20050918 Istagosthi

20050918 Istagosthi @ Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

18/SEPTEMBER /2005

https://soundcloud.com/jayapatakaswāmī/20050918-jps?in=jayapatakaswāmī/sets/enlightenment-10

His Holiness Jayapatākā swāmī Mahārāja

Address  to disciples

                                                In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

The following is an address given by H H Jayapatākā swāmī Mahārāja on September 18, 2005 in Kuala Lumpur,  Malaysia. The address was given to the disciples.

I am very happy to see that many of the disciples are here based in Kuala Lumpur in  Jagannātha mandir congregation. I don't know when we have istaghosti with disciples in the memorial. Do we have one?

Guru Mahārāja speaking in Tamil...

The istagosti is the opportunity to give questions but first I like to get some. I am very grateful to the congregational leaders, temple managers and senior devotees here at the Jagannātha temples who are guiding through the counsellors nāmahaṭṭa leaders for giving guidance to support the disciples on my behalf. Not so many cases come to me which they are not able to deal with. A case means that there is some matter that come up to me so that means they must be doing a good job. So i appreciate that. It's like once Prabhupāda said that spiritual life is like a hospital and guru is like a doctor. So once I have that chance to be in the hospital as a patient, I don't recommend  anybody to do that. But in spiritual life it's a transcendental hospital. But if you are sick,  you have no choice. You have to get to have the treatment. So i have no choice. I wish i was in the Bhaktivedānta Hospital in Mira road but they said i was in madrin hospital….And there were thousands of devotees. But anyways i did have a doctor but the doctor was seeing me some times but mainly the interns and and nurses were seeing me and were giving the report to the doctors…

Generally I get some reports. Everyone tells me that generally the devotees are doing well. Occasionally there are some one situations that I need to give some personal attention. There is an opportunity to directly ask any questions. When I was in one temple here in Malaysia, then they told me that the initiated devotees, some  of them were very active and  preaching and pushing on the movement and  others were not so active. So they are asking me how to enliven the ones who are not so active. That temple was in Kaot temple. So that is an important thing. We want that the devotees should take up the mission of Śrīla Prabhupāda and somehow keep some time one or two hours a week or four hours a week,  one evening a week, two evenings a week, work according to their situation for helping to spread the Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement. It's not enough to be initiated or have a spiritual master. We should also want to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda’s movement. Some people here are very active and they are giving a lot of help to other devotees. Everybody should try to work up to their capacity. They are planning for me to come back and spend 10-11 days in December then of course  everytime i come through usually I am  coming through Phil as it's an international gateway. You will probably see me more than other devotees and from other places but i try to get around but i am not so successful. I pray everyday for all the devotees for their spiritual advancements and other disciples. I give special prayers for the disciples so that they are able to be strong in their Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I have been showing the presentation about the development of the Congregational ministry and then there I also gave some excerpts from Kuala Lumpur  from the strategic plans that they have made and in that  they showed that there were 88 groups last year. I don't know how many groups there are now and there are many different programs like Dāmodara month. There was a 100 Dāmodara programs in Jagannātha mandir. I really appreciate all that enthusiasm. I think it was something that enliven the leaders from all around the world.They didn't know that.  The world is such a thing that Dāmodara program. What to speak of someone doing the program like 3 programs a day.So really appreciate that. The different efforts everyone puts in to make this a dynamic congregation. Today this is the leading congregation of Malaysia and one of the leading congregations in the world. But they  dont want us to rest on the laurels so there is no resting on the laurels. That means thinking that ok we are doing good so now we don't have to try anymore. Not to be, we should try to improve over but I do wanna really express that i do appreciate the wonderful efforts that they got  in by people who are here and people in the past and i hope that you continue to improve your strategic planning and make your dynamic development for helping the conditioned souls. There are lots of conditioned souls here in this Salanguar, Kuala Lumpur area. So I hope and request that the disciples take an active role and seeing that we can get the message of Śrīla Prabhupāda to the conditioned souls.  The West Bengal govt in Māyāpur and Calcutta gave some kind of encouragement to Mr. Ford  Ambrish Dās so in principle they were approving his project to build the Vedic Planetarium. We have to see when there how much work is there now but if it is through then a lot of my time i have to spend more actively with the project for the next couple of years.That travelling won't affect the devotees in Malaysia less since you are nearby i can always speak over. But it would affect,  I am sure to some extent unless I can make this my office. So I will let you ask your questions.

Question: During the unclean period of mothers is it possible bhoga can be cooked and it is offered. I have a situation where no one to cook other than the mataji. I am having a deity of Gaur Nitāi.

Guru Mahārāja:  Of course this is a kind of general question but there is a saying that emergency knows no rule. Just like the mother during the unclean time she has to cook for children and take care of them. If there is a big joint family and you have few families together and you have Mother In Law  and everyone then you can divide up and share the duties and free somebody.  but if you are one of those nuclear families like husband, wife kids then obviously you don't have too much choice. Of Course the husband himself could help in cooking otherwise Prabhupāda allowed in emergency that the wife may be can cook and do other services. Even someone today told me today that they have recently read it and they ask whether they can come to the temple then Prabhupāda said well he thought about it and then he said that if they want to come then they should wear a silk saree. Said that's a good excuse for a husband to buy them a silk saree.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa any more questions…

No matter everybody knows how to write.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa Guru Mahārāja. Please accept my humble obeisances. [Not clear] Sometimes specially for me  and sometimes it goes on and on. How to maintain desire to keep going and how to serve the spiritual master and how to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda in his mission.

Guru Mahārāja: How to questions, how to do it. Actually everything we do is for giving us enthusiastic, how to be enthusiastic, how do we study. Good association, regulative principles, devotional service all these things, practice over a period of time make us steadier, make us more enthusiastic and if we are more attached to the spiritual master when we requested. When difficulties  when we think that sometimes it happened to me that when i was building Māyāpur that it was so tough, mean I was really physically mentally really tough to may be someone born in western body to adjust and build something in the rural parts of India with all kinds of obstacles. Then i would just think that i would never do this for myself but i am just doing this for sure Śrīla Prabhupāda’s pleasure. I am doing this for your mercy, give me your mercy and somehow with that consciousness then things got a little easier. That i was very clear this i was only doing just to please my spiritual master.I didn't have another motive. So you may recall the difficult time because that's the good time for you to make a similar kind of prayer there. It’s really tough i have to deal with people i don't like dealing with,i have to do things i didn't like doing so many difficulties but i want to do this to please my spiritual master, to please Śrīla Prabhupāda , the previous ācāryas.And then i have to value learnt to like everything if it’s pleasing to your spiritual master does not bother you anymore, so this kind of anarthas that we have to pass through. Of Course, you don't have to sometimes like i was given an assignment i didn't have a choice. But sometimes like for me, the most disciples i have i don't say that they have to do this. They have a wider choice of alternatives they could do  but I do request that they try and help to spread the Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement  so they want to do Bhakti vṛkṣa, do nāmahaṭṭa or  dancing for the Janmāṣṭamī festival or drama. I don’t make out a specific thing for most the disciples so that they could choose which thing they find to be easier for them. But my work anyways is to remove those obstacles no matter what you choose that's your job and your job is to somehow remain determined and convince them and be patient. Rūpa Goswāmī said first thing is devotional service is to be enthusiastic, be patient,  to be convinced so if you are convinced that by doing this i am going to benefit, i  am going to please my spiritual master, I am going to get spiritual benefit then it should  be easier for you. The tougher it is the more Kṛṣṇa will appreciate it when you do it. Because the disciple have to ask the spiritual master for personal instruction or just have to stick it to the  instruction during initiation. Well in any case if you stick to the instruction during initiation that is like a standard. Sometimes disciples come and say do you have a personal instruction for me? It doesn't actually work like that  someone come up  and say give me a personal instruction but when they are actually discussing with the disciple and they are facing some difficulties or some challenge or some questions and they cross roads in their lives they don't know what to do different things that time actually instructions start to come. It's difficult just as when someone says give me an instruction Gurudev. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be happy. There are few devotees here that have faced some  kinds of individual challenges in their lives and they came and discussed with me and that time  we could give some instructions. It's hard to be what they call hypothetical.Do you have a problem,let's discuss it and let's  see what we can do  then we can come up with some. Otherwise .stick to the initiation vows and if you are not able to stick to those that's another reason to come and discuss.

Devotee:  Guru Mahārāja how it is like daily we can meditate upon our spiritual master. It's also how we can daily serve him. [Not clear] How can we observe and to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda mission.

Guru Mahārāja: What we trying to do is that everything  we do is we offer to Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.  Everything we do we trying to do is because we have instructions from our spiritual master. We are executing that instruction. Somebody is working for different .This devotional service is of 2 types like devotional service is direct like someones is coming and cleaning the temple for Janmāṣṭamī or stinging the garlands for the deities. That's the direct service then there is someone who may be working at their job like accountant or sales or whatever may be technician or business executive and they get paid.But it's not directly connected to Kṛṣṇa or something. They get a salary from there.So something from the salary they use in Kṛṣṇa’s service. So that way indirectly they can, think that my work is also a service to Kṛṣṇa because I use my work. Even if they are so poor , they get a very minimal salary and they couldn't maintain a family can offer food to Kṛṣṇa , facilitate my family to come to the temple just to survive. It's just a survival salary. If they have little more then they can think how to offer something to Kṛṣṇa , to the deities so then in everything we connect to Kṛṣṇa and when we connect to Kṛṣṇa we following the orders of the spiritual master and we are offering it through the Guru and Guruparampara.

 Did I mention that like in a hospital you know we have so many people working there and taking care of the patients but in congregation we have also we want to take care that everybody gets personal attention and obviously it's very difficult  for me to do that directly to everyone. When somebody has a serious situation then of course i try to give my attention. That's what we do to give people the  regular care and attention. That’s we have set up different programs. For the initiated devotees who are chanting 16 rounds we have a program called counsellor system For the  senior devotees who are counsellors and they can select which counsellor you want and they see how the devotees are progressing to give them some guidance and care as we have by the spiritual master. Not only me but by other spiritual masters disciples also within that system. Who is the member of a counsellor group?

Devotee: Guru Mahārāja is asking who is the member of the counsellor system. Please raise your hands.

Guru Mahārāja: That's not so many. I thought everybody would be a member. Because that's how i can think I can take care of you. Through my assistants they can see how you all are progressing, they can inform me, they can give you any first aid, the primary treatment , what’s it called primary miracle, primary care. If the primary care is not there then if it gets serious then it may be beyond care and that time they call me and that time i may saw a critical thing. Means what they call it ICG Intensive Care Ward or something. So doesn't go like that all of a sudden. We want to see that everybody gets the support they need so that's the hope that everybody be a part of the counsellor system. That's an important way we serve the devotees and care for them. We also have the nāmahaṭṭa system which is more great for preaching but it also helps a little bit that reaches out to people that don’t chant 16 rounds and helps. So both are there. Everybody should be a member of who is initiated and chanting 16 rounds sheltered the counsellor program.And they shall also be the part of the nāmahaṭṭa program as much as possible. How many here are the members of nāmahaṭṭa program? How many are not the members neither the counsellor nor the nāmahaṭṭa? Some people don't raise their hands at anything. How many people have hands?

Devotees: Guru Mahārāja just recently after so many years  if we have been taking up this BV programs seriously in Kuala Lumpur trying to implement it seriously and trying to encourage it  to take them this system but unfortunately . Recently we have this 2 devotees  Prem Padmini Mataji. By their training and encouragement we have reached out people to take Bhakti vṛkṣa seriously Already there are 5 or 6  Bhakti vṛkṣas now.

Guru Mahārāja: Who is the member of Bhakti vṛkṣa?

Devotees: We also did modules produced by Prem Padmini Mataji and its working fine..

Guru Mahārāja: Bhakt vṛkṣa is for engaging the devotees as well as great team efforts and empowering them to take more responsibility as well as we also providing the primary care. So we hope that especially for the more senior devotees. So there are lots of programs here and we hope that everybody can develop the Bhakti vṛkṣa programs. It can be more interactive and it helps the devotees.

Someone asked me what to do. I don't want to make an order that we have to do it but it's my strong recommendation. It's like a principle those who are not doing the temple service they are doing one of these this devotional groups as far as possible unless we have a very emergency situation like relative is not well, we have to provide care or your job is for 16 hours a day. We have IT professionals who are doing BV one day a week to get off and many people get through the exams in which case basically you get an opportunity. Maybe I have disciples and then other disciples they all get to participate in a  BV group. It's very easy for them to participate in BV and take some active role.

About 40-50 percent of the groups have ladies leaders so they give a chance to the senior ladies also to take responsibilities. I know in one case there was  a lady who was a circle leader incharge of 12 groups so that means she is overseeing the spiritual well being of about 250 devotees. So it's difficult to get such opportunities. Of course same opportunities exist for all the men so they always get those chances sorry i was highlighting the ladies everybody can gradually move up because as the groups multiplies so there are supervisors for the groups called senapatis or circle coordinators, circle supervisors, mahāchakra patis, upachakra patis they have so many different don't know if you use sanskrit term or english ones. But this way they get to circle it's a wonderful service to Kṛṣṇa . When we take some service for Kṛṣṇa we take just like you took it for  your families for your studies you take some responsibilities for your spiritual life or for department in your temple something then that helps you to please guru and Kṛṣṇa more because you are doing something more you are not just hosting. You are doing something very active and using your intelligence your abilities for Kṛṣṇa . It's a real Bhakti Yoga. I mean we read in BG and  Arjuna fought the battle for Kṛṣṇa . He knew how to fight what is his ability and he fought and he was an expert general for Kṛṣṇa . So like this you can use your abilities to facilitate a meeting, You don't have to give a big lecture but  just to facilitate  a meeting you can learn after participating for some time you can talk how to facilitate and it develops your communication skills. It helps when we are preaching others and helping others then we also get people’s realisations so it's a wonderful learning experience. We hope everyone will participate. We have this 88 nāmahaṭṭas so gradually if the nāmahaṭṭas many of them can be converted to Bhakti vṛkṣas. If you have both may be if you have smaller BV and bigger groupings of nāmahaṭṭas. Even in Mathuradesh they have about 100 BV groups and 20 nāmahaṭṭas. In the labor count .they have nāmahaṭṭas with 50 people 100 people in each group. In the urban areas they have the BV where they meet together 10-12-15 people in a group.

Someone has the hand up in the back. Some of the senior devotees are very good leaders. They are the leaders in their work before so now  they can take up some responsibilities for their entire life even well they are working not to mention any names.

Transcribed By: Neetu, United Kingdom, Reading

Completed On: 14th December, 2020

Proofread by:Srivani Mataji

Date:18/Dec/2020