19890926 Nectar of Devotion Ch.2 (Evening Darsana)

The following is the evening darshan given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on September 26th 1989 on Atlanta, Georgia. The class is about the Nectar of devotion Chapter 2

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His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

 

rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau

vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau (devotees repeating)

 

I offer my respectful obeisances unto the six Gosvamis, namely Sri Rupa Gosvami, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Sri Jiva Gosvami, and Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, who are very expert in scrutinizingly studying all the revealed scriptures with the aim of establishing eternal religious principles for the benefit of all human beings. Thus they are honored all over the three worlds and they are worth taking shelter of because they are absorbed in the mood of the gopis and are engaged in the transcendental loving service of Radha and Krsna.

 

(Page 20 - It’s the first stages of Devotion)

 

Here is a general description of devotional service given by Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Previously, it has been stated that devotional service can be divided into three categories – namely, devotional service in practice, devotional service in ecstasy and devotional service in pure love of God. Now Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī proposes to establish, to describe devotional service in practice.

 

Going ahead

 

There are certain prescribed methods for employing our senses and mind in such a way that our dormant consciousness for loving Kṛṣṇa will be invoked.

 

(aside:) Can everyone hear? There is no loudspeaker, there is one.

 

As much as the child, with a little practice, can begin to walk. One who has no basic walking capacity cannot walk by practice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be aroused simply by practice. Actually, there is no practice. When we wish to develop our innate capacity for devotional service, there are certain processes which, by our accepting and executing them, will cause that dormant capacity to be invoked. Such practice is called sādhana-bhakti.

 

Every living entity under the spell of the material energy is held to be in an abnormal condition of madness. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, “Generally, the conditioned soul is mad because he is always engaged in activities which are the causes of bondage and suffering.” The spirit soul in his original condition is joyful, blissful, eternal and full of knowledge. Only by his implication in material activities has he become miserable, temporary and full of ignorance. This is due to vi-karma. Vi-karma means “actions which should not be done.” Therefore, we must practice sādhana-bhakti – which means to offer maṅgala-ārati (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here one after another. These practices will help one become cured of madness. As a man’s mental disease is cured by the directions of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of māyā, material illusion.

 

Nārada Muni mentions this sādhana-bhakti in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, first chapter, verse 32. He says there to King Yudhiṣṭhira, “My dear King, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa by any means.” That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the duty of the ācārya, the spiritual master, to find the means the ways and means for his disciple to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana-bhakti.

 

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us an authorized program for this purpose, centered around the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This chanting has so much power that it immediately attaches one to Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana-bhakti. Somehow or other, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. The great saint Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, although a responsible king, fixed his mind on Kṛṣṇa, and similarly anyone who tries to fix his mind in this way will very rapidly make progress in successfully reviving his original Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

 

Now this sādhana-bhakti, or practice of devotional service, may also be divided into two parts. The first part is called service according to regulative principles: one has to follow these different regulative principles by the order of the spiritual master or on the strength of authoritative scriptures, and there can be no question of refusal. That is called vaidhī, or regulated. One has to do it without argument. Another part of sādhana-bhakti is called rāgānugā. Rāgānugā refers to the point at which, by following the regulative principles, one becomes a little more attached to Kṛṣṇa and executes devotional service out of natural love. For example, a person engaged in devotional service may be ordered to rise early in the morning and offer ārati, which is a form of Deity worship. In the beginning, by the order of his spiritual master, one rises early in the morning and offers ārati,but then he develops real attachment. When he gets this attachment, he automatically tries to decorate the Deity and prepare different kinds of dresses and thinks of different plans to execute his devotional service nicely. Although it is within the category of practice, this offering of loving service is spontaneous. So the practice of devotional service, sādhana-bhakti, can be divided into two parts – namely, regulative and spontaneous.

 

Rūpa Gosvāmī defines the first part of devotional practice, or vaidhī-bhakti, as follows: “When there is no attachment or no spontaneous loving service to the Lord, and one is engaged in the service of the Lord simply out of obedience to the order of the spiritual master or in pursuance of the scriptures, such obligatory service is called vaidhī-bhakti.”

These principles of vaidhī-bhakti are also described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, first chapter, verse 5, where Śukadeva Gosvāmī instructs the dying Mahārāja Parīkṣit as to his course of action. Mahārāja Parīkṣit met Śukadeva Gosvāmī just a week before his death, and the king was perplexed as to what should be done before he was to pass on. Many other sages also arrived there, but no one could give him the proper direction. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, however, gave this direction to him as follows: “Dear King, if you want to be fearless in meeting your death next week (for actually everyone is afraid at the point of death), then you must immediately begin the process of hearing and chanting and remembering God.” If one can chant and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and always remember Lord Kṛṣṇa, then he is sure to become fearless of death, which may come at any moment.

 

In the statements of Śukadeva Gosvāmī it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Śukadeva recommends that one should always hear about Kṛṣṇa. He does not recommend that one hear and chant about the demigods. The Māyāvādīs, impersonalists say that one may chant any name, either that of Kṛṣṇa or those of the demigods, and the result will be the same. But actually, this is not a fact. According to the authorized version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, one has to hear and chant about Viṣṇu (Kṛṣṇa) only.

 

So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that in order to be fearless of death, one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means “the Supersoul of everyone.” Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as īśvara, the supreme controller who is situated in everyone’s heart. Therefore, if some way or other we become attached to Kṛṣṇa, He will make us free from all danger. In Bhagavad Gita it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. “Vanquished” means that after getting this human form of life, a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death and thus misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature.

 

Suppose one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death, involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant, or a beast, or a bird, or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī for reviving our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Kṛṣṇa very seriously and thus also become fearless of death. After death we do not know our destination, because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore, if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as affirmed in Bhagavad Gita.

 

In the Padma Purāṇa, also, the same process is advised. There it is said that one should always remember Lord Viṣṇu. This is called dhyāna, or meditation – always remembering Kṛṣṇa. It is said that one has to meditate with his mind fixed upon Viṣṇu. Padma Purāṇa recommends that one always fix his mind on the form of Viṣṇu by meditation and not forget Him at any moment. And this state of consciousness is called samādhi, or trance.

 

(aside:) Last paragraph will be read today.

 

We should always try to mold the activities of our lives in such a way that we constantly remember Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa, the supreme personality of the Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether one concentrates his mind on the four-handed form of Viṣṇu or on the form of two-handed Kṛṣṇa, it is the same. The Padma Purāṇa recommends somehow or other always think of Viṣṇu, without forgetting Him under any circumstances. Actually, this is the most basic of all regulative principles. For, when there is an order from a superior about doing something, there is simultaneously a prohibition. When the order is that one should always remember Kṛṣṇa, the prohibition is that one should never forget Him. Within this simple order and prohibition, all regulative principles are found complete.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

 

vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau

 

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam

paramānanda-mādhavam

śrī caitanyam isvaram

 

(aside:) So, tonight was announced as the ista-gosti. Ista Gosti is when this kind of free for all. All those funny questions that coming up in the Bhagavatam that are supposed to be asked here (laughing), can be asked. And we weren’t having 6 to 7 but we had a late start, but I don’t think with the end of it went till 8, we don’t strictly end out at 8, everyone got to get  till at 8.30 else of way then we got to state here. So, anyone has any questions? Balabhadra Bhattacharya Das Adhikari is clinging off the wall. (laughing)

 

Devotee: [1] Sometimes devotees have to adjust their minds exceptional. Following instruction of the spiritual master and when they find themselves follow the instructions of the presidents, GBC or the temple commanders or senior devotees. So how can they help instructing to help devotee understand circumstances the Spiritual Master as always have the commandments as they woke up, so how can they help before the instruction’s to help a devotee and understand the circumstances. How by following you know the authorities of following the personalities as same as following the spiritual master. Of Course they they ask, this may not be the same if someone may be giving the wrong instructions though as the guru as instructed.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Well, it’s different, different categories of instructions. There is being given service, Srila Prabhupada instituted the system that temple presidents are in a kind of a broader sense the GBC’s allover. They don’t often have a direct contact so much with the devotees in terms of giving out services although sometimes they do. Prabupada instituted that they would be giving out the services for the devotees. And many times, devotees who wanna come to see Prabhupada but if they want to discuss about philosophy that the door was open, in fact if some heard some philosophy from another temple President or GBC or any leader had some doubt they could always come and ask Prabhupada about the philosophy and then Srila Prabhpada would give the philosophical answer. But if somebody came only to discuss about a service then immediately Prabhupada would cut it more often say that ‘I can’t deal with your service, you have to talk with your temple president. If he can’t deal with it talk to the GBC’ like that. The maximum he would deal with it is transferring  somebody from one, somebody said I can’t work with this authority, I want a new authority then he would transfer the devotee from one temple or one authority to another.

 

We have a person with the chronic in change, I remember the one devotee who mentioned his name is protected himself (laughing). He got a letter from Srila Prabhupada saying here again you would like to change the temple, but this is about you know, 10^th time or something 8^th time whatever. So every temple you go to you say that the  authority is not good, temple is not good, you know, you don’t want to be there. So since every temple you go to you have the same problem maybe you should look to yourself (laughing), that maybe you have a problem in your own consciousness. Because how can every temple and every authority be bad. I know may be once  some personality conflicts and he was to be bad like that he was in like chronic and then the devotee started to introspect and find that he never had a good attitude. And it was that attitude which was like a stumbling block and him integrating in any temple. Wasn’t really changing the temple will make any difference. So in that regard point is that a temple president can’t give us any instructions that goes against Sadhu, Shastra and Guru.

 

(devotee:) But he’s supposed to just, supposed to give service

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Prabhupada hope that devotees will cooperate carrying out the service and some one had a real problem doing a particular service they kind of go up and change the commander and try to say I had any difficulty doing the service or like that. And then in some cases Prabhupada would intervene and say alright, let the devotee do some other service. But even in my case, I was a temple president and then I abdicated the temple presidents here for practical reasons and offered it to Jagadish prabhu that time he was married to Lakshmi [2] in Toronto. But then I became the treasurer and I found that to be a treasurer I have to be a president for 2 years or less. It’s kind of like boring to me, I wrote to Prabhupada because it was beyond the scope of, because that time we had no GBC so I have to write to Prabhupada but mention that later that whatever I had, I read to the GBC member. I wrote to Prabhupada and said that I feel bored and I don’t feel engage, but if you want me to do this service I’m prepared to continue doing it but if there is another service you’d rather have me do I would be prepared to do that also. Then he wrote back, it said go to Slovenia (laughing). See, but my desire was I was to increase my service to him, I successful manage the temple president to be  the treasure was too early and was like doing my high school and Prabhupada gave me more than I do.

 

So, he went in the verse for about marriage Bhagavatam 7th Canto how should one have the consciousness, I’m serving the Supreme personality of Godhead through the guru, through my husband, through my master, then that way they can be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the temple president says go or not break something which is completely against the ISKCON laws, because we are not supposed to break any criminal laws and that there is something against our principle and obviously. some thing that is deal with we will refused to do and we will report to do to the GBC member to the temple presidents to please go out on sankirtan, please go out and do the Harinama and please watch the dysfunctional that will do it then all you do it and then it has to be something that the discipline of others and nothing more than that.

 

(Devotee:)  So the discipline of others probacle of due to the presence of GBC or other. Now we see that many GBC are also gurus. So, the system that Prabhupada being the Spiritual master as far as service you said even tell them to be GBC. Now the point is GBC is against themselves so those because they will little GBC for. And is that best practice that the as far as service and practical management appears and things like that they should go to the spiritual master or they should to temple president

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: 

(inaudible 19:00)[3]  But the temple president's responsibility specifically is to give service to everyone. Of course overall he has a general responsibility is to see that everyone is Kṛṣṇa Consciousness attending temple programs plus administrative responsibility to see that the temple bills and that  mortgages are paid and services [4] . But in terms of, we’re just talking about in relation to the devotees his responsibility to see that devotees are Kṛṣṇa Consciousness attending the temple in spiritual programs and are otherwise engaged in devotional service. So, the devotee is having difficulty with the particular service and then it is discussing with the temple president and the temple president is not able to somehow eradicate their doubts or solve their problems or whatever, then one can go to report the GBC regarding service matters. In many places the local GBC is not necessary, most places are not necessarily, the Guru of the local devotees and in some cases there are local GBC may also be a local guru. So, this kind of two functions, if for instance say I have a disciple in a place where I’m not the GBC just an another zone and they have problem with their service that then I will advice then to discuss with the local GBC. if they’re having a spiritual problem, if they’re having a problem with doubts in the philosophy but they gone to other add a loose and somehow they’re still in a some kind of unhappy situation then I would either personally discuss with the local authorities and work out some kind of program for that disciple in the case where I’m not GBC somewhere.

 

And when one of the, a devotee having some problem then in one sense this is the advantage that it’s easier for me to take the devotee and ship from one temple to another since I’m also administrative authority over the different temples. On the other hand is one last, one last one he may appeal your case to temple president, GBC. Still, so that the ISKCON law that no Guru will take the disciple whimsically or without any reason unless that it is a severe spiritual crisis, life and death kind of circumstances that guru is not supposed to pull the disciple from the temple rather deploy in his zone and that. Within my zone generally the temples we work together close together and the devotees having some problem, we work of trade or in the long run we will equals of one temple had a devotee of problem with someone from say New Orleans to here, year down the road someone here doesn’t get along so well,  so we ship to New Orleans and si kind of in the long run things work out. So, I can still poke him and always see directly. For if say mataji will see on them, they have to go through local authorities, and but the guru is there in some case of some problem we can see, we can talk to the local leader. But specifically he is, his main thing is to deal with the spiritual problems of the devotee, to spread preaching. And depends on in some, each gurus involve in different ways. I personally go, I have a disciple in Finland, you know and I give a talk to the temple president, what service they are do and they write to me that you know, one couples is like friendly, work for Kṛṣṇa with corporations and they do sankirtan devotees. Something now the Sankrtan is going and sankirtan things like that.

 

(aside:) You want to go? (laughing) Hare Kṛṣṇa !

 

(Devotee:) (inaudible 22:58)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

(aside:) Z Zinnat. Did I answer your question? Madhu Pandit is a temple president, what’s his, he is some practical. (laughing) These are some theory or these are actually work like that (laughing)

 

(Devotee:) In Bangalore temple GBC and guru is the same, so how lean are problems.

This question was sometimes difficult for devotees, they listen to the spiritual master and or sometimes they listen to temple president or devotees of the temple. how can devotees see and actually see in situation like that. (inaudible 23:45) (laughing)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Where as one, it’s interesting and also reminded me that, I always remind me that Prabhupada said that some people come and say ‘Prabhupada I follow you but I can’t follow anybody else.’ (laughing) And then Prabhupada thought, you know this is kind of a little burden, what sometime he went further and say, well I accept you but I don’t accept ISKCON, I don’t like the organization. Then Prabhupada said well ISKCON is like my body and you can’t see it separate from me. So preaching and cooperative movement that I made, we get to point where that’s like people come and say I only follow god. Then in a fact that they don’t follow anybody so it’s difficult that we have to creating a kind of personal psychology which is so impractical that make little effort to to serve Kṛṣṇa and become Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. You ask any questions ?   

 

(Devotee:) Generally like in India they have to listen to the authority other than guru. Then they want to see that the authorities is leading a strict spiritual life or maintaining the standard of simple living you know and somehow they have to command respect from the devotees because ultimately everyone is coming forward in devotional service. So, if they are forced to demanded something naturally they will revert, so the leaders responsibility, the greatest responsibility is to command the respect by his own activities, I am very serious in on going activities and then I see that there shouldn’t be any difficulty in seeing any other difficulties. That’s their greatest past for the leader, it's not more than that, at least in Bangalore temple I see that, I spend most of the time in the seeing that devotees are taken care of I feel that sometimes the realizations that the temple president job grossly it may not, some collectors may think that president is not collecting something or not doing something directly so his main job is more like a cowherd or a shepherd who was with the sheep, they go for (laughing) You walk with them that’s a service, if somebody didn’t do the service they all go straight, but simply walking with them and it may appear they are not doing anything. (laughing) But actually there is my time there it’s  to get the attention they need and sacrifice the attention on all the devotees and so that’s a big job so the devotees will naturally respect the authorities and they will see their attention and see that the devotees problems and that is something.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

I know, I know. a lot of times people don’t realise what is to be the temple president. I remember that there was one devotee is always complained about the temple president and everything so  then GBC made him the temple president. Two days later GBC came back about 2 days, 3 days GBC later he came back and he is strangling at GBC and saying that how can you do this to me! (laughing) Everybody is coming to me and saying where is the soap and where is the this and that. Everyone is complaining. You know he was one of the big complainers and when he was in the seat then he had to get it so then you know and some people can take it and you know some people can take it, you know its hardly to take it. He resigned in a very unusual way that they saved the GBC. Yes!

 

(Devotee:) What happens in the case that if the temple president is not acting accordingly to his principal as a leader?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Should we report to the local GBC?

 

(Devotee:) What if he is biased? Or want us something. That was not his attitude or some or certain action

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: I don’t want to talk about the attitude or if the temple president is not functioning as probably situated as that as if somebody is breaking the 4 regulative principles they are grossly negative and attending the spiritual programmes or something you should be reported.

 

(Devotee:) what should I report? Why

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: you should report it.

 

Devotee: why should I never report ? Why ?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Ha? Why shouldn’t you reported? We are trying to help people . Some of them have the spiritual problem that should be  important to the local person but  sometimes someone may not like a person. Or may not the way he deals with. May not like the attitude. May not like you know. Some people may be am glad and some are very quiet. Some are different types of people so. Some people may have a nature which does not does not really mix with what you. You may particular like with the people nature. You think a person should be more a person may be where the sadhu or saintly person is may be little bit different right. The spiritual person shouldn’t be that person who may not be fit into the ideal picture. You accept the person as a guru or something. That doesn’t you may not even fit in to the temple. But doesn’t mean that person shouldn’t stop doing devotional service or cannot he may be respected as many people as a leader and may be able to function as a leader at a particular level, then there also like some people are like there is different places of the world. I know certain places of the world you put a blind unfold such a shortage of leaders that you know, before you read a people you make it some of the somewhere else may be in Africa or South America or some parts of mainly the biggest parts some parts of Asia I don’t know. You might get a situation where there’s just no leaders around. There is no leaders people were people and so sometimes you put in people that, maybe you put in other places that people don’t want to work in those places but you know the temple president is too far of is really breaking principles or something not making an effort to correct himself then obviously we can’t keep such a person in a position over devotees because you are making decisions which are not proper.

 

(Devotee:) We have dynamics over society today that management over cities, zoom or relation between the disciples or God brothers and or the fact that GBC thinks the I can't figure it out that I mean that no like that domestic figure it out like testing or going on with a system which we hope that Kṛṣṇa will bless it somehow it will be understand that the same amount of spiritual masters are residing in you and see that our young managers are working with you and certain and how  here is the disciples are management and in management that was very excited was working with of obstacles so that there is not brought into or engaging the disciples the holes or any of that so kind of interest of serious that many GBC members are resigned the GBC positions in traditions or this combo continue for long so that there is no mature of recycles on day to day basis so that , the quote that spiritual master is designing absorbing or take the side and will go and every one will go around and round with guru advise. For example,  and you know the guru says it is certain responsibilities of Prabhupada. The disciples  make this  all get you around and you take the guru into the nation and blessing that the guru around so I still accomplish that when I.  My question is there are some cases that devotees are throwing the authorities that is not giving a fear you know fair in share or fair guidance in spiritual life identified and

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Hope this will going to end up with a question. (laughing)

 

(Devotee:) yeah, so you may complained that sometimes the leader may take the guru and maintains the position of guru may take the decision of the Guru make the spiritual master doesn’t want to do that and the spiritual master is you are going to do that and guru. Everybody is doing that in his own ways of doing in certain things and certain particular kind of opinion about that

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Oh, that’s why you can always ask the guru. In fact, what was the book I discussed with the translator of GBC. In fact Jiva Goswami, glad to make the paper for taking shelter of the guru, there were several books that uses the reference for the guru. More specifically it says that anyone who is Vaishnava or siksha guru whatever they say to you then later on you should check with your Diksha guru and just confirm that it’s what they are telling is proper understanding. Because everyone has the responsibility for Kṛṣṇa to serve to their diksha guru and once I just check with that it comes with a philosophical instruction that is then live for it's not something new it’s something that and that’s why we have to wait hundreds and thousands and thousands of years. Before they discuss with the siksha gurus and when vaishnavas and you know the instructions are as title of temple presidents the reason why they are not have temple presidents, the leaders are vaishnavas and older vaishnavas take that on younger vaishnava over on time for the and as the older vaishnava  you listen and you have take the value but then according to the previous acharya’s think you have a greatness to solve and check with your guru and make sure it is ideal and get it here and then we accept the spiritual master and when I was sitting in the hospital in Spain listening to the Nectar of devotion tapes and tape number 15. No matter how many times I say put on Nectar of devotion tape. Whoever put tape number there is a whole I always put this tape it is always putting in tape number 15. (laughing)

Even at many times I said you know I heard that one but somehow I always tape number 15 so I have to just surrender must be heard some instructions I had to hear again and again. (laughing)

 

And Prabhupada made a point there that of course he is so many times he has said exactly, at one point he said that how we have to accept a guru and he says, in these very simple words. Infact I had framed it out and write in a notebook somewhere. He says accepting a guru means that you a person that you can surrender to fully in your service to Kṛṣṇa ah, link with Kṛṣṇa. That’s the qualification that who have right now accept his my guru and prabhupada says I was just a question how to surrender? fully! Because, then he explains whatever he instructs that he is supposed to do, he is the final word in the spiritual life. So when someone accepts a guru on that level accepts a guru, so then whatever instructions to vaishnava it’s clear! So hat next away he is going to get a instruction, we have to learn from the guru whatever he has to teach to us.

 

(Devotee:) Prabhupada is state an example that in bhagavatam it is important to get in to the ... in my mind it is saying and I get back to you and you know that’s not true I also know this is all I know and now I go back to you and communicate with Him and I am using my I can use a guru and he can use a guru. We both like Prabhupada once tried therefore a big preaching here so I know

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: That's always over service, generally over service it’s not somewhere we should jam all works. It’s always some major thing like someone saying to do something or just completely off the world or something major philosophical deviation that sastras worked against the principles. Generally I know many temple presidents order someone, you must do that and they preach, they encourage and try to encourage other devotees in service and do particular work and that do as the part of job description and encourage some one that in particular service they may have idea that this devotee can do that service and all, and particular description of order and you must do this and I think devotees misses the any work that given (laughing). Even as a guru when we have to order someone, we have to discuss with him and find out what they’re capable of doing and accordingly we give them instruction based on what capabilities and possibilities there are. Most of the presidents are very happy everybody just put in up for the 60 or some particular, even 20, some hours of service every week responsible for the temple. There are some presidents are given the temple property, they don’t really pull their way and it’s kind of a burden for the other devotees and for the whole congregation. Because especially in this temple where it’s mainly focused on the book distribution and they’re trying to stay away from any form of fundraising which is the behind the inclined procedure and the collection procedure they basically distribute books. So the margin of donations on books is not as much as you sold hair stickers, ets.

 

So they need devotees to go out and distribute books. Actually distributing books is not something that Prabhupada didn’t appreciate, he really appreciated quite a bit, everybody appreciated it. But if someone is not capable of doing that service, someone may cook, service the deities, do some service. Say if you get into situation when the bottom line devotee is practically aware of the service. So every service is offered that they say that jammed up and says that my guru says that you know, but ultimately you have to do some service for Kṛṣṇa if we want to practice sadhana bhakti else we're gonna be serving Maya you’ll be doing karma. So when I am here occasionally devotees come and we work things out but quite often I find that the devotees do have the problems and they want to sit down together with me and the temple president and work it out even they weren’t my disciples. So, even doubts in the work, why not, why not work it out, why not find a solution. But sometimes even you know something is greed upon it and subsequently it’s not problems. Yeah some devotees have difficulty in finding a service they can do, maybe it’s a question of surrender. Theoretically they are right and practically when they are doing it they must be not able to do it. We have to get off and mental platform and you know what ever they are doing service for Kṛṣṇa, like depositing money in the bank, it’s spiritually that we are giving a deposit into the fixed deposits. Whenever spacing out we’re not achieving anything materially or spiritually. It’s two sides, two extremes that false ego will place in to it on the other hand may be some around battles around the guru too much about that really own personal opinion I know that happens some time. Someone may think why Kṛṣṇa is doing this?

that the problem is the guru want to doing that and all serving and if you doing that too much it’s called oath right. Pretty soon they weight when you really mean it the guru know that and say it and that personal think will always say and obviously the guru will think ours is using the achieves it and obviously everyone wants to impress guru not only knows that. I know that even in some cases man in this temple and some cases that people are told well I think the guru once he is marrying some person like that even I count it. We are not working that definitely it’s a misuse a major defect is that wheater to check it out and majorly issues that welcome back

 

(Devotee:) when someone have taken instructions from the lecture and with diksha

His Holiness Jayapatākā swami : if you have permission of guru, if the diksha says accept what ever he says as I am saying we have the faith in the siksha guru and the permission of diksha guru even the siksha guru is not present in that might be accept that you can accept the diksha guru and that well and it’s not like today he is my siksha guru and had this one. And such in a factor that this gives and query one rather was not good for you

 

(Devotee:) you know that it was not so young 18 or 20 years of age. Physiological speaking we know that the age was actually we so committed to the project or temple or so what nature so said the nature and colleague (28:17)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: probably in this people is difficulty to make commitment or these devotees are committed to period of time one year two year period time and during that time when we are serving we should serve. Question is devotional service is an opportunity to turn and go back to Kṛṣṇa so the more we can practice and the  mind the intelligence and the body and that makes what the Kṛṣṇa is enhanced. So the service is via media that the hand to achieve to Him. It’s different the absolute is that I know he look for sanyasi who I have rehearsed kind of projects that is, with rehearsed sanyasis are recovered the even travel around even prabhupada brings around the sanyasi each come here what service and what project you are going to be in one year and as. a sanyasi you have opportunity to change next year and same project for an year whole. But this year we have to commit and just a year to change one to next. And what is feet for brahmacharis and generally we have stay committed to particular project especially to some thing to it and become devotees and some at some changes should be for changes and for positive services for else. In my case I have lifelong commitment to mayapur and could thats

 

(Devotee:) some service and could get all the time you know what years of prayer (in audible)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: well it’s about local president it could approach the GBC and some has and some has discussed with that what to do.

 

(Devotee:) inaudible. He is asked to do ea

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: you know there is a need to do particular service and you know it particularly need to do that even though you don’t need to do that service. Inaudible (laughing)

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: hope that you need to surrender. I was offered to do particular service even though seem like that the one that no one wants to do that and you know I want to do either. I finally given the service that I need to do mayapur service that. I wrote to prabhupada that is something am on doing the service that given by the gurus. In other I found guilty I finally like the service I given i liked and now plenty of challenge and I was one of the challenge that bored up and now where is it explain. I couldn’t even see the service where it is going to end and unlimited expansion and I was feeling guilty that. So now I go back to that, that’s very fortunate. Yes

 

(Devotee:) you also said

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Now it is open that stack particular task and now. You can anything

 

(Devotee:) what do you ask the most important thing that spiritual guru

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: that’s a right good question. A very simple question and that since it’s deserves a very good answer. Mainly today we read a before you come we read a 2 pages from Nectar of devotion while discussed about the devotional service, and there a practice of devotional service and then some that I eventually mention the remembrance of god and Kṛṣṇa will forget it and we do that who else is contained with it and the problem is that for spiritual life we need to be Kṛṣṇa consciousness for god consciousness and to engage in that to do that every thing is heard that the whole reason is with in that you brought has that chanting , hearing and eating prasadam is all contained because through this process we all can contain by Kṛṣṇa and if we do that we don’t have to forgot Kṛṣṇa. That’s some thing that we should apply in the beginning of spiritual life to the end. If we break it down to more details then we different details will apply to the beginner and some details will apply to some beginner, intermediate stage or advanced stage. But being consciousness in Kṛṣṇa is something that all felt beginning to the end all the time. That’s what it is missing and worse than this god consciousness. The consciousness should be unbroken unconsciousness which is in the mood of service favourable to follow which are somewhere more become more and more and in the loving wood in the different stages that would follow certain factors. The practices like become baby is that by practicing that baby is already capacity to walk. You can teach tree have to walk or something. You know there is a capacity with in you know the capacity of loving Kṛṣṇa. But just in the beginning we have like started off and certain practices to follow and then that develop to point where we come spontaneous and we develop ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa and finally that becomes we have liberated and pure love for Kṛṣṇa. Any questions?

 

(Devotee:) Hmm, There is one I was wondering. you said Sunday that every thing that in the bible is in the Bhagavad Gita and you said and tell me that it was in Bhagavad Gita

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: one of our devotees, its just the truth in the life is no one can get chant 14-6. Ah one of our devotees said it that there is a lot of inter Kṛṣṇa- Christian consciousness studies, Prabhupada has said and recently sent me a book to a my mother that a dialogue we had with, ah what is that Priest ? What’s the denomination ? presciki . Ha ?

 

(Devotee:) inaudible

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: he thought that the particular verse is in the Hebrew and what ever he is listening.  That Jesus when he spoken like lot of these things are in to this translation.there are always upgraded in to more modern and more in to the modernization that in to change the His most recent publication in to her and her and Steven Rosen said to that. I didn’t have a chance to look in to that. I mean he is like studies a lot and buy more I did have previous book he had and he broke down this in to this particular verse and ah in to there that Jesus has said that way that he has come through me to reach the father and many languages in Asia couldn’t the Hebrew and in India they have many languages and so there are different tenses so the first is like present tense like he say that know you if you want to go to newyork you have to go through with me and that there are no more flights that. When he was speaking he was speaking in present tense and the father am the way. But according to vedas there is a philosophy that Guru is the means that disciple can get to god. So here Jesus is the guru he taught that he tells the disciples he is the person he is talking to. He is the spiritual person of that time. He is the acharya or spiritual master. This time he wants to get to Prabhupada and that to me. So that they are contradicting in the Veda’s that they are agreeing that time and the place Jesus was the one to get through that and yet, before Jesus came on to earth there were other spiritual masters and after that there will be a other spiritual masters. That the teachings of a spiritual masters and yet with the time place and circumstances we have to teach to particular people by capacity. Even that word Jesus had known that you told so much about this world and you promised the kingdom of your father and heaven and then Jesus required after little thinking even I tell you about this world you are not able to understand. How you are able to understand that world. In other words that Jesus has felt that the disciples are not capable of understand the all the teachings he has given. Was that he didn’t know the thing about god. He knew but he didn’t impact or you know for his own reasons that they are not able to understand. So we have a problem also in Vedic situations that some times we have different gurus and they have to teach you 100 different ways and people that they are not philosophical so they didn’t even very simple things to chant the name of god and sit here and meditate on him. Then you will get a situation like Kṛṣṇa where he was speaking to Arjuna who was practically the crown prince of the world. He was the emperor of the whole world of that time. His elder brother was the emperor, he was next in line and he was incredibly intelligent person. He was well versed in all philosophy and art and music and he was like practically the best human being in the planet that time and the best person in the very developed culture. So the discussion happened between Kṛṣṇa and him was it like by the very nature that whose discussing the most profound lucid type of discussion. So that the guru can have more capacity so that he can only teachings up to the capacity of the followers and that so I understand that this particular verse is that Jesus was a bonafide guru. He was the means of that particular time of reach but similarly he passed the first commandment of god head there. I mean I had a discussion with a priest in India a catholic priest and I was stressing this point that the priest come out and said Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches us how to love god and he just said no and second time he says love of god. He didn’t really want to hear about anything to love god and love man to serve the people. He was in politics, he was in the social group. He didn’t want to hear any thing about directly loving god or what person of god or he just source struct the instructions of that and the second is same as just one and he was on the second that’s mainly about the Christianity today and his add, and a few only that has mainly focusing on the god mainly information of god.

 

(Devotee:) you said that love god and you said that

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: A priest in India. A catholic priest visited Mayapur in India and visited me. We have lot of priests in India will come to our temple. Because we are biggest temple in India and not in particular reason and we all contain every one and so, I have all bishops and brothers and everyone is like friends that come by and will come by. Mother Teresa, sister Teresa and her nuns are also visitors. We have particular that he was corolla and he was archeologist write books and some things so we have something on discussion, but sometimes in India they want things more on different. They don’t want to but here in west they are looking for how to join religion. How to risk the things on religion, joined as a catholic and there is little bit of a desire that I don’t know and the south there are baptist and the Methodist, I don’t know and they are examine that they are kind of unified and the west. You know people in India some how they are politicized even if there is you know with a priest they thick I like as a difference. So how there is a unity basically Kṛṣṇa consciousness is focusing on is the first commandment and the love for wish to develop godhead is Jesus said exactly what the old practices has said but he is the practice of devotion service but the system is a way to develop with the god. The problem is people don’t have to knowledge of understanding the what god is and much easier to understand that any of these Kṛṣṇa says in the 12th chapter of Bhagavad Gita says that only that you can simply remember and focus on the consciousness of the, if we can’t do that then serve by a practice and by a regulation. By regular practice you will develop love for me. If you can’t do that then work for me. Do some work, some service in the temple like sweeping and coming, drop out the boxes, paid there or do some kind of service. If you can’t do that then serve others. Then serve other people so by serving other people will eventually serve god. So these are in the 12 chapter of Bhagavad Gita but Kṛṣṇa says so the best thing is that whatever Jesus did, whatever he did, His intention was to serve god. That’s my belief.

 

(Devotee:) So what’s that a command love god and what the name itself

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Since the father is that Kṛṣṇa says serve me, then you can’t do that you can serve the A,B,C categories like …. service, regular service, or atleast offer some part service and then serve others. That am sayings that the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita, they are spread out and he brought the first commandment in the first 3 sections and second one also there and the same teachings are there. Kṛṣṇa gives more explain

 

(Devotee:) Like these are in home and I serve them all friends, you know every day but they are not installed is that the( inaudible 11:58). You know, I offer to Kṛṣṇa what ever I do. all my day and now I installed (inaudible 11:48). It is that am asking is it a service to Kṛṣṇa?

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: you have te picture of anand

 

(Devotee:) in audible

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Kṛṣṇa is a substance

 

(Devotee:) He has a spiritual view and probably not a substance. (Inaudible )

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: That’s, there is a difference in deities and the deity in the picture form or in these other forms also bonafide. The difference is that the installed deity says that formally many kinds of sacrifices are requested. Kṛṣṇa that personally come and remain there permanently and then we the devotees commit themselves to properly Kṛṣṇa in the deity form so the regular offering and taking care,so it’s a very big commitment. So it’s naturally some kind of commitment in the house. It’s pretty common that the people don’t install the  deities in the house. But if you offer the prasadam to Kṛṣṇa in the form of picture of the deity so  the prasadam will offered to Kṛṣṇa in the bhavadana and the mantra to guru parampara and to Kṛṣṇa so he accepts, so our devotees and sankeertanas they don’t carry deities with them. They carry pictures with them.

 

(Devotee:) Was it necessary to have deities like why can’t we just imagine the god in whatever form you know, you choose whatever you have with you

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami : The point is god has a particular form. He has a specific form that we have to meditate on with the eternal form then that’s much better purified. The idea that everything is god that agree the manism or Sanskrit it’s advaitism. And the sovereignty we find that, that’s not an accurate philosophy. Promising spiritual masters, there explain that it’s basically two things. There is god and everything is one with god at the same time everything is different. Simultaneously one with different that once he is expanded himself to energies. Those energies have eternal existence. They don’t seems like to existence, at the same time since they come from Him, they are not different from Him. At the same time it’s difficult to seem that how it’s possible. Everything is simultaneously nothing but godhead at the same time there is another level there is a difference between directly and His energies, so that understanding one example is often sided is that the sun that the sun lightened in the anticipated. You can’t think of the sun as without sunlight as they are inseparable. But, if the sunshine’s on the window and comes in to my room. I will say that the sunlight is in the room and often says there is a sun glow in my room. Obviously there is a sun glow you got close you  will burn to crisp and there don’t do any way. (laughing)

So with the connection with the sun is here but there is a difference and at the same time there are wonders. And as the same way once we says that god is in this table with in my heart he is in every atom and he is everywhere. At the same time the table isn’t god although it’s a energy is god, this was exhibited by Prahalad where he was attacked by his father where he was a atheist and he says where god is every where. Where god is in this kalam and then? he says Yes! He is everywhere in this building then he smashed the column of the building and says I smashed our god. Now am going to kill you, tell Him to protect you and out of nowhere the column becomes Narasimha dev form of Kṛṣṇa and protects Prahalad. So, sometimes Kṛṣṇa reveals that he is present everywhere. He can’t come out from any atom or anywhere that’s rare. That’s just we don’t imagine something that would be idolatry to just imagining something than worshiping. So just take that all and in the scripture. Even in the Bible that man is man and god is an art. It shows that the perfect figure. Gods figure, His proportion is completely perfect so that make a deal that, in it gives every human being an art and propest to it. It is not exactly a radon but god had proposed is 100% but the art it articulates. You study, you diagram that gods this finger to this is one unit and god that unit. This finger to elbow is two. Human beings are pretty close if you put two of those and but here it comes more of it same that exactly (aside devotees laughing) . More or less. So they have whole you know that’s because we have whole group of artists we make 100’s of clay novels and we make posters and we make brass cast from this for exhibits in mayapur. So they have some of these in texts that actually shows the oceans that you make the deity of Kṛṣṇa and proportions of you make the deity of Radha and the proportions, so it’s like a whole science and you make the deity obviously Kṛṣṇa is much more beautiful than a piece of marble or piece of stone. He is a meadow but He gives the opportunity to a devotee to swain that we had installation here that part of the thing explains that. When you do the thing this make them the statue, that’s called the Bimba or whatever the reflection. Then it’s not consider that the worship of a deity. It’s like the reflection, if you saw the reflection so the reflection is Kṛṣṇa . And then that Bimba uninstall the deity and first of all purify it and worship the different ways to mantras to purify to become ready to request Kṛṣṇa come and present in it. So He can be present everywhere, He is in everywhere, every atom so especially a deity is made according to the description in the scriptures and then once he won’t come for any body asking it but a guru or a vaishnava or a pure vaishnava, requests and it’s done according to the Vedic system then He can out of his own sweet will He can personally in present in to the deity, and then actually you said worshipping the deity the devotees should feel that the Kṛṣṇa is present. And then we have deities in mayapur, jagannath deities are 500 years old and these deities are very active and some deities are reciprocate with the devotees very quickly and others aren’t. but these deities are very famous to the extent that. One time a gurukul students came to see the deity and there is no electricity is there at that time and this is may be 50 years ago. We had come to see the deity and there was little ghee light like a candle which is burned out and immediately but what they do that is they take a cotton a cloth they put in a pan or oil and they put out. But the oil run out this coming down to little flicker. So the students came and the light went out and then what I start saying is they all says, there is no deity here this is some false propaganda some. They made some negative cynical statements and they walked away and all of a sudden a big flame was shout from a ghee wick and the pujari was sitting there and he shouted boys can you come back quickly here and they came back and just take a look and they see the jagannath and they were like Oh! This deity of Kṛṣṇa and I just noticed the flame of it there is no ghee and there is a big flame coming out of it. Wow ! And they start pulling their ears and the (laughing) I am sorry! I am doubted you (laughing). As the deity was performed many miracles like happen and then sometimes there was like a coincidence and recently there was fixing up the temple and some thieves came on night and stole 15 bags of cement and then somehow the same night there was another part of village there was some in the night and something. So the police was called and they made a raise that searching house to house for the for the. Ha ? The night that the person was accused for many things so that it just, the mahamuddin attack and the police was mahamuddin and he came across 15 bags of cement in the house and then looking for the other thief. Then he said and he understands that he stole from jagannath and then this, you are disgrace for the religion and then you stole from the temple and everything. In India they have in justice they don’t have the same you know you tie up with some things with your legs and hands you know, came over to all something and had said everything is exactly the same and later on after he released and everything and the person came back and said that please forgive me. I will never steal anything and he comes every month and pleads our milk it’s all kinds of jagannath pastimes. But many deities have that, every deity have its own different pastimes and devotees and some are more frequent than others but the reality in different ways. But even this temple deities have very special pastimes. Where Prabhupada came here and he is crying before the deities and he said  Nitai Gaura Chandra came here to the western world and they give the mercy and the devotees and whenever they chanted before the deities they really feel a lot of anyone who comes for the temple visiting from other temple they have powered on and they much happiness in chanting before these deities and they got loving mercy to the devotees. So that’s, although Kṛṣṇa is one and to install deity of  Kṛṣṇa is not different. But they have leela or vichitra. Leela means pastimes and vichitra means variegated pastimes. So name that some temples which are known as one temple known as Khira chora Gopinath. Where the deity stole, where he was offered a 9 pots of condensed milk. He stole one pot of condensed milk and put it behind Him. When pujari was not looking at Him. In the dream he told to pujari to give the pot to the great devotee Madavendra puri he was waiting at the altar.