19950726 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.11.7

Lecture Code: 19950726

 

Scripture: Srimad Bhagavatam

Verse: 8.11.7

Date: 26-Jul-1995

Place: Malaysia

 

Transcribed By: Dipa Das mataji

Transcribed On: 22-Nov-2019

 

First Level Proofer: Usha Mataji

First Level Proofed on: 12-Oct-2020

 

Editorial Changes (non voice): Usha

Date: 5-Jan-2021

 

STATUS: Completed

 

 

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on July 26^th 1995 in Malaysia. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam eighth canto 8, chapter 11, verse 7.

 

kīrtir jayo ’jayo mṛtyuḥ

sarveṣāṁ syur anukramāt

 

Translation:

 

Bali Mahārāja replied: [Devotees repeating]

 

All those present on this battlefield are certainly under the influence of eternal time, and according to their prescribed activities, they are destined to receive fame, victory, defeat and death, one after another.

[Guru Mahārāja reading second time]

 

Purport:

 

If one is victorious on the battlefield, he becomes famous; and if one is not victorious but is defeated, he may die. Both victory and defeat are possible, whether on such a battlefield as this or on the battlefield of the struggle for existence.

Guru Mahārāja talking to the devotees [Not Clear – 00:03:25]

according to the everything takes place according to the laws of nature (prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ). Since everyone, without exception, is subject to the modes of material nature, whether one is victorious or defeated he is not independent, but is under the control of material nature. Bali Mahārāja, therefore, was sensible. He knew that the fighting was arranged by eternal time and that under time’s influence one must accept the results of one’s own activities. Therefore even though Indra threatened that he would now kill Bali Mahārāja by releasing the thunderbolt, Bali Mahārāja was not at all afraid. This is the spirit of a kṣatriya: yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam (Bg. 18.43). A kṣatriya must be tolerant in all circumstances, especially on the battlefield. Thus Bali Mahārāja asserted that he was not at all afraid of death, although he was threatened by such a great personality as the King of heaven.

 

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Thus, ends Bhaktivedanta Swami translation purport to chapter 11, text 7, canto 8 of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam in the chapter titled “King Indra Annihilates the demons”.

 

[Guru Mahārāja reading translation again]

 

Bali Mahārāja replied: All those present on this battlefield are certainly under the influence of eternal time, and according to their prescribed activities, they are destined to receive fame, victory, defeat and death, one after another.

 

saṅgrāme vartamānānāṁ

kāla-codita-karmaṇām

kīrtir jayo ’jayo mṛtyuḥ

sarveṣāṁ syur anukramāt

 

One has to act everything in this material world is depending on our actions on the one side, on the other side the karma and ultimately the supreme personality of Godhead, an ordinary sequence of events, one is according to the laws of karma and the time factor whether one will be successful or not in a particular activity is already destined, simply one has to play out of course if one doesn’t act even what might be destined you won’t get. In one sense it’s like when someone gives you however many of their lottery tickets, you can immediately scratch it off and find if you’ve won or not but even if someone gives you, you don’t scratch it you won’t know if you won or not, distress! distress! Sometimes in our donation box someone also giving lottery tickets. [Devotees laugh] Since we didn’t buy it, it’s not considered gambling [Devotees laugh]. If Kṛṣṇa wants, alright you can take it. It is His property.

 

In the material world, we all are just having certain happiness and distress according to karma.

 

The Bali Maharaj, he was bringing this point even Indra threatened “I’ll Kill You!” If it’s not destined, it won’t happen, ultimately what will happen is between the Lord and the time factor.

 

He said “I’m not afraid if I’m supposed to die here then I’ll die here and if I’m not supposed to die here even if this big crock won’t make any difference”.

 

So then Bali Maharaj he understood that well whatever is going to happen is going to happen I have to act, even if someone knows this is dangerous.

 

Sometimes people go to astrologer and astrologer says oh your marriage is going to have problem, the person gets all effected and stops trying to make it work anyways will not do oh [Not Clear – 00:08:05]the astrologer told me, very dangerous if we let our self be ruled by what we anticipate to be the karma because what we are doing now will affect our future Karma.

 

If the person tries to do his dharma correctly whether it was successful or not it doesn’t matter, but for now he tries to do his dharma correctly then in the future, he’ll get the good result, this time maybe he cannot change it or maybe he can change it, maybe it’s something he cannot change it still he should do his dharma correctly, his duty then he will go down alright, he did he’s duty correctly so that next time he’ll get better results, that’s how the laws of karma works.

 

Some people only think about the present situation even if they try, they can’t change it. Someone brought up a point that the some Indian and Bangladeshi they go to America to get a job, to improve themselves but they stay even though they don’t have, and they have more money.

 

Sometimes they analyze then they remain in the same kind of mentality I don’t know if this is true or not, I have no way out study to be interesting study, but all these kind of study is difficult to ascertain, otherwise if someone’s karma was there that they can go and they can become wealthy then according to laws of Karma that will happen, if someone’s karma Is not there, even if they go there you’ll see they’ll still  may be struggling even if they’d stay in another place they’d little bit complicated. So, we always have to work for the present, and try to do the best we can according to the circumstances that come up, this is in the material side.

 

But whatever Bali Maharaj was speaking was from the material side and he is speaking as a true kṣatriya. He’s in a battle field. He has to go on with his struggle of existence if whether he’s victorious or whether he’s defeated that all on his hands but he’s going to do his side of it and if victory is meant for him then he’ll win and nobody can stand on his way.

 

In the whole universe Bali Maharaj is one of the few people to be able to defeat Indra and conquer the entire universe.

 

Generally, Indra’s always victorious but sometimes Indra also gets defeated but it’s very rare the few people to defeat Indra and conquer the entire universe. Generally, Indra’s always victorious but sometimes Indra also gets defeated. But it’s very rare.

 

Rāvaṇa’s son Indrajit, he defeated Indra that’s why he got the name Indrajit.

 

Bali Maharaj, I’m don’t know exactly how many, few demons became victorious generally very difficult to defeat Indra that’s why He’s Indra, He’s very powerful.

 

Prabhupāda in the purport, He brings up this point that struggle for existence we have to also have the same determination to go on with our duty. Biggest danger is when someone becomes depressed and becomes hopeless.

 

Even Arjuna, he became hopeless, he thought that I won’t be happy if I fight and if I win and also, I’ll be unhappy because I’ll be killing all my brothers and my…when I have to defeat Bhīṣma and Droṇācārya who I respect so much, without them how can I be happy. So mentally he figured out this way I won’t be happy and if I get defeated, I won’t be happy, I’ll lament, so what is the use of fighting? It’s a no-win situation.

 

Nowadays in the material world people are very much conscious about whether I’m going to win or not, that kṣatriya bhava is not so permanent. Previously people would fight, whether win or lose I’m going to fight. This is kṣatriya mode, very chivalrous, nowadays people want to see if I win or not, If I’m not going to win then I won’t fight right? If I’m not going to be successful, then why try? This is the mentality.

 

So that’s why all the experts they say if you try to arrange something try to arrange a win win situation, so everybody win [Devotees laughs] then you’ll be successful, this is a good idea, if everybody can win so that’s what they try to do.

 

And on material side the real win win situation of course is when we carry out our duty, we carry out our Dharma because no matter what happens we’re going to win. Bali Maharaj knew If I carry out what my duties are according to the śāstra, even in this life if get defeated by Indra still dying in the battle field I’ll be victorious that’s what kṛṣṇa told Arjuna, “You being kṣatriya if you die in a battle then you go to svarga and if your victorious then you’re the King”. So materially its always better to just stick it out and fight than run away and then if you say well, you’re not interested then either of those two things.

 

Then in this particle battle I want to fight this battle because I want to establish a god conscious kingdom so you fight for me without thinking about winning or losing. In the Bali advising both are thinking about winning, Indra wants to win, and Bali wants to win.

 

So, it’s very difficult to get a win win situation because in order for Indra to win, he has to defeat Bali, in order for Bali to win, he has to defeat Indra, so how? One’s victory means others failure. Life is a lesson. Isn’t it?

 

Indra…Situation you’ll find in the material world were two people have separate interest so how can we have a win win situation, in devotional service it’s possible to have a win win situation because both have got both parties have the same interest which is to please Kṛṣṇa. The devotees can always have a win win situation because if Kṛṣṇa is pleased everybody wins.

 

In my objection is that i want Kṛṣṇa to be pleased, and someone māyāpur objection is one Kṛṣṇa to be pleased, and in Sadhana he wants Kṛṣṇa to be please, If Kṛṣṇa is pleased then we all win, all of our system is achieved, then how we can have unity and diversity if we all have the same objective that let Kṛṣṇa be pleased, if we have that common objective then everyone can easily be pleased but as soon as I have separate interest then sometimes I’ll be happy and sometimes I’ll be sad. It’s the nature of material life, and the whole material world is divided like that into separate divisions, Kali Yuga is divided us so many separate divisions. So always somebody is happy someone isn’t.

 

One of the most famous program that the materialist make to unify all the country. Apart from the United Nations is the Olympics, right? Say this is how unified all the countries they all come together what they do they all coming together and competing whom with [Devotees laugh] someone will get the gold medal; someone get the silver medal and someone get the bronze medal and others will get no medals [Devotees laugh] right? So then country like Malaysia which has only…may be how many million? Very hard to get medals [Devotees laugh]. If somebody gets any medals then the whole country become very happy, you become national hero.

 

But then in America or Russia all these places they have big population there spending so much money, if somebody only gets a medal in a very famous sport then anybody knows otherwise someone may get medals in riflery or horse riding or something nobody cares, they don’t know only what are the number? 118 gold medal. Who got the gold medal? Hardly anyone got it but if someone getting a gold medal and think or anything you know; big action hero, the highlight, bronze medal one person got for boxing, he was paraded to the street, going forward (devotees laugh) for bronze medal, it’s the only medal Thailand got. [Devotees laugh]

 

But what they’re doing they’re…sometimes India get no medal, so many people but there’s not so much athletic, nowadays is very scientific, they exercise, diet, this that, they have computers figuring out how much muscle weight…they’re doing like these one thousand times, doing like this [Devotees laugh] so many things they’re doing. Anything to waste the value of human life like going this after that medal. why? You can get the medal, then you get the sponsorship, you can wear T-shirt with a special name and they’ll pay you lots of dollars to wear T-shirt, Shoes, tennis racket, but all this effort what it’s creating is division, in the name of unity everyone goes then sport together then they get frustrated why I didn’t get any medal?

 

So therefore, they’re taking drugs, this you call Steroid to do up the muscles they’re getting caught, they are cheating. Even recently one bicyclist was killed. Was going going on the train someone pushed him off the bike and he rolled and he was killed. Very dangerous, because people want to win, they become such a thing, so we can have united nation.

 

Prabhupad said a spiritual world, everyone comes together to chant the holy names. It’s not a competition that who can chant better but then everyone should chant and by chanting everyone becomes happy. I was thinking how to do that parikramā.

 

In Navadwip we go for one and a half 2-3 hours for kīrtan and every Sunday morning in the Bhaktivedanta Manor London they have one-hour kīrtan. I was thinking how every temple should have at least one day in a week where they do one hour, solid kīrtan or one and a half [Devotees:Haribol!].

 

It’s already scheduled like a report on Sunday feast, what’s the topic, some one hour of intensive chanting and kīrtan, and all disciples are required for mine anyway, I cannot say for other but we should all chant in all city because so many problems get relieved simply by the kīrtan.  This is a special benediction of Lord Caitanya.

 

Nowadays we get so much pre-occupied with our management, the computers, the planning this and that sometimes no time for the kīrtan, especially for the leader. For the general devotee they get all the nectar now.

 

So, I also require myself, I also have to attend Kīrtan [Devotees: Haribol!] to get that nectar. It’s very important that we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, because this is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Someone brought this we also vegetarian but sometimes there’s no vegetable [Devotees laughs] some of us complaining Ātmā tatva made a south Indian feast and so they waited to see oh! it’s a big feast from Ātmā tatva then, it was Curd rice, Lemon rice there  was Coconut rice, Tamarind rice, and Plain rice  and they said “ Maharaj where’s the feast? Its only rice” This is a south Indian feast means rice [Devotees laughs] five kinds of rice. We thought Maharaj, prabhu was vegetarian we have vegetables also that is the next feast [Devotees laughs].

 

This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement we should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sometimes even in a kīrtan we don’t chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, we do the Haribol, this and that then finally one-time Hare Kṛṣṇa, jai ho! Hare Kṛṣṇa should also be chanted for a lot of time.

 

In Bangladesh, one of the interesting thing is still going on today is this 24 hour kīrtan, that’s another nice thing to do, once a year at least, it’s called Nama Yagya, I thought that any of this was speculative or something so I studied a little bit, I also talked with some other Swami’s, and I saw in the books that this was a sacrifice performed by Lord Caitanya, and there’s a whole ritual.

 

The night before, early in the morning before sunrise in Mangal Aārati or even night before they have a pūjā and they put out all the mridanga, the Kartal, the Tulsi, they do worship to all the paraphernalia of Lord Caitanya’s Kīrtan, then they establish one Mangalgat, it’s a clay pot calling the deity’s, Pañcatattva, and also they call in Pañcatattva and call in the Guru, the six tattva’s and then they put out asana so that Pañcatattva and for the Guru each one, some also put in Rādhā Govinda on top of it, but the Pañcatattva is installed in the pot then they go around, they put a Tulsi bunch and they go around  with a water pot and put it on the side, do Aārati, then everything is ready.

 

That night before they chant the Pañcatattva mantra’s they meditate on Lord Caitanya they sing various bhajan an things and Hare Kṛṣṇa but then finally when in the next morning when the kīrtan begins, its only Hare Kṛṣṇa Maha mantra 24 hours, nothing else and only groups after groups all organized.

 

Nowadays it’s a big competition who can have the biggest janmāṣṭamī festival and so there’s so many booths going on, Abhishek Booth, Prasādam Booth, lecture booth, drama booth, Chinese booth, and in there one month of hāriṇam kīrtan going on 24 hours, nothing effects them.

 

The thing is that in Bangladesh they have no ah not polluted because there they do professional group. So people come and spectator but Lord Caitanya’s time people were chanting and they are participating everyone is chanting and nobody is professional, they are doing it out of devotion but there is no system like that just before the sunrise they start the kīrtan or at a particular time and then they’ll go same day Mangal ārati and then they’ll start and they go chanting going around and round when someone a replacement group will come they will chant the Pañcatattva outside and do Hare Kṛṣṇa then they’ll come and do one round together and the old group goes out and the new group stays on till the replacement comes.

 

Of course, people are also invited to come and go around then everyone can come, but you need a base group to people and it will go on Ashtopraha means whole 24 hours until the next morning or some people do morning till night korpraha that’s the evening from morning to midnight it’s very easy for Janmāṣṭamī.

 

Even going the whole day and then at the end they do the 24 i said I read by Govinda Gosh and by Vasudeva Gosh they wrote a song and then in the morning they go and they think that ghot and then they do a procession in the whole neighborhood and to everyone’s house they would take the Lord Caitanya, you could also put  Caitanya deity but there’s no deity there outside, in those days they didn’t  use the deity’s  they used clay pot because Lord Caitanya’s deity were not used in the presence of Lord Caitanya.

 

They go to the town then they come back to have a little festival for there was one pot of yogurt kept in the corner of the area where they did kīrtan, that was called Dahi Mangal, and then when the whole yagya was finally finished then harinām outside they came back and everything was finished, they take that and they smash it then everybody takes the Dahi and throws it at everybody else like cowherd boys playing with each other and then they all take their morning bath and finish.

 

So, there’re many other little details that’s like the basic things, that was actually something that Lord Caitanya he liked, that when His devotees organize this 12 hour, 24 hour kīrtan. kīrtan was the most important thing. Of course, now we have so many other activities but kīrtan should always be a part of our life and our week, our day.

 

So Prabhupad he created a full day for Mangal Ārati, japa, tulsi pūjā then Guru pūjā, darshan, class Gita/Bhagavat, Prasādam then the morning program so many activities are done. Most of the important activities are already performed. It’s very important. When we perform all our spiritual activities, it is purified; it brings back our spiritual consciousness. When we perform more material activities the contamination of the material world, we tend to get covered up, and we start to feel stress and anxiety, because this material world is a hard struggle for existence.

 

Some people are like kṣatriya, they’re very strong and in spite of all these difficulties they just go on by knowing that whatever is going to happen is going to happen I have to do my duties. Lot of people they don’t have that strength, they get really frustrated that why so many people become alcoholic, drug addict, it’s hard to preach, the other way is that everything is destroyed. Very bad.

 

How to get the strength to survive all these struggles if one does not have that nature?

 

That strength you can get by taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa. By Kṛṣṇa’s mercy if we carry out our duty to please Kṛṣṇa then He guarantee like Arjuna you come back to me, this much better than the kṣatriya who only go to svarga, only go to the sun planet. A devotee will get Kṛṣṇa whether he wins or loses.

 

So, in losing he wins, in winning he wins. Only the person who loses get very frustrated and if they win, they become very happy but for the devotee if he loses, he wins, if he wins, he wins, winning for him is to forget Kṛṣṇa. Materially wining he knows sometimes I may win sometime I may lose. Sometimes I’ll be successful materially, sometime I may not. I have to go on with my devotional service.

 

The Pāṇḍava’s they tasted defeat and they tasted victory, they tasted both, they were defeated in the dice game by cheating. Therefore, they got exiled and Draupadī was insulted. For them it was very painful. So, they kept on with their devotional service, they never lost their faith in Kṛṣṇa. Kept on with their activities.

 

This is what we got to do keep on with our devotional activities side by side the material life and the spiritual life as one.

 

śrī Ishopanisad tell us we have we have to see both the sides; we’re living in the material world that’s the material life and the material life runs according to its own rule and regulation. But the spiritual life runs according to different rules and regulations so there’s two, if someone is a grihastha but someone is dealing with the material world like now being in society, we have to deal with the government we have to deal with the police, we have to deal with so many people in society.

 

So, managing a society means that we got to do lot of so-called material dealing. Especially those who are in the management, those who are just doing harinām or doing book distribution they’re free, those who are doing pūjā they do not have to worry about how the bills are paid. They can just do the devotional activities. Do pūjā. So, it’s very nice. Prabhupāda said everyone shouldn’t have to be involved in the management.

 

[Guru mahārāja clears throat]

 

Nowadays in the modern world, the whole world every bodies involved with managing the problems in the world, every day you read the paper; this problem in Bosnia, this problem in Czechia, this problem, it’s like it’s not. Now all the problem becomes every bodies problem, before this problem should be dealt by kṣatriya’s, and the kṣatriya’s would fight with kṣatriya’s, and whoever won they would come back in order to be the king and the city would go one, the two kings would fight with each other, who came back is now your new ruler is this alright. But the government the system of government wouldn’t change the laws wouldn’t change, simply the person administrating would change. Because your all following the codes of Manu, but nowadays because of new religion everybody gets frightened because one crazy person they can obey, try to war and it won’t be a war against the only the rulers, it will be against the man, the women the children against everybody.

 

They told even recently in Iraq they had biological war, weapon that means disease. Blow out a bomb which explodes disease, and kill the population by disease, incurable disease.

 

Some people say that AIDS is actually also coming from this kind of disease, testing that some government did, who can say? So much speculation goes on, so many rumours; one doesn’t know what is real truth. But nothing is impossible, this officially outlaw in the world to do biological warfare but who knows who is testing on these things, an inexpensive way to kill your enemies, by bugs. Bugs means they don’t cost much, two kilo weapon cost too much.

 

So, all these things are done behind the scene. They are not thinking about how too only just following the old Vedic rule, very ruthless, so what happens the whole world get pre-occupied with these things and this way the life time is wasted.

 

Prabhupad when left, people concentrate on their devotional service so everyone doesn’t need to deal with the management. Those who are given that responsibility deal with management, otherwise someone will deal with sankīrtan, someone congregational preaching, someone book distribution, some with pūjā, some with office work, not everyone has to deal with everything. If everybody deals with everything that means then there is no time for the preaching. No time to think about Kṛṣṇa, someone who is able to do both do the management and think about Kṛṣṇa, they get to do that service. For some people it becomes overwhelming and then they can just preach, and spiritually its nothing higher or lower. Every service you do is transcendental. Important thing is we’re serving Kṛṣṇa.

 

At one point in vṛndāvan, Prabhupāda said that he wanted to start a program to give some recognition to devotees for their ability to do a particular service. He said in the society there’s too much focus simply upon doing some activity management.

 

So, people asking if I can go up as a Namahatta leader, temple leader, divisional leader, zonal leader this will be success, but that’s not the real success. Real success is to be Kṛṣṇa Conscious.

 

Even though being in a sannyasa for so many years, is not the real success, the real success if I can be Kṛṣṇa conscious. If I can get love for Godhead, that is the real success, all the other activities are simply to help us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. What may be helpful for one person may not be helpful to someone else, sannyasa maybe helpful for one person but it may be detrimental for someone else, also like maybe helpful for one person but it may be detrimental, for someone else.

 

According to one’s nature, according to one’s situation, someone accepts Grihastha life and someone accepts sannyasa life. Everyone needs to go on with their devotional service according to their particular ashram, to act in a particular way. We need also responsible grihastha’s because the grihastha’s men and women they have better suited to deal with family problems and family affairs, and with the mathaji’s affairs, with the Brahmacārī’s the managers, sanyasi’s have to always give counselling to the mathaji’s.

 

Then sometimes the person being counselled thinks that this person cares about me, nobody cares about me, this person cares about me and they start to feel romantic [Devotees laughs].

 

Actually, we care about everyone. It’s our duty to care. But we want to keep it on a higher spiritual level become spiritually, but sometimes idea comes in the mind romantically and this is not the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to promote romanticism. We care about everyone; we care about people. But we don’t want to bring it into mundane level, husband and wife may have a certain degree of romantic life but that’s the end of it. For everybody else it is prohibited.

 

So, this is the thing that has to be. Even amongst the grihastha’s can be very dangerous. Some grihastha maybe counselling a mathaji, that mathaji also may start feeling attached, and it’s very important fact that grihastha’s have a strong relationship with his own wife or may work with the mathaji preaching to a man may go the other way, they have to be very bonded in their own Kṛṣṇa conscious married life and be well communicating and see their own weakness and if there’s a problem have someone else start talking to that person.

 

Kali yuga is very danger and the Veda says we should never be alone even with mother sisters and daughter when their fully developed, says we shouldn’t be alone with them because talking in a solitary place for some time because nature is like that, one may get attached.

 

So that’s why even when Śrīla Bhaktisidanta Thakur he would always say all sanyasi’s only talk to mathaji with another person that’s because the rule is like that.

 

One time a lady came, an elderly lady, fairly elderly and she asked Bhaktisidanta I want to speak to you alone and he said I can’t allow it.

 

Somebody has to be here with me, they’re all trusted people you can speak no problem, no! no! I want to speak to you alone, sorry I can’t. So even amongst grihastha’s it doesn’t mean that you nature is there wife needs to also always be watching out for husband, husband for wife. Material nature is very dangerous. We want to help people we want to preach to people we want to care about people but we have to keep it on a spiritual platform so because we have varieties of services, varieties of people need help and counselling want to discuss things therefore we need all of the devotees to become very strong in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness and help in preaching. There may be some people that maybe only be preached by grihastha and some people can only be preached by a sanyasi, some people can only be preached by young person then later they start to relate with other people of different ages in Kṛṣṇa consciousness because it didn’t take long but initially were there in Māyā consciousness. Sometimes they don’t want to hear from old people. They just see the old body and they think that they must be different but in the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness we get break go through the generation gap to a large degree but for preaching and for some association. Sometime people write to me than similar group.

 

So, this was recommended by Bhaktivinod Thakur that people of like mind they can meet together. They can be friends together.

 

So we find also now just like the Namahatta’s they develop and sometimes there’s many many people are coming, last night so many people came here it was overloaded the stairway was full, under the stair way, this side, this side, all side no room!, overcrowd!, that’s successful, that’s very good with that many people come to a program and that is very inspiring when people come and they get association with many devotees.

 

But then what happens in a big program sometimes you find people only come for the big program, then you don’t see them, so what happen because in a big program there’s excitement, they come, it’s also impersonal nobody has time to deal with everybody individually.

 

So, there is also that importance of having the small gathering. Just like in the big temple you have a sankīrtan group they go out but now we’re seeing in the congregational preaching that we also need to organize the congregation in a smaller group. We don’t know what is the best Kṛṣṇa conscious names for these groups, love and trust group, friendship group, we had to get some inspiration but within even the Namahatta there maybe 50 people you may need five group. To get together also and discus there too work together for some Kṛṣṇa conscious project like small teams, action team get opportunity to work together to discuss Kṛṣṇa consciousness and to do something then when working together in a smaller group then also people tend to reveal their mind easier, they tend to help each other easier, easier to organize things also.

 

 We always know I mean as a manager always know that in a small temple everybody does everything, someone sometimes have to do pūjā and do the cooking and do the kīrtan has work to do all these thing, you go to a very big temple, you become specialist, only does pūjā, only does cooking only does book distribution. So sometimes what happens is that people get lost, in māyāpur. Sometime you don’t see someone for two months might be like that because so big.

 

One New Bhakta said that when I was on the New Bhakta program, they would see that I got up for up mangal ārati everything and once I graduated, went into asram no body see if I get up or what I do so I’m in Maya, I sleep to late nobody says anything to me.

 

So, it’s a danger in such a big quantity that nobody takes care of individual. So now understanding also there’s importance of divide up even the congregation into smaller groups where there’s special care. They care for each other and they do some devotional service.

 

We’re thinking of good names for these groups for this seems to be important also that way we have small group sometimes there might be a group of the Chinese devotees get together and they can think how to make more Chinese devotee. They come together in a big group once a week and have a big kīrtan but in a small way they get together and they discuss their own Kṛṣṇa consciousness and they have a kind of organize mini program and they also plan out how to preach. There may be a mathaji’s sub group, they’re maybe a youth sub group, children’s sub group, different kinds of groups. So, this way you get more dynamic then everybody starts thinking I have a duty also to spread the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

 

So right now, we’re thinking of Bali Maharaj he saying “Alright Indra I’m going to fight whatever happens I don’t care because it all ordained”. Another sense we can compare this to hard struggle of existence also we can compare right now we’re at war. Lord Caitanya and his followers declared a war on Kali yuga.

 

In this morning Palaka Kṛṣṇa, he was asking me who’s winning the war, it seems this māyā is increasing and Kṛṣṇa consciousness is increasing. But right now, still māyā is very much advanced but we’ve started to infiltrate but actually how we can increase unless every devotee takes up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Every mathaji, you know every pithaji, every young person we need everyone.

 

You see now sometimes in the revolutionary work like what’s going on Sri Lanka they’re putting out their kids you see all their fight, of course we don’t want suicidal, that’s not what we are. I’m just saying that women and everyone go out. We’re protected by Kṛṣṇa and the only way anybody can fight in the spiritual transcendental world they have to become armored like contained with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don’t want to send people out like they’re sending people suicide mission.

 

We want to build people up let them become strong, let them know what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, let them be enthusiastic and send them out preaching. But only the head of group preaches and others say ok I come once a week, I can attend the group once and then I don’t have anything else to do, how the movement will spread?How many agents are preaching māyā?

 

Palaka Kṛṣṇa[Not Clear – 00:47:08] How many agents of māyā in the world? Anybody who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious is an agent of māyā. Isn’t it? [Devotees laughs] She doesn’t spare any one, everyone is made agent for her.

 

So, like that who’s in Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone has to be agent of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone has to be not only practicing but has to be preaching. This is not my person; I’m not saying I do things maybe I just come to seeing it very clearly. Now Lord Caitanya ordered that every human being take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness and give it to others. The two things are there, we have to perfect our life, [Not Clear – 00:47:50] and we have to give it to others, as much as we perfect ourselves so much more we equipped to help others. This way some person may be able to help thousands of people and one person may be able to help one person, but to whatever extent he gets Kṛṣṇa consciousness we can help someone else, and this is the big battle that’s going on now, and the only way that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness can win is if everybody becomes a warrior.

 

All of you have to become, whether you become a rati or a adirati or maharati or maybe a foot soldier or whatever but everyone needs to become empowered and when māyā overtakes because of carelessness then it’s a loss for all of us.

 

Sometimes a devotee prematurely very careless and they fall into some māyā and it becomes like a disgrace, it harms all of us. Isn’t it? So that’s why everyone of us is interested in everyone else because anyone of your victory is all of our victory and anyone of your defeat is defeat for all of us. But one person is lost to māyā we all suffer.

 

We all feel for that person and that means it’s one less person fighting in the army of Kṛṣṇa to deliver the conditioned soul and then one person gets successful in bringing in many devotee then that’s good for all of us. In the spiritual vision, materially may also same, would say the only thing is spiritual vision. You can also bring into material vision you know how many ways otherwise you but that’s not my point, that is also simultaneously, that is very important that we have program which develop all of our members of the congregation and all the members of the temple and everyone helps in their way of course in the temple it’s a team effort.

 

So, in the temple someone does the pūjā, someone is doing the cooking and someone is doing the preaching, they work together as a team. Actually, what I realize is the congregational program is a better opportunity to be a preacher in many ways because in a congregation everyone can be a preacher. Because you have to be a preacher if your living in the temple you can even live without preaching because your already protected. See in the ashram you can be cooking and doing the pūjā, you may or may not preach but because you’re there the whole temple is preaching so you’re getting the benefit, but to be a successful you need to be in a preaching mood, but to be in living in a congregation means your living in your house just to live there people are going to say why are you doing this?

 

Because you are always associating with people, your brother, your sister, your mother, your uncle, your grandfather.

 

Why you are young man?

 

Why you are young women?

 

Why you are chanting japa now?

 

Wait till you get older ready to die [Devotees laughs].  But you had to always be facing all this thing because your there in the middle of the enemy camp know. Then you can’t you know, maybe you’re working 5 days a week you don’t get to preach everyday but maybe some people even while they’re working, they can preach. That depends on their ingenuity, there environment that they’re in but every week they should go and do some preaching. They have an opportunity at least one day a week go in the evening or sometime go and do some preaching. They’ll do if they take it we should give every one of them opportunity because we’ll see that one devotee will come and set up a place like a Bhagavat to open the door and invite people to come to play some…5 people 10 people, 15 people then it gets a full house right? Then at certain point it kind of gets stuck because he is preaching, but other people don’t preach how will it go?

 

That’s why dividing up and making team smaller team and getting them to preach even making up to make this program so big you train up an assistant leader and then its ok let’s have two programs in Bhakta group. In this house or we can have at a bigger house or we can have two programs, this house seems too small maybe because I was here. But even in a general way if the house becomes full then you go on making then you go on making more and more program then you get 20 group, but then all the groups they come together and what they’re doing in some Christian groups now they get so many groups like this then what they do is they’re building a stadium 25,000 people gather together once in a week In a stadium and this is special only for the religious purpose stadium.

 

So we see in this way, you can have small groups then they have the bigger gathering the congregation and in the future we’ll have so many groups that you’ll find the name Dm, Bhakta group the whole mart you’re going to end up buying a whole stadium [Devotees cheer and clap] having a 12 hour big kīrtan then you know sight tour this that a whole you know very dynamic. It’s not impossible and then somebody goes to that program and gets fired up. Wow! But then after that they’ll get lost also because 25000 [Devotees laughs] and then you had to say, No. You want to be part of this, you have to go to another small groups [Devotees laughs]. You keep tracking otherwise you know it’s pretty hard to keep track, so it’s interesting.

 

We’ve been discussing this concept this year amongst GBC’s big leader Ravindra Swaroop.

 

He said “I can see in the future. We’re going to have special shopping mall temple” (Devotees say haribol) like complex.

 

Here in Malaysia it’s also same message a big complex but he meant to say is like you go on to a big super market you get everything, here you have one big temple room going on kīrtan, how we can know who likes kīrtan they go on, kīrtan doesn’t stop for the class, it goes on (devotees laugh).

 

Will be there dancing and chanting the whole day [Devotees continue to laugh] right? Somebody go on perhaps all then may go another place where class is going on, every two hour one after another class then there will be a place to go in for japa workshop you go in for japa[Devotees laughs] having japa workshop, then pūjā workshop, you go in and training room, all different kind of people come up, they can do that,  know how to do that, pūjā everything, pūjā things.

 

Like that an actual mall [Devotees laughs] an entire spiritual complex plus big Govinda’s restaurant [Devotees cheer].

 

Its spiritual prasādam, Chinese food, Italian food, south Indian food, like that you start thinking Oh spiritual! [Devotees continue to laugh] mahā prasad complex [Devotees laughs] maybe he’s vision will be the vision who can say it’s interesting. But it’s nice to have a idea on how urban setting, developing setting how we can spread.

 

Of course, we want to take people out urban setting to the country where we can have a show them that this is also a country life, this is what the modern people are forgetting. They think that trees are growing on palm oil, they don’t know that living in the country also for living and that’s also nice.

 

Anyway, but the overall whole point I wanted to make just like Bali Maharaj was in this determination we have to be in the battle, we should understand it’s a battle against māyā. We all have to become determined and we have to prepare ourselves how we can spread the Kṛṣṇa consciousness to other.

 

People become Kṛṣṇa conscious because they hear from other people. Even if someone comes in and listens to my lecture, or Bhava Vishnu Maharaj lecture or anybody lecture they may get inspired but usually it’s the individual devotees who go and talk to them explain the things to them and care about their spiritual life will make a difference.

 

One is like giving a big inspiration maybe but the how to put that in, how to take that and give it a theme but someone has to go water the tree cultivate it , care of it both the things are needed and nowadays the Guru doesn’t have time to train each disciples and most cases they have to travel and so many things.

 

So, we need to help all the devotees to care for the other devotees on behalf of the guru, and if it’s a problem report it to the guru, this devotee needs special care but guru can only help with special cases, in extreme need.

 

Like in hospital they bring the doctors up if it’s a critical case otherwise just to change the bandage they don’t bring the doctor, the nurse can do it and any little problem they bring assistant doctor in and he can assist and do that.  But when it’s a serious problem then they bring in the big doctor. The personal doctor makes a decision on what to do.

 

So, like that we have to work like Prabhupāda  said. This is a spiritual hospital everybody is simultaneously a patient as well as a doctor, nurse.  As you become doctor you become less of a patient, but the nurses may be also simultaneously a nurse and patient and some may be only patient, that’s a New Bhakta program. As you go up you become more and more doctor while your curing yourself.

 

So, thank you very much. I over extended again.

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa! [Devotees says Hare Kṛṣṇa].

 

Any Questions?

 

I think the Malaysian Ratha yatra is keeping the country united [Devotees laugh] [Not Clear – 00:58:30] need some more kīrtan, [Not Clear – 00:58:40]. Just like Kṛṣṇa has His interest, Lord Caitanya has His interest; it’s a very broad question.

 

Prabhupad has His interest, whatever we can do which is within that parameter it’s alright, you may not be able to do everything just like there is nava-vidhā bhakti, nine process of bhakti. If you can do one it’s alright, if you can do all 9 very good. As long as the individual, the group, as collective the family interest is within the overall interest, there won’t be a problem. When own interest becomes outside of the overall interest then it becomes a problem, you don’t have to be afraid about our friendship or there will be grouping or that will be family.

 

As long as they all accept that their interest should be also interest of Prabhupad, interest of Lord Caitanya, family has to also maintain itself that is also of our interest towards our family are well maintained if they’re producing income, if they are giving some of their income regularly to Kṛṣṇa then it’s also important if the congregational grhastha’s are giving a lot of money according to their varnashrama grihastha fulfil this[Not Clear - 01:00:32] so they are giving to the temple then the brahmacari’s can be just free for preaching without selecting ah just doing fund raising because some temples which don’t have big congregation some bhaktas as well you find all the temple devotees going out selling thing, selling candles, selling T-shirts selling , selling , selling because they don’t have a congregation so they don’t preach, only selling to maintain the building and the temple.

 

So then what happens is that it becomes a vicious circle because they don’t have a congregation, they have to do all the work because they are doing all the work, they don’t have time to make the congregation. Now what we’re trying to do is build up the congregation, congregation should understand their duty is to maintain the temple and see that devotee at the temple the brahmacari’s and renounced brahmana’s, very simple brahmana’s who are maintained by the temple and they want to see them preach, this what’s happening in Atlanta temple I saw the congregation they take the markets off, they become very active but then they start saying look at why they’re so many devotees in the temple?

 

Why are they not doing anything?

 

We want to see everybody going mangal ārati in the temple the congregation is demanding. They know this whose doing what, when they start getting little more mature, they put pressure say why this grihastha sitting in the temple, he’s not doing any service for the temple, the temple is an outside job. What’s he doing in the temple, better if he’s outside…actually congregation puts a lot of pressure on the temple devotees to just do preaching they do this is Varnasharam.

 

So actually, our system is a bit following the daiva varnashrama. Who lives in a temple should be the brahmachari or vairagya, a brahmachari, varnaprastha, sanyasa and maintained by the temple also the *Goshalas, brahmana’s, grihastha’s who are living in a simple way and simply doing their devotional service for Kṛṣṇa.

 

These are the four category that are maintained and very soon if you have a congregation that’s going to tell you find other people, they will complain that I don’t want to maintain somebody who is not serving the temple. See if overall interest it’s very clear we need to establish what is our overall role for the society.

 

What are our goal?

 

That’s what the congregation was supposed to do fix up what are our goals. What are the goals for congregational preaching?

 

What are the goals for book distribution?

 

What are the goals for the spiritual standard?

 

What are the goals for being Prabhupad conscious?

 

Like we have the different category what are the goals for management? and so on, what are the goals for harinām? goals for there’s 12 petals if we can achieve…be very clear it’s a good  opportunity to make our goals for the 12 petal petals, then the devotees can easily fit within this area. When somebody doesn’t want to cooperate with any of these activities then they may become an outcast then it’s a problem. But if they can fit within it then there’s no problem. Outcast you want to bring in the group, why be separatist?

 

There has to be a discipline. We don’t want like guerrilla warfare going on between the center, between those [Not Clear - 01:04:24] has to be smooth cooperation in fact be peddled by the spiritual way.

 

What if what normally government is supposed to manage thing, if someone doesn’t want to follow the government then that means he wants to act outside of the government that’s called guerrilla warfare. I don’t like the what someone’s doing there’s a way going about that, you come to the leader you convince that person that what your doing isn’t right. This a direct way. That’s Kṛṣṇa conscious way but I don’t like what someone doing or I want to do what he’s doing or whatever maybe some other interest I cannot achieve then I think I can achieve this, my desire may not be Kṛṣṇa conscious then we should give it up but if Kṛṣṇa conscious you should go about it the right way.

 

You shouldn’t be guerrilla warriors and then start doing underhanded politics or acting independently or whatever guerrilla warfare creates a big confusion what happens is that both the person being attacked he finds it hard to function and the person that’s attacking is also disqualified. So, it creates a disturbance not that guerrilla warrior gains his Kṛṣṇa conscious, he also loses, no more support, so we don’t want to be guerrilla warrior, we don’t want any disturbance, everything has to be done in a Kṛṣṇa conscious way.

 

So if you have different group, family, friends whatever so long as we don’t endorse [Not Clear - 01:05:56] so long as we follow the discipline, we work together in a cooperative way , we see that even if that person has a different way of dealing different way doing then so many different ways, that’s why making more groups is a *bad habit[Not Clear - 01:06:09] make a different group a different way but waves fit within overall approved program then it’s not a problem. That little bit of probation we have to have also include the different vision but the all the element. Someone says I want to start meat restaurant, no doesn’t fit with our vision. I want to start this with that some other program that’s also a [Not Clear - 01:06:35] want to use our man power in particular way so that we had to cooperate that what team work means.

 

You know Bali Maharaj was the general Indra was the general, and some other guy wants to come in and says I want to fight with Indra now may create a disturbance, they have to follow a certain recycles of war then you have to follow the general, you have to follow the structure.  Within that structure maximum we want to give people the ability to express the individual potential individual nature but within a certain limit, then it’s always there in life, otherwise will be confusion.

 

You can discuss more some theories are there that in congregational preaching you don’t need to have limits about area that anybody go to whatever program they want. There some theory like that. By the way I haven’t discussed it. I don’t know this is some people have that theory but we have never practiced this yet.

 

So a little bit we’re practicing in here somebody live in Treney will come to Bhagavat someone live in Bhagavat goes to Piyam someone lives in Bayem goes to Bayem , so that freedom is there people can go which ever program they like, within a particular area so far we have a particular organization because otherwise we don’t know how else to manage, if someone has a better idea how to manage they should discuss with the authority so that then there’s concept see if we can work or not and then we make a change. But thing is it has to be done systematically.

 

If one is very committed, we want to work together, one we work in the same consciousness, then only we can have some cooperation we can go ahead [Not Clear - 01:08:28]

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa!