19900103 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.13.13

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on January 03, 1999 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam Canto 3, Chapter 13, Text 13.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ
paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande
paramānanda-mādhavam
śrī caitanya īśvaraṁ
(Cc. Madhya 17.80)

Jayapatākā Swami: (Reads verse, translation with repetition and purport)

yeṣāṁ na tuṣṭo bhagavān
yajña-liṅgo janārdanaḥ
teṣāṁ śrāmo hy apārthāya
yad ātmā nādṛtaḥ svayam

(ŚB. 3.13.13)

Translation: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Janārdana [Lord Kṛṣṇa], is the form to accept all the results of sacrifice. If He is not satisfied, then one’s labor for advancement is futile. He is the ultimate Self, and therefore one who does not satisfy Him certainly neglects his own interests.

Purport: Brahmā is deputed as the supreme head of universal affairs, and he in his turn deputes Manu and others as charges d’affaires of the material manifestation, but the whole show is for the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahmā knows how to satisfy the Lord, and similarly persons engaged in the line of Brahmā’s plan of activities also know how to satisfy the Lord. The Lord is satisfied by the process of devotional service, consisting of the nine-fold process of hearing, chanting, etc. It is in one’s own sell-interest to execute prescribed devotional service, and anyone who neglects this process neglects his own self-interest. Everyone wants to satisfy his senses, but above the senses is the mind, above the mind is the intelligence, above the intelligence is the individual self, and above the individual self is the Super self. Above even the Super self is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu-tattva. The primeval Lord and the cause of all causes is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The complete process of perfectional service is to render service for the satisfaction of the transcendental senses of Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is known as Janārdana.

Thus, ends the Bhaktivedanta Swami purport and translation to the text 13, chapter 13, canto 3 of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam in the chapter entitled, 'the appearance of Lord Varāha.'

Jayapatākā Swami: The ultimate self is used here ātma-svayam - explained Bhagavān Janārdana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. People are concerned about their self-interest. But they to do misunderstanding what the self is, they are creating a situation for themselves whereby they don't actually serve their interests. Because someone identifies with the body, then he thinks that the bodily interest is his interest. To do bodily identification one may consider himself particular race, or particular nationality, or particular some type of external designation. And then create conflicts with other groupings of bodies. This creates problems in the world. One may commit sinful activities to satisfy the senses. So this idea that I am the senses, this is one type of self. By simply acting on the sense level, it’s like a small baby, they just want to eat, sleep and they are not able to see beyond the higher anything, because they just not developed in their consciousness.

So Prabhupāda explains that, the society may be so developed with big skyscrapers, jets and so many different things, but if the ultimate objective is to have all this so that people can only enjoy their senses, this like a vulture who flies very high, but their mind is always looking at the ground for dead corpses. The dead corpses is to eat their flesh. Although the vulture who went so high, his consciousness always on the lowest level. So, in the same way, if we have our consciousness simply with the end of sense gratification, even though there must be, might be so much development, ultimately this being used for something which is not in the highest of interest of the individual. It’s being used for something which even an animal can get that same kind of pleasure. So that's a sense identification is one level of self, beyond that is the mind, intelligence. So Prabhupāda mentioned all these.

Due to some mental or intellectual identification, one may consider himself a communist, or capitalist, or altruist, or holistic, different identification. And this may create conflicts with other, ultimately they had to leave this situation. We consider all the different self-identifications, how they actually create, they don't bring one to the ultimate happiness, they don't bring one to the ultimate perfection. They are not, because they are not the real self, they are the self for that one may be today communist, tomorrow I can be just like Eastern Europe they were communist, now they want to be democratic. So overnight they change. So we may be one thing today, tomorrow be something else. It's not a permanent self-interest.

They are working hard for the communist, and they found it wasn't in their interest, now their switching over capitalist, they may switch again to something else. And this way, this is not going to bring the solution in itself. Then you have capitalism, these problems. Here in America, we have capitalist system, maybe we don't have the problems that communist has. But here there are other problems there.

So when we go higher, then we find there is a self, so one works for the self-realization. But we find our self is just one individual soul, but the self is ultimately coming from somewhere, that is the supreme self, the super self. So we serve, try to serve our own individual self that doesn't help anyone else, and even if I'm trying to serve the spiritually like impersonal realization, one individually gets liberated, and then again we fall down from that position, because it's not natural to remain in an impersonal realization. We go the higher realization of serving the super soul, that's also a partial realization. Finally, when we come to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa and serve Him, Prabhupāda, gives the example from the Vedas, just like you water root of a tree, the whole tree is nourished. So, if you serve Kṛṣṇa, then everyone is benefited.

So, the complete process of perfectional service is to render service for the satisfaction of the transcendental senses of Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is known as Janārdana. He is the self of the self. Inside the body, there is the soul, along with the soul there is the super soul. Even inside the ātmā, the soul of the soul is Kṛṣṇa. So if we serve Kṛṣṇa actually He is the self of the self, He is the ultimate self, actually ultimately we are all coming from Kṛṣṇa. We don't have a separate interest from Kṛṣṇa. We simply think that we have a separate interest. Our real self-interest is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Māyā means to forget our connection with Kṛṣṇa. Real knowledge means to know our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. These are very basic things. But if you apply this, it's completely turning that everything around, compared to what is normally practiced.

Actually, the duty of the brāhmaṇas is to teach society the science. It is the duty of the heads of state government to see that the citizens are engaging in devotional service. So duty of the vaiśyas to finance and support the progRāmas for the citizens engaging in Kṛṣṇa worship. For the śūdras to assist. Actually the whole society is meant for being educated and engaged in the devotional service of Hṛṣīkeṣa who is the owner of the senses.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gives that system, the process, very simply how we can do that. Actually before, the great Brahmānas, they would engage and then they would have big sacrifices and people would come and see. But by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, everyone even a common person can become qualified to engage directly in devotional service. This is the special benediction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

When Lord Caitanya was travelling in South India, then at that time He would encourage everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. He went to one house of a brāhmaṇa. This brāhmaṇa from his whole life, he was chanting the name Rāma, Rāma. So when He got to that house, He took prasādam at his house, the brāhmaṇa, he wouldn't even talk unless that was absolute necessary. He would simply talk by saying Rāma. You want more prasādam Rāma Rāma? Rāma Rāma Rāma.  Whatever he would just indicate by saying Rāma. So, this way he was very much God conscious person.

Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed one day at his house, went on to see some holy places. And He had to come back the same way. So after some weeks or month, He came by the same place, that time He visited that brāhmaṇa again, He found that the brāhmaṇa was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.

So, Lord Caitanya was very surprised before he was chanting Rāma Rāma Rāma. Now he was chanting hare Kṛṣṇa what happened? So that brāhmaṇa explained that, actually I am a collector, in my life like to collect nectar of the glories of the holy name. I explained other places how in the west collections are very big thing, people collect art, coins, stamps so many things are collected. Even I saw when we were driving to Murāri Sevaka farm and at Tennessee welcome center, the world's largest collection of tin cans is in Tennessee. You can pay 2 dollars and 50 cents and see, every can had what time this is saved by this man. Many gun, knife, so many types of collections are there. So even a baseball cards are I think nowadays a very big thing. So but this brāhmaṇa, he was collecting verses on glories of the holy name. What a wonderful thing to collect!

You see transcendental collection! This is a recommended we collect nectar, like the nectar of the holy name we collect that, then we really have something valuable. So he explained that, he knew that, he quoted some verses from the different purāṇas and Vedas how the name of Rāma is ParaBrahmān. The name of Kṛṣṇa is also ParaBrahmān. He knew that both Kṛṣṇa and Rāma both the names were ParaBrahmān. He said that sahasranāma tattulyam rāma nāma varānane.

Lord Śiva once explained to Pārvatī that, if you chant one time the name of Rāma, it is equal to a thousand times the name of Visnu, but also know that there is another verse it says, if you chant one time the name of Kṛṣṇa, it is equal to three thousand names of Visnu. So that means Kṛṣṇa's name is 3 times more powerful than Rāma's nāma for uplifting. The number of puṇya, or the pious results one gets by chanting the name of Rāma, thousand times out of chanting the thousand times names of Visnu, chanting Kṛṣṇa's name is three thousand. So, I know this, but still all my life I was chanting the name of Rāma, Rāma was my ista-devatā. He was my worship able Deity. So that's why continue chanting the name of Rāma. Even though I wanted to chant Kṛṣṇa, but I was always attracted to chant the name of Rāma. However after seeing You and coming in Your association, now just suddenly the name of Kṛṣṇa filled my heart and my mind. Now I cannot stop chanting the name Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. *Devotees repeat* And this chanting because of Your presence so I think that actually You must be Kṛṣṇa Himself, otherwise How is that You could change me just by Your contact? He fell down and grabbed the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya and touched the Lotus Feet to his head.

Śrī Śrī Rādhā Rādhā-kāntā ki, Nitāi-Gaura Jagannātha, Baladeva, Subhadrā mahārāṇī ki jai.

Devotees: Jaya!

Jayapatākā Swami: And this way Lord Caitanya inspired the brāhmaṇa to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee. Of course, even when Lord Caitanya was travelling in south, one Buddhist He met and He preached, and He defeated the Buddhist. Now they became angry that they were defeated. So, the Buddhist thought that I can't defeat him by argument, by discussion, so that may kill him, feed him poison. So, he prepared some food, and put some poison, put some dirty thing in it, poison or something dirty meat, or some, something like poison, you can say. But contaminated thing to make Lord Caitanya fall down from His position.

As he was going to give this food, of course this is the one reason, why we don't take food cooked by non-devotees, because we never know what they do it, what they put in it. Actually, we travel, we sometime buy these juices and things, you don't even know what's in the juice, so we can't offer it, just say Śrī Viṣṇu Śrī Viṣṇu. What to do? In my previous āśrama, previous life, I had a friend who was working in some juice factory. The things that he used to do inside that juice is so tāmasika, cannot even express. Of course, it may be sterilized it somehow, but certainly the workers are really in the mode of ignorance. That's why it’s dangerous to take the food like that from non-devotees. Anyway this Buddhist priest and his disciples came and offered a big plate of food to Lord Caitanya. Of course, Lord Caitanya He was very strict, He would only take in the house of brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas. He wouldn't take His meal otherwise. But anyways He was coming up, all of a sudden a big bird came, grabbed the plate, and threw it up in the air. The plate flew up and then fell down on the head of the Buddhist monk, and he fell unconscious, then his disciples were there grabbing him saying, "Save our guru, save our guru." So then Lord Caitanya said, “Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in his ear”.

So they started to chant. So they got initiated by Lord Caitanya in a sense, and then they chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa in the ear of their Buddhist guru, so they became like initiating guru for the Buddhist in Hare Kṛṣṇa line, and this way then the Buddhist became conscious again, and he became purified. He became a devotee even after such a great offense.

So, this is the Lord Caitanya... He would purify even envious people and make them a devotee. We may not be able to make envious people devotees, sometimes they become. Generally, as a preacher we try to avoid envious people, and preach to the innocent people, associate with the devotees. Lord Caitanya was so powerful, He would even take envious people and make them into devotees That is the special potency. So sometimes devotees say, “How is it possible for me to be Kṛṣṇa conscious? This is such a very big thing. I am so fallen." But Lord Caitanya, He is the deliverer of the most fallen patita-pāvana gaura hari

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-prabhu dayā kara more
tomā vinā ke dayālu jagat-saṁsāre
patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra
mo sama patita prabhu nā pāibe āra

Actually, if we want to get the mercy of Lord Caitanya, we should present ourselves to Lord Caitanya as the most fallen of the fallen. And since He has come to deliver the most fallen, then we should request as Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura did to get delivered first. If we really consider our self most fallen, the worst candidate for being a devotee, then that's a very good qualification to get the mercy of Lord Caitanya. I am the worse candidate; therefore, I should get Your mercy first. This is the number one qualification to be a devotee is to be the most disqualified. The problem is, usually most disqualified people don't realize their disqualifications, so they don't want devotional service. But if you are disqualified, and you want devotional service, it’s a very good qualification. We simply have to recognize that we are disqualified, we are unqualified, and want to be blessed with devotional service, then we can get it.

This is special like this so many Christmas sales, now after Christmas clearance. Now is like after Kṛṣṇa appearance. Kṛṣṇa was here in Dvāpara-yuga. alright after Kṛṣṇa clearance, clear out the universe, send everyone back home back to Godhead. Clearance sale. So here is a good opportunity, otherwise we won't get such an opportunity for millions of years. There is a little retrieve after 400000 years, again we get, Satya-yuga begins, it becomes peaceful. We can get liberation, but love of Kṛṣṇa is difficult to get.

Kṛṣṇa gives love of Kṛṣṇa and then Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives it most easily. So Lord Caitanya only comes after Kṛṣṇa sometimes, not necessarily every time after Kṛṣṇa, but He comes after Kṛṣṇa. So even if He would come every... Kṛṣṇa comes only once in a day of Brahmā, which is, a day of Brahmā is 4 billion 3 hundred thousand million years plus a night. That means 8 billion 6 hundred thousand years we have to wait to get another chance like this. Of course, within these 10 thousand years, you have a chance, after that to get so easy opportunity, you have to wait 8 billion years. It's not like, oh I missed this Christmas sales, I'll wait until next Christmas and buy them again. If you miss this sale, then you have to wait 8 billion years to get love of Kṛṣṇa so easily, then why take such a, who is going to miss a such an opportunity. This is a rare bargain sale, so we should snap it up, otherwise...

That's why it is said of all the yugas this is the most... The Kali yuga when Lord Caitanya comes, it’s considered the king of the yugas, the best. So, we should take advantage of the opportunity that Lord Caitanya, Srīla Prabhupāda giving us, and also trying to help others. So if we want to serve Lord Caitanya what do we do, we take all kinds of difficulties only for the purpose for pleasing Lord Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased then our job, our activities are success. We may do so many things, but if Kṛṣṇa is not pleased then what is the success of it?

Sometimes devotees get bewildered and they think, I had to become a famous musician, or I had to become a famous rich business man, or I had to become a successful whatever the material thing is, and then with that I can actually serve Kṛṣṇa. But then he neglected devotional service, and independently they just try to do something as if they are going to give that to Kṛṣṇa later. And they usually get very much entangled, not realizing that actually everything is dependent on Kṛṣṇa, and the whole purpose of life is simply need to please Kṛṣṇa. And the natural course of our occupational duty if we achieve certain success, we should also use that for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise independently if we do even become a successor, Kṛṣṇa is not pleased if we are not able to serve Kṛṣṇa then what is the use? That is a little flickering situation that doesn't last. Prabhupāda, he made a comment I think when some politician got killed. So, their prominent was some time like a bubble in the ocean then it pop (sound) it pops and its gone.

Here Kṛṣṇa Lord Caitanya was talking to Rāmānanda Rāya that the devotee of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, the devotee, they are the real important people, the VIPs, because they are very important in Kṛṣṇa 's eyes then they are important. They are having some universal importance, what they do is affecting the welfare of the whole universe. Otherwise someone does something is no permanent effect, simply moving the energy a little bit. But the devotee is liberating so many souls, bringing them to the spiritual platform. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa has said that, of all the persons in the universe the devotee who is spreading this message, teaching the Bhagavad-gītā message to others is the dear most. No one in their level, dearer than he is.

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

*Devotees repeat*

So this is in our interest to serve Kṛṣṇa, because He is the ultimate self. If we serve Kṛṣṇa we serve ourselves. It’s the well selfless way to be selfish. Selfless way to be self-serving you serve yourself by serving the Supreme self, by serving the Supreme self we are also serving everyone. So there is no contradiction. Otherwise, a selfish person means people think, oh! he is simply thinking about himself. But by serving Kṛṣṇa, you are simultaneously serving yourself in the best way, and then you are helping everyone else. So you are just serving the self of everyone. So it is not only that my ultimate self is Kṛṣṇa, your ultimate self, her ultimate self, his ultimate self, every body's ultimate self is Kṛṣṇa. So if we serve Kṛṣṇa, we are serving the ultimate self of everyone.

Any question?

Question: In the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta third chapter, Kṛṣṇa Dāsa Kavirāja is explaining that we can't make any positive rankings in the devotees of Lord Caitanya who is higher, who is lower.  When Lord Caitanya was in Jagannātha Purī He was talking about the devotees... During car festival, during Ratha-yātrā they were asking how we can become more in Kṛṣṇa Conscious. He was saying, “By serving the Vaiṣṇavas.” So, they were asking again, Who is the Vaiṣṇava? Lord Caitanya said, “One who chant even one time the name of Kṛṣṇa, he is a Vaiṣṇava”. So why is this? In the same time he is explaining so many different levels like kaniṣṭha, uttama, madhyama and now also they don’t want to consider of a devotee who is a preacher, devotee who is a true preacher, Lord Caitanya why they have so many considerations this creature, who is the creator? Trying to put everybody...  ...in materialistic devotee when the advice of Lord Caitanya is, if a person one time chants he is a Vaiṣṇava?

Jayapatākā Swami: Yes. Lord Caitanya said, you chant even one time, you are a Vaiṣṇava! He said also that, there are different ways of respecting Vaiṣṇava. He said, someone who is chanting, but they are not strictly following, or they are envious, so there is some, somehow, they are not rightly situated, we respect them as Vaiṣṇava in the heart, but we don't intimately associate with them. We don't listen to them because they may disturb our mind. But with someone who is strictly following, they are initiated, and strictly following and they are not envious, they are very well situated in the path of devotional service, we call them as prabhu, we offer them respect bow down to them

vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca

kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo

vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

Then there is devotees who have actually realized the purport of the scriptures and devotional service. By their preaching they are able to destroy their doubts of other devotees. Some people by their propaganda can create doubts. That is not the sign of an uttama-adhikārī to be able to create doubts in devotional service. It is not one of the signs. That maybe the sign of, when you say uttama-adhikārī, how you can recognize another uthama-adhikārī? Because, one of the qualifications of uttama-adhikārī is that he cannot be recognized by others. Thus, says the qualification of uttama-adhikārī, he destroys the doubts of others and establishes that without any doubt.

It is said someone like that who is purely preaching them and he can be taken shelter of, and accepted as spiritual master. Even if someone of course getting little bit off the point, even if someone says, ok, nobody is an uttama-adhikārī, just Prabhupāda is an uttama-adhikārī. Then Prabhupāda said that any spiritual master, any devotee who is very sincerely following uttama-adhikārī guru, whether he is a madhyama, or kaniṣṭha but he is strictly without speculating or adding his own thing, he is simply teaching what the uttama-adhikārī has taught and leading people to the uttama-adhikārī, he is also, we can take him as a guru, and as is good, that he lead one that's also ok. But that's not exactly on the point you are speaking here. But that's an underlying topic that comes up sometimes.

So, there is different ways we will be... although that the context I believe that the part that you are talking here third chapter is specifically dealing, there are so many devotees or associates of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All the associates of Lord Caitanya are on the transcendental platform. Someone may be mādhurya-līlā or vātsalya or sākhya or dāsya, but they all are on the transcendental level. So, you can't say this is higher, this is lower.

We don't say like that Śrī Rādhārani is higher than Hanuman in that sense. We don't get into like higher and lower on a material way, they all are transcendental but then Hanuman his devotion is the greatest, but his intensity, you say service, intimacy because of dāsya-bhāva may be somewhat limited, because of a particular emotion or the type of services he got a limited range or scope as compared to mādhurya or vātsalya. So the devotee in that particular rasa is completely satisfied, he is not thinking I want to be a gopī, I want to be a parent of Kṛṣṇa, he is quite happy, quite fully satisfied in that service, in that particular rasa.

So it's not as one is higher, one is lower on some material sense, you know like some stylish symbol or something, who has got a higher sky rise building, or who has got a better car. It's simply that one is more you can say complete or something, in that kind of another transcendental sense, we have like a higher or lower. But you know it’s not in a material sense. So that way you can say this devotee is greater than that devotee, these are all on the... They are already beyond that type of you know beyond that type of distinction. They are already all of them are so great that it's you see it's just a very cosmetic, or superficial sat. It's not relevant to discuss this one is greater than that one, they all are great.

Of course, they may say that, then again you find that somewhere else, amongst them you know Svarūpa Dāmodara was really the most intimate, because he not only was he knew that the conclusion of the scriptures. Like that you know instances. Especially this one is established to clear the things, because we have one like newsletter you know Brahmā is better than Indra, Indra is better than the other devas, because he is Indrarāja. But those devas are better than the Gandharvas and other, who are just lower. But they are better than human beings, you know actually there is some physical you know the difference of their capacity. But when you get up each of the devotees of Lord Caitanya is qualified to give mercy to everyone. They all in the transcendental platform. Those nitya-siddha gaurāṅga nitya what's that verse Narottama sings? gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kori' māne?

Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kari' māne,
se yāya vrajendra-suta-pāśa
sri-gauḍa-manḍala-bhūmi, yeba jāne cintāmaṇi,
tāra haya vraja-bhūmi vāsa

and there is another, in the same song there is one it says gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kari māne. Some other conclusion is that someone who knows except Caitanya Mahāprabhu's devotees eternally liberated souls is glorified, he is a real devotee or something, I forget what Narottama sang. But... So, there are different ways we deal with different types of devotees.

So, one thing you are talking is apples and oranges. The first thing is that he was talking

about the eternal associates of Lord Caitanya, they all are on the transcendental platform, someone may be mādhurya, someone may be sākhya, doesn't matter they all nitya-siddhas. They all are eternally liberated souls. They are on the transcendental platform. That there is no objective view which a devotee is doing more type of service, more complete is there, devotional range of emotions that way you can discuss. But it’s not the one is material, one is, they all on the absolute platform. They all are pleasing Kṛṣṇa fully, there is no tinge of material in any of them. But that's why he was avoiding you know; he doesn’t want to say this one is greater than the that one. Just clearing it. Don't think that if what I am saying is, trying to say that one is better than the other, I am just explaining that different qualities. They are all transcendental; this way doesn't offend anyone if you mention right?

Devotee: You mentioned that the devotee who finished out his sādhanā and he is initiated is to be respected. You see nowadays most of the devotees who are reestablish their sādhanā and following rules and regulations, they are the devotees who are creating lots of doubts, many other devotees consider them lower because they are...

Jayapatākā Swami: I understand that what you are saying.

Devotee: You explained that devotee who is already fixed and his...

Jayapatākā Swami: Finally yeah, I don't know what the second part is...

Devotee: These devotees are...

Jayapatākā Swami: Whose devotee?

Devotee: what is called already situated in... before Prabhupāda they are creating the doubts.

Jayapatākā Swami: Every devotee initiated is creating doubts?!

Devotee: Most of it...

Jayapatākā Swami: Amongst them someone creating doubts?!

Devotee: Most... even most of them are sannyāsīs, they are creating different philosophies, trying to put so much doubts in the devotees who are making devotion... Somehow...

Jayapatākā Swami: I don't know. I don't accept that. Most of the sannyāsīs in ISKCON are creating doubts! I don't think so.

Devotee: There are sannyāsīs who lead the movement and they start creating doubts...

Jayapatākā Swami: Unless there is a movement, that means they are not properly situated.

Devotee: Even if they are following strictly...

Jayapatākā Swami: However, if they disobey the guru's orders, if you miss the main point then you do some cosmetic thing. The main, guru's order if you neglect, the verse today whatever you do if Kṛṣṇa is not pleased it's all a waste of time. If you disobey the guru's order and do something totally different, in against the order of guru and Kṛṣṇa then whatever you say is bound to be disturb. That's why Prabhupāda said that the Gauḍīya maṭha could never get off the ground after they disobey Bhakti Siddhānta order to work on the GBC. They started to speculate their own material concoctions. In spiritual life is no scope for introducing material ideas. Once you start introducing your material ideas, then it is finished. Then it is, you lose the taste.

That's why Lord Caitanya said that, we cannot be lazy when it comes to understanding the conclusions of the devotional service, the scriptures. You have to study Prabhupāda books. Mostly people they will not, they will read every other book, they don't want to study Prabhupāda books again and again. Actually, Prabhupāda books have so much information to protect us from this mental speculation.

But the disciple he thinks that spiritual master is angry. The anger of the spiritual master is also blessing, to teach the disciple not to do something wrong. So one may be doing something which is not right, because of that they have to suffer. The guru may be show anger at them to impress, what you are doing is wrong, you should correct yourself. Whatever they are doing right, they may also get some blessings. Even people who leave or who don't strictly follow Prabhupāda, but something they are still doing, so that is still they are getting some some mercy they are getting. But because they are not strictly following Prabhupāda's instructions, or the previous ācāryas' instruction they are not able to get up to the expectation, neither also to achieve the full mercy, because they are not following the full instructions.

Any other question?

Devotee: Not Audible. What is the best way to deal philosophically, destroy this wrong kind of philosophy? Even our devotees they say, I don't read 10th canto, 11th canto, because it is not work of Prabhupāda....

Jayapatākā Swami: Ultimately the tenth canto is not written by Hridayananda Maharaj, it is written by Vyāsadeva.

Devotee: ... foolish decisions

Jayapatākā Swami: He is just translating, and translation on the previous ācāryas. If somebody says something foolish this is what we have to know the correct philosophy then we can defeat the foolish ideas. Going to Jīva Gosvāmi, going to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, whoever the founder ācārya is of sampradāya, he is a śikṣā-guru for all the followers.

So, one sense every one is a śikṣā disciple of Prabhupāda. But according to the disciplic succession they may be the formal initiation, diksa/śikṣā guru that we follow, we have the paramparā system. Otherwise, if we say that Prabhupāda is the absolute guru, and we don't have any other guru, then why do we need, what is the meaning of having a paramparā system? Then everyone could have been, Lord Caitanya's disciple or Brahmā's disciple directly, there is no need of having a disciplic succession.

What they are saying is that, actually is like sullen itself defeating. No sane devotee even contemplates. There is no remedial, if the conclusion of an argument ends up with something which is ridiculous that mean that the argument itself is ridiculous. If the conclusion is that there is no need to have a guru-paramparā system, which is then given in all of Prabhupāda's books and all the Vedas that we have to come within the paramparā that means that defeats the argument itself.

Jai Jagannātha, Jai Rādhā-Kānta, Jai Nitāi-Gaura

You can say so many things, but if the conclusion is against the Vedas, then what is the question?

It's just like according to the logic you can say that, the Vedas say that the cow stool is pure, therefore brāhmaṇa is better than a cow. So brāhmaṇa's stool is pure. So we can now put brāhmaṇa's stool on our plate, soon we take prasādam, you can use it to bathe, you know. No, you cannot, it’s a dirty thing. But you can bathe the Deities in the cow. So they are taking something out of context, and then using some kind of logic, and by logic they are coming to the conclusion which is against the Vedas, and they consider themselves paṇḍitas. Like this there are millions of paṇḍitas in the Vedic culture, it’s called nyāya. Actually, we need to study it seems nyāya to be able to deal with the misuse of logic.

One of the, it’s like you say, Bill is an American. Bill killed John. Therefore, an American killed John. Therefore, all Americans are murderers. It’s not. Doesn’t work. But that's the type of explanation. If one thing to do another, but the ultimate conclusion is wrong, so that means that the whole argument is not based on...