to a youth, middle age, old age so go through, so many changes in the body but the person remains the same. So Krsna explains in the Bhagavad Gita that we go through many changes of the body but the soul, the self is not different when the body perishes when it becomes uninhabitable. The living force simply transfers to a new birth at the time of conception enters into the womb of the mother through the sperm of the male and then conception begins when the two eggs combine. But we just see that, that science has been able to observe but that there is a living soul, if the living soul is not there, life doesn’t come.  The soul is present and that soul is known as atma in the Bhagavad Gita, from the vedas and it is considered as cita shakti or living energy. This material world is considered to be achit or unconscious just like this table doesn’t have any consciousness but if you hear the person he will say “what are you doing?”, he will have consciousness, we can feel we will, we desire, we think so there is difference between dead matter and living. Actually the body is not alive but there is a living force in the body that makes the body alive.

Bhagavad Gita later on explains that the living force is situated in the region of the heart and through some divine arrangement there is a connection between the gross body and this living force. So the living force expands its consciousness throughout the body in the blood stream and through the blood stream one is able to feel to be conscious. We know if we take a turning kit and cut off the circulation to our hand after a while it becomes senseless, the body itself does not have any senses, the sense is in the soul which is the witness which is experiencing and this body is like a machine instrument which is gathering all the information. Bhagavad Gita explains we have action senses, we have knowledge gathering senses and together along with the mind these different senses are the instruments that allow the soul to experience this physical body. When the soul leaves the body the body is dead there is a difference, if you have seen a dead body a big difference in the dead body and living body.

Once our founder A.C Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, he was preaching to very simple village people in India along the Bangladesh border to illustrate to them, he said in your village sometimes there is an old man who has passed away like a grandfather his grandchildren, children other relatives come they cried he is gone, he is gone, he is gone, hasn’t this happened to you in the village? they said “yes, this has happened” so they are all crying he is gone, he is gone, but there the body was lying. The same hair, the same feet, the same leg, the same face torso why everyone was crying he is gone, who went? What is the difference between that body which was not alive and living body? Modern science doesn’t know what is the chemical changed in the living & the dead body they will tell you the heart stops, the brain wave stops but the vedas say that the living force leaves the body. The living force is the real person; the body is just the cover.

It is interesting in Russia they did an experiment using curion photography; don’t know if someone of you have heard of curion photography. It is a new invention where they can photograph the aura or subtle energy coming out of human bodies or any living entities bodies even plants like they, they take a plant and take a picture with curion photography, they cut off a part of the plant leaf and it will show in the curion photography that the aura of the whole leaf will be there even though a part of the leaf was cut out and depending on some one’s state. Someone is in a really very angry mood there is a red aura, very meditative it is a green like that, I don’t know the exact color breakdown but para-psychologist are using part of this.

In Russia they did an experiment they probably wouldn’t do such an experiment in America they put the person on ECG, brain scan everything and at the time he was about to die they photographed him using a moving curion photography.  In America for the cause of science you could do that, so this person agreed you can photograph me dying, using curion photography and they did this, so it showed the person’s aura naturally around his body and the stethoscope, this was at a big Science Conference, Science and Religion. Different scientist were showing how they have been studying these types of things, so it showed how the heart beat stopped, the brain wave stopped, clinically dead but the aura was still there and after 5 seconds after being clinically dead, the aura lifted up over the body stayed there for about 12 seconds and then… “phish..!” went off it just swept off the screen.

So according to the Bhagavad Gita we have two bodies a gross body and a subtle body and the Atma, living force is connected with the subtle body and when the gross body dies the living force goes with the subtle body, which will include the aura and goes on to its next birth which is decided by higher natural laws. So the Russian experiment would seem to support or substantiate the Vedic version, now the point of this particular verse is whether we use the introspective means that is one method, the another form of yoga is a more active type of yoga, which is what we basically practice chanting, serving, meditating while doing our activities. Whichever yoga one may practice there are several different types of yoga, Gyana yoga, Ashtanga yoga, the eight fold yoga system, and the yoga of knowledge, the yoga of Bhakti, Devotion and Intelligence.

In Krsna consciousness we follow the yoga of Intelligence and devotion but whatever yoga one follows one needs to have a spiritual master, to learn how to practice the particular yoga and each spiritual master was a disciple himself of his spiritual master, so by this way it has been handed down through a succession. And although empirically it may be difficult now may be curion photography and many types of regression and hypnotism and different things like that people are getting lot of evidences which some accept as scientific, some question empirically may be more and more there will be newer ways of verifying this. But through realization this has been the traditional way that the self being of a spiritual nature, being of a dynamic force can realize the dynamic force and a master should realize. Every devotee should realize itself and in turn they should help other also to realize, so in this way it is naturally handed down.

So human life is meant to inquire, normally it is like I was taught by my parents you know whenever you go to a social function don’t discuss politics, religion, philosophy or few other things, I forget so basically because these things people they take it down to very theoretical level. So it is maxim that you can discuss on the social level Guru and disciple, Spiritual master and student relationship is something where the disciple makes an inquiry tries to eradicate the doubts and listens to the answer. It’s not a social thing what do you think, I think like ok I want to learn, what you have to teach me, so I will ask and then I will listen. Then if I have any doubt I ask again until all my doubts are cleared away, a challenging kind of approach or a doubting approach, cynical approach is very difficult to learn, not that one should blindly accept. That is also not recommended but just that one should ask the question and see if you don’t believe it, if you have some doubt, why are you doubting it? Put it into a proper way and ask again.  

So that is the system, it mention here learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master, inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The ancient vedic system was to render service to the Gurus. All the great masters would have a spiritual master and they would, they would also be render service, in fact even India this tradition of Guru and disciple is such a tradition, even in the colleges and universities up to very recently it was so much a part that the students would consider their teacher… kind of like a Guru to them. So they come in the class and touch the feet of the teacher this is more or less gone out! Now many have schools but…. (Some devotee speaks- in some of the schools still there) still there? This might be interesting, I understand there are lot of students today from university, I will love to touch their feets hahahaha….. But that was the tradition you will always find like the especially the musicians they consider like Ravi Shankar or George Harrisson- anyone who studied from the eastern he is my sitar Guru or you go to the dance teacher he is my dance Guru and then they respect like that supposed to offer some respect and get.

But this all originally comes from the spiritual Guru who gives spiritual knowledge. So even Krsna when he was a child, he was sent by his parents to live with a Guru called Sandipani Muni and although Krsna is considered as the God himself he came to the earth 5000 years ago to give instructions to human society. He also said I have to teach by example because if I don’t show the proper example then everyone will use me as an excuse to do something wrong. So Krsna is considered the Guru of everyone, when he was 16 years old or 17 years, he went and lived in a Guru ashram.

 And he would go and collect fire wood and in between classes he would do some service for the Guru, So…. (temple bell rings- Jai Nitya Gaura Chandra) still in India we have ashramas here in the west we have ashramas and those who become the priest to become the full time monks or priest or married priest. They don’t go generally and collect fire wood for the Guru but they do have a Guru-Disciple relationship and sometimes they just do some service for the Guru. Sometimes the married couple may cook a meal for the Guru or do some kind of service. But generally whatever they do, they do it with the idea that I am serving through my spiritual master and through my spiritual master it goes to his spiritual master and to his spiritual master and originally the original spiritual master is God he is Krsna. And so it is coming down through a disciple succession or a chain of spiritual masters. So someone may say I am not pure enough to serve God I can’t approach God directly but I can approach my Guru and my Guru can approach his Guru and his Guru can… so in this way eventually like, an electrical chain it goes to Krsna.  

So it is considered if one is a servant of the servant of the God that is better than considering oneself directly to be the servant of God. This is an interesting concept of course because in the west nobody wants to servant everybody wants to be a master how to make a head in life …. How to be the number-one, but in the spiritual life to be a servant of God is considered to be success or to be a servant of the servant of God because since God is undisputed greatest nobody can become God, to be the servant of God is the best, we could become and that is the most exalted position. Since well even to be the servant of one of God’s intimate servitors is not different so in our practice we consider it, our identity or our perfection. If we can become pure servitors of the Lord of the Supreme personality of God head and the more purely we can serve the lord through his servants, then we will be able to realize directly our relationship with Krsna. Although somebody is serving a Guru or serving a spiritual master because there is this link, there is a direct link through the spiritual succession, one has a direct connection with Krsna. So although while serving the Guru one feels directly a connection with God this is something which can be experienced, can be easily experienced but difficult to be conceived without experiencing.

I remember one time somebody said why do you all bow down before Guru or bow down before Krsna, to they asked our founder Srila Prabhupada, so he said well - you do it than you will find out, that by bowing down before God it is a profound experience and you actually start to realize that yes God is great and we are a small part of God we are putting that concept into practice. When you start to put concepts into practice than you realize them one thing is theoretical knowledge and one is realized knowledge. Once somebody asked Prabhupada what is difference between theoretical knowledge and realized knowledge, well theoretical knowledge we all hear when we get married there are lot problems that happen, when you get married than you realize it. So it is like that you may understand yes, I am a part of God, I am part of the absolute truth, I am eternal spirit soul but when we start to act as a spirit soul we start to act in that relationship than we realize.

So it is difficult for us to directly serve God because God is situated or Krsna is situated in the spiritual world, he is situated beyond our material vision, so in order for us to get access to him he descents as a deity form, so we can serve him as a deity. But that deity generally doesn’t talk to us sometimes they have talked to great devotees but generally for ordinary devotees they are not able to hear the deities talk. The deities even might appear to be stay almost like statues or something to a neophyte person made out of a material object but philosophically we know since God, Krsna expands himself through all the energies he can be present in any form and when a deity is made out of bona-fide substance like metal, wood, jewels, stone. There are eight different substances you can make a deity; it is made according to the description given in the scripture and vedas.

It is installed, the deity is installed and Krsna is requested to come into the deity and be present in the deity form by a spiritual master, that Krsna putting a mail box he will accept all the services offered to the deity directly and he is actually there and as a devotee become more purified, they can actually sense, they can actually feel it, eventually you can even communicate with the deity. But that is something which is… as I am saying is very difficult for say neophytes to realize on that level because a deity generally doesn’t talk to neophyte devotees.

We also serve Krsna through the Guru or the spiritual master, like if you serve hot milk to the deity, if it Is too hot the deity won’t say hey “ouch you burnt my lips” but if you serve the spiritual master too hot a milk or too hot a soup or something “ohh you burnt my mouth what are you doing, why are you serving so hot”, so than he teaches us that we have to be careful, we have to be conscious. So, we do our meditation, we do our active service to serve the Guru we have to be conscious what we doing, not just do it in an impersonal or mechanical way but do it in a very conscious way than the meditation is proper.

 So, by doing devotional service it is another big topic -by doing devotional service actually we can transcend the laws of karma. In the material world for every action there is reaction. So whenever we are acting, we have to take the reaction for what we do, if we kill someone we have to take the reaction. We may escape the law but then eventually we may find that in the next birth we may get run over by hit and run car or something, we wonder he was nice guy he was a south more champion of the football team how come he got ran over by that car, in his previous life he would have hit & run over someone or something like that.., why is someone born blind or born cripple because in the previous life they did something to deserve it. So, whatever we do we have to take, the reaction of course the other way if we do something beneficial for others you also get a good reaction. Whatever it is you are stuck in the material world to suffer or enjoy the reaction. But when you are directly serving Krsna or when you are serving God, serving his devotees, spiritual master than there is no material reaction because you are offering all the work to out of the material world to God so he takes the reaction, just like when a soldier is serving under the order of his commander, the commander is supposed to take the responsibility at least as long as the commander is ordering something within the law.

When the Guru is ordering something which is bona-fide according to the scriptures, ok if he says something that is crazy that everyone commit suicide he is not a Guru. The scriptures say you must never commit suicide so it is not like people think well the Guru is a dangerous cult. He is going to tell everybody like in Johnston do crazy things that, that can happen if people really know the philosophy in vedic culture, these type of crazy things don’t happen because we are trained that we are only to follow the Guru, as long as he doesn’t go against the scriptures and against the previous Guru’s, as long as he is giving bona-fide instruction which is at face value a bona-fide thing.

 He is giving us instruction for our spiritual benefit we should follow, just like you go to a doctor he tells you to take this medicine, take this therapy we put our trust In the doctor, so is like a spiritual doctor we put our trust In the Guru but if tells us something which is obviously contradicting we don’t follow. In fact there are many cases when it happens one has to reject his Guru for contradicting Krsna, but as long as there is not this contradiction we are serving them, actually that activities, which we do are transcendental. By acting in a transcendental way we start to realize what is like to be totally a spiritually liberated soul. We start to become free of anxiety, free of suffering, free of a lot of all the material pressures that come on us and this is the first symptom of somebody who is engaging in pure bhakti yoga or pure devotional service relieved from material suffering.

Now even like myself I had to suffer materially externally had an assassination attempt on my life and but although I had to go through that very materially trying situation. But somehow by the mercy of Krsna I could keep my mind on Krsna throughout the whole thing. I was fortunate not to loose my consciousness, when I went into the operation room and I never felt foretaken or felt that anytime I was unprotected, whether I was going to live or die that was under the hand of God. Ofcourse, I was hoping that I would be able to live because there was lot of un-finished work that I had, but ultimately we have to leave the body some time, so by Lord’s blessing I was given a chance remain alive in this body and continue.

So sometimes devotees have to go through difficult times but at the same time they are protected in a spiritual sense. They are protected and they feel the protection of Krsna even in the difficult times so basically this is the way gradually we can become more and more realized is by putting our faith or putting our philosophy into practice when we realize it but yes depending on Krsna, Krsna reciprocates Krsna does help maybe in little things or life and death situations so now it is the time for feast coming up but if there is questions I would like to answer any questions people have.

(I have one question)- sure (question- can we see bible as sacred scripture)

HH Jayapatākā Swami Maharaj: Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, which teaches people how to love God, we can consider it as sacred. One of our like we have a ten commandments in chanting, the ten offenses we should avoid, one of them is we shouldn’t offend any scripture which is imparting knowledge about God or which is glorifying the Lord and his holy name. So we respect Bible, Quran any scripture that give scientific knowledge on God. The difference is that we don’t see any contradiction, it is like if you have go to college you  know you find, you can go to the store and buy a pocket dictionary Websters ….. dictionary you go to the library you get the unbridged dictionary huge monstrous book.  Basically the bible it is one like book, like this Quran is another book, like that and the vedas are like you can stack the vedas up from this side to the other side of the room probably will take more than that in books.

There is so much information, the information about other planets, the information about life, information on like even in the Bhagavatam in the fourth canto to mentions exactly how the embryo forms in the womb, from day one until the ninth month and finally birth month. Day by day, week by week, month by month, the size which organs are developing, when different organs, different limbs are manifesting which even modern science don’t even knew in the past century, but this is written Sanskrit 5000 years ago.

The vedas are not giving some kind of dogmatic knowledge rather it is trying to give all the knowledge that we need to know what is life, so when you know the vedas you excavate the Bible I haven’t found anything In the Bible it is not in the vedas. And in fact even my mother who is the president of a local church after reading the Bhagavad Gita, she gives like big sermons now on the Bible because she knows- it is all clear. Lot of times I used to go to my priest when I was going to church & I will say what is this, he will say it’s a mystery but any mystery from the bible I can give a lecture without any hesitation it is very clear just like a like a puzzle or some other parts are missing now after reading the vedas it all fits-in, because originally there is only one God.

In different countries, different places little knowledge is revealed, here little there. You see the overall picture you can see here is the moral instruction, here is the spiritual instruction, here it is how it all fits in, but you don’t find the contradiction. So what we are trying to do through knowledge, our aim is in the future all regions could unite through knowledge, we actually understand that there is only one God know someone may choose to serve through Jesus, through Mohammed or through that is there personal choice and how they want to approach God. But if we can come to the point of really understanding there is one God there is a different ways.

I may follow Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, someone may follow Mohammed another person may follow… we find ultimately there is not a big contradiction it is slightly difference in the process and even in the process there is a lot more similarity than people like to, whether you chant Hare Krsna or you chant halalulya, just like George Harrison when he is saying my sweet Lord he is saying Halalulya Halalulya then suddenly in the background he starts singing Hare Krsna Hare Krsna so he was telling I wanted to introduce but if I would have directly say Hare Krsna the fans would not have liked it so he said Halalulya Halalulya and ending In the background Hare Krsna Hare Krsna that we are all taking about the same sweet Lord is it alright.

Any other question?, yes.

(Question: Can a person be god conscious without…..guide-spiritual master)

HH Jayapatākā Swami Maharaj:  Theoretically by chanting theoretically one can achieve but practically it is not possible, theoretically if you did everything perfect you could do it but since practically nobody can spontaneously do everything perfect you need a guide. If say there was a situation where there was no spiritual master, you just happen say it was a world war one of the book is there that’s all. And no one else is there you only person alive in ten miles, if you find these books and then you read it and just by reading you got some inspiration, you try to practice it then maybe Krsna gave from inside some kind of inspiration, you may be able to achieve perfection theoretically. But practically whether you will or not theoretically, but say that you were in that situation all of a sudden you find out five mile away another person living happens to be a person who really knew the process and then you had a chance to learn from him naturally if you avoid that out of your own pride, no I don’t want to learn from anyone, I want to do it myself that is considered to be foolishness. If someone else know more and is more advanced taking him as a, take whatever you can learn is fully realized take him as your master.

One should seek a Master; while you are seeking a Master start practicing you can realize lot of things. We should be open to learning open to getting mercy open to getting help shouldn’t be closed taking help at the same time while we shouldn’t just whimsically take some as a Guru or spiritual master without being sure that the person is qualified. We should test the spiritual master for a year, see whether the spiritual master is following, whether he knows, whether he can answer my questions, he can get rid of my doubts, then if we are confident- yes, I can put my faith, I can put my confidence in this person, then I can surrender to this person and take his advice, take his guidance then we accept him as our Guru.  Before that we may informally try it out for a while but we may not commit our self, before we make a commitment we should be sure, that is given in the scripture, that Guru should test a disciple before accepting the commitment and the disciple should test the Guru before giving any commitment, should go both ways.

But here like in America there are some groups where you pay $75 and you can buy a Guru, (ha ha ha ..) so I don’t know whether that is, I do know that is not the basic vedic system it’s more like a…(some devotee said- “no it is 300”  hahahaha laughter) anyway I don’t know which group, I am just saying there are some groups which charge and you it is a bit, it is not exactly a traditional way you can put it that way. It’s also people don’t take that kind of commitment they pay the money they get the course they like it, people like them because it is non-comitial but ultimately to advance in spiritual life at a certain point person needs to make a commitment so the vedas say before you make that commitment you should be sure, you should be cautious and before a Guru accepts a disciple he should also see that the person is sincerely interested in self-realization. So that is why we have some people who are disciples they have actually taken a Guru and they are committed to following this process in a very full manner to their whole life, they are considered to be the initiated devotees.

Some of them are considered qualified as priest or Brahman’s, as well then we have this general devotees, who believe in the process but they have not made any commitment, they just personally believe and they practice they are also advancing and they are benefiting, so that is like a larger congregation. So most of the people are in that category that come to the temple and then after coming sometimes they think let me make a commitment or let me find a Guru and then they start to become more serious and they practice and eventually they accept the shelter of a Guru and take initiation and the Guru is personally responsible to guiding that disciple and the disciple is responsible to get all their answers and problems taken care by the Guru in following the advice of the Guru, so does that answers your question, any other question?

(Why we shall not eat onion garlic meat?)

HH Jayapatākā Swami Maharaj: Why we shouldn’t eat meat? well in the 16^th chapter, 18^th chapter different parts of the Bhagavad Gita it mentions that there are different kinds of food and some are in the mode of goodness, some are in the mode of ignorance and some are in the mode of passion. So, specifically animals…. killing animals and eating the flesh is considered in the mode of ignorance. Like killing an animal, animal doesn’t want to die you are inflicting pain on the animal so than you have to take the reaction for that. For self-realization it is specially recommended not to do things in the mode of passion or ignorance, to do things in the mode of goodness, eat food in the mode of goodness, and act in the mode of goodness. Now modern science is also saying that low cholesterol diet gives longer life, meat has high cholesterol, avoid meat diets etc,…

You find if you eat meat diet and milk products together it is very difficult but if you don’t eat meat and just eat milk products than really the cholesterol doesn’t become too much together it is very heavy. So, even now like people not for any religious reason but because of health lot of people reducing the meat intake in their diet for cholesterol, for the heart. But in the vedas it’s said we shouldn’t kill the animals and eat unless it is a life and death situation and there is so much fruits, vegetable, grains and milk products there is no reason.

In fact, when I was in the hospital in Spain the nurses one of them came up to me and started looking,

How long have you been a vegetarian? ---23 years,

Really you don’t eat any meat? ----I don’t eat.

How are you so big?  Hahaha--- plenty of nourishment in vegetarian diet.

So, even the modern doctors some of them in other countries especially they think you really need these things, now in America they are becoming little more open minded there was a time in India they would tell people you have to eat eggs, but now they are saying in America reduce eggs it is very bad too much cholesterol in eggs. And now in India they have found, one and a half idlis that is rice cakes is equal to one all the protein and nourishment you get in one egg, so why eat eggs let the chicken hatch and run around.

So, basically there are lot of material reasons like I can go on speaking economic, ecology different reasons but for a more spiritual reason it should be, only we human being should only eat sanctified food, food that is offered to God as a sacrament offered to Krsna. Krsna say’s he won’t accept a meat, a fish, eggs, offering he accepts all vegetables he doesn’t like onions and garlic because apparently those have got some kind of very strong tamasic or strong influence for some reason. They can be taken as a medicinal some cases but as a normal diet it should be avoided it creates too much heat in the body, Krsna does not accept those as offerings. We eat only food offered to Krsna, then the food does not have any karma.

It is a karma free diet and whatever plants you offer to Krsna they get higher birth the soul from that plant get higher birth and actually you don’t cause violence if you offer vegetables because say offered fruit doesn’t hurt the apple tree, apples are going to fall off any way. And say if you offer spinach, you cut a spinach, the spinach grows back and grains you only harvest them, when the plants are ripened and drying then you take off the grain, so actually you are not killing anything when you are harvesting vegetables, (some devotee asks -what about carrots) I think carrot goes to the end….

In the vedas some people made carrots, carrots I know about that nobody ask hahahaha any way even if there is any pain ….. like the Jains it is another sect in India they don’t eat any roots because they say that when you take out the root you might kill a worm or something. But say that even when you are harvesting a potato (some devotee asks -you don’t take potato?) no, we take potatoes. I know basically the potato the plant gives it at the end you can take out the potato and plant it, I don’t think it harms the plant but any case even if say theoretically generally most of the plants, the root plants even if it does harm or you kill, while harvesting you kill a worm or something that it is has you now it is hard to avoid that, I mean you can’t even if you walk on the street you step on an ant or something.

There are few things you can’t really avoid when you light a fire you may burn an insect, they fly into it, when you sweep your house little spiders, flies and things you are going to sweep out. There are 5 different things you can’t avoid killing certain animals, when you are harvesting crop certain bugs and worms and things get killed, but by offering the food to Krsna as a sacrament and by performing the sacrifice they counteract this type of karma, bad karma and the creatures which inadvertently had to undergo any kind of suffering, they get a higher birth. Normally if you are a carrot next birth isn’t much higher (ha ha ha) you may become a turnip or something, the soul just moves up a little bit so, but if you get offered to Krsna as a carrot chutney you can become a human being in the next life and from there you can get a chance to go back to God Head. So you are really helping out the plant kingdom by offering them to Krsna.

(Some devotee asks -what if we eat animals if they are more in quantity….)

HH Jayapatākā Swami Maharaj: You kill them, in the next birth you may become an animal, so they will kill you doesn’t work. You are not able to offer that animal to Krsna, there is a system If people have to eat meat, then…. we don’t follow this system… within the broader vedic or Hindu tradition there is a, there are different puranas, in the puranas regarding tamasic worship for those that must eat meat, it is a sacrifice that they can offer a goat to Kali the demi-godess Kali the ferocious destructive form of the material nature and in that sacrifice the goat is elevated to human birth.

 But one of the mantras you have to say in the goats ears in Sanskrit is that I am taking your life, now if you want you have the right to take my life in the next birth, so of course people really don’t know the Sanskrit any more so kind of … of quick the word for meat in Sanskrit is “mamsa”. “Mam”- mean aham, I and “sa”-means them or you. So now I am eating you in the future karma you can eat me. So, actually the vedas recommend not to eat meat because of the karmic reaction- If you have at least there is some facility for doing that but it Is very restricted.

It is very restricted but ultimately you are responsible but there is meeting of bad karma because you are elevating that goat to a human birth but that doesn’t provide for killing cows or killing only goats and I think only other animal they allow is a buffalo. But not more intelligent animals which are higher up in the evolution of reincarnation, say anyone a cow dies it becomes a human being. Cow is so high up in the evolutionary chain that the soul that is in the cow body when the cow dies next birth takes as a human being so if you kill a cow actually you are slowing down its evolution because if it just dies naturally, it will take a human birth by killing it consider it bad as killing a human being.

In ancient Indian culture there is a whole history that one king found a man killing a cow and he arrested just like he would arrest a murderer know of course cow slaughter in two states in India West Bengal and Kerala but other states it is still illegal to kill a cow at least there is no slaughter house. If someone wants to kill, they can take in the back yard and have to kill them and take the responsibility but the Government doesn’t allow public slaughter houses there are some Buddhist countries don’t allow killing the cow they don’t consider the cow as sacred or anything but they consider it to be very high up in the evolution of reincarnation from the teachings of Lord Buddha.

In Thailand it is interesting that on the birthday of the king he says if anyone donates me a cow I will give him a seal a royal seal to protect the cow that is wont be killed because in the teaching of Buddha people shouldn’t kill cows, horses few of these five animals which are considered very high up in the run of evolution of reincarnation but to kill them was very bad karma just let nature take care they kill off themselves you don’t have to interfere the point is you want to live so if you have enough vegetables if you have enough food to eat then why are worrying about any way the ecology is going now the animals are dying out anyways this is just from the, just from all the petrol spills and what you call it petroleum spills and the ozone problems it is not really the problem any one else has any question there are many devotees here I can see.     
 

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