20050830 Evening Lecture

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatāka Swāmi Mahārāja on August 30^th, 2005 in Bangalore, India. The lecture was given in the evening.

Guru Mahārāja: How was your Janmāśṭami festival?

Devotees: Haribol!! Very nice.

Guru Mahārāja: You had it here or in a hall?

Devotee: [Answering not clear]

GuruMahārāja: I was here last year. So, this year it was better. Makhanlal Prabhu was here. Oh Hosur!

Devotee: We did Janmāśṭami there and then Prabhupādā’s Appearance day here.

GuruMahārāja: You did an offering? This year was Śrīla Prabhupādā’s 109^th appearance.

Devotees: Haribol!!

GuruMahārāja: Now we have completed the 108^th. 108^th was an ecstatic year. Lots of festivals. Lots of commemorations. Probably we didn’t do as many things as we would like to have done. So, I was thinking how - for Prabhupāda’s Vyāsa Pūja, there should be a website where everybody can send the photos of their celebrations from around the world, so that people within temples and other temples would like to see what’s going on Vyāsa Pūja around the world -  worldwide [ 3:08 Not clear]  and together. Time of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s presence here was thirty seven years ago. And already in these thirty years the world has changed so much. In those days it was – it wasn’t – not so many people came to where Prabhupāda was for Vyāsa Pūja, everywhere – every temple they were observing the Vyāsa Pūja. So, there may be a few extra people came - but not like - there was one place that was the world’s special festival. Everywhere it was special. Everywhere they were observing Prabhupāda’s Appearance day. But we got to do what everybody else was doing because there was no way of knowing whether they were - we would only hear about it later. Then of course you get – it was[4:23 Not clear] year ago we got access to Prabhupāda’s lecture. Whenever Prabhupāda gave a lecture, everybody could hear streaming audio and sent a - audio clip around the world, be much more connected. Nonetheless, we actually - Prabhupāda also was travelling everywhere- visiting – so wherever Prabhupāda went that was also like a kind of Vyāsa Pūja, I would say, because, that was not a formal Vyāsa Pūja, but that was a guru pūja. It was a opportunity to associate with Śrīla Prabhupāda.

I was in India since 1970 to 79. So then, that period I didn’t see what was going on in the West. Only when people came to Māyāpur festival we would hear about it. We know that when Prabhupāda would come to Māyāpur, we would decorate the temple with mango leaves – here temple was decorated with mango leaves? You took it all out? So quickly you took it out? [laughter]

Devotee: Yesterday was mahā cleaning.

Guru Mahārāja: Why?

Devotees: [Not clear]

Guru Mahārāja:  [6:16 Not clear]Five star. I kind of back to the bearbums.[Laughter] So, I was actually thinking to come here yesterday.  Day before yesterday for Prabhupādā’s Vyāsa Pūja, originally because I was going to stay in Tirupati for Janmāśṭami. But then suddenly I found out that the World Hindu Federation was having their meeting on 28^th and 27^th. So, in order to attend that, I changed and moved up my program. There we had - I gave a multimedia presentation about ISKCON and about, what I thought that such an organisation could do for Hindu organisations – for the devotees around the world. And they really appreciated it. They said the presentation was very inspiring for them because I was the only one  having a multimedia [7:50 not clear]to be the standard and I got a letter written by the Executive Committee endorsing our Moscow temple.

Devotees: Haribol!!

GuruMahārāja: And endorsing ISKCON as  - we were the Hindu organisation to build the first Hindu temple in Moscow. So that’s been sent off already to Moscow. So everything now in Moscow is -  then the hurls of the past – except for those which appears to be the last [8:38 not clear]The Mayor’s final signature. The church is telling him, ‘Don’t sign. Don’t sign. Don’t sign.’

We are not against Christianity but some Christians don’t want to see the Hare Kṛṣṇas flourish. Unfortunately. And some of them are in Russia, in influential positions. So this letter, we hope it will contribute to the – his making the decision because the more we need it favourably to sign so that- - because I was there for that purpose. I missed out on the year. And, that is why I thought well, I should come here afterwards. And then also we had the plan to spend a couple of days here, two three days. But then, anyway. It wasn’t planned out a long time in advance, but I have a commitment to go to the Middle East before the Rgb meeting in Baroda. And it is very hard now to get the booking to the Middle East because it is the end of the school holidays. So everybody – and the children wants to go back now. And we hadn’t planned it. We planned a visit, we didn’t plan the booking. Didn’t anticipate. So now the booking is such a time where it cuts into the Bangalore time also. We had to come here finally and visit that later.

Devotees: Haribol!!!

GuruMahārāja: I am looking for, like I was thinking it would be nice, I haven’t had for a couple of years a meeting with the whole, the management, whatever the leadership team we have here. And see the vision for a Bangalore congregation. I would like to see the master plan, vision statements. You didn’t have ratha yātra either. We have a number of them now.

Devotee: We had some mini ratha yātras now. Major one in your presence.

GuruMahārāja: No, but you should negotiate that. So I am under very big trouble because some people in some parts of the world to get me to visit, they bombard me with fifty emails. They make a big effort. So, sometimes we don’t get, just you know, Prabhupāda says whatever bird chirps the loudest, the mother feeds them. Sometimes because of lack of chirping, I think, Bangalore doesn’t get its fair share. [laughter]

Devotee: Especially this year, three sixty five days….

GuruMahārāja: No chirping! [laughter] But we were spoiled at that time in Māyāpur because Prabhupāda would come twice a year. Other temples, I don’t know what they had to do to get Prabhupāda to visit. This was, they had to really put on a big festival or something. I don’t know what they had to do. But, we were very fortunate. He would come, because that was his project. He was like the real Temple President of Māyāpur and GBC. He would have me send him reports every two weeks. If I didn’t send a report, he would write, Jayapatāka Swāmi, where is your report? That was a kind of. Then one time I sent him a picture. He said, ‘What’s happening with my building?’ So I sent him the picture of the – we got the bricks, the stone chips, everything. So I sent a picture of the stone chips where he wrote back and he said, ‘Well I don’t want to see the picture of the stone chips. I want to see the picture of the completed building. What is the chips going to do?’(laughter)

Devotee: Question not clear.

I don’t know. West Bengal and South Bengal  are somewhat allergic to ISKCON but may be they are doing something with Fort. But ISKCON is supposed to be completely silent. [13:53 not clear] Something with family post [13:59 not clear] and then [14:02 not clear] they  are the first capitalists. Only Hare Kṛṣṇas[ 14:06 not clear] We haven’t cultivated them from ISKCON side, it appears. But I don’t know, I didn’t see them anywhere for two days now. But something, something is favourable. Prabhupāda wanted spiritual city, and he wanted the Temple of Vedic Planetarium. He gave that name. He said government will not like to approve temple in India. So call it a Vedic Planetarium. And in the Vedic Planetarium you should show the spiritual world, Goloka dhāma and we show the Haridhāma, Devidhāma and Maheshdhāma, you know. We also show the universe and in the material world, we show like this Kṛṣṇa in Goloka dhāma and there will be also Kṛṣṇa in the material world. So, the deities are Kṛṣṇa’s avatāra into the material world. As part of this planetarium, we are showing Kṛṣṇa’s - it is really kind of a transcendental cosmotarium, as it is showing the whole cosmos, the whole existence, all the dimensions. So part of it is dedicated to the scientific presentation and part of it is dedicated to the transcendental dimensions. We are not going into all those details with the government at this point. Just want to do the Planetarium. But this is going to be a unique temple – planetarium.

So Prabhupāda, you know, he would visit – that time we just had one building and there was a big open fields. And Prabhupāda was very concerned that children shouldn’t go hungry. After Govardhan pūja one year, there was – Prabhupāda was in Māyāpur for Govardhan pūja that year, and there is a mountain of rice. That means that sometimes Prabhupāda was in Māyāpur for the month of Kārtika. I used to go to Vrindāvana for the month of Kārtika….come to Māyāpur. You know….. it is also non-different from Vrindāvana. So that year Prabhupāda was in Māyāpur and it was Govardhan pūja which was definitely in the month of  - which is the month?

Devotees: Kārtik!

GuruMahārāja: Kārtika. And he was trying to take rest but there were a lot of dogs barking. So he got up. Somehow I – they called to me and I was there by good fortune and the dogs – there was – after the feast there was a big pile of the leaf plates thrown outside. So the dogs were trying to go and eat the scraps. But there were some village children with sticks herding the cows. They were picking from the leaves themselves and eating people’s remnants of what they had thrown. And they were fighting with the - they were like you know, the lion tamer – keeping away the lion, they were pushing back the dogs with the stick - fighting the dogs over the people thrown – what they threw out. So Prabhupāda saw that, he started crying. He said how hungry they must be to eat. First of all, who eats other people’s - what they throw. And then they had to fight with the dogs over it. So he was crying and he said that we should see that nobody goes hungry within ten miles of our temple. And we should have regular praśād distribution. So that was on that occasion. Śrīla Prabhupāda was very merciful to people.

He insisted everybody had to be clean. He said you can take first class people, second class people, third class people, even fourth class people, but not fifth class people. Because fifth class people are dirty. Fourth at least they are clean and hard workers. We don’t want  dirty people. You know one  time in a class Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying the Jai om prayers. All the devotees are bowing down and there was a group of Indian pilgrims – Indian visitors just standing there. [laughter] Prabhupāda said Jai om Viṣṇu , you know, – they were just standing. Prabhupāda stopped and said “Bow down.” [Laughter] “Bow down.” They were like shocked, you know. And He was insisting, “Bow down.” They bowed down.[laughter]

That reminds me of the song Boy George sang, ”Bow down, Mister”, that was from Bangalore to Bombay or Bombay to Bangalore. Something Bangalore is mentioned in there. You have heard that song?

Devotee: Yeah.

GuruMahārāja: It is old now. We got inspired, “Bow down, Mister.” It was quite popular for a while. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. Prabhupāda He was like “Bow down, Bow down.” He was saying that people should come to temple, they should be clean. Even they can have  A facility like a public bath. People who want to come to the temple, give them a bath, give them a cloth. He didn’t like people wear lungis to the temple. I don’t know exactly why. But He wanted people to preferably wear dhotis or pants.

Sometimes we had a group of Nepali brāhmins, who were quite good at chanting mantras, they composed a special mantra for Prabhupāda. So they would chant the mantra, Prabhupāda would listen from upstairs and go down. Today is initiation. I remember that Prabhupāda one time He was walking out of the temple, grabbed me by the arm, He told me that -  because I was the President, Co-director, so He said for recommending people for initiation, you can be very – you can be a little lenient on the first initiation. But you should be very strict on the second. So, if you don’t pass your second initiation test, don’t look for mercy. In Bangladesh we had one person who failed the test six times. Seventh time he got initiated. Actually there is a checklist of what people should do. You can download it from the website. JPS office is back online now. We forgot to pay our domain fee. So it was offline for a while. That checklist for the first and second - they are - and so one of the things in the list is to read the First Canto Bhāgavatam and to also read the Bhagavad Gīta and a few other books. It is remarkable how many people don’t do their reading. Even if they do most of the time, I take pledge – ok, finish the rest in three months. But at some point I am going to just  lay the law….if I don’t read it, come back next time. Prabhupāda told me I had to read Bhagavad Gīta ten times.

Devotees: Haribol!

GuruMahārāja: Before first initiation. [laughter] I am saying ten times. And I read it. I have a Bhagavad Gīta where I got - one two three four – click , one two three four – click. No, no, what, I got initiated after six months, after reading. I wanted initiation bad, I was reading it all the time, every spare moment, to complete it. Within six months I have completed it – ten times.

Devotees: Haribol!!

GuruMahārāja: Bhagavad Gīta is such a wonderful book. I was teaching a degree course. Two credits I got from my Bhagavad Gīta course from McGill University and Loyola University. If you read the Bhagavad Gīta, again and again, Prabhupāda  has given it so perfect, you can become a professor or lecturer, lecturer, I wasn’t professor, lecturer. I didn’t know the difference those days. So, it is very important people should read Prabhupāda’s books. Some people are illiterate. So, we have to make some exceptions, but I don’t think there is too many illiterate people in Bangalore. The rural areas, we get illiterate people. Even then the illiterate people have their children read to them the Bhagavad Gīta. Because the children are educated nowadays. So they read it – they get purified also. So, reading the Gīta, the Bhāgavatam – I know one guru, he requires before he gives first initiation, you have to read all of Prabhupāda’s books. It takes some people six years before they get initiated. I thought that was - I don’t want to be too creative. We will stick with what Prabhupāda said – Bhagavad Gīta, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam - First Canto. But some way I have a – I just have first initiation Bhāgavatam - Bhagavad Gīta, twice, for the second initiation thrice. Some people can’t read Bhāgavatam – it is important. It is our main book. Especially for preaching. I walked into the room once and I was surprised that Prabhupāda was reading. I thought Prabhupada knows everything, why does He have to read? But He was reading. You know what He was reading? Bhagavad Gīta! Reading his own book. Even He got inspired from reading his Bhagavad Gīta, because He says Kṛṣṇa was speaking through Him. He has realised all the things Kṛṣṇa was speaking through Him. So He was reading his Bhagavad Gīta, so - for better preaching.

I remember one devotee told me that in the very beginning when Prabhupāda started preaching in 26, 2^nd Avenue, He looked through the window and the window had a kind of screen at the bottom. From the top you could actually see inside. He looked inside and he saw Swāmiji there, preaching away, moving his hands, you know. ‘Wow, I am missing the class. The way he was preaching must be like the room packed with people, listening to his dynamic lecture.’ Then he came into the room and saw there was nobody there. [laughter]. Prabhupāda was preaching to an empty room, it appeared. And then he bowed down. “So, who are you preaching to? There is nobody here.”

“What do you mean nobody here? Brahmā, Indra, all the devās, everyone is here listening to class.”

Devotees: Hariiibol!!

GuruMahārāja: Prabhupāda was giving deva class. [laughter] Śrīla Prabhupāda Ki…

Devotees: Jaya!!

GuruMahārāja: Now Śrīla Prabhupāda is still preaching through his books, through his followers. Indeed, everyone has to be a - nimitta mātreṇa, as a instrument in the hand of guru and Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa. It  is like Kṛṣṇa speaks through you. Prabhupāda speaks through you. Guru paramparā uses you - giving all this message. You know, here everybody is busy. I think in the whole world, in the modern world everybody is busy always. Did I show you the – my presentation of the report for the congregational development? Mission and strategic planning. I showed that at a different place. I could show. I showed in at the ICC meeting in Patna. One of the slides shows about the Jehovah witnesses. They are active here also in South India, may be all over India. So, they have a website. And in the website, they have a commitment from all the people who are the active members. They have two million active members, four million, six million, I don’t know but - so, the average commitment they get is two hundred hours per year. Two hundred hours a year of active preaching. So that’s about how much for a month? Eighteen hours a month? Eighteen, twenty hours a month. Five hours a week. Some people of course, they would give us the average. Some people give less some people more , But they also give in a report. Everybody has to turn in their monthly score sheet. How many hours they spent distributing books, doing [32:26 not clear]preaching, doing active propagation. Not, just not going to the church, this is for preaching. Then they also keep track – how many hours then people gave to making one conversion. They said in - Nepal two thousand hours – it takes for every convert. To convert one Hindu in Nepal 2000 hours. But to convert somebody in Japan – 18,000 hours. I showed this to the World Hindu Federation – how they are keeping track, how they are converting. They were naturally very excited. Because they don’t know –  they don’t like conversion. I said, ”Prabhupāda, we don’t convert people, we convince them.” [Laughter] We never tell people they have to give up whatever their other religion is. But we just convince them to practise Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not against the – Prabhupāda said that this is a post-graduate study. Christianity, Islam is like primary school, secondary. So you graduate into your secondary school, to the college. You don’t renounce what you learnt in secondary school but you go to learn more. So we never make people renounce [34:05 not clear] Jesus is a guru, that he  is a great soul, he is a mahātma. But, he said love God, he didn’t know how to do it. We know how to do it, follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s process. So, quite a positive, you know – normally sectarian, but His way was very universal. In fact he told us in Māyāpur, that we could even have the Muslims stay in the āśramā and perform their five namāz. But they had to chant sixteen rounds, be vegetarian. So far I have not seen anybody perform namāz there. But we do have some people Islamic followers chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I was just in Bosnia. Most of the devotees there are from Islamic background. It is not against the Quran. Whether we know now that Bhagavad Gīta and Quran is not in contradiction. This Bhagavad Gīta has more information. So, when I am going to read the Bhagavad Gīta, that is very important. Whatever your background, whether you are brāhmaṇās, Christians or Muslims or śūdras or whatever it is, vaiṣṇavās are all transcendental. So we are trying to transcend people from the caste system, from the sectarian system. Between one world caste, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, pure devotee of God, haribhakta. That was the prediction of the Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa, ekavarṇa, haribhakta. After 5000 years it will be a golden era where the whole world will become ekavarṇa - one varṇa – haribhakta. So still Prabhupāda’s formula can achieve that. That was – he didn’t offend anybody. But he brought people up to the standards to become haribhaktās.

So very happy that you had a wonderful celebration of Vyāsa Pūja and Janmāśṭami. In spirit, I was with you.

Audience: Haribol!!

GuruMahārāja: Since today we are having initiations, actually doing interviews, so I don’t want to use the time improperly and make a fall behind. It would be a quite good record if we could be on time. I came two hours early so it will start on the right foot.

We had to – I had to promise Chennai some other evening transit program in lieu of the Bhāgavatam class tomorrow bargaining over the scheduling. How are all of you? Who’s doing ok in your Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Raise your hands and say Haribol!

Devotees: Haribol!!!

GuruMahārāja: Who could do better?

Devotees: Haribol!!

GuruMahārāja: We can always do better.

Devotee: August 2^nd we had a mass program.

GuruMahārāja: Vāstu program?

Devotee: Mass program. Three hundred people were there. At present, sixty are here. Twenty four are chanting. We did in Nāgavarapālya.

GuruMahārāja: Very Good. A big progress, that helps. Where? Where?

Devotee: Nāgavarapalya.

GuruMahārāja: [repeating] Nagavarapalya? You are telling me. You haven’t shown me. I want to see the photo. We should get everybody’s report, so that Bangalore can be [39:25 not clear] in all the vrindās, all the bhakti vrikśās, all the public programs,  in everybody’s reports and then send them in to the Congregational preaching newsletter.

Devotee: Last year about thousand children participated in competitions. I mean, 9000 children.

GuruMahārāja: How many points you get for 9000 children participating in temple? Educational program. One person per, that is 9000 points.

Devotee: We did it in nine different places.

GuruMahārāja: She has the scoresheet?  You see, for educational program for the youth, there is also points. Each youth that participates - one point. So if you have 9000, you get 9000 points. Tough to beat that.

Devotee saying something. [Not clear]

GuruMahārāja: How many go there?

Devotee: We don’t know the number.  Where they come from? We still accommodate  them. Everyone. And many parents they came. Fifty percent of the parents [41:23 not clear] about three times the crowd which came last time. And very interesting - Muslim kids they chant ślokās like anything. Praśādam was distributed this time for three days.

GuruMahārāja: Three days non-stop praśādam?

Devotee: Non-stop praśādam, Dry praśādam.

GuruMahārāja: People would come in again and again. [laughter]

Devotee: And this time the donna, what we call, the container was two and a half times bigger than what we did last time. Just like a meal.

GuruMahārāja: Type of kichdi. That bisibelebāth? You can’t talk about all this. It is Ekādaśi. [ laughter]

Devotee: It looks like the Hindus, they are in the comfort zone.

GuruMahārāja: Yeah that is it. The problem with - I told the World Hindu Federation. You have two kinds of – three kinds of countries. We have countries where there is a majority of Hindus, like in the Nepal, India, Mauritius. And what happens is that the majority, they come like comfort zone. They take it for granted they are being Hindu, they know, it is not a big issue for them. So many of them don’t know, they are not that active in knowing about their own culture. We have some places where there is fifty – fifty. Like in Guyana, Trinidad, there is fifty percent Hindus, fifty percent Africans or Christians, whatever. Then you have other countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh. There, Hindus are minority. To be a Hindu, it’s, it’s an issue. Sometimes, in some countries, you get persecution, you don’t get the same breaks as the majority - you are the minority group. I remember one time in Bangladesh, I got off the train in a place called Mymensingh and there was a group of very - lawyers, doctors, senior people. And they said, ” Welcome, from the minority group.” [laughter] This is to be – Hindu names, you had to sacrifice promotions, you had to fear that your daughter may be kidnapped, so many issues are there. Because the other community boys like the Hindu girls better. So it is always – many things big – so it is a big issue for them. So they have – they are very eager to know about their own culture. They are very eager. What to speak of other people, no, they like to know also in India – probably some of the minority community would like to know what is Hindu dharma. They may get to know more about it, than some of the Hindus. Like Max Mueller – he learnt Hindu dharma in order to defeat the Hindus. Whether it’s for defeating them or they get convinced and they like it - we don’t know, but how to get the Hindus – the people born in this culture to take up their own culture seriously, we have a different agenda. In other countries, where it is a minority, how to keep them enlivened, how to keep their spirits, so they don’t leave. Because there is always an opportunity for them. There are many perks for them in some places. Probably, one of the few countries where the minorities have got, I would say, more of an equal chance is Indonesia. They were praising that in that country it is quite – a little better situation for them.

But anyway, so – I mean so many young Indian students, when I asked them, “Have you read the Bhagavad GIta?” and you know, some of them never opened it, never touched it. And if they did, that means, may be in some school, they learnt one ślokā,

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

That is one verse they learn and then that’s it. They don’t –  that’s it, that is their Bhagavad Gīta. The other seven hundred and some verses, you know, are out of their scope. They don’t know what it says.

Devotee: [Not clear….] films.

GuruMahārāja: Mahābhāratha film. It always starts with that

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

Devotees: [Laughter]There is one more śloka also.

karmaṇy evādhikāras te

Do your karma. Don’t give fruits. Do your karma. They know half the śloka. Where they go to the shop -

GuruMahārāja: They just know half the śloka. ‘Do your karma.” They should take the fruits [Laughter] Yeah, you should say, the shopkeeper should say, ‘Give us the fruit.’ To the tax collector, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Yeah the second half. You should give the fruits to Kṛṣṇa. That part they don’t remember. At least we should do our work. We are doing our work. It is spoken. You should dedicate the results of the work. You have a right to do your work but you don’t have a right to - right to the result. Result belongs to God. So we are coming on behalf of God to collect the results, to use for Janmāśṭami festival. [laughter]

Anybody has a question from here?

Ok, thank you very much. We have another class tonight, interviews during the day. More interviews after initiation. Maybe, we will see if I can have a class tomorrow morning. [Haribol!!] Early class. Early.

Proofread by: Srivani Mataji

Date:14/Dec/2020