19801105 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.13.21

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapatāka Swami Mahārāja on November 5, 1980. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Canto 1, Chapter 13, Text 21.

nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale 
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine 

namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe 
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe

namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te 
kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namo namaḥ

he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate 
gopeśa gopīkā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te

tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari 
vṛṣabhānu-sute devī praṇamāmi hari-priye

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca 
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda 
jaya-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa
kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare 
hare rāma hare rāma 
rāma rāma hare hare

Oṁ namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Oṁ namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Oṁ namo bhagavate vasudevaya

nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam 
devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsaṁ tato jayam udīrayet

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim  
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam

Text 21. Translation: Your father, brother, well-wishers and sons are all dead and passed away. You yourself have expended the major portion of your life, your body is now overtaken by invalidity, and you are living in the home of another.

Purport: The King is reminded of his precarious condition, influenced by cruel time, and by his past experience he should have been more intelligent to see what was going to happen to his own life. His father, Vicitravīrya, died long ago, when he and his younger brothers were all little children, and it was due to the care and kindness of Bhīṣmadeva that they were properly brought up. Then again his brother Pāṇḍu died also. Then in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra his one hundred sons and his grandsons all died, along with all other well-wishers like Bhīṣmadeva, Droṇācārya, Karṇa and many other kings and friends. So he had lost all men and money, and now he was living at the mercy of his nephew, whom he had put into troubles of various types. And despite all these reverses, he thought that he would prolong his life more and more. Vidura wanted to point out to Dhṛtarāṣṭra that everyone has to protect himself by his action and the grace of the Lord. One has to execute his duty faithfully, depending for the result on the supreme authority. No friend, no children, no father, no brother, no state and no one else can protect a person who is not protected by the Supreme Lord. One should, therefore, seek the protection of the Supreme Lord, for the human form of life is meant for seeking that protection. Dhṛtarāṣṭra was warned of his precarious conditions more and more by the following words.

Thus end the purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā Swami: So, Vidura, the half-brother of Droṇa… uh, Dhṛtarāṣṭra he is speaking to Dhṛtarāṣṭra without pulling any punches, without holding back the truth. This is necessary for one to preach even if the hearer doesn’t like what he is hearing. The preacher has to tell that which is really going to help him, otherwise what is the use? Today we are plagued in an era where there are countless so called preachers not one of them saying anything which can elevate one’s consciousness. Therefore, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has brought the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu all over the world so that real preaching which will go to the heart can transform the consciousness of the people.

Here we see, Dhṛtarāṣṭra has schemed, and he has killed only his own relatives by his scheming. Although he tried to kill the good nephews, who were devoted to Kṛṣṇa because they were faultless, the reaction instead came back upon him. But he is so heartless, he is so callous that he is living at their expense, he is living in their house,and they are maintaining him, and he tried to kill them.

So, Vidura is not telling this simply to criticize. He is telling this to get him off his seat, to get him to leave and go in the forest, to take up the path of renunciation, to get him to become advanced spiritually.

Yesterday, we were visiting the museum of science. And as we were driving back from the museum, there we saw inside the museum so many ugra-karmas. They had achieved so many so-called wonders of levers, and electricity, and mechanics. But as we were driving away, we saw, we had to stop at the light, and although the light had turned, we could go, but one old man was hunched over, and he was walking very slowly across the road, so we had to wait for him to pass.

They did not have any scientific cure for old age. That would’ve been the real exhibit, “How to cure old age?” Prabhupāda said, “These old people who are bent over, that is due to too much sex.” Someone who is too promiscuous in old age, his back goes out and he cannot stand straight. Sometimes you see them absolutely 90-degree angle, you see. Simply begrudged.

So Dhṛtarāṣṭra he is in old age. And like everyone in old age, they don’t really think about it, as much as they should that, “Now is the last moment. Now is the last chance, when I can fix myself in spiritual life.” Instead, what do they think about? “How is my son? How is my granddaughter? How is the great-granddaughter? How to get the grandson married? How to get the granddaughter married? And son…” So on. So, even to last movement what are they thinking about? They’re simply thinking how to arrange the different family arrangements, the different sex arrangements for the family. This is gṛhamedhī.

So Vidura’s trying to get Dhṛtarāṣṭra off this platform. Instead, he is saying, “Why are you sitting here?” He has to get him angry, so he’ll do something. “Why are you sitting here at the mercy of your grand nephews, of your nephews, when they’re the very enemies that you tried to kill and who killed all of your own sons?” Then later, he gives him the spiritual knowledge. “Now you are in old age. You get out. You focus your mind in meditation. Die honorably, not like an old dog sitting at the mercy of enemies.”

So, this also proves to us that, according to time and place, you may say, “Well, this argument is not completely spiritual.” Yes, it’s getting his sentiment up. Because on the absolute platform, who is the enemy? Who is the friend? We have no enemies. If we understand Kṛṣṇa is our eternal friend, everyone is Kṛṣṇa’s part and parcel, where is the enemy? Who can hurt us? But Dhṛtarāṣṭra is not on that platform.

He tried to kill Kṛṣṇa. He tried to kill Kṛṣṇa’s devotees. Still Vidura is trying to give him mercy. You see, that is the liberalness of a pure devotee. That even one is completely inimical, if he gets a chance, if he gets an opportunity, he’ll also try to deliver. So, this preaching is just according to time, place, and circumstance: kāla, deśa, pātra.

Because Dhṛtarāṣṭra is materially attached, so he is getting his attachment, he is getting his sentiment up. “Why you are wasting your time here? You are disgraced.” Anyway he can get him, out of his attached condition. The people like to think that they’re very well protected. But today is a good time for people to realize that there is no protection. No friend, no father, no brother, no sister, no mother, no nation can protect one from the cruel hand of old age and death. Whether it’s by Russian missiles or whether it’s by accident on the highway: padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. There is danger at every step.

samāśrītā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ 
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ 
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ 
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
(ŚB 10.14.58)

That someone who is actually spiritually advance, he doesn’t take shelter in this material world. He doesn’t take shelter in these material arrangements. Dhṛtarāṣṭra, he was feeling very safe in his material arrangements. He had his nephews. He had a nice room, so he wasn’t worried. But Vidura is saying the same thing, “Get up! You think you’re safe? You are going to die at any moment!”

So, everyone like this, they try to surround himself, “I have apartment. I have house. I have bank balance. I have nation. I have this. I have that.” Are they safe? No.

So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when he came, he wanted to give people, this essence, and so he told people in very straight language. When he landed in Australia they said, “Śrīla Prabhupāda what you think of our Western civilization?” He said, “I think you are leading a dog’s life. You are leading a dog’s life and your United Nation means you are simply barking.” Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was blunt when the people could take it, because people have to see things in a different perceptive.

People drive by and they look at the devotees wearing their dhotī with shaved head and they’re thinking, “What is that?” They walk on the other side of road. Or they… they look astonished, because… What is their standard? They are thinking that, “Oh, if you’re suit and tie, that is civilization.” And then… now if it is a sports shirt, it is civilization. Last year was a mini skirt, now it is another skirt. Whatever the fashion, that’s civilized.

So here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we find that where is the nectar. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya - caitanya means the living force. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya-caritāmṛta means the nectar of the past times of Lord Śrī Caitanya and it means studying the nectar of the living force.

What is nature of the living force? That is to serve. jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa - Our eternal nature is to serve. Serve who? Serve Kṛṣṇa. This devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is meant to develop one’s real service.

In material life everyone is serving. They’re serving these people: their family, their nation, whom they are protect they are expecting protection from, but they don’t get that protection at the ultimate moment. It is like Karṇa. We hear how Karṇa, he was a great warrior. He was a mahā-rathī. Karṇa could single-handedly fight with thousands and thousands of soldiers. But he was cursed. He was cursed that, “You can fight and have supreme ability, but when you need your power most, then you will fail. Then you will lose.”

That is the materialist. He is so great in his… you see, in his battle, but when he really needs the shelter from all of his money, all of his power, all of his accumulations, he fails. And again, he is dragged back down into repeated birth and death.

It is not who makes the good show, but it is who ultimately wins the battle, you see? In Bengal, there is class of people who argue that Rāvaṇa, Rāvaṇa is actually the winner of the Rāmayana. Because Rāvaṇa, he was such a gallant warrior, he stole Rāma’s wife, he had so many soldiers, such a big palace everything at Śrī Laṅkā. Every way, his whole life was, simply he defeated Rāma, only one time was he defeated by Rāma at the end. They try to take a point system and give Rāvaṇa technical victory. But it is not the one time at the end when the heart, when the arrow pierced his heart that was the casting blow, up to then, Rāma was simply accommodating.

In this way, Kṛṣṇa accommodates the demons. But the swell blow at the end is deciding factor. The devotee, he lives to spread the holy name around in living, and dying he lives in sound. This is the prayer of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So, it is not how one gloriously lives, it is how one gloriously dies. If he dies crying, if he dies evacuating, this is not glorious. And let you see, if one dies chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, leaves his body in full devotion, peaceful that is glorious. That is human life.

People are not understanding, they think a person’s greatness is how he is living, you see. No, we’re saying a person’s greatness is not only how he is living, how he is dying, that is the ultimate test. That will show that actually how he lived. Anybody can bluff how great they are, but the ultimate issue that Kṛṣṇa will see. So, this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is to form people into the perfect life and the perfect death, which means eternal life.

And so to do that, you see, in material life people don’t like to talk about death. This is very distasteful, because they don’t know what is death - simply giving up this rotten body and accepting, you see, a new body. Even if you take rebirth you’re getting a new body. What is there to lament? And if they’re actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, then there is no more material body they get a spiritual body.

Kṛṣṇa came down to manifest His pastimes so people can know what it… what is it to have a spiritual body, how we can eternally be engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service. But people forgot what it meant. They misinterpret it. So again, Kṛṣṇa came as Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, simply to show how to worship Kṛṣṇa.

Kṛṣṇa, in the gītā gave His final instruction to surrender to Him, and Him means a spiritual body. He has a spiritual form. So that surrender is eternal. Lord Caitanya, He came, and He showed how one surrenders.

How did He show? He sent all of His followers. First, He did big kīrtana, saṅkīrtana, and He sent His followers out to preach, to induce people to take up the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. Lord Nityānanda and Haridāsa Ṭhākura, they are going door to door, begging the people, “Please take to the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His order is for you to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, worship Kṛṣṇa and learn the teachings of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa.” When the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself is going, even door to door begging the people to take up this message, even He was abused, even he was beaten by Jagāi, Mādhāi, no matter what condition, He continued to go on.

Sometimes He was praised, sometimes He was glorified, sometimes He was uh, neglected, but He had His order; therefore, Lord Nityānanda is described as the original spiritual master, because He is taking the duty of spiritual master by going and preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And Lord Caitanya requested everyone to be a preacher. He requested everyone to cooperate with preaching this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement all over the world.

Of course, when Lord Caitanya appeared, He was in a mood of a devotee. You know that during Lord Caitanya’s presence, He wouldn’t allow any mūrti of Himself to be made. Of course, near the end of His pastimes in Nava… in Navadvīpa, His dear friend, who was Subala in the kṛṣṇa-līlā, Gaurīdāsa Paṇḍita, he couldn’t bear the separation of Lord Caitanya, so he requested that, “You make an exception, and You allow a Deity to be made of You that I can worship, so I can have someone to discuss kṛṣṇa-kathā with. I cannot just be here all alone, and You leave. Then I won’t have any more friend to be with.”

So, Lord Caitanya said, “How can I have Deity made of Me? People will misinterpret.”

And he said, insisted, “I won’t let You go then. You must… one or the other.”

So then, Lord Caitanya agreed. They went back to Navadvīpa. They were in Ambikā Kālnā about thirty miles from Navadvīpa. And they got a big neem tree and they brought it to Ambikā Kālnā and there, they carved two beautiful Deities of, one of Nityānanda and one of Lord Caitanya, full, full-size, seven feet high.

While Lord Caitanya was there, they were making the, uh carver was making exactly the… as far as possible, the exact mūrti. And when they were completed, then Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda They said, “Alright now We’re going.”

And Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita he said, “No. You stay; let Them go.” (laughter) and he indicated to the Deities. “You stay. There’s no difference, so You stay.”

He thought that this time he had outsmarted Lord Caitanya. So, Lord Caitanya said, “Alright I agree.” and He stood, and He became just in the form of the Deities, and the Deities became movable and walked away. (laughter)

Gaurī dāsa said “No, no, no, no! You stay!” (laughter) “Let them go.”

Then again Lord Caitanya, He said, “Alright.” He took again the form of Deity, and the other Deities became Lord Caitanya movable, and started walking away.

“No, no, no! You stay! Let the Deities go.”

Again, Lord Caitanya did the same thing.

Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita said, “Alright. There is no difference.” (laughter)

Because he knew that of course, so many other devotees they also want to see Lord Caitanya. That was the first Deities of Lord Caitanya to be established in this world so far that I know. And Lord Caitanya… I was researching where Lord Nityānanda was married. And so I… in my research, I was reading the… the scriptures uh, about that temple and so.

They were claiming that Lord Nityānanda was married there, which I didn’t accept, because scriptures did not say that He was married there. Actually, He was married somewhere else, śālagrāma. And when I went there, I defeated them, and they accepted that Lord Nityānanda wasn’t married there. It was something that, that they heard passed down, but they had no scriptural evidence. So, when I went to that temple, I was taking darśana of the Deities, very beautiful. And after about two minutes, they closed the door and I said, “Why is this?” And uh, they said, “We are afraid if we keep the door open too long, Lord Caitanya will run off. So, we just wait a second, again open. So, we don’t leave it open more than two or three minutes at a time.”

So, then I referred that why is this custom there? And in the scriptures, it mentions that “These Deities are very active, and there is well-founded reason for why they’re opening and closing the doors.”

Because there was one time when the disciple of Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita, Hṛdayānanda, he was arranging a big festival to celebrate the Vyāsa-pūjā of his spiritual master, when the spiritual master was out, then when Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita came back, he saw that, “What is this?” Externally he became very angry, because he didn’t ask permission. So, a little bit uh, over-extending himself, but inside he was satisfied that actually he had the proper devotional service attitude. But externally he chastised Hṛdayānanda, “What you are doing? You have not taken any permission. There should be no festival. You cancel everything.”

Hṛdayānanda, he had no choice. He cancelled, went, sat by the side at the Ganges, chanting japa, thinking, “How can I serve my spiritual master?” But in the meantime, he told so many people about the festival that all kind of devotees were bringing cart loads of food, grains, fruits, dahi, ciḍā, everything. And, as the cart loads were coming, Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita saw these people coming and then they were hearing there is no festival. He saw, “Alright.” He called Hṛdayānanda, “Let there be a festival, since already they’ve brought the things.”

So then he started a big kīrtana, and all the people who had come, all devotees, hundreds and hundreds of devotees, they were all chanting very enthusiastically by the side of Ganges, kīrtana. So Gaurīdāsa Paṇḍita had gone inside of the āśrama, and he went to the temple, and looked and there he saw that, “Lord Caitanya, Nityānanda, They’re gone! What is this? Where They’ve gone?”

He ran outside, looked and there he saw that midst of Hṛdayānanda, there Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda are dancing with Their arms up, They’re jumping and they shouting, ‘Haribol!’ and chanting, and he saw, and he was amazed. And then he became fearful that, “What if they just go on with the kīrtana and then completely go away? I won’t have anyone.”

So, he picked up his cowherd stick, and he went. Remember he is Subala. He has this friendly mood. He chased after Lord Nityānanda and Lord Caitanya, “What are You doing leaving the temple? Next thing, You’ll run off!” and he chased Them back to the temple. “Get in that temple and don’t go away again!” (laughter) And when… when Lord Caitanya saw, Gaurī dāsa Paṇḍita coming in that mood, he hid in the heart of Hṛdayānanda. So then after that, Hṛdayānanda became known famous. You’ll see in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Hṛdaya-Caitanya, one who has Caitanya in his heart.

So, those Deities are still being worshiped. And… that’s why they only… they just… if you take a darśana, they don’t allow you to take a photograph. They have a touchstone. I would have liked to. Maybe by hook or by cook but uh, officially they won’t allow.

And, they just give about a three-minute darśana and then close the door, wait for few seconds and then open. They said they’re afraid like if some devotee comes, the Lord gets too attracted, He may go off, so they’re afraid. So, Lord Caitanya, His worship, of His Deity, all Deities is not different from His personal worship. And actually, the special mercy of Lord Caitanya is that by His worship, one gets immediately purified from all offences.

Someone who is very attached to sinful activity, he should chant a lot of

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda 
jaya-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

before he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is more important if one is very attached. Sometimes people asked Śrīla Prabhupāda, “Why we don’t just chant Lord Caitanya’s name?” He said, “Because we are following Caitanya. He chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa therefore we also chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don’t jump over, but we follow in the footsteps. But because He chanted, Lord Caitanya, all of the great ācāryas chant, and He chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, all the great ācāryas chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, we also chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But before we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we do āvāhana - we do invitation for Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We chant His holy names to enable us to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa without offences by His mercy.”

So of course, Dhṛtarāṣṭra, at that time he had no Lord Caitanya. So therefore, although he was a not more of an offender than the people today, especially the lead but because he didn’t have Lord Caitanya, he couldn’t engage in devotional service. We should understand how fortunate we are. That because Śrīla Prabhupāda has brought us, because the ācāryas have brought us Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore we are getting the opportunity of actually serving Kṛṣṇa in spite of committing so many offences to Vaiṣṇavas, to the holy name. That is His special mercy, that He forgives one of offences.

Even someone who personally hit Nityānanda: Jagāi Mādhāi, they became completely forgiven by Lord Caitanya. But, once they received this pardon, then they didn’t commit any more aparādha. That is also important. Once one accepts the spiritual master, he should not commit any more offence. That will be very inconsiderate, and that will be very detrimental, both to the spiritual master, and to the disciple.

The spiritual master is the ocean of mercy. He accepts on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, the responsibility to deliver the fallen conditioned soul back to home, back to Godhead. That means that when the disciple commits any offences, engaged in sinful activity, the spiritual master has to suffer for that. The spiritual master being a transparent medium, even if some offence that is sinful life is generally transmitted back to Kṛṣṇa, but when he is negligent by initiating unqualified people and they commit sinful activities, so then Kṛṣṇa gives him a token. Even he is transparent medium, He gives him a token: Sickness, or some kind of misery, so he can understand that everything is not the way it should be.

And if someone who is not a transparent medium, who is not simply being spiritual master on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, but who is being spiritual master for some other motive, then in proportion to his lack of transparency, like a filter, the reactions are not going back to Kṛṣṇa, but they’re getting stuck up, they’re getting jammed up, and that becomes a tremendous burden.

So, in the same way, a preacher who is going out, his duty, he may not be initiating people he meets. But any preacher, his duty is to repeat the message exactly as he heard it. A preacher is also responsible. If he misdirects someone, if he gives an instruction which is not bona fide according to sādhu, śāstra and guru, he is responsible. If a person follows that instruction, and following it gets himself further implicated in material life, then the reaction comes back on that preacher.

The śikṣā-guru, he doesn’t take any permanent responsibility for the people to whom he gives śikṣā. His responsibility is to simply give the message of Kṛṣṇa. There is one initiating guru and there is many śikṣā-gurus. Anyone who purely repeats the message of Kṛṣṇa, he is giving the śikṣā. And someone who always giving purely giving the message of Kṛṣṇa then he is respected as a śikṣā-guru.

So, every preacher, he is giving teachings of Kṛṣṇa. So, in that moment when he is preaching, he has to be careful that he is exactly repeating Kṛṣṇa’s message. Otherwise, if he gives a miss-message and misdirection, he is responsible. Therefore, the preacher, he has to listen very carefully: śravaṇaṁ-kīrtanaṁ. To preach you have to listen. Therefore, Śrīla Prabhupāda said, “To do sankīrtana, my preachers should read. They should attend class, and they should hear carefully.”

Because Vidura was a pure transparent medium, he simply was able to give Dhṛtarāṣṭra the message, even he was materialist, even he was engrossed, even he was lowest person, envious even on his own nephews. By Vidura’s transparency, he gave him the message which saved him from this material situation.

So, on the same way every devotee has to strive for that transparency, strive for that pure devotional mood, simply by hearing, and chanting, and serving without any material motive, without distraction, without rajo and tama, without passion and ignorance contaminating their consciousness. And the more that one becomes transparent, the more he will be able to deliver the most fallen people.

Thank you very much.

Are there any questions? Yes.

Question: Mahārāja, you mentioned how when presenting Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you tell someone the wrong thing, you earn yourself some kind of reaction. Sometimes when distributing literature, we meet Christians who are, you know, strictly Christian, and sometimes I just go along with it and, you know, tell them, just to get a donation (inaudible)

Jayapatāka Swami: I remember that, Śrīla Prabhupāda was on a morning walk, and there was some old lady in the West who came up to him and requested, “Please give me some instruction, father.” and he said, “Have faith in God.” That… her situation, if he would’ve said the… obviously Śrīla Prabhupāda saw that this was the teaching which was most appropriate and capable for that person to assimilate.

There is nothing wrong with the Jesus Christ. It is just that he is only taking one up to a certain level and beyond that he hasn’t given his instructions. A devotee can give an instruction to a person which may not need the complete instruction, but he shouldn’t give a completely misleading instruction, encouraging a person to do something which is completely detrimental.

The person is a fanatic Christian and you’re encouraging him in his religious fervor. It is not reducing him of his spirit, not taking any further away from where he has gone. But if someone is not a fervent Christian, instead of giving him, he is receptive to Kṛṣṇa, instead of getting him fired up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you then take him like back off the left side and send him over to some more karma-kāṇḍa type of religious principles, then that’s not doing him any favor. As far as I understand, if it is record distribution, the basic principle is fund collecting. As far as preaching potential, I think Ādikeśava Mahārāja would have a different program for the future. So, for fundraising of course, sometimes different situation.

Question: (Inaudible)… it’s easier for people to take to evil than to take to the righteous path. With these two paths in mind, would Your Divine Grace like to give me some clarification on what is the philosophy (inaudible) demons and the demoniac?

Jayapatāka Swami: Living entities in this material world are fallen spirit souls who have forgotten the Lord’s lotus feet. So, He is giving them a chance in this material world to:

Number one: get back to Him and

Number two: to satisfy their material desires.

So, some living entities doesn’t want to serve Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa allows them to act. In fact, in Bhagavad-gītā, He says that for someone who acts in a demonic mood, that Kṛṣṇa says, “I satisfy him and he for countless births, he again and again and again, takes birth in the families and the wombs of the demons.”

So Kṛṣṇa, He tells everyone they should surrender to Him. Just like a father tells his grown son that, “You should still stay with us, and don’t go off alone.” But, if the son wants to go out, and go to the brothels, the father, what can he do? He can’t tie him down.

So, Kṛṣṇa’s treating the jīvas as adults. He’s giving them a chance: “You can do what you like, but you should do this.” So, some are good sons, and some are bad sons; some are devotees and some are demons. So, naturally if a… if a bad son start to inflect pain on the good son then the Lord has to step in, the father has to save. But apart from that, if the bad son is doing nonsense, somewhere He is watching, “When you’ll come back?” but He is not interfering, until it creates too much of a disturbance, and then He makes an arrangement so that everything can be properly arranged, so that people can all be good sons, they can all be engaged in devotional service.

So in this way, it is considered that Kṛṣṇa’s liberalism to allow His jīvas, His part and parcel living entity to become misdirected is less merciful than the pure devotee, who goes even to those misdirected souls and requests them, “Why you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa? You don’t see how you are suffering? You come back to Kṛṣṇa and be happy.”

So Kṛṣṇa, He doesn’t have to come here to actually defeat the demons. What He does is He allows two demons to become very powerful, and then the demons in their power, they fight against each other, and then they destroy each other, and then devotees, they don’t have any more trouble with the demons.

Generally speaking, the demons, they are very envious. Especially they became envious of each other. They’re also envious of the devotees, but the devotees are not so presumptuous. They’re non-assuming, so they see the non-devotees are also very proud, so they’re very conspicuous. So, the demons, they fight against each other. That is also Kṛṣṇa’s mercy.

In previous age, Kṛṣṇa would come down to kill the demons, and this age, He came down as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as Harināma, and to kill the demonic mentality of the demon. In this way, He kills the demon, not by taking their life, but by taking their demonic mentality, and killing that, and turning them into devotees.

So, Kṛṣṇa is giving very easy way out to the demons, but how much can He do alone? He needs His devotees. He is actually given the opportunity for His devotees to go out and give Kṛṣṇa. And this will change the demonic mentality of the fallen souls.

Question: You mentioned that because devotees are non-assuming, or they’re not so presumptuous the demons, they don’t stand out as much, but sometimes, seeing that uh, even as devotees, we attract demons to greater and lesser degrees. Is that attraction that the demons are having for such devotees due at all to the consciousness of the devotees?

Jayapatāka Swami: Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was simply preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he attracted the envy of his own father. So when a devotee is actually completely humble, simply preaching without any false ego, even then because demons are there, they’ll want to persecute. This is there in history.

Demons and devotees, they always having a clash. But when Kṛṣṇa wants to kill these demons, He allows another demon to became powerful and they kill off each other. The thing is that if a devotee becomes contaminated with a demoniac attitude and acts very untactfully, getting a person agitated, and then thinks that, “I am a devotee.”

I remember in Māyāpur, there is a gurudeva-līlā, Śrīla Tamāla Kṛṣṇa had a wonderful līlā. There was a bunch of rowdies. We were distributing prasāda to about 4,000 people. And there were a bunch of, actually there was so many people during the festival. The whole place was packed, maybe 30,000 people all over the ground, and about 4,000 sitting down in a field, we giving them the prasāda.

And some rowdies came into the kitchen and tried to pollute the prasāda and different, different things. So one of the cooks picked up the spoon uh, and he discouraged the rowdies from entering further into the kitchen and they went off. But there was one devotee who later on went to New Vrindavan was head of the kṣatriya thing, who uh…

That point, the people probably could’ve gone. But they were pretty rowdy. He wasn’t really wrong in what he did. I am not saying this in a criticism for what he did, but just to illustrate a point. He picked up a bamboo about twenty feet long. He started to swinging, it around his head, and at this point, of course, it looked more like Kurukṣetra than a prasāda distribution field.

The people started running in all directions. 1972-3 something like that. And he chased the people off the property. Then they started throwing brick bags through our windows from the road up to the go-down. So, this devotee, at that point he hid somewhere because they were, they got enforcement to get him for picking up the bamboo and swinging it at them.

So, Śrīla Prabhupāda heard about the difficulty, and he told Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami that he should go and settle up the whole thing. So, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa took about twenty devotees and they started chanting kīrtana, and they went from the building up to the… to the land, and they started to chant kīrtana. They sat down on the road junction right at the front gate. There was no gate at that time. This was before there was any gate, and they just started to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and some of the rowdies wanted to throw bricks on them, or do something, and the people, the public stopped them, and said, “No they’re chanting. You can’t do anything.”

Things were becoming quiet, but then all of a sudden that devotee who had picked up bamboo, he walked in and was sitting in the kīrtana party, and they said, “There he is!” (laughter) They weren’t expecting that suddenly he became you know… like you know, a saint. They were remembering that this was the guy that just about smashed their head with a bamboo. They picked him up and started to work him over, and it got pretty serious. He had to be dragged off and hidden somewhere. So the example I’m trying to give of course is that, you come out very heavy, but at the same time, you want the shelter from Kṛṣṇa as a devotee.

Of course, actually his heaviness wasn’t bad. He just shouldn’t immediately gone with the kīrtana party and tried, expect that they’re going to immediately have transcendental vision. But actually, Gurudeva was very brave. He was sitting there chanting and took a lot of nerve to do that in the middle of about 200 rioting people.

Sometimes you see devotees, they act uh, inconsiderate of a person, yet they feel, “I’m a devotee.” He is this kind of person reciprocates, and does something back, then they become very indignant. So, we should see that actually we are not taking out our passion or our material thing out onto the other person, and then keeping the pride that, “I am a devotee.” when he reciprocates.

Even then, they’ll be demons. It’s a fact. If one is very considerate, simply preaching who will persecute a devotee, but that is another thing. That even happened to Prahlāda Mahārāja. That happens to all great devotees. Kṛṣṇa, He protects such devotees, and when a devotee doesn’t get protected, when a devotee gets what appears to be lack of protection, generally speaking it can be traced to the fact he was insensitive to what was the actually etiquette at that movement.

And then there is other way to see that the devotee is preaching, and some demon comes, and he is protected. I remember so many saṅkīrtana stories how a devotee was preaching, and some demon comes up and just at the movement it looks like he is going to get his head smashed in, something happens. I remember that I told this story at Ratha-yātrā last year, how this one demon came up, tried to excite a whole riot and out of nowhere, a bull came, whoosh, picked him up right off ground. Dharma personified. (laughter)

And I remember in Los Angeles, and so many times in the West, demons would come, and devotees would take care of them before the person that they were persecuting could do anything… could be hurt. So, of course the devotees also use self-defense. They use whatever is necessary in Kṛṣṇa’s service. But the preacher, if he is actually just purely trying to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness he gets protected. But if he gets a little into the modes, and starts to over-react, lose his cool, whatever you like to call it, then the reaction may be more, and you can’t blame that on Kṛṣṇa. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham - according to one’s surrender Kṛṣṇa’s going to give shelter, in that proportion.