19900923 Bhagavad-gītā 8.6 with Kavicandra Maharaja and Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu

Lecture Code: 19900923

 

Scripture: Bhagavad Gita

Verse: 8.6

Date:  Sep 23, 1990

Place: New Orleans, USA

 

Transcribed By: Bhagyavati Subhadra Devi Dasi

Transcribed On: 03 July, 2018

 

STATUS: COMPLETE

 

 

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His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

In Cambodia the whole Indochina, Cambodia allows printing books in those languages. And also this is Kavi Chandra Maharaj special guest today at New orleans sankirtan pur temple. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Then we also have His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa adhikari who’s the chairman of our American GBC commity of all the temples and all the governing body commissioner. He’s also GBC incharge of areas, I mean I’ll mention all of them but Washington, Philadelphia, the Gita Nagari Farm, Detroit and that whole section of North America. He’s a worldwide preacher of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, respected by all the devotees. And he also is very active in preaching to the professors and the university preaching. From the material side he’s been given a Phd so he’s preaching to other persons with doctorates and students as well. Both Kavi Chandra Maharaj and Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu are initiating Gurus of ISKCON have guiding their disciples and many devotees through the various difficulties they come up in spiritual life and in the personal. They’re here. So we gonna do is everyone is gonna speak a little bit tonight it’s called in India Dharma Sabha. Those who Indian know about Dharma Sabha, different speakers speak for shorter period of time and that way you get more variety, add a little spice. I can’t see what the verse number is. Okay

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:(leads the chanting of the verse, devotees repeat)

 

yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ

tyajaty ante kalevaram

taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya

sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ

 

yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ

tyajaty ante kalevaram

taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya

sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ

 

TRANSLATION:

 

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.

 

TRANSLATION WITH REPETITION:

 

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.

 

PURPORT: by Srila Prabhupada

 

The process of changing one’s nature at the critical moment of death is here explained. A person who at the end of his life quits his body thinking of Kṛṣṇa attains the transcendental nature of the Supreme Lord, but it is not true that a person who thinks of something other than Kṛṣṇa attains the same transcendental state. This is a point we should note very carefully. How can one die in the proper state of mind? Mahārāja Bharata, although a great personality, thought of a deer at the end of his life, and so in his next life he was transferred into the body of a deer. Although as a deer he remembered his past activities, he had to accept that animal body. Of course, one’s thoughts during the course of one’s life accumulate to influence one’s thoughts at the moment of death, so this life creates one’s next life. If in one’s present life one lives in the mode of goodness and always thinks of Kṛṣṇa, it is possible for one to remember Kṛṣṇa at the end of one’s life. That will help one be transferred to the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa. If one is transcendentally absorbed in Kṛṣṇa’s service, then his next body will be transcendental (spiritual), not material. Therefore the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is the best process for successfully changing one’s state of being at the end of one’s life.

 

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation and purport to chapter 8, text 6 of the Bhagavad Gita As it is in the matter of Attaining The Supreme

 

om ajnana-timirandhasya

jnananjana-salakaya

cakshur unmilitam yena tasmai

sri-gurave namah

 

nama om vishnu-padaya Kṛṣṇa-preshthaya bhu-tale

srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine

 

sri-Kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityananda

sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

 

nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya

naraṁ caiva narottamam

devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsaṁ

tato jayam udīrayet

 

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam

 

paramananda-madhavam

sri-caitanyam isvaram

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

So we can only remember normally our present life starting from the childhood to whatever point we are at present. There are some who are either directly or through hypnotism able to remember previous lives. But this is not a normal faculty that everyone has. Although we can’t remember what we were in our previous life but according to the vision of the vedas, with the help of the vision in the vedas just like we use a telescope in order to see the moon or the starts or distinct planets. In order to see realities which are normally not possible for us to see, we use this aid of the vedas. Vedas mean the spiritual literatures written thousands of years ago by incarnations of Lord Kṛṣṇa, great realized souls. And they give us an insight into things which otherwise we would not be able to know. This is a very big question in everyone’s life, what happens after this life is finished? What was I before I was born? If anything. So the vedas explain that we’re actually the living force within the body. We are the what makes the body alive. We are spiritual energy, a dynamic force. And when we leave this body the body is called dead. But the living force never dies. Is a type of spiritual personal energy of God, in all of us, are of this spiritual energy. But some are realized, some are more awakened, some are less awakened, some are totally covered up. So while we’re in this human form of life we have a very special opportunity. Because in the human form of life or the human birth as it’s called in the vedas, manushya Janma, we can develop our consciousness to the point we can realize ourself or the spiritual force, the spiritual dynamic energy that we actually are. We can realize our personal self, we can realize the Supreme self or Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If we develop our consciousness in the human, in this human birth and realize God, realize Kṛṣṇa that is considered perfection. Even if we are not fully able to realize Kṛṣṇa but we’re able to remain in meditation on Kṛṣṇa throughout our entire life, and at the time of leaving our body we think of Kṛṣṇa, then in our next life we’ll go back to Kṛṣṇa. We can achieve the kingdom of God in the spiritual world. So whatever people think of during their lives that’s generally what they think of when they leave their body. In India there’s often the saying that young people don’t do too much devotion now wait till you get old. Then you can think of the Lord at final breaths. But unfortunately it’s not like that, we got a certain habit and according to that habit we think. So at the time of death all of a sudden we can’t just change. If we’re habituated to chanting

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Then it’s going to be very easy to think of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death. When we’re in emergency we think of Him, but if we’re used to thinking of something else well we may think who’s gonna take care of my pet dog or who’s gonna take care of my house or so many other things.

 

Srila Prabhupada when he was living in Allahabad, our spiritual master His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, I think most of you know about him. But when he was in Allahabad one of the North Indian cities, he went to see a friend who was on his deathbed. The doctor was there counselling him and telling him you have very little time to live. You should now prepare yourself for leaving your body. But that person who happened to be an industrialist, he grabbed the doctor’s hand and said to please give me one more year. I just invested two hundred thousand rupees in a new factory and if I can get one more year my money would double. The doctor said of course what can I do! It’s not in my hand, I’m only telling you what is state of your health, I cannot do miracles. So Srila Prabhupada was astonished what did the difference make if he had one more year less. If his money was the same or doubled he’s going to have to go. His health had come to that stage. But unfortunately he had never trained himself to think how to go to the next worlds? What is the spiritual reality beyond this life? So all he could think about was his present state. So that type of thought would bring one back again to a similar kind of birth, according to one’s karmas.

 

In calcutta also, I live mainly in India so I know more things in calcutta and India. There was interesting story just like you have here heros like Stallone Sylvester or Schwarzenegger people like that. Where they have kind of mini heros in India. One of these heros names was Uttama Kumar. He was a famous stunt man and hero of the stage. But he got very sick and he, his doctor went to see him and we happened to read the paper. And it said that in his, he was very sick and he, doctor told him you don’t have very long to live, you gonna die, you better prepare yourself, doctor will say prepare, we don’t know what to prepare because people weren’t trained how to prepare you. That training you get here in this Kṛṣṇa Conscious temple. How to prepare yourself to leave your body and go to the next birth. But obviously although he was a great hero he didn’t have the training. When the doctor told them that you’re going to die, he grabbed his doctor’s hand and he said, doctor! doctor! save me! save me! I want to live, bachao! bachao! save me I want to live. And he died right holding his doctor’s hand. So then the news paper man they went to the doctor and ask him that don’t you feel ashamed or embarrassed? So why? Your patient was holding your hand and while he was begging you to save him, he died. That don’t make you feel like embarrassed? Doctor said no, I saved him many times, it’s only one time I failed (laughing). I thought that was interesting.

 

Well we only fail, we only die once in his life but we should know where we’re going to go. So the vedas teach us that we should purify our mind we should have a regular practice through our whole life how to think of Kṛṣṇa. So the when we focus our mind on Kṛṣṇa at the time of leaving this body then the consciousness is purified. And it’s very easy to return back to the spiritual world back to Kṛṣṇa. Great souls have achieved this Bhishma Dev in the Mahabharat. He was personally looking at Kṛṣṇa when he left his body when everyone could see his soul achieved the Supreme destination. They’re many many examples. Even accidentally almost one great, one not great soul at all just ordinary Brahmana who’s fallen down from his religious duties. As a young man he deserted his wife and he ran off with some women that was almost like a call girl, left his place and society and became a thief, a robberer, after murderer. But since he was born as son of a priest he named all of his children after God’s name. When he was about to die he was very frightened by the thought of death. So he start calling out his youngest son who’s name was Narayana, a name of Kṛṣṇa. At that time by calling Narayana just at the time of death he was purified of all the sinful activity. And this is a famous story of Ajamila, he was then liberated from his bondage and later he achieved position back to home, back to Godhead. So like this they’re many examples.

 

So today this particular verse is telling us the importance, obtaining our consciousness throughout our life so that at any moment we can fix our mind on Kṛṣṇa, we’ll have that habit. In fact even if accidentally one stops their tone or they suddenly get startled if they just callout Kṛṣṇa’s name, that itself is a very good sign. A sign that you’ll get liberation in this lifetime.

 

So these are a just a few words. We have distinguish speakers today. So I like to request. So I request His Holiness Kavi Chandra Maharaj to give us some nectar on this occasion. Please put the microphone.

 

His Hilloness Kavi Chandra Swami:

Hare Kṛṣṇa! So, of course in spiritual subject matter there’s repetition because we’re trying to get simple points due do they’re very simple but practices alludes everyone, for some reason. Like he said in India they say you know wait to get all work now and when you get old you can become religious. And that’s I think I don’t know what it is now, when I am born I was child as watching television in midnight, they had the midnight ceremony something and they, they showed the sinful man who is just sinful his whole life and then he died and Jesus saved him. So the message was you know don’t worry God will save you. And he can do that, he does sometimes do that but except like this Ajamila was a special circumstance. His youthful life he was always very religious in practicing and so when he’s dead he calling a name of his small child Narayana Narayana. He actually remembered Narayana and then he, you know he was saved in the last minute. So that’s proof for the power of chanting the holy name. So the foolish people will think okay I’ll just do all nonsense now and then you know when time of death comes I’ll just chant then, you know then I’ll go back to Godhead. But the chances of doing that are not so good.

 

Like in India again we had one devotee who’s a big doctor there, big surgeon, in the big hospital in Bombay. So there was one lady and everything was gone, you know she was breaking down every organ. So they kept calling him in you know the kidneys gone, okay try this, the liver this, everything was breaking down. So finally he said there’s no hope, there’s nothing we can even try to do anymore. So he thought you know I’ll just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, tell her to chant. Saying that right in her ear he said you know bolo Hare Kṛṣṇa! He shouted. She went ah is my daughter coming where’s she, is my daughter coming? So he got another doctor, both ears Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hare Kṛṣṇa! She’s just say where is my daughter? Is she gonna come here in, she died. Because she had been so absorber in his material things that even at the time of death someone was trying to help her.

 

So the point of practicing is important thing then if we practice chanting even we’re not perfect but if we’re trying to practice everyday regularly chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa then Kṛṣṇa, He says ‘mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca’ from me come the knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness. That rememberance of course everything we remember is actually due to Kṛṣṇa the supersoul within. But especially remembering Kṛṣṇa in any circumstance and He’ll force His devotee to remember Him, if one is always trying to remember Kṛṣṇa. Because death can come in so many ways that we have this picture that they call it, he died peacefully or something but actually it’s not very peaceful. But any terrible things can happen in frighten and very hard to remember anything right? Or if you’re in airplane crash or something or atom bomb or even just dying a natural death everything chokes up, described in the Srimad Bhagavatam. You can’t breath and the eyes go bad and ears are ringing in its very in difficult to think straight. So it’s by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa that one will remember Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we stress this practicing and a bit the practice, it’s not more a bit the materialists say oh you Hare Kṛṣṇa’s why talk about death? You should forget about death, you know that that’s the idea of the materialist how to prepare for death, you just forget that there is any such thing. Try to enjoy at the max, maximum level at every moment. Or may be get life insurance. But even I heard, I don’t know I think somebody they said they were one life member we had and he was trying to sell life insurance, he says very very difficult. Cause people don’t wanted to admit that they might die. So selling that life insurance is not so easy. They don’t want to think no no not me or know know later on or you know I’m too young now I cashed it in. You know my father had me buy when I was in high school, as soon as I was 18 I cashed in $200. I couldn’t  image I could ever die what would be the value you know, I needed money then I want to enjoy.

 

So this is the problem, so the intelligent person in any spiritual path and I live in Japan so they have a Buddhist saying that life is just a journey to death. You born and you just travel and the goal is death, that’s where we’re gonna end up. No matter what you do no matter how much you stop for enjoyer where you suffer where you enjoy, ultimately you come to the point of death. So that’s intelligence, we should know that. That is’t not more bit that we, someone just say oh you know depressed all the time. Devotees very happy knowing that that if we practices in this life serving Kṛṣṇa which is very nice then in the next life you can be elevated. Especially by the potency of chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. It’s a special concession there that Srila Prabhupada said, if someone is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa at the time of death then he goes back to Godhead back to Kṛṣṇa immediately, it’s a special arrangement. So one should practice and the practice is very joyful, as Kṛṣṇa says this process is ‘su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam’ it’s very easy and very joyful. It’s not like painful austerities or something you practice dying suffer all the time, hold your breath there you know like the yogis. Yogid did that, they try to you know give up the pleasures of this material body that they may you know get different body, they go to heavenly planets but going to the topmost to Kṛṣṇa that is much better. And one can go, we don’t have to leave this body. So for the pure devotee that time like Srila Prabhupada he didn’t find any difficulty. His body was going through all the changes as he was leaving it that he was disturbed in the least because he was he knew he wasn’t his body. Even doctor said well, an ordinary person would be screaming in pain that all the things were wrong. But he was very peacefully talking about Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa's special mercy. And he showed that he started out by teaching us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take Kṛṣṇa prasadam, stop this sinful activities which will help make forget Kṛṣṇa and do everything for Kṛṣṇa. Offer food to Kṛṣṇa, ear the remnants, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, see the temple. It’s not so difficult, then one cam remember Kṛṣṇa, then we go to Kṛṣṇa, that’s the whole idea. If we remember Kṛṣṇa we go to Kṛṣṇa. Now people are thinking they believe in reincarnation here in America they don’t have so much understanding. They’re just thinking that they can go to, get a new car something enjoy in different way. But they don’t really understand so much. But the soul is changing bodies at the time of death it will change. So according to what we’re remembering we get the suitable body. So there Kṛṣṇa has created 8 million 400 thousand different species of lives to fulfill all these different desires that one might have. So we don’t want to get entangled in that going down t some lower species and having to go again by nature’s course. But rather to go to the spiritual world to not, just by remembering Kṛṣṇa. So we have to remember Kṛṣṇa now then death which come at any moment for remembering Kṛṣṇa always trying to serve Kṛṣṇa. Especially by chanting it’s very easy to remember Kṛṣṇa, automatic, Kṛṣṇa will remember even if we forget because of terrible circumstances that might happen, Kṛṣṇa will remember. And from the heart He’ll bring remembrance.

 

So this is the process that Lord Chaitanya gave Kirtan of the holy name. And we were asking everyone because the more, more people are chanting the more easy is to remember to chant. We’d like to go everywhere and find you know people chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It’s happening more and more all over the world. People are finding out about Kṛṣṇa by books or by hearing the kritan. And so that way one time Srila Prabhupada, someone asked Srila Prabhupada, this in India also they ask always questions, it’s something like how can it’s getting to be more and more people? It’s getting so crowded you know then he so because nobody is going back to Godhead? There where keeps coming back (laughing) so you have to, you know start open up that you know people chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and clear out the, everybody keeps taking birth again. Then nobody is going back to Godhead. So there the idea is all the problems but atleast individually in they so we, that’s why Lord Chaitanya made and we try to preach is to help everyone to chant and that helps us. Helps everyone, the more we find people chanting the more we remember to chant.

 

So now we’ll ask Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu to speak, his philosophy right, a philosopher. So we get some serious commentary.

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

Where in philosophy we can’t just repeat you know (laughing) you have to go certainly normal. Where Socrates who is a philosopher so that a philosopher is a person who know how to die. That was his definition of what a philosopher is. So there aren’t anymore, because people do not know the art of dying or actually it’s a science. Prabhupada uses these words, uses the word science to translate the sanskrit word vijnana. It’s two words in sanskrit Jnana, which means theoretical knowledge which you get from books and vijnana which is the practical application or science. So here Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa a little science how to die. Because Kṛṣṇa has been asked a question by Arjuna in this chapter. He says to Him, he says, how can those engaged in devotional service know you at the time of death? That’s the question that Arjuna has asked. So he wants to know this, asking about this time of death and Kṛṣṇa says, the previous verse, who ever the end of this life quits his body remembering me alone at once attains my nature, of this there is no doubt. Then He speaks this verse, whatever state of being so He is the general principle. First of all if you, at the time of death you think of me you attain my nature. Now the general principle is, whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body O son of Kunti, that state you will obtain without fail. And then again back to the immediate application, application ‘tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu mām anusmara’ therefore at all times ‘mām anusmara’ think of me, remember me and He says ‘yudhya ca’ and fight. Because he’s on the battlefield which is a place where people were dying anyway, a dangerous position. So that’s the answer, whatever state of being one remembers you will attain without fail. So here there’s a science to die and we deal with this business death. Mostly it’s dealt with is or it has been mentioned by denile simply pretending that it doesn’t take place.

 

Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad Gita that the real problems of life birth, death, old age and disease. So you’ve noticed that no matter how hard we work and how much money we get to whatever we achieve birth, death, old age and disease are going to be there, no matter what the circumstances. But people don’t really seem to be too protrude about it on the surface. There is a survey taken recently among Americans see what thing they’re most afraid of? And death astonishingly enough was you know number 15 on the list or something like that. First thing on the list was unemployment. Well think about it, let’s ask a guy why you’re afraid of unemployment? Well I don’t have any money. What happens if you don’t have any money? Well I’d be not able to eat. What happens if you don’t eat? Well then I die. So, I mean it’s the death problem isn’t it? But you can handle it when you think it’s unemployment but if we just think of it is death, then what you are going to do? And that’s their problem, it’s finally because after all death remain the number one killer (laughing). And after all so many advances in medical science the death rate is the same now that was in the middle age it’s just 100% (laughing). There is the problem, it’s a intractable problem. But actually our business is meant to solve it because we actually protest why do I have to die? Why does everything come to me? What happens at the time of death? We have a higher consciousness and actually it’s symptom of our spiritual nature that we protest against this fact. Because we’re eternal beings and this death is really an artificial imposition upon us and it’s not natural. Actually Prabhupada said in one place, he said that death in an illusion we’ve imposed upon ourselves due to our desire to enjoy in this world. So our real business is to take it seriously. It is not that we go along making plans and everything would be alright then all of a sudden death comes. It’s a big surprise to everybody, they don’t plan it in, do their affaires, it’s a big interruption. And when somebody is in the process of dying they think why me? As though they were uniquely single about (laughing).

 

And little while ago there is a, I was talking to a guest at the Philadelphia temple college girl and she finally confessed me that actually she didn’t think she was going to die. She thought she was different. She thought that even though so many hundreds of generations have died, somehow or other she was different. And of course you can’t prove, this is the problem with induction if no proof that she actually is going to die. So on that slender chance that she was unique she thought somehow or other she really escape the problem. This is called narcissism in psychological language. It’s somehow like that I’m so special and nothing bad will ever happen to me. This is not a good way to deal with problem. So we are not meant to die like cats and dogs. One reason people don’t want to deal with it is just simply that they have no idea what it is? What it means? What we suppose to do?  They make all their plans to live forever and when the death comes they’re shocked and surprised and outraged. And so the best thing to do is let’s try to ignore it, let’s sleep in under the rug. But that doesn’t work so well because always they’re in anxiety and nervous all the time. And the reason they’re nervous is that they’re building a kingdom, it’s a fools paradise whatever you got in this world because any second it can be taken away. At one second it will be taken away.

 

One definition of death I read, that was in astrology book but it is a very good definition, it say death is the ultimate failure to perpetuate relationships. So here we are busy making all these relationships with our family members or friends, society, country everything. And in those relationships we have our dealing and no idea and then shh. Every single one of them blown and we don’t know what happens. So here Kṛṣṇa is telling us what the, what happened that actually we can have control over this process at the time of death. Prabhupada uses this simple example that if you got an apartment and you know that a certain day lease is going to be up. It’s not a good idea to spend all time fixing up your apartment, you should consider what would be your future when you’re out on the street. So also that should be our business. We should see this life as one part of, continue of life and the crucial juncture is the time of death, it’s a transferal point. And we can actually, as He says here we have control of it because whatever state of being one remembers, to that state he attains. So that’s the principle.

 

So then now we have to make sure that at the time of death, here our goal should be actually to get free from this business all together. We actually need to find those relationships that never perish. And that’s the life of a devotee. Whatever relationship here we establish with Kṛṣṇa, that relationship will never be broken. Whatever relationships we establish on the spiritual platform with Kṛṣṇa, with the devotees, those are perpetual relationships, that will never be broken. Actually in this material world we cannot love. Because anything that we love on a material basis is temporary and therefore because of that there’s so much pain involved. Even before the pain happens where the separation takes place, we know it. And so it’s very difficult, our love wants to expand without any limit. But as soon as you love somebody then your suffering really begins. Your girlfriend finds another guy you know right from the beginning you find out these things how people change, things go on and death is always there to destroy everything. So it actually puts you limit, the more you love the more pain that there is. Because we’re loving on the material platform and we’re forming attachment to temporary things. So when we turn our love to Kṛṣṇa then that love can expand without limit because that is secure. It’s beyond the material platform, it doesn’t change, its not affected by time, by death, that’s the reality. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is recommending, you think of Me. Here are the relationships and there’s no failure to perpetuate there. Then that, that’s why they called the real relationships, our relationships with Kṛṣṇa and with Kṛṣṇa’s devotees, they go on forever.

 

So that’s how we can achieve in the human form of life. That if we’re successful human beings we do not have to die anymore. But there’s a human potential movement, what is the human potential? Not to have to die again. That’s what parents should want to give to their child. How would you like to be able to save your child from death. You go to the doctors and so much vaccination is there and make sure he’s, you know the gate is latched and the seat belt is tighten all this type of stuff. But do you gonna save that child from death? But if you can give that child Kṛṣṇa Consciousness you can actually do that. And that is the obligation of a parent. It says that no one should become a parent or a teacher or a civic leader unless one knows how to save one’s dependants from death. So that’s the actual human potential and it’s a science. And Kṛṣṇa here in the bief verse telling us the basic principle of that science. So that if we learn it and apply it we can become fully accomplished as successful human beings.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Hare Kṛṣṇa! So today we went discussing chapter 8 verse 6 you heard a lot of very illuminating philosophy and practical guidelines how to face this problem without any fear. Just in conclusion I remember that there was one pastime of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu where Lord Chaitanya was, as every evening gathering together with His devotees in the house of Srivas Thakur.

 

Jai Radha Radhakanth ki! Jai!

 

And they would chant

 

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

And dance in ecstasy. However this night there was some kind of a disturbance. They would be chanting in the garden, chanting and dancing in the garden of Srivas in the place called Srivas Angan or garden. But from Srivas’s house there was some noise so Srivas went in and he found that his wife and other ladies of the house were crying. So what’s the matter? And she says your son, he said what’s wrong? He’s dead. He’s dead. Then he saw, and there’s nothing I could do so you don’t disturb Lord Chaitanya’s kirtan! Be quite! And they start wailing, what do you mean, your son is dead then all crying you know (laughing). He said listen, if you don’t stop then I’m going to commit suicide jumping in the Ganges. You have to cry for your son and the husband (laughing). So that got them frightened and they’re quite (laughing). So he went out and join the kirtan (laughing). After end of the kirtan late in the night then early in the morning and Lord Chaitanya He asked, what was that disturbance and the kirtan was completing He asks Srivas, what was that disturbance in your house? And he said well my son Gopal he died. What? Your son died you didn’t tell us? No I don’t want to disturb you Lord. Aray! Then Lord Chaitanya we can’t believe it what? This is beyond what is required of a devotee. Devotee doesn’t have to be that extreme. When He was saying that, this, this calling the devotee, what devotee is compatible with this? what you do such a things Srivas? Where is your son Gopal? He says in the house. So bring his body here now. So the they brought out the body of Gopal. The the wife she couldn’t, mother of Gopal couldn’t, Malini couldn’t contain us so she was crying, feeling very bad her may be 12 or 15 year old son, forgot the age exactly, young man suddenly passed away. It was something that no one had expected. The Lord had bringing Him back from the death. That why have you left your loving mother and father Srivas and Malini? So then Gopal opened his eyes and he started to speak. First thing watch is that why have you left? He said my Lord we come into this world and we go by your call, according to your laws. So why you’re asking me? When that was my time I have to leave this body and I have to go on. And He said why did you leave your mother and father? They’re loving you so much. Then he said which mother and which father? Every life I have a mother and a father. I had millions of mothers and fathers. And that all Gopal since he left his body he was seeing things from the transcendental view. No Srivas and Malini that he has, because of their blessing this is my last life because they’re your pure devotees so they have simply trained me in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So now having left my body while you were chanting you were calling me back to the spiritual world.

 

(aside:) And you ask them anymore questions? You want to ask? (laughing) You didn’t have anything to say?

 

Then Gopal laid down and the body became lifeless again. And everyone even the mother she realize that my son is not dead. He’s alive but now he’s, was with us sometime now he’s gone and he’s gone by the mercy of Lord Chaitanya to the Supreme place. So everybody was like you know the hairs was standing on hand and they were like completely speechless you know then they all started kirtan because was such a nice devotee they’re feeling little sad that he left. At the same time they were feeling very happy that he’s going back to Kṛṣṇa. So they took his body down to the Ganges and perform the last rights. And took their bath in the Ganges and Lord Chaitanya personally carried the body and the devotees were overwhelmed with kindness of the Lord. So in the pastimes of Lord Chaitanya the followers they could also understand that in this life it is meant to transcend this fear of death to achieve our eternal spiritual life and we can achieve that even while we were living by understanding the science of the Bhagavad Gita.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

(aside:) So thank you very much for spending this time with us tonight. These teachings are by the grace of His Divine Grace Srila Abhay Charan Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who brought this science here to the west to liberate all of the western people, to save them from this life of ignorance where we don’t know who we are? Or where we are going at the end of life? So offer obeisances to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada ki! Jai! Hare Kṛṣṇa!

 

Maha pranam I hand over the ceremony snan to you, our temple president. What’s the next on the program? Oh yes first we have questions. I’m sorry. And if anyone has a question you can address to anyone

 

(devotee:) Question (inaudible 39:52)

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Want to answer Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu? Ya I really wanted to (laughing)

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

Hare Kṛṣṇa! Best thing there is to get people in the middle east chant Hare Kṛṣṇa that seeing so many problems in the soviet union didn’t that? Like think unless some Soviet devotee is the Washington DC temple. Said that a bunch of them working on a you know orange growth in the Soviet Georgia south and oranges are a code of delicacy in the Soviet Union only very nomenclature at the, in people get oranges. So whenever the Polit Bureau would meet, the ruling committee of communist party. Is the devotees, several devotees job because I mean we had to work in the Soviet Union. So they have just in a collective farm there's oranges growth. They go and pick oranges and pack them in special crates to be taken up for the hexary communist party to eat. And they go out in the fields, they pick over the oranges and they’d wash them and they set up in the Altar and they’d offer more to Kṛṣṇa and then they pack them up and send them up (laughing). So for a long time finally all the biggest communists in the Soviet Union were eating Kṛṣṇa Prasad.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Haribol!

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

So these are ways when which we can change or applying that. So I think even if we can’t get people in that part of the country to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we may have some method to do smuggling in oranges or something (laughing) I don’t know. But ultimately it has to be Kṛṣṇa Consciousness that solves these problems in world because they’re due to our false ego of lording at the material nature here. And the false conception of being the enjoyer and the controller. And unless so that concept appear people far to their conception they’re not going to change their behaviour. So that’s how we have to do. And Prabhupada in said that if, world war 3 was scheduled to happen, I think between the Soviet Union and United states. It was really in the works then all of a sudden it just blown away. And Prabhupada he said that if there’s a, there is enough chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in the Soviet Union, it would change that. I’m seeing this it work. Of course you know then there is another problem but anyway. Said ultimately you have to change consciousness. And so protocol now is said to pray.

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Any other question?

 

(devotee:) Question (inaudible 42:37)

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Kani Chandra Maharaj

 

His Hilloness Kavi Chandra Swami:

Srila Prabhupada call it skin, skin disease that you’re just thinking. Actually everyone is the spirit soul, everyone is a, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme father of everyone so we’re all brothers. So we should be able to live together, no problem but because we don’t see that, we just see the skin and others one different. And even like now in the middle east they all have the same skin but they got, they you know they think that they’re different kinds of religion there so in India also skin disease, their bodily consciousness and they’re not aware of the souls. So it’s the same thing when you become aware of the soul then everyone can live peacefully as described the ashrams of the yogis the tigers and the deer were sleeping with each other you know resting the head on the deer and the tiger. And all kinds of normally hostile living entities would become peaceful in that good atmosphere. But in the atmosphere of bodily consciousness in everybody is envious in everybody else and everybody is thinking I’m special and I’m different, and this one is different. Graduates everybody against everybody. Not you know doesn’t matter what, everybody is against everybody because everybody is thinking I’m you know supreme and everything is threatening me. So if we think that this you know different religious persons threatening me, this different color person is threatening me it is so many things. Gangs we have in Los Angeles I don’t know how many ganges now they say you know every, everybody has a gang even the mexicans that were born in California consider themselves far superior to the Mexicans that were born in Mexico and they have seperate gangs and you know there is different generations in different neighbourhoods in the, each Italian in because more more immigrants are coming, there’s more gangs. They are all just thinking we are different you know we’re special, we’re the enemy. But the devotees think we’re all, everyone is the spirit soul.

 

So like Prabhupada went to New York city all by himself and he didn’t just said that, I thought everyone was my friend. He didn’t feel threatened cause he can see everyone is spirit soul. And that person in that consciousness no one threatens him. They also become friends of, so that’s the difference. Has to be spiritual consciousness.

 

Any other question?

 

I, when I first went to the temple I was asked the question when we, when we’re gonna eat you know start. Ya ya we know I said I know all these (laughing). They stop talking I never said it though (laughing)

 

(devotee:) Question (inaudible 45:26)

 

His Hilloness Kavi Chandra Swami:

Considered a philosophical question (laughing) philosophical answer.

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

Well if I just may offer a worldly observation that my experiences common sense is extremely on common, I don’t know why (laughing) it goes better name common sense. Because you don’t find it so much. But it seems like the basic problem is that people are taking more than they need. They have a mentality of lording at over material nature with the Idea that I’m the enjoyer and the controller. As the french anarchist famous saying was ‘property is theft’. But theft from whom, he never said. But actually it's theft from Kṛṣṇa, who’s actually the owner. He says ‘sarva-loka-maheśvaram’, He's the owner of all the planetary systems. So if we respect Kṛṣṇa's proprietorship that's what the meaning of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is, everything I see belongs to Kṛṣṇa and therefore only take what we need just to satisfy, that's specific is given to us, we have our quota. And an an elephant in Africa and he need so many bushels of hail everyday and he gets it. And there's an ant which needs so many little grains of sugar and he gets it. Everybody is entitled, every living being is entitled. What it needs to stay alive and to stay healthy. But what we done is become so greedy they we’re taking far in excess of what we need. And therefore causing big disturbance all over the planet to all of the living beings. And for that we have to suffer. But as a slogan going around you know 'just say no and people can't just say no'. they're addicted to whatever they have , they think it's a necessity. They won't undergo the difficulty of changing and so then that, the problem is that later on there will be great settling of course with material nature. But I guess people think there would be somebody else's problem, I'll be dead and gone, my grandchildren's problems whatever unfortunately we have, not behaving very responsibly. But that has to be solution if is not recognition that God is the owner of everything and a friend of everyone and the enjoyer of everything, then there would be a change in consciousness.

 

(devotee:) Question (inaudible 48:54)

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

Not much

 

(devotee:) not much

 

His Holiness Ravindra Svarupa Dasa Adhikari:

You know it's prompt. There's we have some devotees I know who are preaching very actively in the middle east. And you know it's really village named Vama of all places. It's full of a group of people called Durze. You may have read about them in eleven the column Druze muslims sometimes. They're an offshoot of muslims. Their teachings are secret and for good reason because of they came to know they would be killed. But they believe in transmigration of the soul and so on. They love our books, they love Srila Prabhupada’s books, they read them all the time. He has met all their leaders. When I was in Washington DC a Druze came up to me the capital mall and said, Hey are we really like you people and I just got another letter from this devotees saying he found another muslim sect that believes is transmigration of really likes reading Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita and things like that. so they're places where Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is beginning to take a tow whole but it is very hard. Another devotee they went to Saudi Arabia and got a job in a computer company to try to introduce Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and this is very difficult because if you get caught preaching to a Saudi something other than Islam you'd be killed very quickly. And he was unable to do anything, the only people they could preach to the foreign workers from India (laughing). It's so, so it's a difficult place but we have to do everything we can and keep trying and pray to Kṛṣṇa. And we do distribute books in Arabic all over the place but not in the Middle East, in France, in London. But these people are going everywhere shopping you know so they buy our books (laughing). So we do have Bhagavad Gita in Arabic and it, it does go out quite a bit. Ya but just not in, had in the middle east. But it gets back you know, it’ll get back people take it home it will take time but we’re doing it. Because they all go and shop in the Paris and London and everything they have money, where they’re going to spend it? Not in the dessert. New york and there’s some people there very interested in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness that is much as I know about it.

 

(devotee:) Question (inaudible 51:24)

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

They’re several different training programs in India. One is called the Vrindavan where there was a Vaishnava institute (aside: Vaishnav institute of higher education) of higher education which has two sessions a year. One is already started or about to start? Started last week and would go for a month. And then one in January in Mayapur going up to the end of the sem, at well January, beginning of february. Those are one month courses where devotees from around the world can take some instructions in Kṛṣṇa Conscious philosophy, practical applications, things from etiquette or Brahma Samhita, Srimad Bhagavatam. What is some the other one course (aside: defeating Mayavadi philosophy), defeating Mayavadi philosophy, (aside: cooking) cooking all kinds of things. That’s a kind of a one month crash course. It’s very intensive specially meant for the preachers who cannot stay, well that meant for everybody. But I mean you can just go for a month, you don't have to commit yourself to a long term. Or apart from that in Mayapur the Gurukul has some special training program. I think they also have similar programs in Vrindavan where you can learn Bhakti Sastri, Bhakti Vaibhav. You can learn various subjects under the vedic topic. So there’s also a special deity worship academy which is being formed where people were devotees who want to learn deity worship can come for three or six months. Apart from that for the westerner just to be in India, being able to serve in India itself is a kind of a university education and so it’s like a whole opening be of vision because many of the things we read in the books about simple living, is a lot of people still doing that in India. And lot of the cultural aspects how to relate with people, how different things are done in a vedic context are still being practiced that you know to a life's degree in many parts of India. Especially the, amongst them are less westernized, more pious people. So this is also very good training to be in the holy dhams.

 

We were discussing this morning about the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa how we can always remember Kṛṣṇa as we also discussed tonight. That’s the perfection of life, that gives us the ticket for after this life to go back to the spiritual world. So to visit the places where Kṛṣṇa performed His pastimes, where Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu performed all of His different lilas and pastimes. That also gives a, a special remembrance of Kṛṣṇa a very deeper experience. Sometimes being in the west we take on, especially for the preachers they take on a, suddenly some of the mentalities of the people they preach to. And it’s hard to cut through that where little visit to the holy dhams in India and doing some devotional service is like almost going to another planet. In fact it is going to another worlds, from a material world to a spiritual world. And that helps to correct the kind of imbalances of the person gets, brings everything in to a proper perspective. We hope that the devotees who will utilize all these experiences to come back as you said and improve the qualities of the programs in our temples here in the west and be more enthusiastic for preaching. So far generally we see that, (laughing) sometimes people get a culture shock going to India also because externally they didn’t know what to expect, they had to face many things they didn’t anticipate but then if they can get over that they may can learn a lot of practical things which are, are type of personal wealth in their spiritual life. I know that every year His Holiness Kavi Chandra Swami Maharaj sends a group of devotees from Japan to mayapur for the festival they go on the parikramas and the pada yatra walking through the different holy places. And it seems that this is given them a lot of experience when they go back to Japan. They’re very enthusiastic.

 

Did you find that the helps them to contain?

 

His Hilloness Kavi Chandra Swami:

(inaudible 56:00)

 

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami:

Okay now it’s time for prasadam, there’s another questions will be here for us in another half an hour. You can come and discuss with these holy guests and we hope that you come every week to the sunday feast here and take prasadam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be happy.

 

Haribol!