19871020 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.5.19-21

The following is a class given by His His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on October 20th, 1987 at New Talavan Farm in Carriere, Mississippi. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8th Canto, Chapter 5, text 19-21.

niśāmyaitat sura-gaṇā
mahendra- varuṇādayaḥ
nādhyagacchan svayaṁ
mantrair mantrayanto viniścitam

There is another verse 17 and 18th together

tato Brahmā-sabhāṁ jagmur
meror mūrdhani sarvaśaḥ
sarvaṁ vijñāpayāṁ cakruḥ
praṇatāḥ parameṣṭhine

Translation: Lord Indra, Varuṇa and the other demigods, seeing their lives in such a state, consulted among themselves, but they could not find any solution. Then all the demigods assembled and went together to the peak of Sumeru Mountain. There, in the assembly of Lord Brahmā, they fell down to offer Lord Brahmā their obeisance’s, and then they informed him of all the incidents that had taken place.

Texts 19-20

sa vilokyendra-vāyv-ādīn
niḥsattvān vigata-prabhān
lokān amaṅgala-prāyān
asurān ayathā vibhuḥ
samāhitena manasā
saṁsmaran puruṣaṁ param
uvācotphulla-vadano
devān sa bhagavān paraḥ

Translation: Upon seeing that the demigods were bereft of all influence and strength and that the three worlds were consequently devoid of auspiciousness, and upon seeing that the demigods were in an awkward position whereas all the demons were flourishing, Lord Brahmā, who is above all the demigods and who is most powerful, concentrated his mind on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus being encouraged, he became bright-faced and spoke to the demigods as follows.

*repetition*

Purport: After hearing from the demigods the real situation, Lord Brahmā was very much concerned because the demons were unnecessarily so powerful. When demons become powerful, the entire world is placed in an awkward position because demons are simply interested in their own sense gratification and not in the welfare of the world. Demigods or devotees, however, are concerned with the welfare of all living beings. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, for example, left his minister ship and went to Vṛndāvana for the benefit of the entire world (lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau). This is the nature of a saintly person or demigod. Even impersonalists think of the welfare of all people. Thus Brahmā was very much concerned at seeing the demons in power.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation and purport to texts 17,18,19 and 20 of chapter 5, Canto 8 of The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the matter of Demigods appeal to The Lord.

Jayapatākā Swami: Demigods are being defeated by demons, demigods are bereft of their influence, they try to figure out a solution but they couldn't so they went to Lord Brahmā. This is paramparā system. Someone, somehow finds oneself in a difficult position, this case is material it may also be spiritual. One tries to solve the problems, discuss with one’s peers, immediate associates, he is not able to find out the spiritual solution then he goes to the spiritual authority. Of course in the case of Lord Brahmā then he meditates upon Kṛṣṇa, he goes to Kṛṣṇa, the next highest authority. Brahmā is the highest authority in the material world only higher than him is The Supreme Personality of Godhead.

It’s interesting to know how all of the pious people in the universe they all become impoweress because of the offence of Indra. Durvāsā muni was going along, Durvāsā muni thought let me give my blessings to Indra. He offered Indra a flower garland. Indra was riding on his elephant, he didn't take it very seriously that a great sage like Durvāsā muni is offering flower garland, instead he put it on the trunk of his elephant. The elephant what is he going to do with the flower garland, he tosses it, next he keeps walking and swishhh and it goes under his feet. Durvāsā muni he is very powerful, he can give a blessing, *laugh* he can also give a curse, so he felt insulted. Here I give my blessings to this Indra, instead he tosses the thing on the ground and tramples on it. Alright, let’s see how powerful and influential he is, he thinks he is so big with his wealth, he curses him to become completely poor.

Indra, demigods are responsible for administration in universe, administration becomes poor, the people become poor. So all the planets, they suffer, all the general citizens become materially difficult position. Just like when there is a weak government, the honest citizen they suffer, but the criminals they flourish. So all the demons who don't follow the law, the government anyway they have a mayday. Because the government sleep, they attack the government, they attack the demigod. It’s a universal government and the demons and the organized crime whatever they completely take over the show. So the demigods they are in a difficult situation, what to do. They go to Lord Brahmā, to try to figure out what is the solution. So Prabhupāda in the previous purport he mentions how the modernist materially opulent why he should learn to be sober and well behaved towards Vaiṣṇavas and saintly persons, otherwise he will fall down.

Prabhupāda also quotes “the materially opulent person does not care about anyone and thus he commit’s offense to great personalities such as devotees and great saints”. This is the way of material opulence, as described by Śukadeva gosvāmī. dhana-durmada-andhā. dhana means wealth, durmada, andha. Prabhupāda quotes that too much wealth makes ones blind. Dhana is wealth. Durmada means intoxicated, dur means bad or inauspicious, andha means blind, durmadāndha means one who is completely misdirected and blind due to his own madness, his own post pride, wealth. Sometimes you find that because people have some material prosperity, they neglect the devotees. They look down on them, who are these people but as a result they are missing a great opportunity to further advance by serving Kṛṣṇa through the devotees. Devotees are the representatives of Kṛṣṇa on this Earth.

When the Vaiṣṇavas go out and engage the karmīs into the devotional service then it’s a great opportunity for them to actually take these blessings of The Lord and further advance. This saṅkīrtan devotees are spreading the mercy of The Lord all around. The persons knowingly give to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that ajñāta-sukṛti, that conscious pious result most auspicious for them, of course some all this Hare Kṛṣṇas, I won't give anything to them, then it is not so good for them. However sometimes someone may not know who are these people very clearly but they give so they get ajñāta-sukṛti, unknowingly they are giving so they get some benefit. So like that there are different categories.

In this case Indra even though he was so powerful, he also is very proud but at the same time to worry about all these saints and things. He gets a garland gives it to his elephant, it's like someone you know give a, gives it to his dog. So, Vaiṣṇavas of course generally doesn't curse anyone. Difference in the Vaiṣṇavas and the great saints and even the great saints sometime if they see that someone is misdirected due to too much material opulence. They can also remove that. Person gets, like Indra gets a big position, head administrator of the universe. Lot of opulence, lot of wealth, lot of power because of his previous activities but the saints they can redirect the karmic flow, by their curse they can remove or redirect or do anything.

Karma is a fluid thing but for the conditioned soul doesn't have control over. They are on the higher levels, Kṛṣṇa and even the controlling demigods they have the power to reconfirm the arrangement of the karma, do various things. But even, we know from the Bhāgavatam that sometimes a person carry or do something and give the karma to someone else. It was one Ekādaśī, I think a king he was having difficulties so the whole kingdom observed the Ekādaśī and gave the reactions to the king, pious reactions, he got corrected from his difficulty.

So karma is something that can, it’s changeable on a higher level to spiritual sacrifices, through offences, to various things like that. But normally just by material endeavour you can't get out of it, person is locked in. I was explaining out of many examples of this even astrologer they would predict something and someone will try his level best to get out of it. But that would still happen because he would try different material methods. Karma can be changed but not by material method.

Someone insults a chaste woman calling her a prostitute or something like that, that can reduces his longevity. In other words good karmī has that normally one enjoys the good karma then you get the bad reactions. So that just reduces the time he will get the bad reactions, just like insulting pious, saintly people, where according to experts on praśna, omens, science and things like that. It someone starts a journey and sees a chaste woman at the beginning of the journey, that means the journey will be successful and many other signs but just like that. So the same thing can be Durvāsā muni he gave a, he could have taken, thank you very much with humility, he could have taken whatever blessing was there from Durvāsā muni. And went with it but instead he drew it off, he got cursed, now the whole universe is suffering, the whole universe is suffering because of one person, unconscious thought, unconscious act. This offence is a very serious matter.

I was explaining this morning about the story of Haridāsa Ṭhākura and Gopāla Chakravarty who insulted him saying that he was a fanatic. And how he could get love of Kṛṣṇa by, how he could get liberation by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa even accidentally. So when that happened the, his employers they went and begged through Haridāsa Ṭhākura please forgive us. Why should they beg forgiveness, they didn't commit any offence. The other ones committed offence because they heard the offense, they were present, everyone who was present, anyone who hears it doesn't protest they all party to the reactions. So they knew that, they are expert in the science, immediately went to Haridāsa Ṭhākura, please forgive, touched his feet, please forgive us and they fired that offender immediately.

Ramachandra Khan, he offended Haridāsa Ṭhākura by sending that Hira, the prostitute after dancing girl, to try to cause Haridāsa Ṭhākura to fall down. Then afterwards Nityānanda prabhu came. He again, he insulted Nityānanda Prabhu. So then after that, after Nityānanda was insulted and left, then the yavanas came and they completely looted everything. The mohammedan, bigger tax collector came, looted the property of Ramachandra Khan, burn down the village. You know, they just didn't destroy complete, they just wiped out the entire village, so Prabhupāda explains in the purport, “that not only Ramachandra Khan, even the innocent villagers, who worked, who didn't know anything about it, they all had to take this, they all part of the same community, they all had to take the reactions for offending the Vaiṣṇava, Nityānanda Prabhu”.

So that's why these lessons are there we read over them, we lean over them. One thing that Prabhupāda repeatedly said, he was very concerned about, was that in the west words are exchanged very freely. Arguments are cheap and we don't take it very seriously and he was concerned about that. We are all Vaiṣṇavas, we are all pure devotees, we are all dear to Kṛṣṇa, don't fight amongst yourselves, that will be vaiṣṇava-aparādha, don't think that only I am a Vaiṣṇava, you are all vaiṣṇavas. Don't fight among, you can give blessings to people, he used to tell.

Someone wanted to go out, preaching in the middle east, suddenly he will say, call all the vaiṣṇavas give him your blessings. Who are we to give blessings, Prabhupāda give blessings is enough, that's all right, my blessings are there, you are also Vaiṣṇavas you give your blessings. For us it was very difficult to understand because, because see that Prabhupāda was a directly empowered by Kṛṣṇa and we are very insignificant but yet Prabhupāda would always call in the devotees and request to give your blessings, encourage this person.

At the same time he would say don't fight, don't criticize each other. So maybe someone is a, biggest in the universe Vaiṣṇava, someone is a small, he is a, is she big Vaiṣṇava but still all Vaiṣṇavas are dear to Kṛṣṇa, and should not be offended. I was even shocked, actually shocked to see in the 11th Canto, how it's explained in the purport that even a uttama-adhikārī if he offends a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, obstructs a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī in his spiritual progress, out of false pride or out of some offensive mentality, then the uttama adhikārī can fall down from his position. And become again conditioned soul. That means that offences are practically number one enemy. This is the AIDS of the devotee. (devotees laugh). It’s the, they call that acquired immune deficiency syndrome.

That we, we are only able to remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness as long as we have the shelter of guru, guru-paramparā, Kṛṣṇa, Chaitanya, Nityānanda, by their mercy we are protected. Even māyā send some thought, send some things, how is it we are able to be immune to any degree or even if someone has a fault. how they are able to recover and again remain in the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, that's by their protection, by the mercy. If that's removed then māyā, there is no defence. The individual soul is not strong enough to defend against māyā. It’s only by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa that one can be protected against māyā.

That's why Śrīla Prabhupāda again and again he admonished, you claim to the lotus feet of Nitāi and Gaur, then you'll be protected. It’s very difficult because our nature is always to be just be very kind of, somethings are constructed, criticism is also aspect of spiritual life. Guru has to critically analyse disciples. God brothers have to sometimes critically analyse each other and help. These things are there, so but then the line between bad and something which is actually revengeful or envious. Something which is actually not meant for the welfare of another, which is done out of false pride or out of anger. The difference may not appear significant but in actuality the reaction is much different.

It’s like the parent disciplines the child. That's not envious, that's out of desire to help the child. Even sometimes it may not be the appropriate, exact action but the intent if it’s proper that is of course important. Even the child in the long run will see that the intent was genuine. But if the intent is just out of anger or some other frustration then that breaks down the whole relationship. This is like an example. On the spiritual sense if someone does something out of like Indra he didn't have re(gret), he just; Durvāsā muni is far his superior, Durvāsā muni is the mānasa-putra of Lord Brahmā. He is directly a mental son of Brahmā. He wasn't even born by ordinary birth. Brahmā just created him from his mind. So that's a very special kind of personality. Like Nārada muni, Durvāsā, Bhṛgu who are simply come out of Lord Brahmā, they are not born, there is no mother of Bhṛgu. He is just from Brahmā himself. Of course Nārada was already liberated, so he is another transcendental category but from the superficial he is also a son of Brahmā but he just came from Brahmā. He didn't have any mother either in this birth, in this appearance. Durvāsā is not pure devotee but he is a great saint, very powerful.

The Pāṇḍavas knew his power, they were very fearful, they knew that the danger when Duryodhana, he was ordered favour by Durvāsā Muni. When Durvāsā Muni came, he said please go and see the Pāṇḍavas they are in forest, you should go there at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and see them with your disciples and you should take your meal there. So everyone eats meal their lunch at 1 o’clock or 12 o’clock, so 4 o’clock there will be no lunch left. Draupadī she had this very special power, this is a very famous story, that she could produce unlimited food from her pot so long as she didn’t eat. She had to be the last one to eat. Once she ate, it stopped producing for that day until the next sunrise. So, she could feed 50,000 people with her special, I think it's like benediction that every housewife would like to have; no matter how many guests come you have this pot to give away (devotees laugh). So she got from some saint, gave her this blessing, you can have a pot, you can feed as many people you want until you eat, once you eat then it's finished. Because he was a great saint, they did greatest austerities and they build up there spiritual power.

They said something it would happen, they are know as satyavān, whatever they say will happen. Once they say something they can’t take it back though, that’s the danger. If you are a satyavān, whatever you say it happens, then you have to be very careful. Where you say the wrong things. Sometimes these saints, they have this power but they may would become very impatient, when they would see some wrong doing they would sometimes curse the people. Then afterwards the people would beg, please save me and all well I have already done it. Like one time Indra he insulted, anyway that’s a heavy one. So (devotees laugh). there are different histories like that.

So Durvāsā muni he went to see the Pāṇḍavas in the forest, when they were cursed in the forest with all of his disciples. So when the Pāṇḍavas heard they were immediately afraid oh no, how are we going to feed them prasāda, how are we going to, if we don't feed him any, dissatisfied with us he will curse us anything. If we could satisfy he will bless, give us anything, but if we dissatisfy him then he is going to curse us and then we are really finished. So she had already taken from her vessel and she runs to Kṛṣṇa. This is the nature of the devotees, they go to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa please, surrendered to your lotus feet, what should we do now. We are in this, this emergency, and this danger that Durvāsā muni with his 50,000 disciples has come. And they are taking a bath and they going to come any minute and take their lunch, there is no way we can feed 50,000 people and if we don’t feed, he will be impatient and he may curse us. So then what will Kṛṣṇa do, He says alright, you have anything left in your pot, think so, why do you go back and see any morsel of vegetable anything you bring that here. So of course there was one little piece of vegetable, one pea or something, he brought that back, gave it to Kṛṣṇa, He just took it and all of the, Kṛṣṇa, O now I am fully satisfied and by Kṛṣṇa being completely feeling full. Because the sages and all living entities are His part and parcel, all those sage they felt, all of a sudden is it they have eaten a full meal, completely packed up. So they felt if I go to the Pāṇḍavas to eat dinner, we don't carry anything, completely full, how is it happened. They all went away (devotees laugh), not to, in this they were saved by Kṛṣṇa. So we see though how the Pāṇḍavas were so careful, they didn't think that O this Durvāsā muni, who is he, he is just Māyāvādī, something like that you know, he is just some sage. We are great Vaiṣṇavas, we don't have to worry about him. They were really concerned, how some great sages come, we have to deal appropriately.

So that's it is, Indra is also a devotee, but he is a devotee with material desires. There are two types of devotees, sakāma-bhakta and niṣkāma-bhakta. Kāma means desires in this context, sakāma means with desires. Someone who is a devotee of The Lord what he wants, some material benediction from the Lord, in exchange of his service. Most of the people fall in this category. They pray to God, give me wealth, give me, give my children good health, give my country peace, give the, they all.

Problem is that like you know the Germans they were praying for the husbands to come back and for the victory in the war, II world war, but of course all the French were doing same thing, their allies. So you know in that case which side does God take. They are all praying. So Prabhupāda explains that there is this dichotomy, that everybody praying to God, praying to The Supreme Lord for his protection. The thief prays, please allow me to steal from the householder without getting shot or caught and the householder is praying please protect us from the thief. So whose prayer does He hear. The thief is saying I have nothing to eat, my children are dying, I can't get a job, I don't know what I have to do, please let me steal and not get caught. And actually in India the thieves do pray. I don't know in America the thieves pray, but I think (devotees laugh) but I know in India the thieves actually pray to either some demigod or someone to give them protection while they steal and they usually do that stealing in the dark moon night when Kali is more favourable to these type of persons. So the householder, he is also so. Prabhupāda explains that because they both people with desires, they both, so He has to take neutral a position but He gives the advantage to the person who is basically following Him more pious type. He will give the householder some warning that the thief is coming, some intuition.

So many times we read in the papers, suddenly the little lady wakes up and she suspect something. And she is sitting in the living room with her you know the thief suddenly comes through the window. Somehow Kṛṣṇa gives some warning. Prabhupāda explains just like mosquitoes, why do they buzz once around your ears, buzzzzz, (devotees laugh), why do they do that, it’s like a little warning by Kṛṣṇa, there are mosquitoes here, watch out. But the mosquito eats your blood, if he is doesn't take your blood, it's going to die. So you can't deprive the mosquito of the food, at least give you a little warning that you save your skin, save your blood.

Prabhupāda also gives the example that in the jungle in Bengal, there is the Bengal tiger. Bengal tiger is actually some of them are bigger than lions, some of them weigh almost 1 tonne and average weight is between 500-700 kilos. Over 1000-1500 pounds. Some of them get to be 12 feet long and average length is like 8 feet. They are like very powerful. So they can, they can even swim because (aside - what chances does a deer have) at a short distance these tigers are tremendously fast. They are supremely powerful. So this nature gives deer a break, Kṛṣṇa gives the deer a break. There is a little animal that accompanies the tiger, like a little rodent, like a guinea pig and it's so small just goes and little brush and holds the things and it’s too small for the tiger to catch. He always just kind of tells the tiger I don't know maybe eats the droppings or some matter, it's some karma that this animal wherever the tiger goes he is going along. As soon as the tiger is ready to strike, he goes out, *sounds* (devotees laugh). Then the deer knows this animal only with tigers nowhere else. Tiger oh runs off, the tiger he wait’s down means so the scent does not get to the animal, but if the deer or whatever the zebra or whatever it is little spaced out, doesn't listen. It's kind of flash second, just one second, just when the tiger is ready to strike the little guinea pig type animal goes out, and if he moves, he will be saved. But if he just, let me just sip a little more water, that's it. (devotees laugh). So this is the sakāma devotees; they get some little break, but because they have the desire, everyone praying for their food, for their material welfare. So the pious people get little advantage, whether they neglect that or else they become offensive or they become careless they lose it. The difference in the niṣkāma devotees, he doesn't want that praying. Kṛṣṇa may give all facilities to His devotees, to do His service.

Pāṇḍavas, they didn't have any, they were the emperors of the world, they were in top straight for some time. But it was their karma, it was their duty and it was their religion, it was everything for them to be the emperors of the world, it was their hereditary right. Their families were the rulers of the world, they were the right full heirs to the throne, due to different tricks, they were deprived for some years but that was their, but actually they didn't want it for their own sense gratification, it was part of their property you can say. They wanted to use it rather to serve Kṛṣṇa. So they all used to go to Kṛṣṇa and consult Kṛṣṇa and they would, everything they did was for the purpose of satisfying Kṛṣṇa. So in reciprocation, Kṛṣṇa would always protect them. So usually when you see that the niṣkām devotees always dependent upon Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda explains that what is the difference, he said that the normal devotee that has some desires that what is the difference. He said that the normal devotee that has some desire the sakāma, whenever there is some distress, they go to The Lord, please help me. When there is no problem then they forget. Even when the Pāṇḍavas achieved their throne, they requested Kṛṣṇa to come; they gave Him the, all the honors, the rājasūya sacrifice, everything, all respect was given to Kṛṣṇa. Whether in their success or in their distress. But the normal sakāma kind of pious person when they get some wealth they, what do we need God. i got what I need, I got money, I got my position, so they start to become blinded. So then they do their offences, do the bad karmas, activities, sinful activities then they have to take the reactions later. When they got into offence you get banned right often, immediately you can get if it's a bad karma, it may take a while to accumulate before it builds up. It’s a pretty complex situation.

In our preaching though we can see that just like hear the demigods due to their activities the whole universe is suffering but because the devotees are performing the spiritual activities, this is increasing the strength by doing a harināma-saṅkīrtana sacrifice. This increases the strength of the pious people. Just like there is a phenomenon in the world over the past two decades which wasn't there before that there is tremendous consciousness about ecology, about natural living, you know the greens era. They are actually coming a very big political force in America, the new age movement. Now these are mainly impersonalists, they are mainly people,they want some pious result in their life but basically they are demigods. The people that are interested in some kind of mode, mode of goodness thing, natural living, so on. Somewhat you know maybe contaminated with something you know, being in this western society, it's not completely cured, but in the sense that pious people, they are people who are more directed demigod. You can say category. So they want that there shouldn't be war, there should be peace, there should be peace on earth, there shouldn't be you see the ionosphere shouldn't be destroyed by carbo flourides, things like that. It should be, they worry, they are thinking about the welfare of everyone not only themselves, want their own satisfaction no doubt. But they also that world should be a peaceful place like that. This is basically the mood of the demigod mentality.

Where the demons they want their own profit by hook or crook, by any means, they don't really care if there is 100 people, they can get 10,000 which means they have you know 1000 dollars  that's all right. Whatever they can do to get, they will take everything from some other they can, even if it breaks their back. That's what the management tell, where the demigod, they want to do their honest work, they want to get their happiness, but they like to see the whole world can also be happy. So this is two mentalities, Kṛṣṇa explains in great length in the Bhagavad-gītā in the chapters, Divine and Demoniac mentality, this is two type of mentality.

The devotees they are definitely in the demigod category but actually they are in a superficial analysis. Prabhupāda explains actually they are in a transcendental category.

He explains one time riding out to Māyāpur. He was sitting in a car and there was Kṛṣṇa Balarāma outside, there was Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma picture on his windshield. In fact even in Vṛndāvana during his final pastime he would take the same picture and always look at it, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and he said Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. He said in this world there are the forces of good and the forces of evil. There is the demigod and the demoniac forces and they are always competing with each other. Sometimes the demigod prevails, sometimes the demoniac influence prevails and they are, they are at war with each other constantly. The difference is that the demigod, they appeal to Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma for their help, they go to The Supreme Lord for help but the demons they don't believe in God. They don't consider that's a very important thing to have the help of God; so they don't ask for any help generally speaking. So therefore generally speaking the demigods prevail, because they get help from Kṛṣṇa but actually Kṛṣṇa is neutral. He is reciprocating with both the according to their desire. The Demons said there is no God so for him he is not there and the demigod say please help us so he is reciprocating and helping. When Bali Mahārāja although he was the head of demons, he start to worship Kṛṣṇa, he defeated the demigods. He was more determined at that time, he was more rigid about his vow, so when the demigods make offences they may lose that shelter of Kṛṣṇa, then sometimes the demons overcome them. So Prabhupāda is explaining this whole good and evil, this whole battle it's going on. And how Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma are actually neutral, they are transcendental, actually devotees, people mistake that the devotees are on the side of material goodness but actually they are also transcendental to material goodness and material ignorance. They are also on the same spiritual category. Spiritual level is Kṛṣṇa because they are directly serving Kṛṣṇa, they are under Kṛṣṇa's shelter. The devotees they want more, these people should be materially happy, they want that people should actually come up to the spiritual platform and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa. So they are on a special kind of Caitanya's internal agents, special CIA force, confidential associate of The Lord in India they will say special CIA. They have a different, they think they are working for America but they don't realize that we are not working for any government on this planet, we are working for the; Kṛṣṇa, Supreme government.

So we can see that practically history is repeating itself. What's happened millions of years ago in some higher planetary system with Lord Indra and some great sage on that planet is repeating itself within our recorded history. We can so many examples of it. Repeating itself in different ways even amongst the lives of devotees. We can see that parallels. So Prabhupāda wanted us to identify that actually the, there are dedicated devotees, they should identify with Kṛṣṇa. They are the different categories and we should also respect anyone who is trying to serve Kṛṣṇa, who is trying to please Kṛṣṇa that they are very special person. They may have difficulties to overcome but so long as their desire is like that, they are very special category. Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura of course he said gṛhe bā vanete thāke, hā gaurāṇga bo'le ḍāke - whether someone is living in a gṛhastha-āśrama or living in a renounced āśrama, if they with devotion are calling on the name of Lord Caitanya, Ha Gaurāṅga, then as far as I am concerned, a he is more dear to me that my life. Say amāra prāṇa, he is my life, or other words my life is dedicated to serve him.

So the great ācāryas they have their vision, not whose is simply gṛhastha, who is sannyāsī, those are varṇāśrama distinctions, different rules for life, rules for social order, we follow these. This is the, somewhat superficial, we observe these because that's the way of civilized life. But over that, the actual important thing is who is dedicated to serving Kṛṣṇa. In this world if there is no devotees, if these is no one dedicated to simply serving God to please God, to serve Kṛṣṇa to please for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then the world becomes an empty place. It's barren. Everyone is simply looking for their own interest, some are pious, some are, it's a, it's a very dry place but actually what makes the world have any auspiciousness, this is the fact that there is devotees of The Lord, pure devotees on the planet.

When Maharaj Bhāgi, you can't hear another Bhāgi(devotees laugh) but this is the Mahārāja Bhāgi(devotees laugh), same as descendant of the Sagara Mahārāja. When he prayed to mother Ganges to come down, she refused. She said if I come down then all the people want to simply bathe in my water to get rid of their sinful reactions, then they would go out and commit more sinful activities. So all this become overburdened. So I don't want to come to your planet because if I come to your planet I will just be overburdened with sinful reactions. I know what human beings are like. They want to simply dump their sins and go out and do more sins. I don't want to go there. So then how did Bhāgi, Maharaj Bhāgi convinced Mother Ganges. No, but there is also pure devotees on this planet and the pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa will bathe in your water.

Then mother Ganges was so eager, the devotees will came and bathe in me then I will go. I will get association with the devotees of Kṛṣṇa. The devotees are under humility, they don't do anything, I am going give the Ganges, my purification is the caraṇāmṛta of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa 's lotus feet get touched, the causeless ocean is brought to Ganges so it's sacred. The devotees are going for that purpose but mother Ganges she wants association with devotees. The devotees will come then I will go even if other people will dump their sinful reactions on me but if I can, sometime get the association of devotees then it's worth it.

So we are very fortunate here in New Tālavana and in saṅkīrtana we have this community of devotees. Prabhupāda said that he made the international society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness as a society of association of devotees but people could live in association of devotees of Kṛṣṇa, pure devotees. Pure devotees may be at different levels but someone whose purpose is to please Kṛṣṇa, to serve Kṛṣṇa at least that is the bottom line qualification. According to their realization they may be kaniṣṭha, madhyama or uttama whatever. Prabhupāda made this society in order that people could associate with each other, the devotees could have association. This is the instruction of the six gosvāmīs, instruction of the previous ācāryas. bhakta sane vāsa, tāndera caraṇa-sevi, bhakta sane vāsa. My life is dedicated to serve the lotus feet of the six gosvāmīs, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhū, His associates and to live in the association of the Vaiṣṇavas, bhakta sane vāsa. To be able to live in association with devotees this is a special benediction.

The devotees they are, they are always talking about Kṛṣṇa, they are serving Kṛṣṇa, this is the nature of the devotees. They are dedicated to the welfare of every one by serving the root of all existence. So we are really fortunate to have this type of association, the children are very fortunate to have the association of other Kṛṣṇa conscious children. They have the association of so many protective Kṛṣṇa conscious elders. So we should realize how great a mercy Śrīla Prabhupāda as given us and try to protect this and expand it so that we can maintain this type of ideal spiritual environment. People will be able to come and take shelter, be relieved from the very oppressive association of persons who are not in this transcendental consciousness.

Lord Caitanya said to be in association with non-devotees who are simply interested in their own self, sense gratification, it is more painful than anything. He said, "He would rather be put in a cage like a bird cage enlored in the fire than have to live in association with persons who are simply interested in their own sense gratification, who are not devotees, who are not interested in serving Kṛṣṇa”. It is so painful to be in bad association even though they may be material facility, the atmosphere becomes very oppressive after a while. The relationships become very strained, becomes painful, becomes distasteful.

So we are very fortunate, we should see how this 4 billion or 5 billion people, I can't keep track in the world today, out of that how many people are pure devotees, how many people are dedicated or even trying to become pure devotees. Someone may not be promising, unripe banana or unripe mango you keep it, it becomes ripe. Even someone may not be fully pure devotee they may have so many defects, but if desire is like that then in future they will become. So they are considered like unripe, like green banana or green mango, in future just keep them, I was given a green mango in Equador, we couldn't eat it, it was hard, I just kept it on the shelf after 3 days it became ripe, it was very sweet. So even though we may be many green mangoes but if we stay in the fire of Kṛṣṇa consciousness we will become ripened in due course. So we should appreciate how rare this is that people who are devotees how important that association is. If we could realize that then why will anyone would ever like to leave that association of devotees. We can see that it's a type of insanity to leave such a wonderful association.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

Any questions

Question: How much time did you actually spend in the presence of Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Jayapatākā Swami: When are we in his presence. He is with us everyday with his books. All the devotees are in Prabhupāda's presence. We worship him in the temple, we follow his teachings. We are in his presence all the time. We are in his presence now, we are sitting here, we are hearing his teachings. These two types of presence. May be the vapu presence and there is the vāṇī presence. There is the spiritual presence, following his instructions. So this process, this movement is dedicated to remain in 24hrs a day in the presence of Śrīla Prabhupāda. You see in the Ved, in the Vedas you can also find apparent discrepancies because the Vedas are different sections.

There is karma-kāṇḍa, gyāna-kāṇḍa, upāsanā-kāṇḍa. Most of the people in the world are sakāma devotees or they are innocent people and either they are going to become demons or they are going to become devotees. So most the scriptural injunctions are meant for making the people, inducing them to follow the laws of God in his result to get come some material piety, some material prosperity, some material happiness. So people are mainly geared in that direction. So this is basically the Vedas have the section it's called the karma-kāṇḍa, you know if you do charity, if you are kind to others if you do good deeds then as a result you get these type of reaction, you get these good results. So you compare then in jñāna-kāṇḍa is where people are already kind of above that level and they see that beyond this material prosperity actually all material things are temporary, nothing remains forever, so they want to see these eternal aspect. So then they want to realize the self, they want to achieve salvation. So that's basically your jñāna-kāṇḍa. So the lessons of jñāna-kāṇḍa sometimes seem to be in the opposite of the lessons for the karama kāṇḍa. But this point is that they coming from that they actually not contradictions, they are the, they are looking from a totally different perspective. They are meant for a different audience and if you see a relation between them then you can see how if it’s not, they are talking about apples and oranges. They are talking about two different things, so The Bible is primarily dealing with karma-kāṇḍa also, morality, what to do, and a little bit is there about jñāna, salvation. Now upāsanā-kāṇḍa is how to develop love for God. There is a whole section. We have studied the books of upāsanā-kāṇḍa. The, the top most, pure upāsanā-kāṇḍa books, The Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhagvatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Simply concentrating, focussing on developing love for Godhead. We are like in The Bible there is a hint to that. Like the whole testament feared, you do wrong you get punished, if you do good you get bread Jesus said love God. That's the top but then he gives a glimpse of the upāsanā-kāṇḍa but most of the teachings you are dealing with people who are not on that level. So either He entices them with salvation or with some material prosperity. So Jesus' teaching is a little more leaning to the upāsanā-kāṇḍa.

So you go to see some contradiction, apparent contradiction but actually it’s, it’s it’s same presentation simply maybe with different story, some stories are almost exactly identical as stories in the Vedas, simply the names and the places seem to have them changed a little bit in the lay. But the basic story knowers are into the practice, same stories they are in the Vedas in Sanskrit. So this is not really it’s a contradiction unless one has a full understanding. Unless you read all of Prabhupāda's books several times, study them in great depth, then if you go back and you analyse what is upāsanā-kāṇḍa, what is the jñāna-kāṇḍa, what is karma-kāṇḍa and you analyse from the sattva, rajas, tamo-guṇas then you analyse The Bible's teachings then you can see, where it fits in?. You'll find there is nothing in the Bible, that's not somewhere in the Vedas. But either it will be karma, a jñāna or a upāsanā-kāṇḍa division. Between the two there is a different objective. So the teachings, they are slightly different.

Are there any questions on verse today, any other question on the verse. If you offend a vaiṣṇava you lose the protection of Kṛṣṇa. It takes away your immunity that will be like just you know amazing analogy, I am not meaning it’s like there are so many diseases like cancer, I mean I am comparing obviously specifically with age. You are susceptible to any kind of māyā, if you lose Kṛṣṇa 's shelter. Any māyā that it's just like get any type of disease you get all at one time whatever, cancer, tuberculosis, pneuminia everything.

So that's why use that particular type of analogy. As far as protection, how to avoid committing offences. How do you avoid getting disease, besides people you have to wear gloves, you have to be careful, you have to be clean, you have to take precaution and sometime if you get the difference though. If you get this offensive mentality, like age there is no cure, so far, they haven't found edibles. But in the spiritual, there is a cure, unfortunately few people take it, the cure of course is to beg for forgiveness for the offence, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, to try to become purified from that reaction, try to bring humility into devotion.

One can get cured from the spiritual offences, it's not you commit offence, you are finished. No eternal damnation but if one doesn't take the immediate measure, if he doesn't come to his senses you can be delayed for a looong time, like Nitāi Dāsa. He committed great offenses against Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda said he won't get a bonafide spiritual master for 100,000 births. Then all devotees haaa that's phew. Prabhupāda said I am not cursing him, I am reducing the sin. If I follow the śāstra, if you give up a bonafide guru and blaspheme him and so on, you become, you become, you can't get a guru for 10 million births. I have reduced it to 100,000. That's like a 1000% less, 1000 times less.

So depending on the severity you see, of course he has this gravity and this consciousness, all these things play a apart. So we have criticism but it should be constructive, it should be with a desire of correcting mistakes for the welfare of the individual. The normal way of discussing someone's ah... Go directly to the person or if you are subordinate you are not then you go to someone who would be in a position to a help that person. That you see that there some apparent fallen problem or some apparent need for improvement. There is a certain methodology to avoid offences. Like Prabhupād sometimes he wanted to instruct us by illustrating any mistake of his god brothers. I know this he had a certain technique. He wouldn't say that this person is this this this, he would ask in a form of a question that what is he doing for his spiritual master? He has done this, what is he actually doing, he wouldn't take you to the next step and say he is a this or he is a that, he would just ask this as a question. He will make it as a question, you know it’s a technique. This way without actually going to the step of saying, he would ask in the form of a question.

Even one time he was preaching to a, the son of Bhakti Vinod Thakur, who was his level of his guru. So he couldn't directly say you are, you are are good to your god brother, You can say you are wrong, you are wrong but to a superior it’s difficult to do so. So then without speaking to him, he spoke to other people, he said that if someone questions, if someone can do something to serve the mission of the guru and someone doesn't allow that to happen that he didn't do anything himself then isn't that hellish mentality or something. Isn't that materialist mentality, hellish mentality, you can judge for yourself like he was saying person has got hellish mentality (GM and devotees laugh). Prabhupād was careful about you know I don't say that I know the entire science but I could just see that he would be very careful when dealing with superiors. He would be careful how he talk with them but sometime they would do things which will very spiritually off. And he would see that, the, he would present it in a strong way and he was frantically screaming. Is this not the hellish mentality. You didn't anything for Bhakti Vinoda Ṭhākura, the person who can do, you don't allow him to do it. Is this the proper mentality, you know it's like, it's very healthy but what he was actually saying was not offensive. It was such a era where if he said something else, if he say something you know you are a demon, you are a, then it becomes offensive. So he didn't lose control, he always kept it to the spiritual point, kept the proper presentation .

So as a result then the people they would listen to what he said even though he was by some social order he was a subordinate,they would listen. That time Bhakti Vinoda Ṭhākura's son was 100 years old, Prabhupād was just 80. Like this, I have seen many. The real thing is actually to appreciate the devotees, we may make a mistake, we are living together. There is a bengali saying if you got five pots of water, clay pots of water in the back of the bullock cart you are going down the road they are bound to bump into each other (devotees laugh). It's a natural thing, so you know once I felt, Prabhupāda said we should forgive and forget very easily. We should apologize, we make you know later we come to our sense and like this we shouldn't, nothing is bigger than the hour. These type of things can be corrected easily, major things like Ramchandra Kavirāj holding and shouting at Nityānanda Prabhu, that's another category but you should be careful in general and appreciate the great qualities of the Vaiṣṇavas.

Hare Kṛṣṇa (devotees repeat).

Śrīla Ācāryapāda ki Jaya!

Śrīla Ācāryapāda ki Jaya!

Śrīla Ācāryapāda ki Jaya!

Gaur Premānande...

Hari Hari Bol!