19900115 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.12.39

Vande aham sree guru sri yuta padakamalam sri gurun vaisnavams ca

The following is a class given by HH Jayapataka swami on January 15th 1998 in Madras India. The class begins with the reading from the Srimad Bhagavatam 3rd canto chapter 12 verse 39.

Sahagana rag

Then he created the fifth Veda- the Puranas and the histories from all his mouths, since he could see all the past, present and future.

Purport-There are histories of particular countries and nations and of the world, but the Puranas are the histories of the universe, not only in one millennium, but in many kalpas. Brahma has knowledge of those historical facts, and therefore all the Puranas are histories. As originally composed by brahma, they are part of the Vedas and are called the fifth Veda.

Thus, ends the Bhakti Vedanta Swami translation purport to text 39 chapter 12 of canto 3 of the Srimad Bhagavatam in the matters of Creation of the Kumaras and others.

There is certain sect of Hinduism that only wants to accept the original Vedas. They don’t want to accept the Puranas Mahabharat Ramayana. But actually, here it is confirmed that the Puranas are part of Vedic literatures. They should be known as the fifth Veda, Pancham Veda,Panchamaam Veda. This has the Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Veda, Known as the four Vedas. So the Ithihasas, The Puranas, they are the fifth Veda,Pancham Veda. So, the information given in the Vedas including the fifth Veda, specifically the fifth Veda, the Puranas, by giving the history of the entire universe, they are actually giving us so many instructions. Within these histories, there are the conversations between great souls. They are the pastimes of historical situations which are actually landmark situations in the universe. The election of some democratic head of state and then their subsequent loss of popular support and replacing by another head of state. This type of transient information will not produce the valuable pages of the fifth Veda, like they produce the daily newspapers. Now the Vedas, especially the Puranas, they are giving us the history of the universe of the real important occurrences. While Bali Maharaj’s defeat of the victory over the demigods, their defeat was featured not just because it was an important dialogue and the Asuras defeated the Devas, but because the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vishnu appeared in the form of Vamana Deva and gave Bali Maharaj His mercy. Bali Maharaj surrendered to Vamana Deva and in reciprocation Vamana Deva also became his door keeper, became his guard. Actually, Bali Maharaj was proud that he had conquered the whole universe, so when the Vamana deva came and asked for biksha so then Bali said yes, you can have whatever you want. He said I only want three steps of land. Whatever I can take in three steps, three paces, that’s all I want. He said why don’t you take something more valuable. What is three steps? nothing. ‘He thinks how much can someone step on, about three meters maximum. He said, no that’s all I want, just give me three steps. He says it’s alright you can have it. Then Sukracharya, he says no don’t give it to him. You are being fooled. He is not an ordinary Brahmin. He is Vishnu. What He can do in three steps, it’s inconceivable. You take back your word. You just say you are very sorry that you just told a lie. You can’t give it finished. He says how can I tell a lie? You see sometimes you can also tell a lie why not? If it’s a life and death situation, you may have to tell a lie, if it is to save all your property. He gave some morality instructions, when you can lie. So, you going to lose everything. You just told Vishnu you will give Him three steps of land, and I told you in three steps you won’t be able to do it. So, you better just say you lied. Forget it. So, Bali Maharaj thought you said all my life I should worship Vishnu. Everyday I’m doing yajna for Vishnu. Now you are telling me, tell him I should make myself a liar and say “no I won’t give you”. If it is not Vishnu why should I lie? If it is Vishnu and He takes everything, even let Him take whatever He want. But if He is Vishnu, then He is my worship able object, my Lord. So, then I should also not lie to Him. You are telling me to reject Him he is Vishnu. I will reject you. Guru is after all representing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When he goes against the laws, he is no longer qualified. He is no longer a guru. If an ambassador goes against his own country, he is no longer an ambassador. He is a traitor. He loses his credentials. So, all these things are there, you all know it’s a very well-known history, because so much spiritual instruction is given. Then of course Vamana Dev expanded himself and became Trivikrama. In one step He covered the whole planet, the whole lower region, in one step the whole upper region unlimited, breaking through the edge of the universe, the Ganges came in. Without Trivkrama pastimes, Bali Maharaj pastimes, the Ganges how would she have come into this world? Such an important historical fact was there, historical account. So, then Vishnu told Bali, in three steps I’ve taken everything. The whole lower and upper regions. So, where do I put my third step? So, then Bali Maharaj said, alright now I have only one place left I can give you, you put it on my head. You have taken everything I own, now you take me. You take my body, you take myself. I belong to you now. So, the third step, He put on Bali Maharaj’s head. So, in this way Bali Maharaj he was just tied up like a common thief. Now he was the property of Vishnu. But because he gave himself to Vishnu, then in reciprocation, because Krishna says in Gita…Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham…according to how the devotee is approaching Him and worshipping Him, He reciprocates in the same way, so therefore He in turn He also give himself to Bali Maharaj. He stayed with Bali Maharaj. So, this type of historical accounts is given in the Puranas. These are very important occurrences in the history of the universe. So, the Puranas are being maintained. They are not new; they are from the very creation. But previously Brahma, He gave the history even before these things could happen. He already knew what was going to happen. Then they are now written down by Vyasadev. Otherwise before they were just spoken. So, these are very important information. The Puranas are divided into three sections. There is the goodness, passion and ignorance. Six each mode of nature, in total eighteen Puranas. So, each Purana is looking at things in a different perspective. So, we have to remember which Purana we are reading, this is which perspective. It’s like if you are looking from the perspective of a citizen of Tamilnadu, you may say the topmost citizen is the chief minister. There is no one bigger than him. He is the top of Tamilnadu. But if you are looking from all India basis, then you say there are so many chief ministers, but over everyone is the Prime minister. So, like that different Puranas are looking from different view point. So that way you have to also see that The Puranas in accordance to the view point they are taking. The mode of goodness, the Puranas in sattva guna they give the overall perspective from the view point of the Absolute Truth, from the view point of Vishnu. But of all the Puranas, the Srimad Bhagavatam is considered the Amala Purana, is considered the spotless Purana. It has no touch of any other three modes, neither goodness, passion nor ignorance. It is purely transcendental. Actually, Srila Prabhupad explained that the Lord take different appearances, we know that this time He came as VamanaDev, he came in the form of Ramachandra. But for us in kaliyuga the Lord has come in the most important form. He has come in the form of Srimad Bhagavatam. Actually the Srimad Bhagavatam is the literary form of Krishna. You find like in Assam, there they worship the Srimad Bhagavatam. They also put the Srimad Bhagavatam on the altar and do arati every day and do circumambulation. Sometime one vaishnava acharya, he said that his followers should worship the Srimad Bhagavatam. For us the Srimad Bhagavatam is also worship able. In the Bhagavata Mahatmyam it says wherever the Bhagavatam is kept all the devas are coming and offering their obeisances every day. The Bhagavatam is considered the literary form of Krishna. It is risen like a sun when Krishna left. Puranaka sunohitau, this way we find The Srimad Bhagavatam has risen. We must read the Bhagavatam every day. Bhagavatam is an easy way to make association with the Lord. Of course, in this age of kali the Lord also appears as the nama rupa, coming in a kali kaler nama rupa avatar. In the age of kali, the Lord is also appearing as the holy name…Sri Krishna Chaitanya Radha Krishna nahi anya. Balaram hoila Nitai. Lord Chaitanya is Radha and Krishna, Balaram has come as Nityananda Prabhu. So, they came and they, Lord Chaitanya He didn’t write, He says study the Srimad Bhagavatam, study the Bhagavad Gita, Chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. So, these are the important instructions, to chant Hare Krishna and to study the Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavat Gita. This is so important. Certain atheistic people they don’t want that people should read. Because this is a transcendental book, it so truly explains the position of Krishna, so they say well we don’t accept the Puranas. One time Bhakti Siddhanta Thakur, he was invited to speak in a mayavadi sammelan. So, they invited him to come and speak, but then he agreed, but then some of the mayavadis, they became afraid, that they said you just talk on Bhagavat Gita, you can talk on so many scriptures. So, you should only speak on the four Vedas. Then he won’t be able to bring in all the Bhakti. So, they send message that he can speak only the first upanga, the Upanishad and the four Vedas. Then He said ok alright. I’ll speak on Upanishad. There is enough evidence in Upanishad about, eko bahunam yo vidha dati Kaman, that everything is being maintained by the Supreme Lord (Svetesvatara Upanishad) parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. So many slokas are there. The way he went back and gave the message, he said, “Stop. You should not speak on Upanishad.” They thought many Upanishads he knows, there are 108 upanishad , maybe he will definitely find something about Bhakti. They said “you can speak only on four Vedas. They went back so now we have decided that we are just going to speaking only on four Vedas. He said ‘alright I accept and speak on four Vedas”. Of course, even in the four Vedas, the rig veda say om Krishna sachi nanda gana adi Krishna adi purusa purushotama. Krishna is the original person . Krishna is the satcitananda vigraha. Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Rig veda mantra is there. So many mantras are there. So, when the message came back that HDG Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur is accepting to speak on the four Vedas, they thought. Now even four Vedas, it is difficult. In this also he finds some ways to push Bhakti. So better he speaks on Vedanta sutra. So, they send the final message to speak on the Vedanta sutra. He said ‘alright I’ll speak on the Vedanta sutra’. Then they thought, you know, he is such a great scholar, even Vedanta sutra he will establish, so you better just cancel the program. (laughter) So like this actually all the Vedas are leading one to Krishna but some are few verses are there but some are more. We accept every verse in the vedas. But they have to be understood in the proper perspective, in the proper context. Just like Prabhupad gives the example, you can find in the Vedas, he says that if you touch any excrement of any living being, then you have to take a bath. But same time, it says that if you take cow dung, gobar , you can bathe the deities with that. It is pure. Scripture says if you touch any bone, you have to bathe before you can worship the deity. But they say you can bathe the deity with the conch shell sanka. But shanka is nothing but the bone of a sea animal. So, this contradiction is there. So, the general instruction is there, but some exception is also given. Yes, gobar is pure, shanka is pure. So, we have to follow the Vedas in its entirety. May be ten places it is said you don’t touch the excrements, but in some places, it says but you can use gobar for bathing. We accept. But we need, that’s why we need the Guru parampara to explain how to apply the different instructions of the Vedas. Because sometimes the instructions are apparently contradictory. If someone, he wants to use his own logic and not follow the Vedas then he creates a disturbance. Prabupada gave the example that if someone says “So Brahmin is most pure, so then we can use Brahmana’s stool, brahmana’s excrement, no”– it is not accepted. No human being, even brahmana, you can never use his excrement. This is all to be kept far away. But cow dung – this is only pure, nothing no other stool is pure. So, speculation and misinterpretation create a havoc and this is why disciplic succession is given. But if someone can read the scripture and they can get some misinterpretation, they may not know how to apply it. In this way they create a confusion. So simultaneously with the sastras, is also the handing down of the scripture to the disciplic succession. So, there is some translation wise when he created the fifth Vedas, the puranas and the histories from all his mouths which he could see all past, present and future. Any questions?

Question (not clear) (17:30 to 17.45)

GM Answer: In the end of the day of brahma, when the universe is destroyed, that time all the jivas enter into the body of Garbodakasayi Vishnu and they remain dormant there. There is a part in the Bhagavatam where it mentions that Narada Muni at the end of a day of Brahma, he was also inside the body of Garbodakasayi Vishnu. But he remained conscious, he didn’t lose his forgetfulness. But others they were completely dismantled and brought down to the basic level .of .. and they stay like that. Prarabda– state, prarabda state. So then, the time when brahma wakes up then again, he takes up some other planet. We find that sometime in the border of Garbodaka ocean, some of the planets are kept in the night of Brahma, so he can just lift the planets and put them back into the orbit and rearrange the universe according to his desire. He is the creator so he is always creating every day. Every day he wakes up and he creates a universe. And in the night, they get destroyed by Lord Siva. But we can understand that the great souls like the four Kumaras, Narada Muni, Shiva, they are not….. ah .. they remain conscious, Actually Shiva is greater than Brahma, but he appears as the son of Brahma. Just like the lila, so therefore he is respecting even the four kumaras as his older brother, Bhavadwaja is one of the names of the Kumaras, the older brother Or Bhava. Bhava means Shiva. Bhavadwaja. (someone asking not clear) (GM continues) Dissolve means that they don’t dissolve. Dissolve means like they disappear. Their bodies are there, the body is made from the material elements. Lord Shiva is not having material body. Shiva tattva is a separate thing. it is very ..you know that he is an expansion of Vishnu with some change. Because of contact with the material nature. He is transformed like milk to yoghurt. So it is very difficult for us to understand Shiva Tattva. You know that he is in between jiva tattva and Vishnu tattva. But the jiva tattva, they are covered by the eight elements. The three subtle and five gross. Those are all dissolved, the subtle elements. And this jiva, the atma is inside the Garbhodakasayi Vishnu. Because Narada muni was already liberated atma. He is muktatma. So, he is also an atma inside Garbhodakasayi Vishnu. But he did not merge. Neither did the individual atmas merge. They were just dormant. They were unconscious or dormant. But Narada muni was conscious. So Narada muni was conscious, we could assume that the four kumaras should also be conscious. Other great sages and rishis of that level liberated souls, they were also remain conscious. There will be a continuity, they remember what happened in the previous day of Brahma. But the other jivas, they don’t know what happened in the previous day of Brahma, the previous Kalpa is beyond their scope of recollection. Because their mind, intelligence and false ego was totally dissolved. And recreated again. There is some prarabda karma which is connected to the atma, which is the code form to show what was the previous action he did in the previous kalpa. Then on that basis of that code form, just like Nara’s computer code, you can get like this coding is there. So then again, they take their birth according to the new, with their old desire. There is some category in that. The detailed karmas are not there. Just a show in. In a new creation, he should start out animal, deva, this that whatever. Otherwise he has a rest day. But he starts off from that position. (someone asks – not clear) (GM continues) But madhyama Adhikari also studies scriptures, although his study is not complete. Only the kanistha Adhikari is very poor in knowledge. But madhyama is a madhyama in knowledge. What was the question – the last part you said (someone speaks – not clear). (GM continues) He is also considered perfect, he is considered perfect, but he is considered unripe perfect. He is like a mango. Mango is mango. But mango may be at different stages of being ripe. So fully ripened mango is like Uttama Adhikari, little less ripe is the madhyama, fully green mango is a kanistha Adhikari. So madhyama Adhikari means, it is already edible, but keep it little time, it will be fully ripened. So, it is already perfected but they think that the process of perfection is there. The madhyama Adhikari remains in devotional service, naturally, the ripening also continues. So, compared to someone in the material world he is to be respected as also perfect. But his perfection is not as complete as the person who is in the Uttama Adhikari level. It is like perfect, more perfect and most perfect, that type. So, you become a devotee of Krishna already there is perfection. You somehow realize the summum bonum. There are some people who think that, you worship a politician that is perfection. They are totally off the track. If someone understands that the Iswara parama Krishna satcitananda vigraha anadir adi govinda sarva karana karanam, that Krishna is the param brahma, He is already perfect. Lord Chaitanya said that anyone who chants Hare Krishna is also perfect. But someone who is chanting till he is initiated, following all the sadhana everything, is in the madhyama Adhikari level. He is considered more perfect. That is the person we actually call, Prabhu. They have reasons to respect. The other ones they believe in Vishnu, in our heart we respect them, but if they are not following clearly, we don’t associate very closely. Uttama Adhikari, that way is fully convinced, they don’t have any more doubts. (some speaks not clear) (GM continues) I have never seen the two explained side by side like that. It’s different. I don’t know, I (someone speaks not clear) (GM continues) you are saying that bhakti means that they are already in the Uttama Adhikari – no doubt. (someone speaks not clear) (GM continues) there may be some explanation that at which level the person goes from madhyama to Uttama. but I also don’t know. I can’t recall all that. .I .. the whole thing is explained – either kanistha, madhyama, Uttama. That is one type of definition. The other way bhakti is explained starting from sraddha, starting from anartha nivrithi, then bajana kriya, satsanga, anartha nivrthy, bajana kriya, then nishta ruchi, asakti, bhav , then prem. That is another separate way of describing. But this off hand, I don’t remember. The two being matched up side by side. It may be there, but I don’t recall. I am not. But for sure whoever is in prema Bhakti is already liberated. Even emphasis is given through out what is actually Uttama Adhikari, what is madam. It is very practical understanding Rupa Goswami gave in the nectar of devotion. That Uttama Adhikari, madhyama, kanistha. Kanistha means, he believes in Krishna but if someone tells him, actually why do you believe in Krishna, Krishna is doing this and that, he may get so bewildered, really. Yeah how is that? In this way he is like weak minded. He starts to doubt. But in his heart, he still thinks, maybe there is an answer. How could it be – yeah that Krishna is doing that…hahan. If it is the kanistha Adhikari, he gets bewildered. Someone says that Oh Krishna is stealing butter, he is a thief, and how can I worship a thief. Yah How can I worship a thief? …….. (not clear) Krishna is god but how can be a thief. But he actually doubts. That is kanistha. Very weak knowledge. The Madhyama means if someone who cannot describe the thief. How you are worshipping Krishna who is stealing butter, and he is thinking, yeah there is a point, but there must be an answer. Must be an answer. My Guru or the Sastra must explain. If Krishna is God, there must be some reason. He doesn’t doubt. But he doesn’t know the answer also. So, he is not able to answer that question. That is madhyama. But he doesn’t doubt. He knows that, I will ask my guru, I will ask a Vaishnava and I will find out. Answer must be there. Uttama Adhikari – he knows the answer. (…. not clear) Krishna is the proprietor of everything, why He has to steal. That He is doing a lila to just give all the residents of Vrindavan something to talk about and chastise him and in this way, they are enjoying so much. But actually, He is not a thief, what He has to steal, He is the proprietor of everything. So very practical way Rupa Goswami gave explanation. So, we cannot become of course, so Prabhupada even explained that they even answered the question is that is not something totally academic. it has to be given by the mercy of Krishna. Krishna gives the intelligence to go back to him. Dadami buddhi yogam tam . by our own endeavor we can become a madhyama Adhikari, by Krishna’s mercy one may become a Uttama Adhikari. that is the point. But both madhyama and Uttama, as he was mentioning are considered different stages of perfection. ..(not clear) then there is another practical definition for the preacher. There are so many different definitions so sometimes people use one definition to prove one point or another definition. But the practical point is like that as far as the preachers are concerned. So Uttama Adhikari is one who can answer the question, who’s never doubting in Krishna, who is fixed in transcendental knowledge. He is the one who is qualified to be a guru under normal circumstances. Madhyama Adhikari – he doesn’t know the answer, he gets bewildered, he doesn’t doubt though. But he doesn’t always know the answer, what to say, how this can be understood, he may be madhyama. And someone who actually doubts, who gets bewildered in doubts – he is kanistha. Normally the Uttama Adhikari can be the guru. He is never doubting. Sometimes the madhyama also can be a guru if he is following the Uttama Adhikari guru. Even if a kanistha, very strictly follows, then Prabhupad said that he can also be a guru. But then he has to strictly follow the previous acharyas, Uttama Adhikari guru. Normally if he is a guru, he shouldn’t have any doubt isn’t it. If they have doubts then why should one be a guru. Then his disciples will go behind him to solve their doubts. suppose if they go to him and the disciple ask such a question and the guru says aha...that is something (... laughter). The disciples become more perplexed. Even the guru is bewildered, so then where to go. Isn’t it? That’s why he is saying that if a person has a guru who is himself not fully convinced, then the disciples become bewildered. He can become perplexed. But Prabhupada wanted all of his followers to be fully convinced of this philosophy and to spread this preaching. So, we study the Srimad Bhagavatam, study the books that Srila Prabhupad gave us and practice it in our daily lives. There is no reason why one cannot become fully convinced. Because devotional service is so systematic and so clear that by the blessings of the previous acharyas one can be fully convinced about this philosophy without any difficulty. Hare Krishna.