19871020 Evening Darśana

The following is an evening darshan given by his Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on October 20th 1987 at New Talavan Farm in Carriere Mississippi.

“śrī-murāri gupta śākhā — premera bhāṇḍāra prabhura hṛdaya drave śuni’ dainya yāṅra”

 Translation: 

Murāri Gupta, the twenty-first branch of the tree of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, was a storehouse of love of Godhead. His great humility and meekness melted the heart of Lord Caitanya. Purport - Śrī Murāri Gupta wrote a book called Śrī Caitanya-carita. He belonged to a vaidya physician family of Śrīhaṭṭa, the paternal home of Lord Caitanya, and later became a resident of Navadvīp. He was among the elders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Lord Caitanya exhibited His Varāha form in the house of Murāri Gupta, as described in the Caitanya-bhāgavata, Madhya-lila, third chapter. When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu exhibited His mahā-prakāśa form, He appeared before Murāri Gupta as Lord Rāmacandra. When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda Prabhu were sitting together in the house of Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura, Murāri Gupta first offered his respects to Lord Caitanya and then to Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. Nityānanda Prabhu, however, was older than Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and therefore Lord Caitanya remarked that Murāri Gupta had violated social etiquette, for he should have first shown respect to Nityānanda Prabhu and then to Him. In this way, by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Murāri Gupta was informed about the position of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, and the next day he offered obeisances first to Lord Nityānanda and then to Lord Caitanya. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave chewed pan, and betel nut, to Murāri Gupta. Once Murāri Gupta offered food to Lord Caitanya that had been cooked with excessive ghee, and the next day the Lord became sick and went to Murāri Gupta for treatment. Lord Caitanya accepted some water from the waterpot of Murāri Gupta, and thus He was cured. The natural remedy for indigestion is to drink a little water, and since Murāri Gupta was a physician, he gave the Lord some drinking water and cured Him.

When Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in the house of Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura in His Caturbhuja mūrti, Murāri Gupta became His carrier in the form of Garuḍa, and in these pastimes of ecstasy the Lord then got up on his back. It was the desire of Murāri Gupta to leave his body before the disappearance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, but the Lord forbade him to do so. This is described in the Caitanya-bhāgavata, Madhya-lila, chapter twenty. When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu one day appeared in ecstasy as the Varāha mūrti, Murāri Gupta offered Him prayers. He was a great devotee of Lord Rāmacandra, and his staunch devotion is vividly described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, fifteenth chapter, verses 137 through 157.

“murāri-guptere prabhu kari’ āliṅgana tāṅra bhakti-niṣṭhā kahena, śune bhakta-gaṇa” - Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu then embraced Murāri Gupta and began to speak about his firm faith in devotional service. This was heard by all the devotees.

“pūrve āmi iṅhāre lobhāila bāra bāra parama madhura, gupta, vrajendra-kumāra” - Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, “Previously I induced Murāri Gupta again and again to be allured by Lord Kṛṣṇa. I said to him, ‘My dear Gupta, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Vrajendra-kumāra, is the supreme sweetness.

“svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa — sarvāṁśī, sarvāśraya viśuddha-nirmala-prema, sarva-rasamaya” - Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin of all incarnations and the source of everything. He is pure transcendental love itself, and He is the reservoir of all pleasure.

“sakala-sadguṇa-vṛnda-ratna-ratnākara vidagdha, catura, dhīra, rasika-śekhara” - Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all transcendental qualities. He is like a mine of gems. He is expert at everything, very intelligent and sober, and He is the summit of all humors.

“madhura-caritra kṛṣṇera madhura-vilāsa cāturya-vaidagdhya kare yāṅra līlā-rasa” - His character is very sweet, and His pastimes are melodious. He is expert in intelligence, and thus He enjoys all His pastimes and mellows.

“sei kṛṣṇa bhaja tumi, hao kṛṣṇāśraya kṛṣṇa vinā anya-upāsanā mane nāhi laya” - I then requested Murāri Gupta, ‘Worship Kṛṣṇa and take shelter of Him. But for His service, nothing appeals to the mind

“ei-mata bāra bāra śuniyā vacana āmāra gaurave kichu phiri’ gela mana” - In this way, he heard from Me again and again. By My influence, his mind was a little converted.

“āmāre kahena, — āmi tomāra kiṅkara tomāra ājñākārī āmi nāhi svatantara” - Murāri Gupta then replied, ‘I am Your servant and Your order-carrier. I have no independent existence.

“eta bali’ ghare gela, cinti’ rātri-kāle raghunātha-tyāga-cintāya ha-ila vikale” - After this, Murāri Gupta went home and spent the whole night thinking how he would he be able to give up the association of Raghunātha, Lord Rāmacandra. Thus, he was overwhelmed.

“kemane chāḍiba raghunāthera caraṇa āji rātrye prabhu mora karāha maraṇa” - Murāri Gupta then began to pray at the lotus feet of Lord Rāmacandra. He prayed that death would come that night because it was not possible for him to give up the service of the lotus feet of Raghunātha.

“ei mata sarva-rātri karena krandana mane soyāsti nāhi, rātri kaila jāgaraṇa” - Thus Murāri Gupta cried the entire night. There was no rest for his mind; therefore, he could not sleep but stayed awake

“prātaḥ-kāle āsi’ mora dharila caraṇa kāndite kāndite kichu kare nivedana” - In the morning Murāri Gupta came to see Me. Catching hold of My feet and crying, he submitted an appeal.

“raghunāthera pāya muñi veciyāchoṅ māthā kāḍhite nā pāri māthā, mane pāi vyathā” - Murāri Gupta said, ‘I have sold my head unto the lotus feet of Raghunātha. I cannot withdraw my head, for that would give me too much pain.

 

 

“śrī-raghunātha-caraṇa chāḍāna nā yāya tava ājñā-bhaṅga haya, ki karoṅ upāya” - It is not possible for me to give up the service of Raghunātha’s lotus feet. At the same time, if I do not do so I shall break Your order. What can I do?

“tāte more ei kṛpā kara, dayāmaya tomāra āge mṛtyu ha-uka, yāuka saṁśaya” - In this way Murāri Gupta appealed to Me, saying, kindly grant me this mercy You are all-merciful, let me die before You so that all my doubts will be finished.

“eta śuni’ āmi baḍa mane sukha pāilun iṅhāre uṭhāñā tabe āliṅgana kailuṅ” - Hearing this, I became very happy. I then raised Murāri Gupta and embraced him.

“sādhu sādhu, gupta, tomāra sudṛḍha bhajana āmāra vacaneha tomāra nā ṭalila mana” - I said to him, ‘All glories to you, Murāri Gupta! Your method of worship is very firmly fixed — so much so that even upon My request your mind did not turn.

“ei-mata sevakera prīti cāhi prabhu-pāya prabhu chāḍāileha, pada chāḍāna nā yāya” - The servitor must have love and affection for the lotus feet of the Lord exactly like this. Even if the Lord wants separation, a devotee cannot abandon the shelter of His lotus feet.

Purport - The word prabhu, or master, indicates that the Lord is to be continuously served by His devotee. The original prabhu is the Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Nonetheless, there are many devotees attached to Lord Rāmacandra, and Murāri Gupta is a vivid example of such unalloyed devotion. He never agreed to give up Lord Rāmacandra’s worship, not even upon Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s request. Such is the chastity of devotional service, as stated in the Antya-līlā of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta (4.46-47):

“sei bhakta dhanya, ye nā chāḍe prabhura caraṇa

sei prabhu dhanya, ye nā chāḍe nija-jana durdaive sevaka yadi yāya anya sthāne

sei ṭhākura dhanya tāre cule dhari’ āne” In a firm relationship with the Lord, the devotee does not give up the Lord’s service under any circumstance. As far as the Lord Himself is concerned, if the devotee chooses to leave, the Lord brings him back again, dragging him by the hair. “sei bhakta dhanya” that devotee is glorious “ye nā chāḍe prabhura caraṇa” he does not give up the Lord’s service under any circumstances.

“ei-mata tomāra niṣṭhā jānibāra tare tomāre āgraha āmi kailuṅ bāre bare” –

Translation:  

‘Just to test your firm faith in your Lord, I requested you again and again to change your worship from Lord Rāmacandra to Kṛṣṇa.’

“sākṣāt hanumān tumi śrī-rāma-kiṅkara tumi kene chāḍibe tāṅra caraṇa-kamala” - In this way, I congratulated Murāri Gupta, saying, ‘Indeed, you are the incarnation of Hanumān. Consequently, you are the eternal servant of Lord Rāmacandra. Why should you give up the worship of Lord Rāmacandra and His lotus feet?

Lord Caitanya was showing the Mahaprakash he always took the role as a devotee but one time induced by Advaita he went into ecstasy of being the Supreme personality of God Head in that ecstasy everyone could see the effulgence coming from him and could see the total spiritual energy, Lord Caitanya revealed to each devotee his swaroop who he was in the previous pass time. Murāri Gupta was called, Prabhupada explained Murāri Gupta looked there instead of Lord Caitanya there was Lord Ramachandra standing with his bow green complexion and Murāri Gupta looked at himself and he saw that he was no longer Murāri Gupta the physician he was a monkey he was Hanuman and when he realized he was Hanuman Lord Caitanya was not non different from Ramachandra he became so overwhelmed he fainted on the spot. When he came conscious Lord Caitanya he was back, so Lord Caitanya was testing his devotion to Lord Ram and Hanuman changed in that way.  Lord Caitanya continued to say –

sei murāri-gupta ei — mora prāṇa sama iṅhāra dainya śuni’ mora phāṭaye jīvana - Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu continued, “I accept this Murāri Gupta as My life and soul. When I hear of his humility, it perturbs My very life.

That way Lord Caitanya he was glorifying his different devotees. Murāri Gupta was a householder, how he lived a house holder Prabhupada explains

“pratigraha nāhi kare, nā laya kāra dhana ātma-vṛtti kari’ kare kuṭumba bharaṇa” - Śrīla Murāri Gupta never accepted charity from friends, nor did he accept money from anyone. He practiced as a physician and maintained his family with his earnings. Purport - It should be noted that a gṛhastha (householder) must not make his livelihood by begging from anyone. Every householder of the higher castes should engage himself in his own occupational duty as a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya, but he should not engage in the service of others, for this is the duty of a śūdra. One should simply accept whatever he earns by his own profession. The engagements of a brāhmaṇa are yajana, yājana, paṭhana, pāṭhana, dāna and pratigraha. A brāhmaṇa should be a worshiper of Viṣṇu, and he should also instruct others how to worship Him. A kṣatriya can become a landholder and earn his livelihood by levying taxes or collecting rent from tenants. A vaiśya can accept agriculture or general trade as an occupational duty. Since Murāri Gupta was born in a physician’s family (vaidya-vaṁśa), he practiced as a physician, and with whatever income he earned he maintained his family. As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, everyone should execute his occupational duty and he should satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead That is the perfection of life. This system is called daivī-varṇāśrama. Murāri Gupta was an ideal gṛhastha, for he was a great devotee of Lord Rāmacandra and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By practicing as a physician, he maintained his family and at the same time satisfied Lord Caitanya to the best of his ability. This is the ideal of householder life.

Except for the Brāhmaṇas no one else is allowed to take charity, the brāhmaṇa takes charity not for himself but to use it in the service of Krsna, otherwise the brāhmaṇa can give classes and accept daksin from his students, the brahamana whatever he receives he will give the surplus away in charity, so the brahamana always remains very simple so it is more glorious for a brāhmaṇa to pick up the grains that are left in the field after the farmer has harvested and accepted them. because   Even by picking grains in the field in the bible there were people who used to do that. pick grains In India I saw generally very poor people pick grains, when you harvest you take everything but a few wheat’s and rice’s you know a few they don’t make it and so they go with the basket and after you harvest everything, they will pick up here and there stary grains and fill up the basket after a couple of hours that will be enough to feed for a day or two.

So, the Bhāgavatam says it is better for a Brahamana to do that and to be an employee because he can remain to be intellectual, spiritual independence because if he becomes just a servant of someone then by being a material employee you lose your independence.

So the Brahamana’s materially they were very simple and were totally a different culture status, economically they were very simple in their life style of course some them they who were very great teachers they would get many students they would may be relatively better off but they wouldn’t hoard like a Vaiśya or business men

they would use what they needed and then they would offer and give out in charity so many times they would be having a big temple and the king would give them some land and the land would be used for maintaining the deity worship these are called devadattas the land was dedicated to the deity, and the deity was the legal owner and the brāhmaṇa acted as a trustee on behalf of the deity or sevait.

During British rule there were many some cases they were instituted since the owner of the land was a deity, the cases were like Rādhā Madana Mohan v/s so that time even some of those cases were appealed up to the house of the Lords in England and they also substantiated that the deity is a judicial person under law should be treated as a minor is treated in terms of the law that he is the rightful owner, but since he is not acting for himself the like a minor cannot go further of the guardian, so where will the guardian, the deity and seviat, the trustee he is the person who can sign on behalf, institute on behalf but he cannot alienate the property of the deity or take it as his own this is as much as the trustee shouldn’t take the property of the minor because he is a minor then he would be legally liable all of these things have been confirmed even by English law. I was thinking that in the future may be we can have such a program even in America putting a land in the name of a deity since it was accepted by English law some of the lawyers it would be an interesting test case, weather it would be challenged by American law, since there is a freedom of religion this is accepted not even by an Indian but also English law the idea being is now days you can sell you can take away a church, no you can’t take away an individual’s private home if he declares bankruptcy he is allowed the place to stay, so if the deity is the owner then even if someone at least he cannot take away his house can’t throw the deity on the street.

So, the brahmans they would have land they would put the land in the name of deity and their children would also become the elder son will become the sevait or the whole family will become the sevait of the deity and they will organize the sevā pūjā or the worship in this way the brāhmaṇa would act. So, because they have deities and they are collecting for the deities they could beg, better for a brāhmaṇa then to do other kind of activity he would have begged. In some cases, the brāhmaṇa could act as a Kshatriya or a Vaishya that is not recommended that a Brāhmaṇa should act as a Shudra. In the modern world more or less everybody is trained to be a śūdra only a very few people are independent, in any case Murāri Gupta he was a physician so any ways he did his occupation of being a physician he would get some fees from the people he was treating, he would maintain his family and rest of the time he would worship Lord Ramachandra, for serving Lord Caitanya this way he was completely Krsna Conscious.

“cikitsā karena yāre ha-iyā sadaya deha-roga bhāva-roga, — dui tāra kṣaya” - As Murāri Gupta treated his patients, by his mercy both their bodily and spiritual diseases subsided. Purport - Murāri Gupta could treat both bodily and spiritual disease because he was a physician by profession and a great devotee of the Lord in terms of spiritual advancement. This is an example of service to humanity. Everyone should know that there are two kinds of diseases in human society. One disease, which is called adhyātmika, or material disease, pertains to the body, but the main disease is spiritual. The living entity is eternal, but somehow or other, when in contact with the material energy, he is subjected to the repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. The physicians of the modern day should learn from Murāri Gupta. Although modern philanthropic physicians open gigantic hospitals, there are no hospitals to cure the material disease of the spirit soul.

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has taken up the mission of curing this disease, but people are not very appreciative because they do not know what this disease is. A diseased person needs both proper medicine and a proper diet, and therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement supplies materially stricken people with the medicine of the chanting of the holy name, or the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and the diet of prasādam. There are many hospitals and medical clinics to cure bodily diseases, but there are no such hospitals to cure the material disease of the spirit soul. The centers of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are the only established hospitals that can cure man of birth, death, old age and disease.

You put a sign birth, death, old age and disease hospital approved he will cure you from birth, death, old age and disease. So Murāri  Gupta he was a very important devotee of Lord Caitanya he would cure his patients materially and spiritually, actually one day on Gaura Pūrṇimā, Gaura Pūrṇimā the big initiation ceremony so one time there was a Māyāpur initiation ceremony so I initiated one devotee, many devotees so one of those was particularly serving in Japan then after wards he went down to the Ganges so many devotees may be 100 devotees went to the Ganges to take bath sacred day of Lord Caitanya’s appearance then I heard someone crying in the water help me help me I am drowning so I jumped in and swam out I, my mother had me take a class when I was a child on life saving and it turned out that it was the boy I had initiated in the morning so I brought him in  the cramp or something he said you gave me my life twice in one day, spiritually and but Murāri Gupta he would cure every patient materially and spiritually you can have a whole book on this one devotee, their characteristics, their qualities, we even developed dramas on how Murāri  Gupta would take care of his patients, I know in South America this disciple who was a doctor, a couple and when he would give free food for life in South America then he would set up a table and give people free medical advice so people will line up. He found that the biggest problem was that people were taking too much meat and any other type of problems of course some of them   he would give the prescription or medicine at the same time, he would advise them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take the Kṛṣṇa Conscious diet wherever was applicable and he people would come back telling they felt miraculously better all-around kind of following in the footsteps of Murāri Gupta. It’s not that if someone is a doctor they had to give up a doctor to be a devotee or someone a school teacher they have to give up being a school teacher, but in addition to giving them education or giving them medical treatment they also add a spiritual touch people get sick because of generally irregular habits, uncleanliness, anxiety and over eating just like Lord Caitanya they gave him heavy prasādam or too much ghee so it was more than he could digest he came back the next day said I am sick it was a līlā.

So Murāri Gupta said give him a glass of water to cure him sometimes someone eats too much milk they get lose motion then the cure for that is to take milk in another form, it take it as yoghurt, yogurt is cooling that balances it.

 

So this material world is giving us so many problems birth, death, old age, disease, problem from our mind and body, problem from other living entities, natural calamities the same material energy when it is used in Kṛṣṇa’s service rather than being used in sense gratification is the cure for this problems it requires someone to be sober minded to be able to understand this nature of the material world and when one tries to exploit the material nature, the material nature will become avtar devī one gets more and more entangled whereas if you try to utilize material nature in the service of Kṛṣṇa the Supreme personality of God Head the same material nature becomes a means where by one can be transcendental to these influences. One does not have to give up their occupation but they can use it for promoting Kṛṣṇa Consciousness or at least for maintaining their livelihood and giving the remaining time you see because if someone is self- employed there is some festival which they can adjust if they are just working for a regular job it is very difficult if you want to take day off for Janmastmi they say no we can’t spare you; you are not your own boss you will be tied down.

 

I got fired from my job in Canada when I was working to maintain the temple because I went to Janmastmi it was a blessing in disguise but that Is another story, horrible job at that time there was no book distribution, there was no sankirtan just a very beginning of the movement I made three temples New York, San Francisco, Montreal.  So the fact is there that a devotee is always able to live within the community of the vaiṣṇavas well he is more independent of material, but the scope is there.

 

Someone can be a physician like Murāri Gupta still be a devotee or to do a occupation like that. The occupation didn’t hold back Murāri Gupta because he used his maximum time in the service of Kṛṣṇa.

 

Prabhupāda was self-employed he had his own business but he said his business suffered because he spend so much time in printing books for Bhakti Siddhānta Saraswati Thakur and doing other devotional services so may be that way he didn’t become super wealthy but he could have if he gave his full attention but of course he did important services for his spiritual master and in the end he was able to preach all over the world and bring to us this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement here in the western world.

So sometimes we have to analyse what are the priorities in life and if we follow the footsteps of great devotees like Murāri Gupta and maintain our priority of being Kṛṣṇa Consciousness as the indispensable priority and the other things must go on, need to have enough food to eat, house to live, clothes to wear so on, healthy body as far as the other things one may like to do that come after the first priority of being Kṛṣṇa Conscious.

Jai Murāri Gupta Ke,

 

Caitanya Mahāprabhu ki

 

Any questions?

 

(Question from the audience)

 

Faithlessness well in the material world people are naturally in the state of low faith or no faith and the way to overcome that is by practicing Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, faith builds up by practice you can read, reading doesn’t necessarily produce faith just like you read hydrogen water is made of hydrogen and oxygen H2O you look at it does not look like  hydrogen it does not looks like oxygen what is this, but then in college or high school they give you some hydrogen and they give you some oxygen put together and light a match phoo side of the glass builds up water and then you have faith ahaa its true.

 

Lot of times devotees they want faith to come like that, just come like just come like some magic not very faithful, but faith comes from the practical action applying the knowledge the difference between theory and realization when you realize something you are faithful, some people are faithful just because of hearing something. It’s raining outside people come in wet they say it’s raining you have faith it’s raining I believe him so it’s better to learn you see from higher authority rather than many things it better not to have to learn through the school of hard knocks, school of Māyā, Māyā sukaya devotional service faith builds by applying the spiritual master the representative gives some order, some instructions, some guidelines one tries to apply it, one depends on Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa reciprocates and helps the devotee In different ways or may reveal to the devotee some deficiency sometimes Kṛṣṇa’s help is a devotee is not successful because there are on some  wrong platform or they are some areas that they should improve or some other inexplicable reason so this is like a test of the devotees determination but then by surrendering even under different circumstances a devotee can see how Kṛṣṇa is actually present how he is working.

 

A devotee gets certain realizations by practically applying the process of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness in the association of the devotees so that builds up faith we have lot of PhDs to read all about Indian philosophy they can tell you the different philosophy but then if you ask them in which one do you believe and they don’t believe in any one of them. Because They know everything but they don’t want to develop faith, to develop faith you have to practice by practicing gradually faith builds.

(Question from the audience)

They could do a particular service for Kṛṣṇa, they could make enquiries whether from senior devotees or spiritual master other than that type of activity would be there are many devotees who would learn different, some devotees take up Gurukul teaching they did not know how to do it before they get trained a degree I learned how to be a para engineer, para legal, para other things.

 

In India I did not know how to build construction now I know how to do construction in India, how to do agriculture, how to do lot of things you learn, you can learn so many things, previous system used to be apprenticeship [Not Clear – 00:32:47] then you become a master of something.

 

Nowadays you go for training for years and years and years in college. I talked to a boy who took initiation in Atlanta he is an engineer for Panam Airline he said whatever he uses in his job, working for Panam know for 6 years he covered it in the 1st 18 months of his schooling the rest 5 years of his education he never needed. It came out like that so why did they teach it then just to see how high your brain is or something like that, train your mind discipline.

 

So, the Vedic system with you is more of a little specialized like you learn something you do it sometimes it is not necessary to have a college degree to do something. One may just need to learn that particular something, sometime you may need a degree because of the law just like to be a teacher you need a recognized teacher’s degree but some other cases look at the computer business today the biggest millionaire’s lot of them they became millionaires they didn’t go to college so by the time you graduate they have already made their first million of dollars and now there are several billionaires as far as making the money is concerned. If you don’t have a college education but they are considered you know, so by that time training have lot of preconceived notions about training person has a desire to do something for Kṛṣṇa he has some abilities there is no harm in developing them there is a need then it is reasonable sometimes person can do many things there are things a person can do he does not know about it so something is needed they do it and they learn a new field. You don’t want to get into a long-complicated training process that will take years out from our devotional activities, under normal circumstances unless it is something very important it’s I didn’t say that it is what people in the profession I said if the person knows the profession practice it and still be Kṛṣṇa Conscious. I didn’t say that everyone should go run out for profession that is the thing around, it says that if someone knows the profession, he can practice it and be Kṛṣṇa Conscious.

 

We are also training people on new professions, we have many new professions to be a brāhmaṇa, to be a counsellor, to be a nurse or a physician in the hospital of birth, death, old age and disease these are new position if there is an intensive program and that person can handle and he is doing better devotional service that is also ok but it is recommended to do more chanting, more intense preparation, be in a holy place sometimes it is difficult for people in the west to go out in the holy place in India certainly the ideal place to leave the body. Bhāgavatam says about the deity worship also yes.

 

(Audience discussion)

 

What do you say?

 

Well, it is a question of quality and quantity one should be engaged in devotional service that is for the quality how much service a person can do quantity that may vary between different persons capacity. So, each person will have their capacity so each one should try to work or serve up to their maximum capacity, try to increase your capacity always one should not try to do the bare minimum one should try to do the max maximum

 

(Audience question)

 

You are first asking about devotees, this is about a person who is aspiring to be a devotee that depends on the expertise of the administrators to engage this people and train them, Prabhupad said that it’s better than people trying to do devotional service while they still have some strength. In India its customary that someone when they are children, when they are too old to do anything then they suddenly think that now let me go to the temple and do some service but they can’t even walk or see, they require constant care, so then the Śāstra says that Panchamudram vanam bhajet…..one should dedicate themselves to spiritual life at the age of 50, first 25 years student life, studying, preparation, next 25 years household life, whatever you have to experience materially, you experience and get it out of the system, whatever and then the last from 50 dedicate to spiritual life, we start to concentrate more and the day you come to 75 years old or something its practically we can’t  you don’t have the facility for that, then they have to bring their own nurses and have a special fund, we don’t have the infrastructure, if they come little younger then they don’t get so seen out.

 

Devotees even in the old age they remain their minds are active they are doing service, they don’t age like that, but when you get someone who has already burnt themselves out in material life completely, they come in at the last leg, it’s really difficult, it’s a practical problem, so we have some devotees now making old folks home and things like that, basically if they don’t have, may be in the future we need some government aid or something to take care of such people, special charitable fund, because it’s a charitable thing, like food relief, but if someone is not that old, they are still able to do something, they don’t obstruct people so much in their service I don’t think, they should basically try to ask philosophical questions you are asked to manage from the rear like a back seat driving people think about something practical in a ashram they present as a question and later on they present to Chairman or to the president Jayapatākā Swami.

 

Philosophical point is that we want to engage everyone but there are so many practical circumstances, the shastras say if the person is able to do something they may be a little ineffective in the beginning, there are so many bhaktas they make lot of trouble when they come sometimes, drop a dāl over on somebody’s head or something part of the life you know happens people spill milk then after they learn that it is a mistake they either are not given that service or given other service or they are trained not to make the mistake for the person willing to learn then what is the problem, if a person is stubborn doesn’t wants to learn, doesn’t wants to change his way of his doing because he is older or something they don’t want to learn anything you know then it is difficult. You want to be in the movement you have to be an active part, you have to be willing to learn if a person is willing to learn even if he makes mistakes were patient, we will train him.

Hare Kṛṣṇa.

The actual process of devotional service was taught by Rūpa Goswami so also though Sanātana Goswami was senior by age and Rūpa Goswami was spiritually was more pre-eminent he had a blessing of a lot of direct association of Lord Caitanya in the spiritual world he is the ninth gopī Rūpa mañjarī after the eight sakis he is the next there was a lot of different reasons but I don’t know why basically we say Vande Rūpa Sanatanau basically he set the pace in terms of devotional service he was although respectful to his elder brother but he was responsible for the teaching how we should practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness how Rūpa knew this there is a  total harmony they are all together the 6 Goswamis.

Sanātana Goswamis teachings Hari Bhakti Vilās deals with how to perform festivals, how to perform, like a handbook that was helped by Gopal Bhaṭṭa Goswami, Jīva Goswami basically preached the principles taught by Rūpa Goswami that they were disciple in one sense he’s their nephew but he came after they did it so he is like their disciple actually. Raghunāth das didn’t write so many books he was assistant actually he told different things from his note book to Kṛṣṇa das kavirāj so then he wrote down …this is Rūpa Raghunāth.

So, Raghunāth learned by being personal assistant of Lord Caitanya, assistant to Swaroop Damodar, he passed out to Kṛṣṇa das Kavirāj such for us Caitanya Charitamrita is some part of the Literature, the most important. Also, Kṛṣṇa das Kavirāj learnt from Roopa Goswami.

Any other question?

Bhakti Sidhant Saraswati Thankur said that he would not accept an offering from a disciple and offer to Kṛṣṇa if they didn’t chant 64 rounds. He said if they didn’t chant 64 rounds in a day, he considers them fallen, Although I don’t see anybody chant 64 rounds among the gaudia math today but just here and there because I don’t judge any disciple of Bhakti sidhanth of being śiṣya varga, disciple level, but Prabhupad had initially introduced 25 rounds a day, but he saw it was difficult for Devotees in the west so then he opted finally for 16 but that was enough, but along with that he gave a program of intensive preaching in the devotional service.

You see sometimes you get to see like in India some of these different temples have a system where they have a much more low key kind of program in terms of preaching they stress more about talking about Kṛṣṇa and other things, may be in one sense, I don’t know who they are, they might claim this was one of the old system at the time of Bhakti Siddhanth, but I also have my doubts about that, because during that time Bhakti Siddhanth he was doing such dynamic Preaching, he was the first one to have a motor vehicle, he had 2 motor launches, 2 yatches going up and down the Ganges preaching , he had horses, he had everything, I mean he had 50000 people around in possessions, 64  temples , I don’t think there was any question Bhakti Siddhanth didn’t have any intensive preaching program, but everyone get up early and chanted 64 rounds.

But Śrīla Prabhupad he said if you chant 16 rounds and engage 24 hours a day in Kṛṣṇa Conscious process and do not bend the four principles, he will achieve Kṛṣṇa Consciousness by his mercy, so we follow that system. He could adjust, but if we think that we can just chant 16 rounds, and not preach and not serve, and not be otherwise engaged in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, how can we be sure that we can be able to claim that same mercy from Prabupad, there is definitely an element of doubt whether or not we can actually expect the same mercy, if we are not following the process given by Prabhupad of going back to God head in one life time.

Even Haridas Thakur said that if one preaches the glories of chanting, that by helping others to advance, that eradicates one’s own ānartas and offences. By preaching you can purify yourself, so the chanting is 100 times more effective, Loud chanting is 100 times more effective than soft chanting. So prabhupad always chanted his 16 rounds loud and then 4 rounds loud and some of them soft, Prabhupad always said always 16 loud, Spoken you should hear, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa,

Why can’t I chant mentally?

You can chant mentally after 16, chant 16 spoken after that if you want. Haridas Thakur used to chant 64 loud and 64 soft and 64 mentally 300,000, so if you are chanting 64 you can follow that system that is fine, you are only chanting 16 rounds, you should chant it loud, you need the extra , when you are chanting you should get the maximum effect from chanting, so I remember one time I said I am gona chant 32 rounds, I am a sanyasi I should chant 32 I was sitting in the Calcutta temple chanting my last of the 32 rounds Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Prabhupad came out and said I was already 10 or 11 o clock.

He said “What are you doing?”

I said I am chanting my 32 rounds you know, he said what you don’t chant more than 16 rounds if you stay here and chant 32 who is going to preach, you chant your 16 rounds and go out and preach I would stay the whole day chanting may be Bhakti Sidhanth changed his standard when he preached I don’t know that exactly, I just once saw his writing once if you don’t chant 64 rounds then I won’t accept your offering maybe he changed it later I don’t  know that I even never  asked Prabhupad was it important to know what was the standard before sometimes now people want to analyse the previous standard the previous system  and try to imitate them but it was a totally different world I don’t personally see that how it implies to us because prabhupāda he knew what was going on knowing that he knew where we are what the world is today where we are spiritually and he told us you do this , this is the standard  you maintain it.

So, I don’t have any question whatever Prabhupāda gave us that is especially suited for us he was the doctor and we were the patient he gave us the diagnosis, he gave us the treatment, he gave us the diet, he gave us the medicine we simply have to take it it works you don’t want to go to see what the previous doctor did for the previous patient how I know it is going to apply to me. Even if we could find out what he had prescribed we don’t know what he had diagnosed there diseases may not be the same what we have like that they were the same kind of people  so therefore we are under the birth, death, old age and disease hospital we read last night Prabhupāda established the birth, death, old age, disease hospital  there is no bona fide hospital that cure birth, death, old age and disease so we have established the international society of Kṛṣṇa Consciences. So, in this hospital we follow the system that the medicines is handed down through A.C Bhakti Vedānta Swami Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Śrīla Prabhupad ki jai!!

Any other Questions?

Ranganath Ji?

(Audience question) certainly there is no need of any immediate change Prabhupāda has given us the basic standard things haven’t changed much that who is qualified to do that, Prabhupāda said he didn’t want any acharyas to be appointed we shouldn’t be the head of the institution that can just change things, he said in the future there might be some kind of so the queen rises to the top and there might be some type of person in the future that comes he indicated that there was anyone immediately  that he foresaw but in the future might be that someone comes up like that but it’s a very big topic and for that Prabhupāda also established the governing body commission to be like a check and balance to see that the basic teachings of Prabhupāda are protected and are not whimsically changed, Everything that you just said is already been covered by Prabhupāda now somebody wants to increase the number of rounds in the future there is scope for them. This is Prabhupāda promise that if you chant 16 rounds and follow the 4 regulative principles. I will take you back to godhead if some other preacher in the future wants to reduce that then it’s a very big question whether that person is also going to have that capacity to guarantee to take you back to godhead.

What are his credentials and rather we see that as the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement preaches and people should be becoming more Kṛṣṇa conscious when things become little more peace full when there is less preaching to do so when the whole world  becomes much more civilized Kṛṣṇa conscious probably the other  way and now you should chant 32 round because now there is less preaching to do or now you should chant 64 round’s  should we reduce it now that’s a big question and doubt Prabhupāda said he would wear karmī clothes.

For instance he would wear a suit and tie if that would promote the preaching he was convinced of that and he would do it certain scopes are given but the question remains is whether he did he didn’t think it would increase the preaching for himself at least but he authorized his disciples and it is supposed to be some kind of sign of  a very serious change that some question of its validity the governing body commission is supposed to analyse the teaching of Prabhupāda and see whether these are  proposed changes that actually would be valid or not, that is what he wanted to be double checked one individual might think something and it would not work out Prabhupāda also made a little change in spiritual life it could create a havoc he was so insistent that one time I would chant

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare

I was chanting in the kīrtan I saw some of the devotees they weren’t chanting, so then I just yelled out BOLO!! Its India bolo means chant Prabhupāda called out and said don’t add any new words to the mantra *crowd laugh’she was very afraid he said the problem with the westerners is that you always want to change one time he made a joke he said that stand on your head clap your feet just do something new just do something new this is your America this is your westerners disease for the sake of doing something new do something if you don’t do something are its going to break its going to break even if that breaks we can fix it just do something new he was afraid that this idea that everything is going on we just got to do something new just for the sake of being new you see.

Prabhupāda was very conservative the Indian civilization in general the Vedic culture doesn’t change that’s the beauty of it, it remains as a constant it’s just like your clothing it’s so simple so everyone is like one sari, dhotī its one cloth very simple not very complicated of course here in the west you need the warmer cloth because its cold but this is the beauty of simplicity of the Vedic culture teaches that if we start to change things what is unnecessary just to show that we are different I have new idea we can get distracted from the real purpose, unnecessary make things complicated so that’s why everything should be backed by Veda praman for the sake of preaching sometimes something can be done but then one has to see whether the actual preaching is there certain things are definitely taboo playing around with mantras changing the teachings, changing the rituals, these are very dangerous the techniques of book distribution or the techniques of getting the people to  engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

There is an area where there is a little scope for creative application in the preaching field because yena tena prakharena Kṛṣṇa mānase …. Bai bringing the people to Kṛṣṇa but the more that kind of gets into our traditional teachings and practices it becomes a bit precarious going on to mean that people of some scope.

Hare Kṛṣṇa.