Jayapatākā Swami: When we say, “Take prasāda, you get human birth”, some people got prasāda and got liberated.

So, in describing the glories of prasāda… The kṛṣṇa-prasāda, you cannot put a limit on it.

Some people by just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa once, they got liberation like Ajāmila.

Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, more sins, sinful reactions of karma are eradicated than one can commit.

At the same time someone may chant Hare Kṛṣṇa for a thousand… and then not actually go back to Kṛṣṇa.

How is that possible?

So, the thing is that one is not supposed to doubt that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, this effect has come.

That means potentially it may come for anyone.

But then each person’s situation being different, that a person if he is very offensive, even they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take prasāda, and they offend devotees, because of those offenses, Kṛṣṇa, He may just withhold His mercy.

An offense being directly con.. An offense and sinful reaction are different – a person may be the most sinful, maybe a murderer, maybe a rapist, may be... but that is all on the material platform.

That is in relation to other people’s material bodies.

It is not in relation to God.

So, the reaction they have to get is also material.

They have to suffer materially for whatever suffering they are committing on their body and to other’s bodies.

But when an offence, means directly in relation to… with God or those who are directly in relation to Him, His pure devotees;

so therefore, what the... the most overpowering thing about everything is Kṛṣṇa’s mercy.

That mercy can destroy all the material reactions, and just give one a clean slate, bring one back to Godhead.

But if one is directly opposing God, even that He can forgive, but sometimes if you directly offend His devotees,

then Kṛṣṇa… that’s so disapproved by Him that then He may withhold His mercy to that person till he gets out of the habit of offending His devotees or whatever offense he is committing.

So, in that way, if a person is offense-less, then by taking prasāda, one may even be liberated, one may even achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Depending on the offenses, lack of offenses and so many conditions, one is delivered.

One may be sincerely trying to find the truth or just ordinary material acts, an innocent person, not very inimical to God,

but just trying to enjoy his senses, trying to enjoy the senses and be happy was misled, wandering here and there trying to enjoy in different ways

and not succeeding, gets association with devotees, they give prasāda, they give spiritual advice, he starts to, the person starts to chant and then automatically they feel immediately advancement.

Another person may have, you see... they are very inimical to the devotees.

As a result, the effect may be reduced.

This offense is the most dangerous thing.

Next dangerous is of course bad habits and all that, after we have chanted.

Once one takes up seriously the chanting, one should try to avoid as far as possible unauthorized activities because they would delay one’s progress.

So, by taking prasāda, that ultimately what that person can be guaranteed a human birth.

But there may be an exception if he is exceptionally offensive to devotees.

In general, one would be guaranteed at least a human birth.

And one may even get a greater benefit by taking prasāda.

If he takes prasāda, the person is purified of all reactions.

Says an offense where he takes prasāda, he is purified and then again, the next minute again he takes more, he does more karmas, more work that he has to take the reaction for.

So, because of those reactions they have to take birth at least they get a human birth.

But if after taking prasāda they did not perform any more materialistic activities, then they could go back to Godhead.

Jayapatākā Swami: You see, Navadvīpa we get the same benefit as we get in Vṛndāvana.

A thousand times.

But there is a difference.

In Vṛndāvana for every error you make,

you also get a thousand times the reaction.

If you commit some offence in Vṛndāvana

you get a thousand times the offence.

Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī decided that Vṛndāvana was a bit heavy

because he got multiple offences.

So he walked from Vṛndāvana to Navadvīpa

and here he got a siddha-deha,

that is why he is known as Siddha Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī.

Maybe he would not have got his perfection

so quickly in Vṛndāvana.

Anyway, some aspects are the same

and some aspects are different.

Now Vṛndāvana is known as mādhurya-dhāma

and Navadvīpa is known as audārya-dhāma.

Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī said in the Upadeśāmṛta

that one should live in a holy place,

so that could be in a dhāma or in a nearby temple.

So, that kind of desire is authorized. 

Jayapatākā Swami: You see if you are mood is such that you go back to Godhead,

that means you got some mercy from your guru.

I spent so many weeks giving class so that people could get an idea of my mood.

What do you think?

Jayapatākā Swami: That is wishful thinking!

Do you ever find 100% of the people receptive?

There are always a few who are attached to their material things.

This is in our planet, what to speak of other planets?

I mean, in the lower planets they are very much demoniac.

But anyway, that is not a problem.

If you make everybody a devotee, very good! Kṛṣṇa will not complain.

But there will always be some who will not be interested.

You have the animals, the birds, the trees, the fish,

if you can make all of them Kṛṣṇa conscious, very good!

At least Lord Caitanya He had all the animals chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So if we can at least get the human beings to be Kṛṣṇa conscious that would be a good thing. 

Jayapatākā Swami: If people get permission from their spiritual master, maybe they can take a bath in the Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

But one has to know the process.

You should be very respectful.

Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Jayapatākā Svāmī: Without being married.

Ah, there is no such stipulation that liberation is dependent upon getting married.

But it has been recommended very strongly that women should be married.

But as far as being… What if a girl dies when she is twelve, or something?

It’s not, it’s not lean on the soul that you have to get married to go back to Godhead.

It’s a question of what consciousness you’re in when you leave your body.

If you’re in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you’ll go back to Godhead.

In a general sadhana practice of devotional service,

it’s conducive for women to be married and have a Kṛṣṇa conscious husband.

If the husband is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is a problem.

But actually, the husband should be Kṛṣṇa conscious and the wife should be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

In this way, they give each other association.

I can elaborate.

But we’re on short of time right now.

But it’s not contingent on going back to Godhead, per se.

That is not contingent on any material thing.

It’s contingent on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, serving the spiritual master, following his instructions.

Hare Krsna.

Jayapatākā Swami: Since the name of Kṛṣṇa is not different from Kṛṣṇa,

somehow by chanting the names of Kṛṣṇa,

one may also achieve the highest perfection.

But a sure way is if possible, is for you to take initiation from the authorized guru-paramparā,

and then in that way serve Kṛṣṇa.

You see Kṛṣṇa gives you the opportunity to take initiation.

If out of false ego you don’t do it,

then it is not really Kṛṣṇa’s fault.

So if He is giving us some help, we should take it.

During this lockdown period

I am also giving initiation on the internet by zoom.

And other gurus are also doing the same thing.

So if one is qualified, they could take initiation.

Don’t have to wait for the guru to physically come there.

Jayapatākā Swami: Why do you say just? Just...

Kṛṣṇa and His holy names are not different.

So it is not a small thing

to chant the holy names.

And certainly, Kṛṣṇa can do anything.

So He can also take you back to His kingdom.

Therefore, we should chant His holy names and engage in His sevā.

Jayapatākā Swami: In our major temples in Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur, in Bombay

we don’t purchase any store-bought fruits uh these where store-bought sweets.

In the smaller temples sometime, they purchase.

Of course, purchasing is that has got some other implications.

Purchasing is sometime allowed.

but that would be considered to be not as perfect as if we could make the things ourselves,

because, they are not having any pure standard.

We don’t know what type of, actually technically speaking store-bought things which are made outside by non-devotees,

they are not… even in the West, we don’t also offer fruit juice.

We make the juice ourselves,

because whether that people are washing their hands after they are going in bathroom,

or something like that, or what they’re doing, you don’t know, what standard they have.

There are many rules, you see.

If you go to the bathroom, you have to take an entire shower.

The same cloth you shouldn’t use, if you are going to cook for the Deity.

If people are negligent of this, they will get worse than sinful reactions.

They will get offensive reactions from Kṛṣṇa.

Their devotion will be stuck up.

And for preaching sometime, you can pray to Kṛṣṇa that for preaching sometimes, we have to just do these things,

and there is no alternative.

But normally one should be very careful.

It’s an opportunity to get the blessing; it’s an opportunity at the same time if you are not careful to also get punished.

So, we should be very careful when we do these things to do it properly.

Jayapatākā Swami: In our major temples in Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur, in Bombay

we don’t purchase any store-bought fruits uh these where store-bought sweets.

In the smaller temples sometime, they purchase.

Of course, purchasing is that has got some other implications.

Purchasing is sometime allowed.

but that would be considered to be not as perfect as if we could make the things ourselves,

because, they are not having any pure standard.

We don’t know what type of, actually technically speaking store-bought things which are made outside by non-devotees,

they are not… even in the West, we don’t also offer fruit juice.

We make the juice ourselves,

because whether that people are washing their hands after they are going in bathroom,

or something like that, or what they’re doing, you don’t know, what standard they have.

There are many rules, you see.

If you go to the bathroom, you have to take an entire shower.

The same cloth you shouldn’t use, if you are going to cook for the Deity.

If people are negligent of this, they will get worse than sinful reactions.

They will get offensive reactions from Kṛṣṇa.

Their devotion will be stuck up.

And for preaching sometime, you can pray to Kṛṣṇa that for preaching sometimes, we have to just do these things,

and there is no alternative.

But normally one should be very careful.

It’s an opportunity to get the blessing; it’s an opportunity at the same time if you are not careful to also get punished.

So, we should be very careful when we do these things to do it properly.

Jayapatākā Swami: I saw a skit in Chennai which the youths were performing.

Two children were playing the part of Yamadūtas.

One girl was playing the part of Yamarāja, she painted a mustache.

The Yamadūtas are responsible to arrest sinful people and take them to hell and torture them.

They complained to Yamarāja!

These ISKCON devotees are preaching, and householders are taking kṛṣṇa-prasāda in their homes.

They chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

They worship Deities in their house.

They come to the temple and worship Deities in the temple.

They read Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam!

We cannot touch them!

If everyone becomes like this, we will be out of job!

If you want to keep Yamadūtas busy, don’t take kṛṣṇa-prasāda!

Don’t chant Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Don’t read Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Don’t come to the temple.

The Yamadūtas will be very happy!

But if you want to give the Yamadūtas a vacation, do all these things!

Haribol!

So who wants to give the Yamadūtas a vacation?

Jayapatākā Swami: Lord Caitanya, He showed,

He offered His obeisances,

He circumambulated,

and with great respect He honored the prasāda.

What more can I say?

Jayapatākā Swami: You see, there are five kinds of liberation.

Sāyujya, merging, devotees don’t want that.

Then there is sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi and sārūpya.

Having similar form like the Lord,

living on the same planet,

having personal service of the Lord,

living close to the Lord.

Devotees accept the other four, if it includes service,

and they ask the Lord for His service.

Generally, we go to the spiritual world to serve the Lord.

But if He wants us to be with Him in the material world, it is alright if He have His service.

So that way, devotees ask for service.

And naturally if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then Kṛṣṇa takes us back.

Then we can serve Him eternally.

We don’t mind where we serve Him, here, there or anywhere.

However we serve the Lord, we are very happy.

We see, how Lord Caitanya, He came only 500 years ago.

We have more details.

And how the devotees were serving the Lord,

how He was reciprocating.

Then naturally one if one develops their Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are very inspired

Are you inspired?

Alright!

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda said both things.

But more often he said, we fall from the spiritual world,

and that is why our magazine is, Back to Godhead.

So, there is a whole book on this.

At different times, different things were said.

When the question was given to Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura,

if we came from the spiritual world,

why did we decide to come here?

He said, a person falls from the ship

and a lifeboat comes to save him.

Are you going to ask first, before I get into the boat, tell me how did I come here?

Sharks are spinning all around.

First you get on the lifeboat, then you will understand how you fell.

We don’t understand any way.

Jayapataka Swami: I answered this question yesterday.

So many are here on Zoom.

If we have initiation and follow the bona fide guru, then our road to Kṛṣṇa is sure.

If one meets a bona fide guru, but he does not take initiation out of false ego,

then that is an obstacle.

If one does not meet a guru and he reads Śrīla Prabhupāda books, follows,

then there is no problem.

Some people think I don’t need a guru

and if they meet a bona fide guru they don’t take shelter.

So, that could be an obstacle.

There are all kinds of circumstances.

Generally, one should have a bonafide spiritual master

and should take initiation.

In this way, should perform their devotional service following the instructions of their guru.

Haribol!

Jayapatākā Swami: Prabhupāda said, if a person follows the process of Kṛṣṇa conscious then they can.

If one wants to take birth again in the material world, no.

How free you are from things like offences, may dictate how high you can go in spiritual world.

Whether we get place in Vaikuntha? Whether we get a place in Goloka Vṛndāvana? How I am will able to go?

Or, I mean if a person, I had one person, approached me in India, he was a real strange character.

He said that, “I have been chanting 32 or 20 or 16 rounds for 26 years.

But never gave up eating fish.”

Neutral position that we were discussing today, he reciprocates with the person so perfectly,

that if someone would do something like that because of their offences to chanting, while chanting the holy name,

but they don’t actually make advancement, towards pure love for Kṛṣṇa.

They are getting some benefit from chanting,

but at the same time they are material heart, their material desires aren’t going due to being absorbed in sense gratification like that.

So I advised him that, you should chant the names of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

and by His mercy you may be able to overcome this desire of eating fish.

And sure enough after chanting Lord Caitanya’s names for some period of time, he got some spiritual intelligence, and he could stop eating fish.

Even though for 26 years he was on his weird practice, where although chanting he never tried to avoid breaking that,

you know, stopping breaking that regulative principle.

So if a person, I mean if he is determined, you know, alright, I am going to chant 16 rounds and I am going to follow the four principles,

but if they take things in an attitude that I’m determined not to give up my material attachments,

then that’s anachronism, you know.

From our side it should be not just externals, but it should be internal, that we are trying to follow the process.

We are trying from our part to give up our attachments.

If we have the proper attitude, we are trying to give up our attachments, we are trying to avoid, even if we arenot fully successful.

Prabhupāda said, “There is… That Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, that Lord Caitanya is so merciful,

even though we may not at the point of death have been a hundred percent successful.

We can still get delivered.”

[Aside: How long I should go on ?]

I was in Montreal, and Prabhupāda was giving a lecture, that time we had a vyasāsana for him was very high.

I mean, very, it was like, when we would stand up, we would be facing Prabhupāda eye to eye,

or he would still be even higher than that.

It was a very high vyasāsana, and you have to kind of crawl up, steps going up.

[Aside: It was more like a kind of a culpit.

Culpit or something?

Devotee: Pulpit]

Pulpit, Pulpit.

So he would be up there, he would have a seat there and would even have prasādathere.

On a feast they would bring him a big plate of prasāda, we will all be sitting down,

and he would take Prasad from there and sometimes he would give prasāda out from there.

So one day he was giving his lecture from up there naturally,

and on this point he was just preaching very hard, we have to be a 100% Kṛṣṇa conscious,

we have to try, we have to be 100% Kṛṣṇa conscious, we have to try for that,

we have to become, if we are 100% Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we can get pure love for Kṛṣṇa, then our lives will be completely successful.

He was hammering this point.

The devotees you know thinking, 100%! Their heads gradually started to hanging down and they became very thoughtful,

that 100% was like such an objective that never seem that this ever possible, even you know, to get real close to a 100%.

But Prabhupāda was very emphatic on this point.

The devotees were very thoughtful at that time.

Then Prabhupāda, he ended the class, there was just a heavy silence, there was no question,

he ended the class, said become cent percent Kṛṣṇa conscious.

There was just like a death.

I mean there was a silence so thick you could swim through it.

And Prabhupāda was just sitting there on this, that raised 

vyasāsana and said that, even if you are 90% Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that you may still be delivered.

Then he started to get down, and he was about halfway down,

just as he was getting off that vyasāsana, he turned to the devotees, said, “Even 90% you can be delivered.”

He started walking off, then he turned and then his cādara fell off.

I remember that it was such a dramatic, almost like you know what you see in those movies;

Julies Caesar his chaddar just blew like that you know.

“Even 70%”, he took his cādara and threw it over his shoulders, raised his head and walked off…

(laughter)

Śrīla Prabhupāda Ki!

Devotees: Jaya!

Jayapataka Swami: But the purport is that try for the 100%.

Jayapatākā Swami: There are no hard and fast rules.

Once, someone was taking all the mahā-prasāda from all the guests.

Śrīla Prabhupāda said, you said take from the devotees.

If you take from new people and you get sick, it is not auspicious.

Be a little selective!

Jayapatākā Swami: Normally, a Vaiṣṇava is not supposed to leave remnants.

But a guru may leave some remnants for disciples.

But there is no hard and fast rule regarding mahā-prasāda.

Śrīla Prabhupāda gave a Gulab jamun to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami.

He kept it on his plate and he was looking at it.

He was very proud and was thinking that I have got Śrīla Prabhupāda’s Gulab jamun wow! Wow! Gulab jamun! Wow!

Someone reached over and ate it!

He said, you took my Gulab jamun!

And Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami was very angry.

Śrīla Prabhupāda, he said, actually there are no rules when it comes to mahā-prasāda.

And even if you take from my plate, what can I do?

But please let me finish!

Jayapatākā Swami: The gṛhasthas need to keep Kṛṣṇa in the center

and by offering their food to Kṛṣṇa,

by doing regular ārati to the deities,

reading certain amount of śāstra,

all these things help to keep one fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Husband and wife should help each other

to think of Kṛṣṇa.

And you may have Deities in the house

and do the various devotional services

to keep your self Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Jayapatākā Swami: You see, in the walls here the words ‘Jaya Rādhe’.

So Navadvīpa was made by Rādhārāṇī.

And when Kṛṣṇa went there, He said, “Oh, you have created this beautiful dhāma for Me!

I will bring all the holy places here, so this should be non-different from Vṛndāvana.”

And Kṛṣṇa united with Rādhā and took the heart of Rādhā and Her color.

So He became Gaurāṅga.

With the heart of Rādhārāṇī and He was golden color like Rādhārāṇī.

So how do we know? Because Kṛṣṇa said it is non-different from Vṛndāvana.

Jayapatākā Swami: It is like a multiple question.

You can be in Vṛndāvana by being in Vṛndāvana.

And how to please Śrīla Prabhupāda and me? I am very pleased if you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

If you are studying Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books,

Śrīla Prabhupāda called that tapasyā in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

If you are distributing the mercy out that is also very pleasing.

And if you are doing Kṛṣṇa conscious sevās, there are nine types of sevās,

then that is also pleasing.

How to deal with the vraja-vāsīs?

What is the problem?

How to deal with the vraja-vāsīs in regard to job, work, and association?

She is saying vraja-vāsīs, if she is saying in regard to work she has to work for someone.

You are staying in Vṛndāvana, then you have to live with vraja-vāsīs.

I guess I would just encourage them, they are vraja-vāsīs, they are very fortunate.

That they are in Kṛṣṇa’s land,

so they should be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Otherwise, what is the use of being a vraja-vāsī.

Of course, when I installed the lotus feet this morning,

then afterwards a brāhmaṇa vraja-vāsī said I will help you to worship the Śyāma-kuṇḍa.

Then he took some water, sprinkled it,

tied a thread around my wrist.

And then he said, I am a poor brāhmaṇa, please give me some donation.

So I gave him some.

I saw in Māyāpur, sometimes during the season, the boys come up and say we are having a pūjā program in our pandal for Durgā-pūjā, please give us donation.

So I was thinking we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa every day

but Śrīla Prabhupāda said, “Alright, give them 10 rupees.”

So, they are taught they accept whatever they are given. So to make the long story short, just give them 10 rupees and Haribol!

So like that Śrīla Prabhupāda would sometimes give them something just to make them happy.

Jayapatākā Swami: Be a friend of Kṛṣṇa!

Many are friends in Vṛndāvana, Arjuna was also a friend.

Uddhava was a friend.

So, one can be a friend by following the footsteps of the friend.

Are you ready?

Jayapatākā Swami: Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.

I think the secret of getting up early is going to bed early.

Also, not eating too much at night,

eat light food.

If you eat heavy, then you sleep heavy.

So light food like poha or mūḍi

or something light.

And eat early.

I eat my dinner at 6 pm.

And then by the time I take rest it is digested.

So then I can get up for maṅgala-ārati every day.

Getting up at 3.30am is a bit early.

The brāhma-muhūrta starts one and a half hours before sunrise.

It is recommended that we should get up in the brāhma-muhūrta.

And that is a little later maybe. I don’t know what time the sun rises in Gujarat?

(approximately 6 am).

So 4.30am should be alright, take a bath.

Maṅgala-ārati starts at 4.30 am in Māyāpur.

What time does it start in Gujarat.

(4.30 am or something).

Anyway, the process is go to bed early and not eat too heavy.

And chant.

Jayapatākā Swami: Saṁbandha is understanding of our relationship that we are the servant of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Abhideya is engaging in that relationship.

And prayojana is achieving the perfection of life,

pure love of Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā Swami: Indirectly the trees, the cows, they are providing fruits, milk,

but they are not actively doing service.

Kṛṣṇa goes and milks them.

In one sense, okay they are contributing something,

but they are not like Hanumān, who is flying over the ocean and fighting with the demons.

The service of Kṛṣṇa, they really serve Kṛṣṇa.

We are not saying that the animals, the trees, they are not doing anything useful, they are useful.

But it is not that they do a lot of service.

They do their thing.

Produce fruit, produce milk.

I mean, I am sure the deer would go up and lick Kṛṣṇa.

Śānta-rasa means that they appreciate Kṛṣṇa.

One way you can say it is service.

But those who are in dāsya-rasa, they really do a lot of service.

Jayapatākā Swami: You see this material world is a temporary world, aśāśvatam.

And it is a place of suffering.

You can look up the Al Jazeera or TRT World or any other news stations,

you see all the difficulties.

Some countries there is flood,

some countries hurricanes, cyclone,

some country war,

some pandemic,

rising cases.

There is no old age, disease, birth or death in the spiritual world.

There everyone is related to Kṛṣṇa in a loving relationship.

Naturally, one feels loving ecstasy all the time.

So you have your choice. In this material world there is suffering, there is some lust,

temporarily you will satisfy your lust

and you think that is the goal of life.

But that is not what we are actually looking for.

What we are looking for is the spiritual world.

Free life,

free choice.

Spiritual bliss.

There you serve the Lord out of love.

Here you work for some office

because you make them money

and when you are not making money,

they lay you off,

they fire you!

It is a business relation, there is no love.

So it depends what you want.

If you are attracted by love and freedom of all kinds of suffering,

then that is the spiritual world.

Jayapatākā Swami: The Vrajavāsīs who understand their eternal servitude, relationship with Kṛṣṇa are above ordinary devotees,

because… even sometimes they may not be as strict… or say, as a… as a… under sādhana-bhaktas,

but because they’ve got some intimate relationship in terms of their being Vrajavāsīs, they… a lot of them can see themselves as servant of Kṛṣṇa.

They’re very connected, that way.

So, that way if a neophyte comes and starts to criticize them, then it can be an offense.

They may not be able to actually understand,

and it’s not so much the neophyte devotees,

but it’s the karmīs, they might not understand what’s special about… a very neophyte or karmī.

They may not understand and they may criticize.

Now, even the criticism might be to some extent just in some cases if it’s not their position,

and then they’re not able to see actually what is the good… the good quality of the person,

the person may… very very attached to Kṛṣṇa, but just due to the Kali-yuga is not , following everything perfectly,

but at the same time, in the ultimate issue, is very much connected with Kṛṣṇa.

So, that way, Prabhupāda said that generally one is supposed to go to the holy-dhāma three days,

because after three days, the glitter wears off, then you start finding fault with the dhāma-vasīs,

and that can be detrimental to one’s advancement.

I think that’s probably the rule that you were referring to.

Devotee: What was Prabhupāda saying there... that persons… people that go to Vṛndāvana,

they’re caught up by māyā and they can’t escape, in this life? There’s some mention of that.

Jayapatākā Swami: Who can’t escape?

What I just said, here?

Yeah… there, I said…

This is different.

These are the people that go to Vṛndāvana,

and imitate the six gosvāmīs,

imitating liberated souls who are not actually on that level.

Bhaktisiddhanta Ṭhākura put it another way… said that Mādhavendra Purī was no doubt a great devotee,

but he didn’t put on any of his emotions.

He wasn’t putting on any show, rather he was trying to avoid it, public attention, but it was coming anyway.

But, if someone tries to… He never cheated, to put on any false show, or even…

someone else puts on some kind of show, imitating Mādhavendra Purī,

it’s not only you know, bad taste, it’s very offensive actually.

So, that’s the thing that’s being criticized.

Not people… in this particular sense, people that imitate the pure devotees,

not someone who’s just a neophyte person who sits down and criticizes people born in the dhāma, or the dhāma, itself.

Prabhupāda didn’t say they’re not devotees, just kaniṣṭha-adhikārīs.

Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī normally doesn’t get liberation.

Have to (indistinct)… preach for our maximum purification.

Is that alright?

Jayapatākā Swami: You can take from any pure devotee.

Because if you take that of a guest or someone and you get sick that is not very auspicious.

But even if we get sick taking from some pure devotee that is glorified.

So, the prasāda or mahā-prasāda can be taken from someone, even if he is not your dīkṣā-guru.

Thank you Phaneśvarī Lakṣmī devī dāsī.

Jayapatākā Swami: You see here someone eats non veg.

Non veg is sinful.

You are killing animals, causing them suffering and you are eating their flesh.

Some are doing selfless service to society, they are helping other people, they may be doing some, of course selfless service to society.

But we have to see what the Vedas say.

Whether that service is puṇya or pāpa.

Like someone may do selfless service and make a new abattoir, means a new slaughter house for society.

He thinks I am doing selfless service.

But according to the Vedas, he is also doing pāpa, he is doing sinful activity.

Someone may be doing selfless service of distributing free tea or whisky to all the people, I am not considering those kinds of selfless service.

I am saying like he is feeding the poor, he is making hospital, such service where the people are getting material benefit in a sāttvika sense, that is called puṅya.

So according to Vedas we get two accounts in the material world.

We get a puṅya account and a pāpa account.

And we are putting deposit in both.

Because someone does puṇya, it does not cross out the pāpa.

Some people think that ok, I will do many pious activities and I will do little sin and the pious will cross out the sin.

It doesn’t work that way.

Both you get.

That is why even if you find someone very rich, have a big car, big house, lot of money, but the wife got breast cancer.

But the son ran away with someone and married out of caste and the whole family is suffering.

So many things happen.

Income tax is raiding.

I am feeding the poor, I am giving so much to charity, why I am not –

because both the accounts are there – pāpa and puṇya. If you do pāpa you have to suffer, you do puṇya you have to enjoy. Material activities, you know they are not free, you have to take all the reactions. Usually the puṇya you get first and the pāpa you get later. But there is some mixing going on. Now the other thing is that he is greatly devoted to the Lord. Now that devotion to the Lord, the Lord is beyond the material world. He is saying mām ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhuyāya kalpate. (Bg 14.26) That those who do my bhakti-yoga, their activities are beyond the three guṇas. So if someone does bhakti that can clear out the path. But it is dangerous to tell this to people. Because if you tell to people who are not devoted, they will say, very good, I will pray in the temple, then I will do more pāpa. And then Kṛṣṇa takes that as an offence, you are trying to cheat Me. So He doesn’t save them. That is why we don’t tell people about this glory of the Lord that if you worship the Lord it takes away your sin very much. Of course we have to tell but we try to tell them. They should not think I can do more sin, that they shouldn’t do. What people should do is come and pray and chant the name of Kṛṣṇa and try to avoid sin. They may do some sin but they should try to reduce it, try to avoid it. They should not think that by doing my Kṛṣṇa conscious activity, I can do more sin. Whatever sin I am doing, I have to suffer. But let me chant, let me worship, some day I can get free from this. Then it is ok. So if they are devoted to the Lord, they should try to do what the Lord wants. What is the meaning of I am devoted to the Lord, the Lord is saying don’t do these things. I am devoted to the Lord, what does that mean? Lord, I want to please You. If I am Your servant, I want to do what You want me to do. Like if you have a servant in the house, you tell the servant, clean the floor. He says no, I won’t clean the floor, I want to clean the wall. But I want you to clean the floor first. You can clean the wall later. He says, no, I want to clean the wall and then the floor. How would that servant keep the job? If you have a servant and you tell him, cook me breakfast. And he says no, I want to cook you lunch. I want you to cook me vegetarian and he says no I want to cook you non veg! Then you wont keep such a servant, servant, who is this servant! So if we are already devoted to the Lord, we should do what the Lord wants us to do. And the Lord is telling us don’t do these things. Don’t take intoxication, don’t eat non veg, don’t do gambling and don’t do illicit sex. Don’t go to prostitutes. Don’t leave your good wife or husband, and do extra marital sex. So when we are devoted to the Lord we should do what the Lord wants. We are devoted to the Lord, we come and pray and then we go. That is called hāthī-snāna. Like the elephant is having a bath and coming out and throwing the dirt. So we should not worry what others are doing. Someone says he is vegetarian but he is cheating.

If you do pāpa you have to suffer, you do puṅya you have to enjoy.

Material activities, you know they are not free, you have to take all the reactions.

Usually the puṇya you get first and the pāpa you get later.

But there is some mixing going on.

Now the other thing is that he is greatly devoted to the Lord.

So therefore I can be nonveg and I won’t cheat.

Not much, little bit.

We should avoid everything like that.

Don’t settle for that.

Don’t judge.

It is just like if you want to judge gold, you want to judge it with pure gold.

You don’t judge it with some mixed gold, my gold is better than that gold.

What is that?

That is 10 carat mine is 4 carat.

You judge gold by 24 carat.

This is not a good decision that I am better than that so it is okay.

That person is going to hell no. 5 and you are going no. 4.

So what is the difference?

?

We want to go back to Kṛṣṇa.

So therefore what is the standard paramahaṁsa?

We see what gurudeva, what the pure devotee is doing.

We try to lead our life and follow the Mahājanas.

Mahājana yena gatā sa panthā.

We follow the great souls or Mahājanas, like Prahlāda, Nārada, Śiva, Brahma.

All the devas, Svāyambhuva Manu, all the great souls, we follow in their footsteps.

Not that we are following some ordinary person and we are saying oh that person, he is not so great.

I am not so bad.

This is all mental concoction.

He is not so great, I am not so bad.

So I can live with my sin.

Yamarāja doesn’t pick all these things.

What your neighbor was doing.

What you did he has all the account here.

You did this, this is your karma.

Now you enjoy, now you suffer.

If you see the animatronic works you can see the Yamadūtas and the Viṣṇudutas.

You can decide who you want to be the customer for.

Jayapatākā Swami: Will they not chant?

Will they not have kṛṣṇa-prasāda?

Jayapatākā Swami: If they do book distribution all the time then what is the difficulty?

We have to always do some service or the other.

If they distribute books all the time, that is good.

Those who are in Māyāpur they cannot distribute books all the time.

They come and contribute in the ārati, they dance.

This way they do different services.

But if they do book distribution there all the time, what is the difficulty? It is even good.

But we have to always be doing one service or the other.

One cooks, if there is no cooking then we have a problem.

Like soldiers, one cooks, and one goes out. Similarly, our devotees also, someone cooks, and someone does some other service.

One will distribute prasāda.

If they say that we will not do any other service.

Those who distribute books can also do any other service.

But the time allocated for book distribution, they should do that.

But they can also distribute prasāda, and they should have prasāda. During ārati they should participate and do everything.

One service or the other we have to do.

As many books are distributed, it is good.

But all the time we should do one service.

Jayapatākā Swami: Since you are in Texas,

they have vegetables and fruits here.

Why are you thinking of hypothetical situations?

But just to answer your question,

there was a drought

and a sādhu, a great devotee, he was trying to get out of a desert.

But he had no water, no food.

He was crawling around

and he thought he might die.

Then he came across a dead dog,

so then he ate the dead dog.

Then he got out of the desert and then followed all the principles.

So Kṛṣṇa sent him some food,

and he did not kill the dog, the dog had already died,

but he ate it.

So like that, if you have no food, the only thing is you come across a dead animal, you eat it.

That would lead you to survive.

That is considered an emergency,

and emergency knows no rules.

It is not that there were so many dates and nice food and things, but he goes ahead and eats a dead dog.

It was, eat the dog or die.

So Kṛṣṇa sent a dead dog, he ate it

and survived,

and then he followed his principles after.

But it is very unlikely that you would meet such a situation.

I saw in some place people are eating cactus.

There is no food and they take out the spikes off and some cactus have spikes, and they saw it tasted good and they ate it.

So we are allowed to try to survive.

If there is no food, we die, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā Swami: Nārāyaṇī was a great devotee.

If you are not feeling ecstasy, that is your misfortune.

It is not the fault of the remnants,

it’s your lack of adhikāra,

to get the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

You should be lamenting, why you don’t feel ecstasy,

even when you take the prasāda remnants of the Deities.

Jayapatākā Swami: The more we practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness,

advancement increases.

So, by taking the prasāda of Kṛṣṇa, of Gaurāṅga,

our love for Kṛṣṇa can increase.

Just like getting rid of the anarthās,

and becoming fixed or niṣṭhā,

then we advance step by step,

until we have loving ecstasy for Kṛṣṇa,

then taking prasāda can be an impetus for love of Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā Swami: Since He is the Absolute Truth,

so everything is in Him.

But He is bigger than anything else.

So it is not that anyone can contain Kṛṣṇa totally.

He is bigger than everything.

He is the cause of all causes.

And He is without any cause Himself.

Jayapatākā Swami: So, in the spiritual world there are all kinds of relationships.

But Kṛṣṇa is in the center.

And some may be cowherd boys,

gopas, some are parents,

some are gopīs and rāṇīs,

friends of Yaśodā,

and like Vasudeva, he had many wives.

So, Devakī was the mother of Kṛṣṇa,

and the other wives of Vasudeva were stepmothers of Kṛṣṇa.

Just like, King Daśaratha had three wives.

Kauśalyā, was the mother of Rāma

and the other wives were stepmothers.

So we have all kinds of relationships in the spiritual world.

Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying that in Vaikuṇṭha we also have the husband wife,

they may kiss each other,

but they are serving Kṛṣṇa

and they are in their Nārāyaṇa form.

But there is no birth, death, old age or disease in the spiritual world.

Jayapatākā Swami: There are many ways one remembers Kṛṣṇa.

Ajāmila, remembered his son,

his son’s name was Nārāyaṇa.

So at the time of death, he was chanting the name of his son.

Somehow, he remembered the original Nārāyaṇa.

Like that Kṛṣṇa for His devotee, He also helps.

And if the devotee remembers Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will come

or He may send His devotees.

Jayapatākā Swami: They are all Absolute,

at least the first four.

They can have unlimited personal relationship

but whether one is qualified,

we want to be the servant of the servant of the Lord,

not to be directly in the service of the Lord.

So, by being the servant of the servant. of the servant of the Lord,

we get to serve the Lord!

Jayapatākā Swami: What Prabhupāda said is that, if a person follows the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness

then he may not have to take birth again in the material world.

Now

how free we are from things like offenses may dictate how I will go up in the spiritual world,

whether we get a place in Vaikuṇṭha, or whether we get a place in Goloka Vṛndāvana, how I am able to go.

Or

I mean, if a person, I had one person who approached me in India, he had a very strange character.

He said, “I have been chanting 32, 20 or 16 rounds for 26 years,

but he never gave up eating fish.” In His neutral position we were discussing today, He simply reciprocates with the person so perfectly.

There is someone who would do something like that because of their offenses while chanting the Holy name,

that they don’t actually make advancement towards pure love for Kṛṣṇa. They are getting some benefit from chanting,

but at the same time, their material desires are not going,

due to being absorbed in sense gratification like that. So I advised him that,

“you should chant the names of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu,

and by His mercy you may be able to overcome this desire of eating fish.”

And sure enough, after chanting Lord Caitanya’s name for some period of time,

he got some spiritual intelligence. He stopped eating fish.

Even though 26 years he was on his weird practice,

where he although chanting he never tried to avoid breaking that, you know, stopping breaking of regulative principle.

So if a person I mean if he is determined, you know although he would have chanted the 16 rounds

and followed the regulative principles, but if they take things in an attitude that I’m determined not to give up my material attachments,

then that is an anachronism. From our side it should be not just externals,

but it should be internal, we are trying to follow the process.

We are trying from our part to give up our attachments.

If we have the proper attitude , we are trying to give up our attachments, we are trying to avoid,

even if we are not fully successful, Prabhupāda said that there is,

that Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, Lord Caitanya is so merciful, even though we may not,

at the point of death, have done it a hundred percent successful,

we can still get delivered.

In fact, I was, (aside - How long should I go on?) I was in Montreal,

and Prabhupāda is giving a lecture. That time we had a Vyasāsana for him, it was very high.

I mean very- it was like when we would stand up we would just be facing Prabhupāda eye to eye,

or he will still be even a little higher than that.

It was a very high Vyasāsana.

You had to kind of crawl up, it had steps going up and it was more or less kind of a pulpit.

So he would be up there, he would sit and he would even take prasāda there.

In a feast, they would bring a big plate of prasāda and we would all be sitting down,

and he would take Prasāda from there, and sometimes he would give prasāda out from there.

So one day he was giving his lecture from up there

actually and at this point he was just preaching very hard,

we have to be a hundred percent Kṛṣṇa conscious.

We have to try; we have to be a hundred percent Kṛṣṇa conscious. We have to try for that.

We have to become. If we are hundred percent Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we can get pure love for Kṛṣṇa,

then our life will be completely successful. He was just hammering this point.

Now the devotees were thinking, a hundred percent, you know, their heads gradually started hanging down,

they became very thoughtful.

The hundred percent was like such an objective that it never seemed that is ever possible;

even you know to get very close to a hundred percent.

But Prabhupāda was very emphatic on this point.

The devotees were very thoughtful at that time. Then Prabhupāda, he ended the class.

There was just a heavy silence. No questions. That is it.

He ended the class and said, “Become cent percent Kṛṣṇa conscious.”

It was just like a death place; I mean, just like… He saw silence that he could swim through it.

Now Prabhupāda was sitting there on his raised Vyāsāsana

and said, “Even if you are ninety percent Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa is so kind,

that you may still be delivered.” Then he started to get down and when he was about half way down,

just as he was getting off the Vyāsāsana he turned to the devotees and said, ”Even ninety percent, you can be delivered.”

He started walking out, then he turned and his chaddar fell off, I remember it was such a dramatic,

almost like you see in those movies Julius Caeser like that, his chaddar flew like that and said, “Even seventy percent.”

He took his chaddar and threw it over his shoulder and raised his head and walked away.

(Devotees laughing)

Śrīla Prabhupāda Ki

Devotees: Jaya!

Jayapatākā Swami: It is on the border.

Jayapatākā Swami: It is hard to say,

how is the situation in other Kali-yugas.

Previous Kali-yuga was about 4 million years ago.

So, it is hard to say

and we know in this Kali-yuga,

we chant the holy names

and we go back to Godhead.

Please don’t delay.

The next opportunity,

if it is in Kali-yuga,

it is four million years from now.

Lord Caitanya doesn’t come after every avatāra of Kṛṣṇa.

And Kṛṣṇa only comes once in the day of Brahmā.

And a day of Brahmā is a thousand catur-yugas.

And he has an equally long night.

Then he rests.

So, better to take advantage of this opportunity.

Jayapatākā Swami: Hard to say as the śāstra says one may achieve success just by aspiring.

So, by taking dīkṣā,

one is more guaranteed

but if one is fully

thinking of Kṛṣṇa

at the time of leaving this body,

then he may go back to Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā Swami: Interesting question.

So, we know that people offer piṇḍa at the Gayā temple.

And we have heard, how people can offer the effect of Ekādaśī.

We can offer the fruit to someone else.

So it would seem that one could offer the fruit of the donation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

I don’t have on hand the direct verse saying that.

But a son who helps the father from the hellish condition is called the putra.

Pu is a hell.

And tra means in short, to deliver.

Putra means one who delivers the parent from hell.

Putrī is the female of the same.

So, it certainly cannot hurt a person, to give such a donation.

We hope that they would go to Goloka.

Certainly, he would be blessed in many ways.

Jayapatākā Swami: Wonderful!

No birth, no disease, no old age, no death!

And the body, the form of you is just suitable for your eternal rasa with Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Some have sakhya-rasa, some vātsalya-rasa,

some have mādhurya-rasa.

You may be a man now but you may have another form in the spiritual world.

A woman may be a friend of Kṛṣṇa.

We know we take birth after birth in the material world, and if you think your husband when you leave the body, then you take the next birth as a man, if you think of your wife, then you take birth as a woman.

If you think of Kṛṣṇa, you will go back to the spiritual world.

So we are training devotees, they should think of Kṛṣṇa.

Spouses should also train their loved ones to think of Kṛṣṇa.

How do we look in the spiritual world?

So that depends on your rasa.

Either, you will be a mother, father, friend, servitor, gopī or queen, depends on your rasa.

If you go to Vaikuṇṭha where there is Nārāyaṇa,

then we get a similar form like Nārāyaṇa.

But He has some special symbols,

like the Śrīvatsa mark,

like the Kaustuba-maṇi.

We don’t have that mark.

In the Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛta, Gopa Kumāra was in Vaikuṇṭha. Everyone was looking like Nārāyaṇa

and they were saying, here is Nārāyaṇa, here is Nārāyaṇa.

But they were not Nārāyaṇa, they knew who was the original Nārāyaṇa.

Only Nārāyaṇa has this Śrīvatsa mark.

Whether you are in Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka, depends on your relation. You have a form but that is dormant.

When you are liberated you manifest your original form.

So Gopa Kumāra, he was a cowherd friend of Kṛṣṇa,

but first went to Vaikuṇṭha,

he wanted to embrace Nārāyaṇa.

Oh he is God! Nārāyaṇa! You cannot do that.

Awe and reverence!

But with Kṛṣṇa, you can embrace and wrestle.

So you can read the book.

Very interesting.

Finally, he got to Goloka Vṛndāvana and he got his original position

as a cowherd boyfriend.

So what is your form?

Jayapatākā Swami: You see, in Vṛndāvana, you get a 1000 times benefit for any service.

But any offence you do, any materialistic or sinful activity, you also get a 1000 times the bad effect.

So Vṛndāvana is very heavy because we are not pure souls, we may commit some mistake,

so Vṛndāvana is very heavy and to live in Rādhā-kuṇḍa, in a holy place, one has to be very pure.

So it is recommended we go for a few days and then we come back.

But here in Māyāpur, Navadvip, we get the same benefit as Vṛndāvana,

you get a 1000 times credit for any devotional service.

In this month of Dāmodara, we get a 100, that means a 100,000.

A 100 times 1000.

So therefore many ācāryas, they decided to stay in Navadvīpa,

because they get the same benefit as Vṛndāvana, without the negative side.

Here also in this holy place, we have Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

In Ritudvīpa, also here in Caitanya Maṭha.

Tomorrow many people go and bathe in the Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

It is very important for the devotees to bathe in but you have to do it not with an ordinary bath.

Just like ablution.

You go in and out, with all respect.

So some devotees, they think that oh, it is Rādhā-kuṇḍa, jumping off the sides and it is not like a swimming pool.

You have to be very respectful.

It is the holiest of holy places.

So Śrīla Prabhupāda said, it is for the devotees to bathe in but you do so with the utmost respect.

Jayapatākā Swami: You see everybody wants to enjoy,

they want to be happy.

But actually, the real happiness is from the spiritual kingdom.

In the material world everything is temporary.

So it is not possible to get permanent happiness,

and to get some happiness we have to get a lot of suffering also.

Like, old age, disease,

studying,

spend so much time to study,

if you are working,

and other people in your workplace may be envious

and they want to screw you,

so they can look good, so then can be the General Manager.

So we find that Quality Control, Operations, Marketing, they are actually trying to create problem for others.

So real happiness that you get is from Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Then you chant and dance.

Sometimes Lord Caitanya said one feels so much bliss

that they cry, laugh.

So like this they feel very happy.

Everyone wants to feel happy.

But māyā eludes us, she kicks us that we be, will be happy in material life.

That if we have lot of sense gratification, we will happy.

But actually, that doesn’t give real happiness.

So one should use this human birth, to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

So, if you think you are the body, then this deep-rooted desire to enjoy the body will come.

But if you realize that you are not the body, then you will try to enjoy by giving pleasure to Kṛṣṇa.

And by giving Kṛṣṇa pleasure we feel happier.

Jayapatākā Swami: Why they don’t want you to be vegetarian?

Maybe if you can prove to them that the proteins and the vitamins that you need

from different vegetarian items.

Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Prabhupāda would go to some peoples’ house if they became a life member,

and he would tell them what standards to cook for him like no onion garlic,

but those things we always got sick very often.

But Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was an ideal guest.

One time they told Śrīla Prabhupāda here they have put onions,

but he took the onions out and did not eat the onions,

but did not say anything.

He did not want to offend the people.

So how you do the things, you have to use some discretion.

I know that some businessmen, they have to take their clients out to wine and dine, at least dine.

So here they just eat the salad,

but the guests may eat all kinds of nonsense.

That is the downside of marketing.

Jayapatākā Swami: Of course, the extent to which Lord Caitanya was experiencing these eight ecstatic symptoms

is not normal.

I mean it is very special.

But, to some extent, you can experience some of these ecstasies.

Experiencing all at the same time is highly unusual,

but Lord Caitanya was doing that.

Maybe Rādhārāṇī does that.

But some of these, definitely eventually you can realize.

Usually one realizes some ecstasies, then another kind, then another kind, like that.

You know, like laughing uncontrollably,

crying, your voice choked up,

it is possible that someone realizes these.

We have seen like Śrīla Prabhupāda, on several occasions he would get some ecstasy.

And since people imitate that,

that it is our custom - we try to hide it.

But sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda could not hide it.

And he became very ecstatic.

But it is possible to realize some of these ecstasies.

Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Prabhupāda said that one doesn’t have to have second initiation.

But no harm in having it.

Then you can do some confidential service to guru and the Deities.

But you go back to Godhead even after the first initiation.

Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted his disciples to go back to Godhead.

But we want to go back only if there is service we want to go back.

We don’t want to just be there, we want to be there to serve.

So naturally if your desire is to serve, then you will be taken wherever is a place where your service will be.

I asked Śrīla Prabhupāda I wanted to serve him life after life.

Then he replied to me,

why do want to make me come back?

I thought I said the right thing.

I said, I would like to serve you even life after life!

So you can pray like that.

That we want to serve even staying in this material world

but we want to serve.

So in that way if that is the Lord’s desire He will take you back to the spiritual world. 

Jayapatākā Swami: By reading Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

by getting the degrees,

that would be very pleasing to Śrīla Prabhupāda

and be very fixed up in your Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. 

Jayapatākā Swami: As I said, any offence is multiplied a thousand times in Vṛndāvana.

In Māyāpur Śrīla Prabhupāda said it is especially good for gṛhasthas.

The material world is designed in such a way that even if you don’t want to, you are obliged to commit some offences, some sins.

So that is why we recommend that people stay a short time in Vṛndāvana and then go out.

In the short time they can be very careful.

But if they stay here permanently,

then they may commit some sinful activities.

That is just the fact.

Jayapatākā Swami: There are four parts of Goloka Vṛndāvana,

Vraja dhāma,

Mathurā,

Dvārakā

and Śvetadvīpa.

Lord Caitanya is in Śvetadvīpa.

And Lord Kṛṣṇa is in the other three dhāmas

In the Bṛhad-bhāgavātamṛta it says the Lord Jagannātha is in Dvārakā but He is very close to Vṛndāvana dhāma.

How many have read Bṛhad-bhāgavātamṛta?

So the other question was, is it important for us to study?

Śrīla Prabhupāda said that if we don’t study, then we may get doubts that may be answered in the books we don’t study, and we may fall down.

I am very grateful to Anukula Keśava dāsa for organizing the Bhakti-śāstri, Bhakti-vaibhava course in the temple.

Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Prabhupāda has said that 

taking cow milk develops the finer intelligence 

will be able to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. 

At the same time, we like to protect the cows. 

And so, where possible we try to eat milk from protected cows. 

The vegans, they say since the cows are mistreated, 

better not to take any milk. 

But Śrīla Prabhupāda knew that this difficulty was there. 

He thought it was important to offer the milk to Kṛṣṇa, 

and then we can take it. 

So, we only take milk as prasāda. 

Jayapatākā Swami: Sometimes they come as first body as Brahmā.

Human is the first birth that you get a chance to go back.

Brahma at the end of the universe, can go right back.

Unless he becomes materialistic, then from Brahmā they can work their way down to a bug or one can be as human.

That will depend.

It’s not a… No one can say, it is not any, you will find some different evidences in the Vedas.

Coming as a Brahmā or coming as a human, that is not... that may vary from case to case.

We found that Jaya, Vijaya, they came as demons.

Each person, why they are here, why, no one can say exactly.

Everyone is an individual eternally.

And the only way we will know the exact reason how we got into this material world is when we ultimately again we get our liberation.

This is like a dreaming state.

Right now, we are locked into the dream and the whole endeavor is to get out of the dream, to wake up.

So, once we… It’s just like someone is in a kind of coma.

And in the coma, he is dreaming so many things.

And then in that dream, he is going from one dream and then he jumps out and goes to another dream, until finally he can remember someone comes up and says, “Harry! Harry!” [laughter]

And then he comes out of the dream, “Where am I? Right?

Where was I?”

It’s like once you come out of this material world and you come back to your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will be like, I did all those things! I was an animal, and a man, I forgot, I forgot completely about Kṛṣṇa and about my eternal spiritual nature.

And just like a dream.

You never want to go to sleep again, you don’t ever want to come in the material world again.

The thing is one has to want to wake up.

So that’s why the spiritual master is so kind.

Even a person is sleeping, doesn’t want to wake up, they are calling, jīva jāgo, “Wake up, Wake up!

You are not this body.

You are eternal spirit soul.”

And the soul has heard so many things in its life.

You are an American, you are a Bohemian, you are a hippie, you are a conservative, you are republican, you are a democrat, this that.

And never even, doesn’t even come near to waking up the soul.

It is just different! It’s just trying to change the structure of your dream.

But when that pure devotee says, “No, you are an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, you are not this body”, then immediately the soul starts, it is the first time anything that was said is actually directed at the soul.

It starts to move, it starts to wake up.

Then the soul starts to direct the intelligence, what is that? What is he saying?

It’s shocking that the first time one hears that he is a devotee, it may even come as an intense shock.

The first time the devotee is saying, is going right to the soul.

They don’t even speak to the body and the mind; it is going right to the soul.

Because the soul can exert its influence and can control over the mind and the body.

But it has to be awakened, it is has to actually come from the soul, to act in its original, constitutional position.

So how we fell in this material world exactly?

What we were before? When we wake up, when we realize our original position, then we can remember all these things.

So, it is not always a stereotype.

We may come first time as a Brahmā and work our way down and may come in so many ways.

What we were before we came, what was our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, what was our position, how we fell down, what desire we had? - these are different in every case.

Jayapatākā Swami: It is hard for us to understand when we can go to Godhead.

And that time is revealed by Kṛṣṇa.

And we cannot go earlier, so we try to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Then naturally we think about Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Because we don’t know how long we have to live

so we should be ready any time to go back to Kṛṣṇa.

That is our connection with our spiritual master,

to serve him

and carry out his instructions,

the vāṇī-sevā.

It is definitely very difficult

but there is nothing else we can do.

We have to keep our connection with the spiritual master,

by carrying out his instructions, his vāṇī,

and this way we will be connected with our spiritual master.

Jayapatākā Swami: Fruits, salted ingredients, milk products, and nuts, dried fruits,

can be offered.

They are offerable to the Lord,

put fresh tulasī and offer them.

Things that are made by machines or people

if their ingredients are vegetarian,

then we can say Śrī Viṣṇu three times

but that is in kind of an emergency.

But it is not offerable.

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, if we mentally reside in the temple or holy dhāma,

this way on internet I go different places, but I certainly attend the Māyāpur maṅgala-ārati regularly.

This way, through YouTube, Facebook, through Māyāpur TV you can get darśana of various temples.

we can get that way, mentally you are visiting the holy dhāma. 

Jayapatākā Swami: Let me take it another stage, you see. Because that’s very easy to answer because,

you see, in the spiritual sky, in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, Lord Caitanya has His own

section of Goloka Vṛndāvana where He along with His associates, it’s described that

associates of Lord Caitanya generally having, of course, separates mothers and other,

they are generally having male forms. While the associates of Lord Kṛṣṇa,

of course, except for the friends, but I mean to say that generally they

are having the female forms like gopīs and that. There a lot of gopīs.

So, simultaneously, in the spiritual world, those who are the devotees of Lord Caitanya,

they’re having their form with Lord Caitanya,

and those who are the devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they are having their forms with Kṛṣṇa.

Those who are having both relationships

like there may be someone exclusively with Lord Caitanya, although this is very rare;

mostly they will have relationships with both, because that was Lord Caitanya’s mood.

So, they’ll have their form simultaneously with Kṛṣṇa and with Lord Caitanya.

Jayapatākā Swami: In the material world our spiritual body is dormant, 

and the soul is just a small cid particle, 

one ten thousandth of the tip of the hair. 

But in the spiritual world, 

our soul expands into a spiritual body, 

which is not different from ourselves, 

and that is sat-cit-ānanda. 

So, we don’t actually have to take a new body, 

we regain our original form. 

But since the normal situation 

in the material world, 

is that when we leave the body, 

we take a new body, 

that is the general principle. 

When we go back to the spiritual world, 

we manifest our original body, 

our original form, 

which is sat-cit-ānanda. 

Jayapatākā Swami: It is recommended that in Kali-yuga that we should chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.

It doesn’t say that no other name cannot take you back to Godhead.

But we are recommended to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra

and that is the safest thing to do.

But other names could also deliver someone.

Lord Caitanya said to Haridāsa Ṭhākura that He came to deliver all the people –

Lord Caitanya said how would the Islam be delivered?

Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, that if they are attacked by a pig,

they say when the pig hits them,

hā rāma, hā rāma,

which in their languages means offence.

But actually they are saying hā rāma

even though they are thinking of something else they get delivered

because hā rāma means in Sanskrit, “O my dear Lord Rāma!”

Jayapatākā Swami: So, there is only one God.

Different religions may think that they worship different Gods.

But from a Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view we understand that there is only one God.

The Mohammadans worship as Allah, and the Christians worship as God.

So, the real thing is whether you have developed love for the Supreme Person.

If you are just praying to the Supreme Lord, to give you bread, to give you good wife, good husband, something like that, then that means you are only attached to material things, not to Him.

We want that people should develop their love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So, what Lord Jesus said was the Kingdom of God we say Vaikuṇṭha, it is the same thing.

The question is that to what extent they actually develop love of Godhead, then we have no objection.

Jayapatākā Swami: Interesting question.

Of course, we should understand that if we face a lot of inconvenience or unfavorable situations for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, for the service of Kṛṣṇa, then we should know that Kṛṣṇa is very grateful to us.

We can serve in Navadvīpa-dhāma in separation.

Just like, whether you get more credit if you stay in Navadvīpa-dhāma or if you go out on saṅkīrtana preaching.

When we preach and spread the glories of Māyāpur-dhāma, then our Founder-Ācārya, our previous ācāryas, they are very pleased.

So the śāstra says about Navadvīpa-dhāma, about Vṛndāvana dhāma, how much benefit we get.

But when one goes out to preach, the amount of benefit that one gets, that is incalculable.

I was going out from Māyāpur and distributing books.

Śrīla Prabhupāda did not tell me, oh, you stay in Māyāpur, you will get more credit.

He told me to distribute 10,000 big books and 100,000 small books in a month.

So then when I was sick, he told me, maybe you are working too hard, remain in Māyāpur and work through your assistants.

So, in this verse, it mentions sevā-bhāva.

And we want to do that service which is most pleasing to our Founder-Ācārya.

Jayapatākā Swami: Of course, we have to desire to be there.

We also have to do favorable devotional service.

The two things together, I mean it is Kṛṣṇa’s causeless mercy

that there is nothing we can do that will deserve that.

But if we desire and engage in devotional service then Kṛṣṇa, if He pleases will give His mercy.

Sometimes Śrīla Prabhupāda said that Rādhārāṇī would say to Kṛṣṇa, this is a very nice devotee.

If Rādhārāṇī indicates that Kṛṣṇa should give His mercy,

then He will do it.

So that is why we say it is causeless mercy.

There is nothing we can do that actually we would deserve it.

We try and if Kṛṣṇa gives us the causeless mercy, we can have it.

Jayapatākā Swami: Normally we visit the holy dhāma just for a few days.

That time we are very careful not to commit any offence.

And if we stay longer for some parikramā or something,

then we try to hear from the devotees. 

Jayapatākā Swami: You see in Māyāpur in Dāmodara you get 100, in Ekādaśī you get another hundred and near the Ganges you get a thousand or a lac times, so in this way its mentioned. But Kolkata is part of Gaura-maṇḍala Bhūmi.

I think that Śrīla Prabhupāda, he said something.

He said he couldn’t stay in Kolkata, but those who stay in his birthplace they will get special mercy.

So, I don’t remember how many times but Śrīla Prabhupāda said something.

I will look it up.