19860722 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.6.18

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on July 22, 1986 in Bangalore, India. The class begins with a reading from the Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 2, Chapter 6, Verse 18.

Jayapatākā Svāmī: (Reads and Leads the Translation with devotees repeat)

so ’mṛtasyābhayasyeśo
martyam annaṁ yad atyagāt
mahimaiṣa tato brahman
puruṣasya duratyayaḥ
[SB 2.6.18]

Translation by His Divine Grace, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the controller of immortality and fearlessness, and He is transcendental to death and the fruitive actions of the material world. O Nārada, O brāhmaṇa, it is therefore difficult to measure the glories of the Supreme Person.

Purport: The glories of the Lord, in the transcendental seventy-five percent of the Lord’s internal potency, are stated in the Padma Purāṇa (Uttara-khaṇḍa). It is said there that those planets in the spiritual sky, which comprises the seventy-five-percent expansion of the internal potency of the Lord, are far, far greater than those planets in the total universes composed of the external potency of the Lord. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the total universes in the external potency of the Lord are compared to a bucketful of mustard seeds. One mustard seed is calculated to be a universe itself. In one of the universes, in which we are now living, the number of planets cannot be counted by human energy, and so how can we think of the sum total in all the universes, which are compared to a bucketful of mustard seeds? And the planets in the spiritual sky are at least three times the number of those in the material sky. Such planets, being spiritual, are in fact transcendental to the material modes; therefore they are constituted in the mode of unalloyed goodness only. The conception of spiritual bliss (brahmānanda) is fully present in those planets. Each of them is eternal, indestructible and free from all kinds of limitations experienced in the material world. Each of them is self-illuminating and more powerfully dazzling than (if we can imagine) the total sunshine of millions of mundane suns. The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from birth, death, old age and diseases and have full knowledge of everything; they are all godly and free from all sorts of material hankerings. They have nothing to do there except to render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa, who is the predominating Deity of such Vaikuṇṭha planets. Those liberated souls are engaged incessantly in singing songs mentioned in the Sāma Veda (vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāmagāḥ). All of them are personifications of the five Upaniṣads. Tripād-vibhūti, or the seventy-five percent known as the internal potency of the Lord, is to be understood as the kingdom of God far beyond the material sky; and when we speak of pāda-vibhūti, or the twenty-five percent comprising His external energy, we should understand that this refers to the sphere of the material world. It is also said in the Padma Purāṇa that the kingdom of tripād-vibhūti is transcendental, whereas the pāda-vibhūti is mundane; tripād-vibhūti is eternal, whereas the pāda-vibhūti is transient. The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful. In other words, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. That eternal land is full of transcendental enjoyment and full of beauty and bliss. This very fact is also corroborated in this verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and the transcendental nature is described as amṛta. As described in the Vedas, utāmṛtatvasyeśānaḥ: the Supreme Lord is the Lord of immortality, or in other words, the Lord is immortal, and because He is the Lord of immortality He can award immortality to His devotees. In the Bhagavad-gītā (8.16) the Lord also assures that whoever may go to His abode of immortality shall never return to this mortal land of threefold miseries. The Lord is not like the mundane lord. The mundane master or lord never enjoys equally with his subordinates, nor is a mundane lord immortal, nor can he award immortality to his subordinate. The Supreme Lord, who is the leader of all living entities, can award all the qualities of His personality unto His devotees, including immortality and spiritual bliss. In the material world there is always anxiety or fearfulness in the hearts of all living entities, but the Lord, being Himself the supreme fearless, also awards the same quality of fearlessness to His pure devotees. Mundane existence is itself a kind of fear because in all mundane bodies the effects of birth, death, old age and disease always keep a living being compact in fear. In the mundane world, there is always the influence of time, which changes things from one stage to another, and the living entity, originally being avikāra, or unchangeable, suffers a great deal on account of changes due to the influence of time. The changing effects of eternal time are conspicuously absent in the immortal kingdom of God, which should therefore be understood to have no influence of time and therefore no fear whatsoever. In the material world, so-called happiness is the result of one’s own work. One can become a rich man by dint of one’s own hard labor, and there are always fear and doubts as to the duration of such acquired happiness. But in the kingdom of God, no one has to endeavor to attain a standard of happiness. Happiness is the nature of the spirit, as stated in the Vedānta-sūtras: ānandamayo ’bhyāsāt — the spirit is by nature full of happiness. Happiness in spiritual nature always increases in volume with a new phase of appreciation; there is no question of decreasing the bliss. Such unalloyed spiritual bliss is nowhere to be found within the orbit of the material universe, including the Janaloka planets or, for that matter, the Maharloka or Satyaloka planets, because even Lord Brahmā is subject to the laws of fruitive actions and the law of birth and death. It is therefore stated here: duratyayaḥ, or, in other words, spiritual happiness in the eternal kingdom of God cannot be imagined even by the great brahmacārīs or sannyāsīs who are eligible to be promoted to the planets beyond the region of heaven. Or, the greatness of the Supreme Lord is so great that it cannot be imagined even by the great brahmacārīs or sannyāsīs, but such happiness is factually attained by the unalloyed devotees of the Lord, by His divine grace.

Translation: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the controller of immortality and fearlessness, and He is transcendental to death and the fruitive actions of the material world. O Nārada, O brāhmaṇa, it is therefore difficult to measure the glories of the Supreme Person.

Jayapataka Swami: Here Lord Brahma, the founder of our disciplic succession, who is also, you can say, the founder of the creation of this universe, he explained some of the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

In the previous verses, he was talking to Lord Siva stating that, stating that he or Lord Siva, what to speak of Indra and other demigods are not able to perfectly understand the limits of the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, what to speak of others?

Here, similarly, He explains it’s difficult to measure the glories of the Supreme Person. Why is it difficult to measure the glories of the Supreme Person? He also explains. It’s not that as in some religious traditions, they say you simply have blind faith. If you say why do you believe in this particular thing? They say, “You just have blind faith. You don’t ask any questions”. It’s not like that. That he is saying, “Well! there is a God, we don’t know what He looks like, we don’t know what He does, we don’t know what He is, we don’t know anything about Him except He has a son and you have to surrender to Him and that’s it”. It’s not like that.

He is explaining, “The Lord is illuminated, self-illuminated; The Lord is immortal, that He is the controller of fearlessness, that He is transcendental to death, that He is above the laws of karma.” And so many other descriptions are given in the Vedas of course, even explaining about the Lord’s abode, that the spiritual planets are three-fourth or tripad vibhuti, three-fourth or 75% of His total energy, and the material world is ekpad vibhuti or 25%. There are many universes ah… in the material world as there are mustard seeds in a bucket. It’s quite a few universes, but each planet in the spiritual world is bigger than one universe in the material world. And there are countless universes, at least three times as many ah… planets, three times as many ua… how many…. Tetris koti devata… 33 million demigods in ah… in this ah… universe, and each demigod has his own planet. So, then, how many planets? At least there is 33 million… 3300 million, and so there is many, at least three times as many times as many universes as there are in the material world, and each planet in the spiritual sky is also as big as one universe. So in this way it is practically inconceivable.

But at times in charge of the entire spiritual universe there is one Supreme Lord, but of course, He appears in each planet in a different form- Narsingha, Vamana, Varaha, Matsya, Kurma and so on. So, this way we can understand that the glory of the Lord, as explained in the Upanishad, Puranas is unlimited. So how to understand this ah… this glory of the Lord?

It’s possible to understand the glory of the Lord if we take up the process given by the Lord. He explained that if you want to know Me then you follow the process of devotional service. He explained, bhaktya mam abhijanati… be My devotee! No one else can understand Me. When He revealed His mystery to Arjuna in the Gita, He told, bhakto sakhā ceti rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam, I am revealing this secret to you because you are My Sakha, you are My friend and you are My bhakta. If we want to know who is Krishna, we should become His friend, become His devotee, you see.

Ninth chapter of Bhagavad gita Krishna says, “That those who are thinking of Him, surrendering to Him, who are taking shelter of Him, worshipping Him, they are the most ah… united with Him - yuktvaivam. So in this way it’s not difficult to unite with Krishna through the process of bhakti. That’s why Krishna explains that of all yogis, He considers the bhakti yogi to be the most, of the topmost.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yukta-tamo mataḥ
[BG 6.47]

On the other hand, Prabhupada explains it that the great sannyasis, brahmacharis, yogis ah… of the jnana marga or yoga marga, ashtanga marga school, for them it is very difficult to understand Krishna.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
[BG 7.19]

After many many births, even a great jnani, a great pandit, sannyasi, brahmachari, they are not able to understand the real position of the Lord. It’s very rare to find one who knows the transcendental position of Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In other words, therefore, it’s a very great opportunity for everyone to take up this devotional service to Krishna. By taking up the devotional service to Krishna, then you can understand this greatness of the Supreme Lord.

[Jay Krishna Balaram! Devotees: Jay! Jayapataka Swami: Jaya Nitai Gaur]

This was the special gift of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Different avatars give different benedictions, but the special benediction of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is that He gave the benediction of bhakti. Krishna, He gives benediction of moksha or swargavas very easy, it’s not any great matter for Him to give.

Although Hiranyakashipu, he did a great tapasya, he asked Brahma to give the benediction of immortality, but Brahma said, “I cannot give it. How can I give you what I myself don’t possess?” If you go to somebody who is driving rickshaw, scooter rickshaw, he is making thousand rupees a month and you press him, “You give a one lakh rupees donation”, where he will get it? “ So you must pay?” “I don’t have it!” “No, but I don’t care, but you have to give.” “I don’t have, how can I give?” “You must pay!” Or the income tax officer, if they come, you show your accounts, and he is saying that, “You show you are making one lakh of rupees of profit.” They say, “No, you made one crore profit, you have to pay tax in one crore.” “I don’t have!” “No but that’s my finding.” “Where I will give?” “So now the government has said that you accept the income tax submission.” So that’s the thing.

We may pray, sometimes people think all the demigods are the same. So they pray to Durga, “Give me immortality”, but how she can give? Or they pray to Siva, “Give me this”, but even Lord Siva explains that, Visnu is the giver of Mukunda… mukti. You can pray to different demigods, but you cannot get everything from them. You want to get these certain things; you have to go to Visnu. Of course, you can get anything from Visnu, but these things you can only get from Him. If you want to get a parking pass at the Vidhan sabha, you can park your car there, you can get it from the chief minister, but you don’t have to go to him to get a parking pass for that, you can also get that from the head of the P.W.D and so many other junior officer, if you have some business there. So why go bother. So that’s why the Vedas have told us, “Alright, you want to get a wife, you worship to Uma; you want a husband, you worship Siva; you want siddhi you worship Ganesh, you want this you worship this one, because they can give that. But then people became bewildered, they think that all the Gods are the same, they don’t understand what is the difference? When the world, when universe gets destroyed then all this positions are vacated, and they return again back inside the body of the Lord, to come out again yet again in the new creation.

It’s actually, this why, Narada Muni after receiving these instructions from Lord Brahma he personally went and told Vyasa Deva that, “The one thing you missed doing is you just glorify Krishna, glorify the Supreme Person. You have told all about every conceivable path, you have given a totally objective viewpoint, but it is so vast that people they are not able to see the whole objectivity of it. Because you failed to give the central point that if there is one Supreme absolute truth, and that’s the ultimate ah summum bonum, that’s the param brahma, so people become bewildered.”

Actually, the Vedas are so vast you pick up one Veda and you read; each Veda says that that particular demigod is supreme so that people get bewildered. In fact, some commentators, they start to accuse the Vedas, because they don’t know what is the philosophy, that they are just showing from a different viewpoint. Just like if somebody from the viewpoint of the Bangalore municipality, he can start praising the mayor, “You are the topmost citizen, you are the best of the bunch, you are the controller of the city council, you can give all the permits, you can give us everything, you are the supreme.” Supreme what? Supreme in Bangalore.

If someone else is saying to the chief minister, “You are the head of the ministers, you have all the portfolios, you are the greatest, you are the topmost, you are the original of all the ministers in this government.” (laughter) This government, but what about the previous government? Now he is even out of the party, so. (laughter) This is the point that this according to the perspective; not that the Vedas are wrong, but they are giving certain perspective on certain things. But even within that, for instance if you read the glories of Durga, it says that she is, that in the Chandi of the Markendaya Upanishad, there it mentions that she is actually the Vaishnavi, she is the Narayani, she is the sakti of [Vaishnav] Visnu, she is the sakti of Narayan. But that, the Durga worshippers they skim over quick. I don’t know how they understand that. But they go over that very quickly.

They should know that there is various saktis of Visnu. parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate - So the Svetasvatara Upanishad explains that there are external saktis and internal saktis. So in this verse… previous verse we are understanding that the Lord has got internal sakti and external sakti. So external sakti is of ah… lesser magnitude than the internal sakti. Nonetheless the sakti exists. Just like in the government the budget outlay may be different for police department or for welfare or for commerce or for different department, but that doesn’t mean that one ah… department doesn’t exist because it gets a lesser budget. Still it exists, it has some functions, you cannot also do without it. Even if the budget is less that doesn’t mean that that function is ah… dispensable. Simply the budget is ah… different, that’s all.

So in the similar way external energy budget sakti one-fourth, internal energy budget three-fourth, but both has got their values, so they have to be explained. So this has been explained that bahiranga sakti, antaranga sakti . The bahiranga sakti or the material world is also an eternal sakti. That material energy is eternal, that’s why even modern physicist have understood that there is a conservation of energy, energy is always existing, you may burn it, you may melt it, you may change its structure, but some total energy remains the same. Thus the Vedas say that this energy is eternal. So there are four eternal aspects and there is one temporary aspect, you see. There is the ah…there is the living entity or the internal sakti of which the living entity is a part, there is the ah… [Aside: Not Audible] So this ah…. Lord’s internal energy, then there is time… external energy, time and then karma. So the four are eternal, but because the time is over, the time is also eternal, but because the time is over the karmas, or material temporary activities, those activities are temporary.

For instance, you construct this wooden case here. This case is not eternal. After some time, ah… termites, different things are going to eat it and it’s going to change. This was made by some material activity; you can make this book but now we are trying to preserve Prabhupada’s books. They say that because of the acid in the paper, after some time the books starts to turn brown, decayed and so on. So now they say, put things in a microfilm that lasts for a longer period of time. But whatever you do, material thing has a beginning, has an end. Nothing is permanent. Because time factor has its toll on all material things. But Krishna, the material and spiritual energy, even ah… time itself, these are internal factors. But the spiritual energy is above time; the material energy is controlled, it’s affected, the material activities are affected by the time element.

So although the material energy is eternal, its shape, its function, is controlled by time. But the spiritual energy is above time. Therefore, in the material… in the spiritual world there is no ah… death, there is no old age, there is no… none of the problems that come from passing of time. Those problems only exist here in the material world. Because between the material energy and the material activities, the time element is separated. So, these things are very difficult to understand when you are in the material world.

Whether you are a great sannyasi or pandit or even a demigod, when you are in the material world it’s hard to understand what is beyond the material world, especially if a person is simply speculating. Just like upstairs if we hear some noise - Prabhupada gave this example, there may be some, [tapping sound] some kind of tapping noise, and we are sitting here, and we can all take a poll, what is that noise? Someone is saying that “the one of the, some life member’s daughter is practicing bharatanatyam”, and someone can say, “no, someone is washing his clothes.” Someone can say, “no, someone is…the mistri is repairing.” Someone else can say, “no, that some gunda-sunda plays, they came upstairs and they are playing dice, dice is hitting.” Like this you can go on speculating. No one can say what… who is saying the right thing. When you go upstairs you find that the ah… some crow is just ah… hitting something. (laugh). So unless somebody goes up and sees what’s happening and comes down, so that way Narada Muni, he is the messenger from Narayana, he goes to the spiritual world, he comes down, he gets instructions from Brahma but he got such a blessing that he can himself go to the spiritual world. And not only that Krishna Himself comes down to give the instruction.

So, if you want to know, what is going on outside of the universe, what is the universe, how you know within the universe. You need to know only if you get to know the objective broad viewpoint. Who has that viewpoint but Krishna? You may be a great sannyasi in the material world but that doesn’t give you the vision what’s outside the material world, you see. That vision has to come only by the blessing of the Lord, and that blessing is given not simply by vairagya but is given to those who are devotees. That’s why Durvasa muni, although he was a great ah… he was a manasaputra of Brahma, he was more powerful than any demigod, even demigods were afraid of his curses, but he was defeated by the simple grihastha householder devotee, Maharaj Ambarish, who was a complete ah… fervent practitioner of bhakti yoga. He had to fall at his feet and beg for forgiveness and say that “I didn’t understand the power of the bhaktas.”

Generally, the sannyasis don’t understand the power of bhakti. That’s why when Dhruva Maharaj, when he was going back to the spiritual world, then in other higher planets maharloka, janaloka they are watching him go by, and they said that they could not go by their mystic power; how he was going to such a higher level? This indicates that not only are the levels of the universe simply a material level, like now they are sending these voyagers and other types of ah… rocket ships at the expense of billions and billions of dollars to go out in the outer space so that 30,000 years from now they will be sending back some information from the next ah… galaxy, so that ah… all the scientist who are still alive then, they can get the information. So, this type of programs, are going but we find that ah… in Vedas indications of going higher is more.... it’s more than just ah… ah… level of space, but actually there is higher levels in consciousness, higher level in ah… various ah… dimensions, whereby one is able to go from one planet to the next planet or out of the entire material universe, out of the sight of these demigods, so they are watching and they could even out of sight. He went to beyond the level where they were able to understand.

Just like a small five-year-old child is able to understand reality to a certain degree. He knows this is my mother, this is my father, this is my uncle, this is my aunty, this is my brother, my sister, my dog, this is ah… the house I live in, and they may know the neighbourhood but they may not know the… Bangalore. Bangalore is beyond their total understanding, entire geography of Bangalore. Gradually as they grow up they may know Bangalore, they may know this India, and so many states in India, and then they can understand that there is a world we live in, and then the world has so many ah… countries in it, and thus each country has got different languages and customs and so on. So like this according to a person’s not only age, but the development of their vision and their knowledge they are able to get a different perspective.

So when one is able to develop their consciousness, the level of understanding… not only what is the stars in the universe, according to the telescope and so on, but to understand rather what is God, what is the Supreme Lord, what is the Supreme Person and that there is beyond this universe which is visible by our… to some extent by our material eyes, that there is an entire unlimited material creation with as many universes in it as there are seeds of mustard that can be contained in a big bucket, in a big drum. So then beyond this entire material creation there is a total other spiritual realm. So this how is it possible to know even you are a great sannyasi. You can’t see beyond the universe, you may see brahmaloka, you may see Chandra, how you know, that information has to be brought down, so that’s why Krishna, He comes down.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya
glānir bhavati bhārata
abhyutthānam adharmasya
tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
[BG 4.7]

I come down of My own. I come by Myself, it’s not that He is brought down. See, we don’t come down by ourselves, we come because of karmas, because of some offenses we made from the spiritual we came down, we have to get rid of that ah… that ah… attitude which has caused us to fall down. So Krishna when He came, Rama when He came, different avatars when They came, They killed the demons with Their arrows, with Their swords, with Their…. Krishna killed Kamsa with His own hand. So, in this way, the demon was killed and delivered, and those demons also achieved moksha by the Lord’s blessings.

But Lord Caitanya, He didn’t kill the body of anyone like that. Rather the part of us, that demoniac aspect of us, that asuric bhava you see which was described by the followers of the Madhva, that there are some of these asuric bhavas, they cannot get rid of it, they cannot ah… achieve moksha or they cannot become pure, you see. I don’t know how far that ah… was said by Madhva himself, but the modern day followers, some of them have this idea. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu, His power was that He would destroy that particular kalush, that covering, that avaran, that demoniac aspect of a soul and leave the purified soul, that is why Lord Caitanya is considered to be the most merciful incarnation of Visnu, of Krishna, that ever existed. Because even Krishna did not do that, someone had to go and surrender to Krishna, then he would be delivered. What about the demons like Sisupal and others, they never surrendered to Krishna, they are demons after all, they don’t care to surrender to Krishna. So therefore, how they can get delivered? They may get some moksha by merging, again they can fall down, you see.

So, up to Caitanya Mahaprabhu to some extent, a person who was in this material world, it was hard for them if they had the asuric bhava, it was practically impossible for them to get delivered. It would be very ah… rare case of some special mercy… may be some mahapurush like Narada Muni or someone, they have purified some souls like that. That is the mood of these great acharyas that they purify these fallen souls. But this first time the Lord Himself came down, in the mood of a devotee; so therefore He wanted to deliver everyone, to the last soul. In fact, it’s described that His objective was to see that every soul in the universe is delivered. At least all of the human beings he wanted to get on this planet.

So, that’s why Lord Caitanya is glorified by this - namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te - That the great, most merciful avatar, the Lord has come as His own devotee, giving kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, giving this Krishna prema which Krishna Himself did not give so freely as ah… as Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That Krishna actually would hide this, He would give it of course if you press Him for it, just like sometimes the Chief Minister may be having some very special permits and things like that. He doesn’t tell anybody about it, he is waiting for some good donation or something like that to the fund. But ah… if someone knows it and presses him, that I want that thing then he can get. Like that Krishna has got some special gifts, to give some special blessings, but He doesn’t give that, you see, normally. He gives other things, because people normally do not know about it. They ask, “Give me moksha. I will take it.” Because after moksha what is there you get liberation, then Krishna has no more obligation.

But explanation is given that by Yudhisthir, Yudhishtir was praised by Narada that, “how you are so great, that Krishna for you He is your father, He is your brother, He is your mother, He is your… head of your family, He is your God, He is your everything. Even He became your servant, He became your order carrier, who can imagine, how you can get God Himself to come and carry your message like a bearer? This is only possible by bhakti; therefore, you should consider yourself the fortunate of all people.” How is it that Krishna is carrying that shoes of Nanda Maharaj on His head for His father? You see, that is the wonderful quality of the Lord. That’s why also the avatar Krishna-Balaram, has been accepted by ah… great acharyas as the original avatar. Because these avatars contain the aspect that even Narayana doesn’t contain, since the original contain all the aspects, otherwise how is it original! It is not complete unless it contains everything.

The incarnation of Krishna contains aspects which no other avatar contains. If there is no avatar which has any things that Krishna Himself doesn’t contain. Therefore, they have come to the conclusion that Krishna is the complete form. He is the original form. om krishno vai sac-cid-ananda-ghanaha krishna adi-purushaha krishnaha purushottamaha - In the Rig Veda ,it is said that He is the adi purusa. Any case, whatever Visnu tattva, they are all the same absolute person, but according to different moods and different ah… functions they are manifesting. He is manifesting different aspects of Himself. So that form which manifests the maximum is Krishna, and His first prakash is Balaram.

So Krishna and Balaram, they also have this, they are the most personal in Their dealings, just ah… acting a simple cowherd boy, a cowherd ah… cowherd boys. In fact we find that when Krishna was in Dwarka, at that time Subal, wanted to meet ah… Krishna and that Krishna was ah… not his ah… queens said we don’t want any of this ah…they gave some difficulties for Subal to get in. Because he was coming as a cowherd boy just some farmer coming to see Krishna, the Lord of Dwaraka, who is this farmer coming here, some cowherder? Then when Krishna knew it was Subal, He said you have to bring him in, you know after all I am also a cowherder, but now just because of this will of providence, now I have to act as the King of Dwaraka, but My actual, in a mood is, I am the cowherd boy.

Actually, it is said that Krishna, He never leaves from Vrindavan. When Akrura was taking Krishna from Vrindavan and He went into the Jamuna. Actually, that ah… Vrindavan Krishna, He stayed in Vrindavan and He expanded in the Dwaraka Krishna, another Krishna Himself, but another… an expansion of Krishna left at that point. Krishna Himself stayed within. That original Vrindavan form of Krishna never left Vrindavan, and He was just observing how the devotees were experiencing love for Him in His absence, and so they could sometimes feel His presence, but they sometimes couldn’t see Him and so on.

So these things are possible for devotees to understand, but before we can get to that understanding we should know what is the power of Krishna, what is His potency? Therefore, here in the second canto, here it describes about Purusha sukta, it describes about universal form, about this unlimited potency, because otherwise we will get some…we will just think, “Oh! Krishna and Balaram! Who are they?” We won’t understand. So first we have to know, who is Visnu, how is Visnu expanding, then we come to understand that who is the original form of Visnu, that same Krishna is Visnu. That Visnu is unlimited, He is the original person, that He is beyond death, He is immortal, He is beyond karma. Being beyond karma, this is so important. Everything we do has a karma. How do we get rid of the karmas? Even if you do paap, or you do punya, it doesn’t counteract each other.

When you serve the Lord, because He is beyond the karmas, that means the karmas go to Him. So He… He absorbs those karmas, and one is then free. So one has to know the science of action, that by…. this is explained in Gita that one should know what is karma, what is vikarma, what is akarma. When you are serving the Lord in Bhakti, it is akarma, there is no reaction for that. So when the devotee is serving the Lord, then he is given the shelter, then he also becomes fearless.

bhajahū re mana śrī-nanda-nandana
abhaya-caraṇāravinda re

This abhaya-caraṇāravinda, one who gets fearlessness by taking the shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Nanda Nandana, Krishna. This name is also the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami. A.C means abhaya-caraṇāravinda. That means his name given at birth… the guru kept the name because that is a very good name. Sometimes a name is good, so it is kept. Generally, it is changed, but some slight change was given, from Abhaya Charan to Abhaya caraṇāravinda, that’s very long subset. So that pure devotee is fearless, otherwise how Prabhupada at the age of 70 can go alone by a ship to America to spread this message of Bhagavat Gita or Srimad Bhagavatam, sanatan dharma. Unless you have complete faith in Krishna, complete shelter of Krishna it is not possible to have that level of fearlessness. But the devotee they have this fearlessness as they advance. That’s also a quality.

Quality of animal life means always fearful. People think that the animals are happy. In France they asked the people, “What you would like to be in your next life?” The men said that, “I like to be a dog” and the woman said that “I like to be a cat.” This was the number one choice. Second choice of men was horse, second choice of woman was snake. (laughter). They don’t know. They think that animals are free, animals are free. What freedom do they have? You look at a bird, it’s always looking every moment. They are moving their head constantly because they are always afraid. Animals, the nature of animal life is fear. Every animal is afraid. Cat is thinking when the dog will catch me, dog is thinking when that guy will kick me. Somehow, they are always afraid. (laughter). That’s why in human life what is happening now in the modern world, we are having big bowing jets, we are having nice cities, but what is happening, we are all afraid, why? Because of lack of spiritual development and increase of animalistic tendency. In spite of so much technology everyone is afraid, afraid of terrorist, afraid of crashes, afraid of so many things, and they are rightfully so. And they are all real dangers, because so long we think we are the body, we know the body can be destroyed any moment, we should be afraid, that is the nature of animal life. You know you are the body and the body can be killed any moment, so any intelligent animal is afraid, because the fear is justified fear for an animal, because the body will be destroyed sooner or later, and preservation means how to make it later. We can never make it never.

So why a person becomes fearless when they are devotees or when they get spiritual knowledge, because they know that they are not the body. So that type of fear, of course care is there, precaution may be there, but that fearlessness meaning that the freedom from the desperation or from the ah… that type of ignorant type of fear when one is feeling ah… hopelessness and so on, that is not there.

A group of psychologists did a study in Los Angeles of the devotees, and they said that as there was so much complaints saying that they are brainwashed or something like that, because people get that idea in the West, because we chant

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

They think this makes you into a mindless idiot, because you are listening to this mantra. You can listen to this rock and roll the whole day, that doesn’t make you into a mindless idiot, but if you chant the name of God that makes your mind, this is their presumption. They are hearing at full blast for hearing. “I can’t get a nose at this fashion… na na na…” All these things, that doesn’t make you into a mindless idiot, but if you chant the name of God, that makes you mindless… this is their idea, this makes you brainwash. Prabhupada, he retorted that, they have no brain to wash. (laughter). We came to give them brain. (laughter). We came from India to give them intelligence, they have no spiritual intelligence.

So these psychologists, they were neutral people, they did a… they did a study of the devotees, and they found that the devotees were not brainless idiots. That on an average they are more intelligent than the normal people and they are more psychologically they are more self-sufficient. They found that more people in society, they are more afraid of what people, the other people are thinking, therefore they conform themselves and they are more, they are actually more of type of kind of crippled personality. But that… found that the devotees where each one ah… not so concerned about what others were thinking ah… on that level, that therefore they were more self ah…sufficient…more independent thinking, more of course. Voluntarily they had dedicated themselves to particular path, but that was something voluntary, that was something that was conscious, that was an intelligent decision. As a result, their entire personality, they found to be somewhat more developed. He said that… but this all a natural thing, nothing very abnormal. These individuals like that in the material world also, but they said that one thing was very abnormal with the devotees. They said that, they didn’t find any case of anyone who had been in the movement in the period of two years who had suffered depression.

They said in the material world, especially in America, that one of the biggest problems is depression. That everyo.ne suffers depression in some case or another, by death of relative, or by business failure, or by frustration of this kind or that. They all suffer depression, and during the time of depression, there is the danger of suicide, danger of violent acts, danger of drug addiction, danger of business further collapse, so many things that are very grave. They found… they couldn’t find any devotee who suffered any symptom of depression. This is the actual thing, that because the abhaya caranaravinda re - this fearlessness.

When you develop in your relationship with Krishna, you know that He is reciprocating, one devotee can feel that, in many ways. Ways some person may say this is superstition or someone else may say it is imagination, but whatever over a period of time, the devotee feels not only personal satisfaction, not only feels a personal peace of mind which is real, but they also feel that Krishna is personally reciprocating in various ways. And they become fearless. Their faith is reinforced by different things that happen.

So in this way, they don’t have depression, whatever reason you can say, they don’t have depression. So that is actually just another evidence, not everything that here we are reading today; the more it gives fearlessness. So if somebody wants to end depression, wants to end mental disease, wants to end ah… frustration, even all this material common problems, they become a devotee of Krishna and chant Hare Krishna, be happy. And that you want to achieve ah… liberation, alright same thing, you want to achieve the spiritual full knowledge, “What is the absolute truth? Where have I come from? What is the goal of life?” The only way you can achieve that is through Krishna consciousness. Nature of the spirit is to be happy, you want the happiness, you have to bring our spirit, bring the self, bring our self into the spiritual environment. So that is easily created by this process of chanting of

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

The devotees they become independent of the cigarette smoking, of intoxication, of other type of illicit activities which take a person in control of their life and then ruin their life.

Hare Krishna. Any questions? Yes.

Any questions? Yes.

Devotee: The materialists sometimes say that I am fearless of death. I am fearless!

Jayapataka Swami: Just pull out a pistol with a blade and shoot him, see what happens. (laughter) See what happens. They will take you to court and sue for scaring the hell out of them. Just like that Uttam Kumar. I was telling in Madras the story, this famous movie star, he was like in north India, he was like the… in the eastern part he was like Amit Bachan, there are all this stunts and superhero type, but he got some disease and he was dying, and so he grabbed his doctor’s hand and was just saying, even though the reporters were there, saying, “Bachao, Bachao… save me, save me.” So then he died holding the doctor’s hand. So people were startled, the big hero was crying, “save me, save me”, died like that in complete fear. So then they asked the doctor that ah… “Don’t you feel ashamed that you couldn’t save your patient when he was dying like that, crying save me, save me.” “Listen, many times he cried like that, many times I saved him, this the only one time I failed.”

(laughter)

Someone may be fearless, you can all there is two key reasons to be fearless, one is through knowledge and other is through ignorance. You see. Someone who is very ignorant, they can also be very fearless. Just like some people are insane, they are… they don’t know, they walk off the roof, they are fearless. They may fall five stories and die. Here is the natural instinct… we should… we are, we will fear… just like something is… that within our hormones, within our body, say that there is some danger there that ah… physical response would be there. But this fearlessness means some higher level. If you don’t know what the future holds, and you are not afraid what is that… what is the value of your fearlessness?

Somebody while taking drug, he is not afraid, what is the value of that? But if you know what the future holds, therefore you are not. Because you have knowledge that is real fearlessness. Someone is ignorant, he doesn’t know if he is able to… just keep his brains stunned, that no, I have no fear. Just like someone is saying, “Don’t go there because there is a rioting.” “No, I don’t have any fear.” He goes and then his car gets tore off. This type of fearlessness has no value. We are talking about fearlessness due to having real knowledge and real confidence and what’s happening, that fearlessness is due just that…. That way some people think, “There is no death, there is no life after death, I am fearlessness, let me die, nothing is there.” Someone may be fearless like that also but in actual practicality it is very hard to stay in that… but say even if someone has that, what do they gain?

If they say there is nothing after death, so their fearlessness is because they say there is nothing, so whether I live, or die doesn’t make any difference. I don’t exist. I accept Buddhist. There is nothing, everything is void, whether I exist or not, then why worry about it? But say that they have some speculation like that, so then when you die then it’s finished, nothing to worry about. But this line of philosophy is promoting terrorism. They think that the value of life is no value. Whether you kill a man, or you just throw a… a… 200 ah… pound bag of cement ah… into the river, what is the difference? This life is nothing, so killing is nothing. Everything is nothing, nothing is nothing. All is nothing. (laughter) From nothing to nothing… you see. This is all promoting terrorism in the world.

This impersonal, you find the impersonal religious ah… so called… so called followers of religions which are promoting more impersonal idea tend to be more violent, as a nature, as a natural thing, than who believes in personal. Although everybody is more or less violent in this dane age, due to the kali yuga, and due to the meat eating, and so on. But that kind of values about doing some horrible act of violence in an impersonal idea is more. Because they…. for them personality doesn’t have any real value. That’s just historically… one can just read the newspaper who does the most horrible things? Those who don’t believe in God or who don’t believe or believe that God is there, but He is impersonal, they can do anything. That type of fearlessness that ah… I don’t care what happens, I will do anything, that is not a productive fearlessness.

We are talking about having fearlessness due to knowledge, fearlessness due to a higher spiritual realization. Someone says I am fearless, only must be a devotee. Even he has fearlessness… that also… yes that has been given to you by Krishna, because that’s here in the verse that, Krishna is the giver of fearlessness, He is the controller. So if somebody has any fearlessness he is blessed by Krishna.

I had a girl told me that, I was in San Francisco and the girl said that, “I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe in any of these things, I don’t need these things, I am self-sufficient, so and so.” She had a small child. All of a sudden there was there was an earthquake and sometimes in San Francisco there are earthquakes, and the houses are shaking and there are things moving, and suddenly she starts screaming out, “I don’t want to die, God save me, God save me!” Within 10 minutes I was astonished, she is running out of the house saying, God save me. A minute before she was saying, I don’t believe in God, I don’t care for all these you know, and all of a sudden the house started shaking, then suddenly she got totally afraid, God save me! God save me! running out of the house. Because people think God is an interruption in their enjoyment, so they say I don’t care about God. But when the fear comes…. (laughter) When the fear of death is there then they think this is a greater ah.. problem, then who is going to save them, then they say God.

Yes.

Devotee: How do you account for the present development in the civilization, science, technology and who is the cause behind it?

Jayapataka Swami: Who is the cause? Will of providence. These things are all predicted. Krishna told Mayasura that, don’t give all this ah… yantra vaigyan … in the kali yuga, don’t give it now, because it disturbs them. Yantra vaigyan is always there mentioned in the Vedas - airplanes and so many things are there, but if you have the higher psychic power, why use the machine?

You have a new Maruti car, if you don’t have one you ask those who have and you keep a track, is that car immortal? How much energy… any new thing you get it is very nice, but after a while the tires wear out, you change the tire, fill the air, put the fluid in the brakes, put the oil in the brakes, then the spark plug wear out, then check up, and tuning and this… and this goes on. You have a machine means what, you have to serve that machine because nature of the material world is always breaking down. If so you want to keep something in tip-top condition, you have to put so much energy into it. So Ramachandra, if He wanted He couldn’t have a boeing ah… bowing demake… the Puspa viman is much better, you don’t have any… it’s running by spiritual potencies. The devatas, they don’t mess around the… but the asuras they use these jantras. The asuras always have the jantra vaigyan, but they have to work like anything to maintain it. They have higher level jantra vaigyan also that requires less maintenance than what we are doing now. What we are doing is the lowest level.

Devotee: Is there a divine mind behind this creation?

Jayapataka Swami: Behind the creation divine mind is ah… there, I don’t know how it fits into the context of your question.

Devotee: When they look at can’t we see Krishna in it?

Jayapataka Swami: Of course, anything that is wonderful in the world, you can see the reflection of Krishna in it. We are not against technology. It’s not technology that is bad, it’s how they use it, right?? What’s wrong with light, electricity, nothing is wrong with it, it’s a neutral thing. Technology… if you take an airplane and you fly, devotees have to go somewhere and do some preaching, what is the problem, or you see everything is satvik, rajas and tamas, if they use something to destroy others that is tamas, if you use it just for maintaining your material or increasing your material situation for your sense gratification then it is rajas, and if you use it for helping others and for bringing people to a higher awareness this is satvik. So things that are used for a satvik purpose it is very beneficial, if it is rajasik it is neutral- it’s neither beneficial neither it’s very harmful. If they use something for tamasic then it is harmful.

So the problem is that many of the… for the purpose of rajas people are doing tamas. Just like the medicine may be good, but that some people are getting spurious medicines to make more progress. So for rajas purpose they are doing some tamasik things and that is creating problem. So the thing itself is not… it’s only that what the material nature is, it’s neither good nor bad, it’s simply an energy of God, if you use it in God’s service, if you use it in Krishna’s service it’s good, it’s pure, it’s uplifting, it’s wonderful. If you use it for destruction, for then it is ah… material, if you use if for some material purpose than it has some temporary effect. Temporary effect may be good or may be bad according to the particular mode it is under. Everything has its sanction of Krishna.

How the intelligent person is desiring to do something? He wants either researching for long hours, Krishna gives them the intelligence how they can do that. If they want to build a bomb, He also gives them intelligence; if they want to build medicine then they make a medicine, He gives them intelligence. How they use it, that’s up to them, and then they may have to take the karmas for that. Krishna is the supersoul antarjami. If a person is wanting to do something bad enough, they are trying for it hard enough and then if they have the necessary punya, that they can get what they want.

Punya means what? That’s your… that’s your bank balance, you can get what you want. If you have a good punya and you want to do a bad thing, you can get the power from God to do it, but then you use up your punya, then after that when it is used up you fall down.

So previously in the world people were doing more and more. They were doing many pious activities. All the forefathers, others they were doing, so some punya is there. So they are able to do something. But now they are doing so many sinful activities. Gradually the punya is going down, and the paap is increasing. So this whole civilization can crumble, it can destroy itself. So the same jet that are flying us from here to there, that can also fly the nuclear bombs and drop those bombs. They have already calculated that there is enough nuclear warheads to destroy the civilization about hundred and so or more times over, hundred or thousand times, I forget that. It’s quite incredible there are so much nuclear warheads that ah… they can overkill. So this does not mean that…we are not against technology because unless there is spiritual training side by side, then these all things will be misused.

Simply going on increasing new ah…just like they created… that they have now, you can buy electric toothbrush, so they don’t have to just… do that stress and strain of moving your wrist. It just do that eh… it just moves, right? And then everything is so automatic, you don’t have to get up to turn your TV, now you have cordless. And the one they… and now in America… they have also, you have to spend thousands dollars in joining a health spot because if you don’t get any exercise, you have to spend thousand dollars and then we have machines and then you can run, and do rowing and do all exercise, in air-conditioner. So this is all artificial. Insanity.

We created a society which to make more and more comfort, then we have so bad health because we don’t move, we have to then ah… spend money in more machines to do exercising. So the point is that, Prabhupada said that, what is the need for all this artificial life-style? Why not just bring things back to more natural way of life? Because what we are doing is that we are wasting valuable human energy. All these things, all these machines mean waste of energy.

I found in the village, when I am travelling around in India, I found one lady was making… in the morning she was making rice paddies, soaking in the water overnight. She cooked it in the sand ah… and put it on the… put it in a small ah… she had a hollowed out wooden log with a steal top in the bottom. The daughter was putting in the hot rice cooked in pot putting into the steel cup. And the lady was taking... She was sixty-five years old. She is taking a stick and she was hitting the… hitting the ah…rice and flattening it and making her ah… morning cereal. The daughter was taking out the rice and just ah… cleaning it up and that was the cereal for the family in the morning. Everyone was in tip-top shape.

So now we buy the corn flake… this that… different thing we are buying now from the package, and you have to pay 50 times the cost than what the actual grain costs, and this is considered advancement of civilization. For those…those people they had to go to the effort… you see, although we don’t have the time now, we have to fast life, fast life means to work so hard so that we can maintain this artificial way of life. So that’s why we are against it, that why unnecessarily complicate life.

There may be, you may need defense, you may need ah… you may need essential commodities you may need, for agriculture or for medicine, certain things you may want to have hi-tech, otherwise we are just doing hi-tech for this… this is just like a mad rush, where it is ending nobody knows. Nobody can see where the end of the civilization is, but few…many people think that it is probably ending up in nuclear war.

So unless… unless people have more of a spiritual outlook, then they are going to use all material these material items simply for the destruction. And if they have a spiritual outlook then naturally, they are going to use this material things for the beneficial. So we are simply saying that whatever material things are there…side by side there should be a promotion of spiritual values, spiritual education, and let people be able to be happy living a more natural way of life. In that way unnecessarily one won’t have to have unnecessary technology. Whatever technology is necessary that would never always be there. We cannot turn back the clock, we are in this yuga and we are here to stay until they bore everything up… and then all these machines are useless, then we have to adapt. That will be easier to adapt in India than in the West. But wherever you are the real…the real governor which can stop this ah… rampant ah… proliferation… how you say?... proliferation of ah… of materialistic violence and degradation.

To counteract it, it needs spiritual values, and the simple method, the capsule method… if you are going to do everything the modern way… then how do religion in a capsule way? Whole religion… the Vedas say… all the Vedas, all the tantras, all agamanas, all sacrifices, everything is been combined into eight syllables- Hare Krishna Hare Krishna. so that’s … you just chant this Hare Krishna mahamantra and everything is there combined within there. So this is the… especially suited for the modern world. You want everything quick, fast, then alright you take it, this is the capsule form,

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

You see how fast it works.

Devotee: you see, you said about realize them…

Jayapataka Swami: no karma… that you judge.

Devotee: If we look closely into our mind, our mind always tends towards some absolute, whether it is the spiritual or in the material nature, so can we justify this tending towards this absolute, both in the material as well as the spiritual, and this is only a phase of development. This material development is only a phase, and that there is always a divine mind balancing the whole movement. From the latter stage they just come back to reconcile the opposing forces.

Jayapataka Swami: Who is they?

Devotee: Probably God will manifest it in that way

Jayapataka Swami: You see… we can go on in this way interpolating and imagining and speculating.

Devotee:No, we are not imagining. As we see it in reality that there is tending towards natural in everything… whether in destruction or in…

Jayapataka Swami: But the analysis of that would be… not only aided but actually be properly understood if you take advantage of the words that God has given us, the words that Krishna has given us in the Bhagavad gita, in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

You may see that there is tendency to an absolute, so you want to know why is that, then you start to make different ah… assumptions, this is why, that is why. The thing is that if you go to the Vedas, they say yes, because there is an absolute, naturally there is a tendency for an absolute, because absolute truth is there, so naturally there is a tendency to go looking for the absolute.

Because we are eternal even if you try to just ah… kill a small bug, the bug runs away, because the nature of it is to live, not to die. Death is unnatural; therefore nobody wants to die. Because by nature the atma is eternal, so this change of body is an unnatural thing. But we have to go through it because we are in a material conditional life, so we want to understand why these tendencies are there, why a person wants to live, why they go for the absolute, because they want to live, because we are eternal by nature, they go for the absolute because everything is coming from the absolute truth.

So to understand these things, your ideas are alright, but then if you want to really see whether they are valid or not, otherwise if it is just an opinion, you have one opinion, the other person has another opinion, this way over the cups of coffee people can sit and give their opinions, but there will be no conclusion.

So that’s why according to the Vedic tradition we try to go through and analyze from the Vedic viewpoint because here we are getting information, what is existing beyond our perception. Something which is beyond our ability to perceive, what is the use of discussing it? How can you…how can you… what is the value of trying to by simply speculating, to try to understand what it is. Something which is beyond, what is beyond this universe. Even what is within this universe, they can’t figure out… at least some idea, they can study the vibrations, the type of light coming, and through various ah…means they can try to assume what is the ah… components of that light, what are the… whether it is ah… containing the elements that they know, that’s some … at least there is some hint that they can get some idea from some ah… from some perception. But if you say what is beyond this universe, beyond the perception, what is the value of discussing that?

So to discuss that or to understand that is there beyond our perception, beyond our comprehension, therefore the Vedas have been given. But to bring us into focus they also explain what is within our perception, that within the body there is the self and the self is situated in the heart, and the consciousness is spread from the self throughout the entire body through the bloodstream, and therefore the check is consciousness can be perceived, and the consciousness is the symptom of the self. So if we cut off the circulation of our hand for a period of time cut off the blood, then we know the hand loses its feeling. If we sit in a particular way where the blood doesn’t get to the feet, then our feet falls asleep we call it… we cannot feel anything, they are numb. That means the body by nature is numb, it’s not conscious, but because the soul is in the heart and the consciousness is spread through the blood stream, therefore the body appears to be conscious, it is able to perceive and ah… the senses are activated by the presence of consciousness.

When the soul leaves the body, the body itself has no more consciousness, it is a dull, dead piece of flesh and bone, there is no value whatsoever, except maybe you can sell it as a… for organs or something, but as far as spare parts or anything, but as far as a valuable thing… the value is gone. So we think that the value is the body, the real value is the soul. The real value is the spirit soul and that is what we are trying to explain to people. If you want to know what is the spirit soul, you cannot know it simply by this type of analysis, you have to ultimately come to the Vedas, because the Vedas are the authorized scientific books on the science of the self, science of what is beyond our perception.

So if you want to know why is it that things are happening or how is that God is working, why don’t you hear from Him Himself? He has spoken Bhagavad gita. He has explained, “na karmayate” I am not the karma…lipyate - I am not engaged or bound by karmas. Just today we were hearing from Narada Muni; it’s said He is the controller of immortality and fearlessness, He is transcendental to death and fruitive actions, He is above fruitive activities, that means what is going on in the material world He is above it. That, if He wants to interfere, He can. He has that ability, but He doesn’t normally get involved except when He wants to, you see. He doesn’t ah… not that everything that goes on is personally done by Him or whatever… He gives His sanction, He lets it…. let it be. You wanted to do this horrible thing, alright do it… then He will adjust in such a way, that the people who deserve that karma they get that result. Just like somebody wants to hijack a plane, there is death set on it, so then He just organizes it, through His different agents that all the people on the plane are the people who deserved to get hijacked.

Devotee: The Vedas say that there are four yugas, satya yuga, dwapar yuga… isn’t it a cycle, it’s not pre-planned?

Jayapataka Swami: Yes

Devotee: So it’s a divine play?

Jayapataka Swami: Cycles are pre-planned.

Devotee: Kali yuga and all this… developments are going to take place, I think that the Vedas have said about that.

Jayapataka Swami: It’s not that Krishna is desiring that you do that, he knows that this is going to happen. He knows the nature of it, just like a father knows the nature of the children, when he sees the child is growing up and having bad friends and he… he knows that if my child doesn’t get out of this association, he is going to get drunk, he is going to have ah… drug problems, he is going to get the diseases or have some social ah… ah… mark on him. Does that mean that the father desires it, that the father is instigating it? Because he can see in the future that this is what is going to happen. Krishna is not instigating that you all become bad in this kali yuga, otherwise why He is coming down as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, why He came as Krishna, why He came down as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and He explained to the people, “You follow the vedas. This is the disease of this age”. I am telling you this to get out of this disease. Why the government tells you, “Now it is malaria epidemic, you use mosquito nets, you take winine pills, you do this, you do that, why? Because it’s quite… malaria epidemic may be there, they would be telling the people so that they can all go out and get malaria?

Sastras are saying that this kali yuga, people they should be more enthusiastic for engaging in sinful activities. The sastras are telling, this is the critical period, this is the time when it is very easy to be contaminated. You have to take precaution, that’s why is the government… God is the government, He is telling the people, this is kali yuga, this is the nature, then He says, “what is the cure?”

harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva
nāsty eva gatir anyathā

That in this age of kali you chant the name of God, chant the name of God, chant the name of God, there is no other way, no other way, no other way to be purified in this age of kali. He gives the medicine for this disease.

He has His own divine play in the spiritual world. There you can say it is all His play, there He is enjoying with His cowherd friends and cowherd girlfriends, and with His mothers and fathers and His all ah… His devotees, that’s His play, there He is personally involved in, and in this material world He is aloof. It’s not that Krishna is forcing people to be blinded by ah… by bad doctors or that Krishna is forcing people that they should do all these horrible things? That is due to their own spiritual bankruptcy and due to their own material karmas, that these things are happening.

Krishna is telling, “You don’t do these things.” Why in the Vedas it is said you don’t do violence, “ahimsa paramo dharma”, different ah…ah… different maxims are given, different injunctions are given. Government says, “You don’t do this, you don’t drive on the wrong side of the road, you don’t drink and drive”; if someone does it, does that mean the government is ah… promoting it? How can we say that? Government is saying, “Don’t do those things”, You are doing it anyway.

Krishna is saying if you do this, it’s is a paap, I am going to punish you, they do it anyway, and then they have the audacity to say that Krishna is responsible. That He is doing it, His lila, His play. This is totally offensive and ridiculous, and people should be ashamed of it. There are number one atheist in this world that say that God is the one who is causing our suffering. You cause your own suffering due to your sinful activities, and if you want to stop suffering then stop promoting this bogus idea and surrender to God and follow His law. That is Dharma. So called sophisticated, educated mental speculators are ruining India and ruining the world. Hare Krishna. Do not mind. I hate to see the world being destroyed by this type of mental speculation and I am sorry to see you.

Devotee: I am not saying I don’t believe in God, I am fully surrendered unto Krishna. I just wanted to get your views on this, why the outside world is bewildered? I think you have misunderstood me and I am really sorry if I have asked that question to you, I am fully surrendered to Krishna and you can ask the devotee, I am very sorry that you had to shout at me like this.

Jayapataka Swami: I am not shouting at you, I am shouting at the philosophy.

Devotee: It’s not my philosophy, I want to get a view, why the outside world, what is going on in the outside world, should we not have an understanding? Why the people are… so that

Jayapataka Swami: If it’s not your philosophy, then you are so much more the better, and because I don’t want it to be your philosophy, because I care for you, because I care for this world, therefore I am saying it in a… in a…in a… passionate way.

(Srila Acaryapada ki jay. Patita pavana Guru Maharaj ki jai)

Jayapataka Swami: So that you take it more seriously, because this type of philosophy, people take it very lightly. They have their Gita gyan yajnas and this yajnas and that yajna, they sit around and they mental speculate, and then they have big planning commission and all these ideas are promoted.

Devotee: And finally, if I did not believe in God, I would not be here. You can ask the devotees, I come here regularly every Sunday.

Jayapataka Swami: People may believe in God, but then they say God is formless, so what is that belief? So like this we have to refine our belief in God. I don’t say that you don’t believe in God, but then if you believe in God then you should know how to refine your, how to improve, and how to expand on that belief of God so that it becomes complete and it becomes totally satisfying to you.

Devotee: I am not going to propound this philosophy, I just wanted to have your views that’s all, I am sorry anyway.

Jayapataka Swami: No, don’t be sorry, that’s all right. Please don’t mind… that I didn’t… I am just saying in that sense, that these views, they are… they are actually, if you see their effect on the society, you read it, with a view that…may be you are saying that it’s a devil’s advocate, then if you take it as devil’s advocate then don’t take it personally, right? In a devil’s advocate I like saying a view that I heard in a bazaar and if I get the… the answer to that I shouldn’t take it personally, because it is not my view. So if it is not your view then don’t take it personally. If the shoe fits you wear it, if it doesn’t fit you then don’t take it personally. But because you are hammering on the same viewpoint so then what… so you want to bring it up then we will discuss it… it in full force… in full force. What is the real value? Let people see.

Every day we are reading Indian express, you read in the Hindu, you read in all the newspapers, in all the India Today, all these so called sophisticated journalists, they all write this type of views, and you see what is the result, what is the use of India that is becoming drug addicts in the universities following America, why? Because of this type of views. I don’t say these are your views, but because you bring that up… so if you bring them up then to a certain point naturally we started to feel, look at how… how the great heritage of India where people could become spiritually conscious, they could know what is the purpose of life, they should be rather leading the entire world, instead what are they doing, they are becoming totally destroyed by all this type of ah… ideas.

So I don’t say that this is your idea, I am very pleased to see that you don’t have these ideas. But therefore, still the fact remains that these ideas which are actually leading people very subtly away. They don’t come out and say that I don’t believe in God. Better they came out and said that I don’t believe in God. They say, “No I believe in God, but He is the one who is doing all these things”, then what is the sense, this is worse. I am not responsible for my sins. He is doing everything; in that way I believe in God. What is that? If I say my father…. I believe in my father, but my father is forcing me to do prostitution, black-market, everything, then your father should be put in jail. (laughter). That’s what the court will say.

So when we say that God, I believe in God but He is the one who is responsible, it’s His lila, it’s His khela, He is doing everything. He has predicted, He is showing this is how material world degenerates, He is the one who finally comes and kills everyone off and re-establishes Satya-yuga. Then you gradually again and again degenerates because the nature of the material world is to constantly degenerate and degenerate and degenerate, until finally it becomes so intolerable in the end of kali-yuga that Himself He comes down and just clears off the whole show and re-establishes satya-yuga.

That means His standard is satya-yuga but due to the passing of time it starts to go down, but what is the advantage of Kali-yuga? The advantage is that, because it is so horrible and so materialistic and so rotten to try to do anything punya, anything you want to do, material good religious work, it’s practically doomed to various obstacles. Therefore at this time it is a very good time to go and to complete vairagya, to go into complete kind of simply hopelessness as far as material future is concerned, because there is no future in the material world, you can see it, it’s a… in the satya yuga you don’t feel that way. It’s very peaceful, nice, everyone is friendly, there is all religious, so people they are not so oppressed.

In this age you can see that there is so much difficulty, that is a good impetus to simply fix your mind on God and go back to the spiritual world. That’s why it’s described in the Bhagavatam that specially the good quality in this age is kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann - it’s got so many defects, asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ - but it is got one good quality, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya - what is that Kirtan you chant, chant the name of Krishna, that is the good quality, why? mukta-saṅgaḥ - you get liberation from the material world, paraṁ vrajet - and you go back to the spiritual world. You achieve the Supreme, but this is the advantage of kali yuga, that in this age it is easy to achieve liberation, you can achieve in 60 years or in 100 years. In Satya yuga, you have to meditate for tens and thousands of years, treta yuga you have to do huge sacrifices.

So in this age, as the one side going, Krishna, He balances things out. Material people have made a mess with it, so alright. He is giving a facility, alright this is what happens, If I leave the show in your hands you ruin the whole thing and you make a mess of it, and when it gets too bad I am going to come in and straighten everything out, but in the meantime I am leaving you happy with your play”. This is our playground, we are the one who makes a mess of this world, we are the one who desire these things. The politicians, the leaders, the individuals, they are the ones who want to have the chicken in every pot, they are the one who want to have illicit sex, they are the one.

Krishna never promoted that free love. He said that you will be married. If You are not married and have irreligious sex life you are doing sin. Before you put the blame. He is not desiring that people should do all the things that they are doing in the world today. He is telling the opposite, but we don’t follow His laws. Therefore, things go degraded. But what if those who do follow, in spite of all the hellish situation, those who try to follow His law, who chant His names, what happens they go easily back to godhead.

Just like if you have so many sons who are bad, and one son he tries to follow the father, he should give him the whole inheritance. It’s like that. Right now, everyone is just so bane; anyone who just obeys, just at this time they get a special benefit. They get a special bonus. So that’s what we are trying to promote, and also in spite of that the whole situation in kali yuga, if we are able to spread the vibrations of Krishna’s name far enough, it counteracts the effect of the kali yuga. Therefore, we are trying to spread this chanting of Hare Krishna far and wide, so that this effect of kali yuga can be pushed back. Then you can see an actual peaceful world to live in.

Hare Krishna.