19850501 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.12.17-19

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on July 22nd 1986 in Talaban Farm, Carrier, Missisippi. The class begins with a reading from the Srimad Bhagavatam, 6th Canto, chapter 12, text 17-19. Om nama bhagavate vasudevaya Narayanam namaskrityam naranchaiva narottamam Daivim saraswatim vyasam Tato jaya mudireyet Mukam karoti vacalam Pangum langyate girim Yat kripa tamaham vande Sri gurum dina tarinam Yat kripa tama ham vande Parama nanda madhavam Sri caitanya…

prana-glaho yam samara isv-akso vahanasanah atra na jnayate musya jayo musya parajayah

JPS: Prana Devotees: Prana JPS: glaho Devotees: glaho JPS: yam Devotees: yam JPS: samara Devotees: samara JPS: isu Devotees: isu JPS: aksah Devotees: aksah JPS: vahana Devotees: vahana JPS: asanah Devotees: asanah JPS: atra Devotees: atra JPS: na Devotees: na JPS: jnayate Devotees: jnayate JPS: amusya Devotees: amusya JPS: jaya Devotees: jaya JPS: amusya Devotees: amusya JPS: para-jayah Devotees: para-jayah JPS: prana-glaho yam samara Devotees: prana-glaho yam samara JPS: isv-akso vahanasanah Devotees: isv-akso vahanasanah JPS: atra na jnayate musya Devotees: atra na jnayate musya JPS: jayo musya parajayah Devotees: jayo musya parajayah JPS: O my enemy, Devotees: O my enemy, JPS: consider this battle Devotees: consider this battle JPS: a gambling match Devotees: a gambling match JPS: in which our lives Devotees: in which our lives JPS: are the stakes, Devotees: are the stakes, JPS: the arrows are the dice, Devotees: the arrows are the dice, JPS: and the animals Devotees: and the animals JPS: acting as carriers Devotees: acting as carriers JPS: are the game board. Devotees: are the game board. JPS: No one can understand Devotees: No one can understand JPS: who will be defeated Devotees: who will be defeated JPS: and who will be victorious. Devotees: and who will be victorious. JPS: It all depends on providence. Devotees: It all depends on providence.

O my enemy, consider this battle a gambling match in which our lives are the stakes, the arrows are the dice, and the animals acting as carriers are the game board. No one can understand who will be defeated and who will be victorious. It all depends on providence. JPS: sri-suka uvaca, indro vrtra-vacah srutva gatalikam upa…ah… apujayat grhita-vajrah ah… prahasams tam aha gata-vismayah JPS: sri-suka uvaca Devotees: sri-suka uvaca JPS: indro vrtra-vacah srutva Devotees: indro vrtra-vacah srutva JPS: gatalikam apujayat Devotees: gatalikam apujayat JPS: grh… grihita-vajrah prahasams Devotees: grihita-vajrah prahasams JPS: tam aha gata-vismayah Devotees: tam aha gata-vismayah Translation by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada: Sukadeva Gosvami said: Hearing the straightforward, instructive words of Vrtrasura, King Indra praised him and again took the thunderbolt in his hand. Without bewilderment or duplicity, he then smiled and spoke to Vrtrasura as follows. JPS: Sukadeva Gosvami said Devotees: Sukadeva Gosvami said JPS: Hearing the straightforward Devotees: Hearing the straightforward JPS: instructive words Devotees: instructive words JPS: of Vrtrasura Devotees: of Vrtrasura JPS: King Indra praised him Devotees: King Indra praised him JPS: and again took the thunderbolt Devotees: and again took the thunderbolt JPS: in his hand. Devotees: in his hand. JPS: without bewilderment or duplicity Devotees: without bewilderment or duplicity JPS: He then smiled Devotees: He then smiled JPS: and spoke to Vritrasura as follows Devotees: and spoke to Vritrasura as follows Purport by Srila Prabhupada: King Indra, the greatest of the demigods, was astonished to hear the instructions of Vrtrasura, who was supposed to be a demon. He was struck with wonder that a demon could speak so intelligently. Then he remembered great devotees like Prahlada Maharaja and Bali Maharaja, who had been born in the families of demons, and thus he came to his senses. Even so-called demons sometimes have exalted devotion for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Indra smiled reassuringly at Vrtrasura. JPS: indra uvaca Devotees: indra uvaca JPS: aho danava siddho ’si Devotee: aho danava siddho ’si JPS: yasya te matir idrsi Devotees: yasya te matir idrsi JPS: bhakta sarvatmanatmanam Devotees: bhakta sarvatmanatmanam JPS: suhrdam jagad-isvaram Devotees: suhrdam jagad-isvaram Translation by Srila Prabhupada JPS: Indra said: O great demon, I see by your discrimination and endurance in devotional service, despite your dangerous position, that you are a perfect devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Supersoul and friend of everyone. Translation: JPS: Indra said: Devotees: Indra said: JPS: O great demon, Devotees: O great demon, JPS: I see by your discrimination Devotees: I see by your discrimination JPS: and endurance in devotional service Devotees: and endurance in devotional service JPS: despite your dangerous position Devotees: despite your dangerous position JPS: that you are a perfect devotee Devotees: that you are a perfect devotee JPS: of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Devotees: of the Supreme Personality of Godhead JPS: the Supersoul and friend of everyone. Devotees: the Supersoul and friend of everyone. Purport: As stated in Bhagavad-gita (6.22):

yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah yasmin sthito na duhkhena gurunapi vicalyate Translation: “Established in Krshna consciousness, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of the greatest difficulty.” End of translation. An unalloyed devotee is never disturbed by any kind of trying circumstance. Indra was surprised to see that Vrtrasura, undisturbed, was fixed in devotional service to the Lord, for such a mentality is impossible for a demon. However, by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, anyone can become an exalted devotee (striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te ’pi yanti param gatim). An unalloyed devotee is sure to return home, back to Godhead. Thus end the Bhaktivedanta translation purport of the Srimad Bhagavatam, texts-17,18 and 19 of chapter 12, Canto- 6, in the chapter entitled Vritrarsura’s glorious death, a fight against each other. Actually Vritrasura… Citraketu had been cursed to become a demon… He is a great devotee reincarnated or transmigrated into this birth. So his purpose was he had to fight with Indra. Indra is also a devotee. As the king of the demigods, he has to maintain certain ksatriya codes and that also caused sometimes for fighting with demons.
In spite of both being a devotee there is a bit of a difference. It’s amazing how Indra, he had become disheartened, practically admitted defeated and Vritrasura then started to preach to him how we should see everything to be… being performed by the will of the supreme no matter how bad or sure defeat might appear. No one is guaranteed victory, no one is guaranteed defeat in this material world. The only one who is guaranteed victory is Krishna, the Lord, Visnu…the different expansions...otherwise the conditioned soul can always be defeated or can be victorious, there is no surety of it, but the one who is giving victory, defeat is the Lord. So in this way he encouraged him to just pick up your thunderbolt and start fighting again. “don’t be a slouch!” Indra was amazed to hear all this preachings from a so called demon because the difference is Indra is a sakam devotee. There are two types of devotees- sakam and akam. Those who have got some desires are called sakam. Kam means lust or desire. Sa means with, aa means no. Aakam means no desire, or desireless devotee. So demigods generally sakam devotees, those devotees who have got some desire for material comfort, for material opulence’s, for material enjoyments, but to our devotees of the Lord they take birth in the heavenly planets as demigods or resi… or differ… or in the planets of the demigods… and thus they can enjoy very comfortable material life. Of course material life means that there is also some problems. So even though Indra is enjoying all the comforts of being the King of heaven, he has to also fight with such dangerous, terrible demons as Vritrasura who could easily ah… kill one with their immense prowess. So that is a one kind of devotee. Other type of devotee who has got no desire but to serve the Lord. So although Vritrasura got his arms cut off, we should be normally be bit off a… you can say a bit disheartening if you are fighting a battle and one of your arms gets cut off. In spite of that he didn’t lose any heart but he kept on fighting. In fact, he fought so furiously that he caused Indra to drop his thunderbolt, that’s what made him morose. So if you just knock the thunderbolt off my hand, just stop fighting there. It was like a big embarrassment for him and Vritrasura said that don’t get morose, there is no guarantee who is going to win and who is going to lose, it’s all upto Krishna, just take it up and start fighting again. Like this type of preaching, so many examples. So then Indra congratulated him that, “you are actually, I can see actually that you are a great devotee, otherwise how can a demon be glorifying how Krishna is the ultimate controller, He is the supreme decider of who is the winner and who is the looser and so on and so forth.” So in this way in the battlefield there were some Krishna katha going on, and although Indra was ready to fight, and although he was fighting he was also able to recognize that this is a devotee and so he was also praising that demon for his devotion to Krishna. So… so the devotee, the pure vaisnavas they are not envious of the sakam devotees or the demigods, even though some foolish individuals worship the demigods thinking them to be the supreme lord, that is explained by Krishna in the Bhagavat Gita, “antavat tu phalam tesam tat bhavati alpa medhasam…” that is an action performed by those having limited intelligence or small intelligence. Alpa medhasam, alpa means very small, medhasam means intelligence. So the devotees of Visnu can understand that this is foolish if they think that the demigods are supreme. The demigods themselves are always ah… looking to the Lord Krishna for their mercy, for their… for their benedictions, you see. The devotees, they don’t envy, they understand that this demigods are also devotees but they are devotees who have got some desires. Therefore they had to take birth in the material world. Any birth in the material world means, that one is a conditioned soul, of course except for those who just come to serve the Lord and to associate in His pastimes, but generally any birth in the material world means that one is a conditioned soul, whether you are a demigod or you are a human or you are an animal or a demon. So it is simply different modes under one… under which one is ah.. being governed. So demigods are normally under the mode of goodness, and the demons are under the mode of passion or ignorance but in this case Vritrasura is under the mode of pure goodness because he is a pure devotee. So even goodness can become bewildered sometimes by passion or ignorance but pure goodness is achyuta, it’s unfailable. So in spite of so much ah… difficulty Vritrasura was still determined. Indra became hatasha, he became hopeless at one point. So therefore, all of the great acharyas they tell us, they instruct us that we should simply take shelter of the Lord and causeless devotional service and pure devotional service. Bhaja hu re mana sri nanda nandana abhaya carana ravindra re Just worship, Krishna the son of Sri Nanda Maharaj and everything will be… you will become totally fearless, abhaya carana rabindra re; abhaya means fearless. So therefore devotee is not hopeless under any circumstance whether there is defeat or whether there is success or victory in some material conflict, devotee is determined to go on with devotional service, but the materialist because he wants some kind of material result, if he doesn’t get the result he become disenchanted, he become unmotivated for working any further. But the devotee is not working for some result, working for the satisfaction of Krishna, trying to get a result to offer to Krishna but whether the result comes or not the devotee is determined to go on serving Krishna. ….20.20-25...it’ just like a game, you are trying to play using it as a means to ah… try to refine devotional enthusiasm, trying to get the result for Krishna, there is no result try again better the next time, but the actual objective is to go on performing devotional service. Therefore the devotee is never ah… bewildered or never loses the determination to serve, those are the unalloyed devotees. Those devotees who are very attached to say either getting liberation or some material ah… facility, if they don’t get some result they start thinking that why should I continue in my devotional service. You can all take lessons. Vritrasura how even inspite of so many difficulties, even though he had his arm cut off, that just made him even more determined. He was going to go down and as a result of course he was always keeping Krishna fixed up in his heart, he was always working in the consciousness as an instrument of Krishna. He could see any defeat or failure or any success or victory as simply being given by the Lord. He didn’t see anything independent of the Lord, just as Lord Caitanya said in the Caitanya Caritamrita and that the devotee wherever he looks he sees Krishna, doesn’t see anything else but Krishna. Just like example was given that the foolish person thinks that, Oh! A person is born of his particular father or mother, they grow up for some time and due they devoured and they die. They are devoured by the material energy, they die in this way according to their karmas everything is going on. Then Vritrasura said that, no actually mother and father, that person, all this changes are going on. Ultimately by the direction of the supreme personality of the godhead, that everyone is acting as an instrument towards His will. One should see that, actually He is bringing people, and He is destroying people. In this way we should remain fixed up in Krishna conscious seeing Krishna’s hand in everything and everywhere. So all this are very ah… important instructions, because naturally there are so many obstacles which come up. I remember that there was ah… so many questions coming up, what will be the future, what is going to happen in some places, and then the devotees persevered, they continued on with their devotional service. Then also by Krishna’s mercy they could see that so many things started to expand. So one should take this to be the mercy of the Lord, one should remain determined to continue on with devotional service. If one becomes only habituated that if I get a good result, I will do my service enthusiastically, and if I don’t get a good result then I am not going to do my service at all, then one’s service becomes very sporadic, there is no guarantee in the material world what type of result a person is going to get for any given service. Sometimes one may give their best ah… effort, and there is a different result. Another time even without hardly trying one may get a very good result. So it’s always very difficult to see what is the plan of the Lord. The devotee goes on with devotional service just seeing the hand of the Lord acting everywhere, for instance, for example ah… this morning I wanted to ah… I did tried to finish up the ISCKON ah… letter to ISCKON handbook, but somehow one of the ah…disk carriers, one that contains all my ah… computer disk for my translation and writing work that was left in New Orleans, so I couldn’t do any work on that ah… book this morning. So then I was thinking and then I was thinking “well, after the japa …25.57… what can I write? So then I thought that let me finish the glories of nabadwip dham, the chapter that I was ah… working on and dictate on that and then on the tape. And so then Yogendra Prabhu was coming and saying that it was time to come for the ah… darshan and everything, and so I just had one paragraph left to finish in the chapter and then I thought that let me just finish it, then I will go. So then just the last paragraph we were discussing the tours of Lord Nityananda with Lor… Jiva Goswami when he was going throughout the Nabadwip Dham. After Jiva Goswami left ah… his birthplace, he went to Nabadwip dham and met with Lord Nityananda who took him around and explained the inner meaning of ah… Nabadwip Dham. This was ah… also revealed by Srila Prabhupada in ah… in the purport I read a couple of days ago Prabhupada mentioned this that how Jiva Goswami went to ah… Nabadwip and was taken by Nityananda Prabhu. So then the six chapters talking about Simanta Dwip, which is the chapter where ah… the Jaganath temple is situated in Mayapur. The history goes that ah… many years ago, so many thousand years ago there was a demon called Raktabahu and the danavas… the ah… those kind of ah… daityas, they were like ah… forest people who were taking care of Lord Jagannath… they took Lord Jagannath here… to either to ah… Nabadwip and ah… kept him there while the demon was creating so many disturbances until the demon was ah… killed by one pious ah… king. So then ah… that part of Nabadwip is known as non-different from Jagannath Puri, and it’s a very sacred place. The ah… project here had donated a little laxmi, which was ah… given for development of that new temple. Now there is a new temple which they have constructed there. So it was telling how Lord Nityananda came and explained all these ah… glories of that part of Nabadwip Dham and then how he went to the house of Kolavecha Sridhar, showed by Lord Caitanya and rest after the big… ah… the big meeting with Chand Kazi with hundreds and thousands of people and then ah… Kolavecha Sridhar came out and he greeted Lord Caitanya and ah… Jiva Goswami and worshipped Lord ah…. Nityananda and arranged for a nice prasadam feast for Them and then Lord Nityananda taken rest on a cart and then Sridhar… Kolavecha Sridhar and his family members were massaging Lord Nityananda’s lotus feet, and Lord Nityananda was taking them around, and described… of course Lord Nityananda knows first hand because ah… it is explained why.. He started explained about this one place called the Myanmara, moya mari… ah… tirtha, Moyamari tirtha is the place where there was the demon called the Moyasur. The moya asur was also created so many disturbances for the brahmanas sometimes even ah… apparently killing the brahmanas or something like that. So in Dwarka yuga when Lord Balaram, He was visiting ah… all the holy places, He also came to Nabadwip dham and one night He took rest there. So all the brahmanas approaches Him and requested Him to save them from this Maya…Moya… Moya ah… demon, Moyasur. So then Balaram became very angry to hear how some demon was ah… creating disturbances for the brahmanas. So with great force He just ran after that demon and caught up with him, so then there was a huge battle where they fought the demon and Balaram. So finally of course in the end Balaram prevailed and the demon was ah… dispatched out of this world. So that place where the demon was delivered is known as the Mayamari Tirtha or the holy ah… the place where the ah… Moya asur was ah… delivered. So all this things are being explained by Lord Nityananda and Srivas ah… Thakur to Jiva Goswami. So then after that this is all from the Puranas, that ah…. then it’s said that the confidential meaning of the ah… maya… mayamor… moyamari tirtha, this place which is just next to the Jagannath temple is in Mayapur. It’s said that it is non-different from the Talavan of Vraja dham of Krishna’s pastimes. So when I was reading that, I said that how fortunate by Krishna’s arrangement, how many times I read the Nabadwip ah… Mahatmya, glories of Nabadwip Dham, but somehow that somehow it never registered. Here I am sitting in New Talavan and I wouldn’t ordinarily be ah… translated that particular work right now, but by Krishna’s arrangement it happened, even though there were so many other failures, this that in the morning but by Krishna’s arrangement I was able to realize sitting here in New Talavan, it has more of a significance that how that part of Nabadwip dham next to the Jagannath temple is non-different from the ah… Talavan of Vrindavan, here I sitting in New Talvan blessed by Prabhupada. So I took that to be ah… very great sign by Lord Krishna and he revealed that ah… connection. Somehow the devotees from New Talavan who go to the Jagannath, they always like that and that was the only ah… specific project that this ah… temple had contributed for by name, this is that area, so I thought that it was quite significant that the devotees here will also be very glad to hear. So today in this bhagavatam sloka we see that how we should see anything that happens as Krishna’s mercy. We should just go on with the service and depend on Krishna. We see how Krishna acts in certain sublime ways. So of course for the devotees, they see these things always in Krishna’s hands, but some demon or some non-devotee will say, “well it’s always some coincidence”, or this that. They always have their own…. they don’t see anything, they don’t want to admit anything as ah… being connected with Krishna. So Krishna says, “ye yatha mam prapadyante, tams tathaiva bhajamyaham.” As we approach Him, so He reciprocates. So those demons who just say that Krishna doesn’t exist for them He doesn’t exist, but for the devotees who are seeing Krishna everywhere, for them Krishna is everywhere always helping them, always reminding them of different transcendental, always revealing more mysterious of ah… Krishna consciousness. Also took it that here because Srila Prabhupada visited the ah… New Talaban project and because ah… it was just a reminder how this ah… maybe when Prabhuapada gives a name to New Talavan surely that has so many spiritual significances. We know that of the 12 vans or forests of Vrindavan, Talavan was one of the favourite places where Krishna and Balaram would take the cows and especially they would like to eat the Tala fruit. Tal fruit means ah…this is a type of ah… it’s a very… it’s a type of ah…looks like a coconut, it’s black in colour on the outside and in India you find that there are two… two… two ways people take Tal fruit, Tal is ah… when it’s green, when it’s not ripe… that time you cut up the Tal and inside you find three… two or three ah… fruits which are just like ah… zellow. So it’s a little fruit, and all the Sandesh…. Kind of big Sandesh with one side flat, they go round, that’s made in the shape of a Tal fruit, you get those forms all the time, the… the people all over ISKCON they … 36.04-07… but they don’t know what it is, it just happens when it is in a Sandesh rup or something. So that’s a tal fruit ah… shape and ah… the unusual thing about the tal fruit is that in the centre of it there is some pocket of juice and outside it’s kind of like semi-hard, soft, jellow, so you bite into it and then the ch… juice squirts out all over your chin. (laught) The kids always come… it’s quite inexpensive, so everybody can get it, it’s only about five paisa a piece to get a piece of tal fruit. So all the children always they come up and they want to take the… that kacha… the unripe tal fruit. So one time… there is a… one place in Bengal called Chandan Nagar, where they make a type of Sandesh, which is known as tala Sandesh and there is specific ah… like when we went there, so all the… we did a preaching program, they gave us one of the sandesh and they said that the… all the big village elders were there waiting while we were going to take the Sandesh. We didn’t know what was the big thing you know, they were all watching. And then we bit into the Sandesh, it was outside very hard made just in the shape of a tal fruit, we bit into into it and then right from the centre… there… we didn’t know, there was a bunch of juice ch…. went down our chin… clapping.. “this is the secret.” The whole thing was there perfected making a hard Sandesh with a soft inside with the juice, just like the tal fruit and they are very proud of that…it was like the… their whole town member, their main thing we are famous for they can do that. How they did that it’s a secret, they wouldn’t reveal. (laughter)… It is handed down from father to the son, because unless the sandesh was hard then the liquid inside would made it soggy. So it was outside a little firm, and inside it was like a rasagulla type of juice. So anyway, this are ah… glories of dham, but ah… one other stage of tal is when it gets ripe. Then the whole tal fruit, not just that seed… that’s like a seed in the centre, the seed become hard and the whole tal fruit ah… becomes ah… dark in colour and inside becomes yellow and it has a very strong aromatic smell. That strong aromatic smell was what attracted Krishna and Balaram in Vrindavan to want to go to Talaban. It’s a very nice smell, that tal fruit and what they do is they take the tal fruit and they crush it and get the… the juice out of it, the centre juice and they mix that with the pakora batter, and they make special things which are called Tal baras, where kind of sweet parkora that we make from Tal fruit and rice flower and different ah… Besan and things. So Krishna and Balaram, they were attracted by that scent, but there was a demon who wouldn’t let by. So they had to defeat the demon so they could go into the Talavan. So like that sometimes ah… the difficulties that we have to… that have to be overcome by Krishna’s mercy. Gradually all the difficulties are ah… are overcome or sometimes there are more difficulties. Wherever there is a devotee they are simply dependent to go on with their devotional service. So here being in New Talavan, we can see that Krishna’s mercy is there. We are getting so many opportunities to serve Him and there are also so many trees and there are cows and there are devotees. And if we can try to keep the consciousness fixed on the service attitude to Krishna, that everyone trying to please Krishna, that being the only direction or the only goal than there is never any ah… defeat in any devotees spiritual life. Even though Vritrasura, he finally was ah…. defeated it seemed by Indra. Actually Vritrasura… on the other hand Vritrasura went back to Godhead. So whether there is an apparent defeat or whether there is success, for the devotee’s it’s all success. Of course a devotee, just as Vritrasura said, even though he knew that he was ultimately going to ah… be defeated physically, but he knew that if he was defeated he would go back to Godhead because he was a devotee, and if he wasn’t defeated and he was victorious… so then you are victorious , you defeated Indra. There is nothing to lose. So the devotee has got nothing to lose, everything to gain. If we continue on very enthusiastically in our devotional service… because the end result always going to be… that we will go back to Krishna, even if we are trying to get some material facility, trying to do something wonderful in this lifetime for Krishna, if we succeed, well then very nice we get the satisfaction of being able to see some very nice devotional service, some nice worship, some very nice things developed for Krishna, and somehow or another even if you are not successful, well because we have given our everything for serving Krishna, we go back to Godhead. So where is the loss? Right? The other hand, demons who are actually demons, those who are not devotees, they work very hard and if they get something material, then they are always lamenting, fearing, always worrying about losing that, and finally when they lose it at the time of death then again everything is gone- their fame, their fortune, their life, everything, again they just have to take birth in the material world from the zero point, and for their sinful reactions they may even have to take a hellish birth. So while living they can enjoy it, and when they die they lose everything. So for them there is victory at no point, even in victory there is suffering. Even they are victory for one second they feel elation and the next time they are always trying to just maintain it because they have no ah… confidence, they have no shelter from Krishna. You can see that the materialist, that their whole life is a hopeless situation, while for the devotee everything is a success. So the more that one can be fixed up in pure devotional service especially causeless devotional service than naturally one becomes fearless. Fearless doesn’t means careless, but it means that one is determined to go on with devotional service ir-regardless of what happens. Doesn’t fear that way that the materialists fear that there is going to be utter destructions, because ultimately no one can take one’s Krishna conscious away. If we want to, by our offenses, by our carelessness, we lose Krishna consciousness, that’s only our fault. It’s not no one else can come and steal it from us, unless we somehow or another allow it to happen. If somebody comes and starts gossiping, telling us things about this devotee, that devotee, this thing, that thing, and then go on listening and we get implicated in Vaisnava apraradha’s or we start seeing things from a material point of vision, and then the material desires …44.25-30... us. That put us in a weakened position, if we ourselves give up our determination by bad association or otherwise, that is the only cause but otherwise some materialist wants to come and take this… can’t steal one’s devotional service. Only by our own negligence, by prajalpa, by ah… offences, by carelessness, by not following the ah… instructions of the spiritual master we can lose devotional… our devotional jewel, but otherwise if we are very careful, if we are very careful not to commit any offenses, we are very careful not to engage in prajalpa, we are very careful to be very determined in our devotional service, we are very responsible for protecting our devotional creeper and for watering it and nurturing it, nothing outside can destroy that. You just have to keep the guard on, spiritually… for the spiritual ah… attempts, otherwise materially there is nothing that can take it away. You see, whether Haridas Thakur was put in jail, or wherever he went you couldn’t stop him, wherever he went he was preaching. He was ah… ah… unsurmountable. So that way we should try to get the licence from the great devotees so that way we can remain determined to continue with our devotional service, irregardless of what the material situation is. Trying always of course, we try, just like Vritrasura, he was trying to win. Similarly, we always try to do something, it’s not that we are impersonalists at all, we have understood material success or failure, so we know. Interested means we are not depended on success or failure for our devotional service. We are going to do service irregardless of what happens. And for that, Krishna sometimes tests us by different tests, by different failures just to see whether we are determined or whether we are just fair weather friends? And then when we have proven, that we are simply in devotional service for devotional service sake, you see. Then Krishna knows that if they get success it won’t go to their… it will be less likely to go to their head, that they can maintain their purity, they can maintain their connection with Krishna, with me, so it gives some of the mercy. Even Prabhupada had to struggle so hard. In lilamrita what he had to endure is practically impossible. A pure devote has to go through so many troubles, then naturally someone who is less pure we have to accept…accept to have so many kinds of difficulties come, but by the mercy of the previous acaryas, of Krishna, of Radha-Radha-Kanta, Nitai-Gaur, naturally, we can cross over the bewilderment that this kind of obstacles can create and remain fixed up in Krishna consciousness. So we try using our full energy, our full intelligence, our cooperation, to achieve victory for Krishna. That’s our attempt. And in trying to victory if sometimes we lose the battle we go away, we go back to the drawing board, again we try. We have nothing else to do but serve the Lord. And so He has give us… here is the… here is the opportunity, here is the game-plan, so our game, our plan is here we are trying to build the environment where people can take shelter. We are trying to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books, we are trying to protect ah… cows, we are trying to create a attractive environment for bringing in the conditioned souls, showing them an alternative, positive way of living, and more natural way. So Prabhupada has given us our task. Now it is simply us to try cooperatively to achieve success, to be victories. It’s a special mercy to get a devotional service personally from the spiritual master. So there are so many new projects that have come up all over the world, but this is a original project started by….with the blessings of Srila Prabhupad, dreamed by Srila Prabhupada. So there is something…. In the future there will be millions of projects, but how many would be personally started by the blessing of Prabhupada? So this ah… one of those rare, holy places in the wor… universe. So everyone is very fortunate. Even… Even now, in America there are so many… a few farm projects here, but ah… I don’t think that Prabhupada ah… had went to all of them. He went to New Vrindavan, Gita Nagari, New Talavan. Didn’t go to all of the projects. So this is a very great opportunity that we have to serve a project specifically blessed by Srila Prabhupada. Jay Shri Krishna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Prabhu Nityannada Sriadvaita Gadadhara Srivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Any questions? No questions? Lady: Srila Acharyapada, JPS: When the purpose of saving ah… changing the service is not to increase your devotional service. When the purpose is not to satisfy Guru and Krishna more. Then it’s maya. Any other questions? Lady : You are saying that ah… there are some devotees who have material desires and there are some devotees who have pure spiritual service. So what about devotees in ISKCON who may not have sinful desires but desires like for children or you know, things like that. Is not that material desires? JPS: Sometimes there are basically material desires, which devotees have. They are able to dovetail those desires in a Krishna conscious way, because ah… it is said in Kali Yuga that you get the results from acting, in other ages simply by thinking you get the result. So if someone does the action, in such a way that it’s a devotional service, just like ah… then ah… one doesn’t get any kind of material reactions. For instance basically the desire to have children in general is considered a material desire. In some cases such desire might be inspired by Krishna. If He wants have a good… a great devotee ah… appear in the world, so He inspires those desires. Then if a person… it’s hard to distinguish that ah… but there is nothing unnatural about that desires. And just like people have desires to eat. Desire to eat is a material desire, but we have material bodies. So long you have the desire to eat, but we eat prasadam, so similarly you have a material body, it’s natural to have a desire to have children, then we try to have Krishna conscious children, and we try to do that according to the ah… system given by the scriptures and by the sastras, by the spiritual master, so therefore those activities become purified. But just like today is ekadasi, we don’t take any grains because even eating… we shouldn’t be attached to eating for eating’s sake. We have to eat, but we should be detached from even eating. So sometimes we fast on sacred days, so that we don’t… we can give our full attention to just to chanting and to purely transcendental things. Of course when we do it, we eat prasadam, and that’s also transcendental because this is Krishna. So this basic things like sleeping, eating, mating, defending, these are the different things that are part of material life, you can’t avoid them. So they have to be done in a Krishna conscious way. So that one’s attachment remains fixed in Krishna. Then there are other things which are the embellishments, which are kind of the luxuries, and ah… any of these activities or other luxury if they… if they go beyond ah… the necessity of devotional service. It is sometimes said… have you heard of the statement over-endeavour? If something is an over-endeavour, that means that it is very simple to have one thing, you try very hard to get something, you work so hard that you have no extra comfort, just like in the material world sometimes you see people work so hard day and night, .I was just in Hawai …..57.05-12 …….for years together, to get their Hawai vacation. They go to Hawai and then sometimes it rains for one week straight at Hawai, because it’s a tropical place, sometimes like if like some monsoon comes, it rains. There are some devotee’s there had a… making a preaching centre at a 33rd floor of this building and looked down, there is a very big drop and said, isn’t it dangerous? He said, “Well not usually for the devotees but ah… sometimes when the tourists come here they save up for so many years, if it raining for one week or 10 days straight they get so frustrated that they work so hard for their vacation……it was always raining that they just jump out of the window. So this you know you call a over-endevour. Actually we don’t… real happiness we get from the simple things of Krishna consciousness. We don’t have to take some vacation somewhere to become happy, that’s kind of the material illusion. Rather for the devotees they can get happiness at every step, sukham kortumum dayam, purnmrita swadhanam pratipadam purnmrita swadhanam, taste the full nectar at every step, but when we think that the only way we can be happy is when I have this material thing or that material thing or this… then we should know that we have to be careful because if we… if we start focussing too much on those external things for our happiness, we can lose sight of Krishna, and this way get wound up in that big endeavour which is known as material…quest for material happiness. When we fix our Krishna consciousness, sometimes naturally some desires come, just like eating or some other natural desires are there and sometimes if Krishna arranges such a way, just like somehow or another you get prasadam, it happens… somehow or another different things happen, somehow or another… sometimes people do devotional service and it seems that for their particular situation, they are more suited to serve Krishna in the grihasta ashram. So then sometimes that in a natural way that also develops and people get ah… into grihasha ashram, they have children, those things naturally also happen, but the point is that when one has to always be very determined to do everything in such a way that Krishna is pleased by it. And as soon as one leaves aside Krishna and does something for sense gratification without ah… trying to keep Krishna pleased, then one gets ah… very ah… entangled. Of course entering into grihastha ah… life, or having children is also a kind of a risk. One can get very attached to family and children and that attachment, if it is… if one doesn’t keep up very strictly with devotional practices, with devotional service, that attachment can grow beyond what it should be, for a devotee, and that could be a cause for taking a future birth. If one leaves the body in a very attached state, but normally therefore in the other sampradayas… like the mayavadis sampradaya, they thing that unless you take sanyas you can’t get liberation. But in our vaisnava sampradaya, we say “no… grhe thako bane thako, sada hari bole dako” Even as a grihastha, a person can achieve liberation, even though there are so many opportunities for attachment, if they are very strict about regularly chanting, performing their devotional service and ah… remaining very firmly in Krishna consciousness, but there are some risks, you should be aware of that. When Lord Caitanya Caitanya, told the grihastha devotees, He told them… They kept asking them, what is for us, what is the most important thing? He said, “the most important thing is to do sankirtan.” They kept pressing again and… you know they kept asking on occasion, then Krishna ah… Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that you should ah… asat sanga tyago ai vaisnava achar, ah… Krishna bhakta eka sadhu, stri sangi aar.. stri sangi ek sadhu Krishna bhakta aar” That he advised them that you have to avoid the association of non-devotees, that it is described who are the non-devotees. That those who are simply woman-hunters, those who are just after woman for sense gratification, and those who are non-devotees, those are the two type of people that Lord Caitanya advised staying from. Those who simply want sense gratification from sex, and those who are simply after ah… who are not devotees, who are against devotional service, these two type of people are detrimental. Otherwise Prabhupada and all the acharyas say that we have to be realistic and for specific people different situations of life are more suitable. The grihastha or sanyas. In general the grihasta situation is more secure for practicing devotional service for this age, and one has to be realistic about the pros and cons about of that spe… spe… of that particular ashram. If one is very careful, one can go back to Godhead. One has to still be careful. There is nothing that doesn’t require care. When you are here in a battle… we are in a battle till we get back to the Godhead we are in a battle. Even you are sheltered by associates of the devotees, by the spiritual master, by the temple we should never become careless and forget that even though we are in this kind of shelter situation, nonetheless we are still on a battlefield and Maya is always ready to take advantage if we become weak or careless. So we have to be also the guardian of our devotional jewel and see that whatever desire we may… may come up, that if it something which is totally ah… bad we should renounce it, like breaking the principles, and if it is something which is dovetailable, something which we ah… we can engage in Krishna’s service, then we should ah… authorize, we should dovetail that in ah… Krishna’s service. So sometimes a devotee has a desire to have a child, and ah… then sometimes they ask the spiritual master for permission or for confirming, this is ah… realistic desire, this is something which is alright. That happened with a devotee called Caitanya Das, and his wife called Padmavati, her name was Satyavati, maybe Visnupriya… his wife was Visnupriya… Laxmipriya… she was also Laxmipriya. And Lord Caitanya said, “Yes, your desire is inspired by Krishna, because you are going to be the parents of the great devotee Srinivas Acharya. I want you to go back and have this child.” And ah… they named the child Srinivas and he was a great acharya. So sometimes the desire might be inspired. Doesn’t mean that every time it’s inspired, so then sometimes it’s complete. In any case even if one has a natural desire like that… I think that I have explained the depth about it, how it has to be dovetailed, we have to always be careful, and if we are a little careful, just like Prabhupada said, “devotional service is like… of course in ekadasi we don’t shave…men… it’s sharp as the rajors edge, we have to be very careful.” If you are careless, we cut ourselves. So in this age whether you are a grihastha, whether you are a brahmachari, whether you are a vanaprasathi or a sanyasi, you have to be careful at all different ah… levels till you get back home back to home back to Godhead. Then you are in Vaikuntha, there is no anxiety, there is no problem there, until then you have to be careful. Yes. Question: Sometimes it appears that we have understood…10.08.10-18…. Sometimes it appears that we are devotees…. We know that we should avoid the association of non-devotees… sense gratification, we know… this is the way I am……. Is that actually true or not true…. JPS: Srila Prabhupada explained that ah… you get your material sufferings or enjoyments according to your material pious results or pious results of your fruitive ah… reactions but devotional service is not dependent on that. Devotional service infact can only come by your specific determined effort to be Krishna conscious. Unless someone tries to be Krishna conscious, unless they make an effort, unless they have that desire at least then they can proceed. It’s not that by just sticking it on the material world, after 10 million births you automatically get Krishna consciousness. That’s why we are described as nitya badhas, eternally conditioned. If we eternally never make any effort, never lift the finger to be Krishna conscious, we can stay here for ever. Material universe is created and annihilated, created and annihilated, created and annihilated, we are one of the unlimited badha jivas, nitya badhas, coming and going, coming and going again and again, never seeing that spiritual world, never realizing our spiritual existence. That’s why it’s described, Brahmanda brahmite kono bhagyavan jiva… brahmanda means wondering… Brahmanda brahmite means wondering from one brahmanda, one brahman universe to the next. So one brahma universe… one entire 14 planetary system ah… universe as we know is totally encased by ten layers of material energy. That means that as long as we are in this universe, until we achieve liberation nobody gets out, unless by chance you get liberated by Krishna’s mercy. Apart from that everyone is stuck for the entire lifetime of Lord Brahma in this universe. You can go up to Indra loka or you can go to hell or whatever but you are within this universe. At the end of this lifetime when the material world is wound up and you go back in mahavisnu, then next time when there is a new Brahma then you get into a new universe. So when you decide when in this verse, inner meaning of it, brahmanda brahmite… wondering from one universe to next means that we are in the material world for lifetimes of Lord Brahma, for total creations, not just kalpas but entire lives of Lord Brahma… and wondering in this way for total creation in the material world, going back in the maha-vishnu and then again recreated by the new universe and like that…. How long you have been here, you can’t put any time on it, or how long we are going to be here? But brahmanda brahmite kono bhagyavan jiva, some rare soul by some great, good fortune… we get the seed of devotional service ah… brahmanda brahmite kono bhagyavan jiva guru Krishna…by the mercy of guru and Krishna, kono bhagyavan jiva, guru Krishna prasade pay, by their mercy we get bhakti lata bij, we get the seed of devotional service, that seed didn’t come by karma, it came by the Prasad, by the mercy of guru and Krishna. So when we get that seed, that’s our path, that’s our ticket to get out of the material world, that’s our means, but when we get the seed we have to water the seed, we have to care for the plant, we have to… Lord Caitanya described, we have to continue watering it until it grows and grows and crosses out of the material universe, goes beyond Siva Dham, goes beyond the impersonal ah… brahmajyoti, vaikuntha, until it reaches the lotus feet of Radha, Radha Kanta. There it gets intertwined in Their lotus feet, and then flowers and fruits started to manifest… fruits and flowers of prema bhava. Then at that time one achieves perfection. So just when we have the seed of devotional service and may be it’s just started to sprout or it’s sprouted and it is just a plant like that, ah… even if’s you know…20-30 feet up, it’s got a long way to go. If somebody thinks that alright I got a 10 feet tree here now, now I can just ah… neglect on watering it for a while what is going to happen, Lord Caitanya said you are going to get so many weeds. 10 feet, what’s 10 feet, you have to go not 10 miles… not 10 million miles, you have to go not even 10 million light years, you have to go right to the spiritual world. It took just to go to Visnu loka in this universe, it took Durvasa muni one year at the speed of the mind, so what to speak of how many… if you put the distance on it, of course spiritually you can reach it in one moment. Therefore we have to spiritually water our creeper, then it can grow very fast. If you neglect that, thinking ourselves to be advanced, then even though… no matter how big the creeper may be, it can be chopped down by offences until the creeper reaches Krishna’s lotus feet it’s not… the battle is not over. Just like Chanakya said that if there is a fire in the house… so some things you have to deal with immediately. Fire in the house, disease in the body, deaths. So that’s a normal moral instruction. In this case we have a spiritual disease, just like I was walking at Calcutta and we were looking at some temple, old temple… one man wanted to give….we went into this real back area, there was the gali … they call it Gali …1.15.36-37, Bhaganmrita and I like… it’s like real horrible little shanty town like places, sewers, open sewers and things. Somehow I was walking and there was a little path over the sewer, and I just stepped on it… and one big stone and somehow the stone was loose, and it swung up and my foot cut right into the open sewer – it has things which we don’t mention before the deities, and the stone scraped my foot till blood came out. So that’s got ever you know if you want to get culture germ warfare or something, it was there. So naturally, immediately within two hours it was infected, it didn’t take any time. So by constant application of medication and different ah… things, and keeping bandage on it, it was almost cured. Just a little bit of it was left. Then I had to go to Bangladesh or something and somehow I didn’t… wasn’t able to put a bandage. Just by going say for one day without, putting again, it came back another 50%. Just because there was still… little bit of infection there, wasn’t fully cured it could come back. But again you had put the things, and then finally it was totally gone… it was gone. So like that disease means you have to totally finish it up, if you don’t totally finish it it will always come back again. So we have to not just think that I have been doing devotional service 10 years now, we have been in material world more than 10 creations, more than 10 lives of Brahma, billions and billions years, what is 10 years, it is nothing, or 15 years or 20 years or even a few 50 years. We are not here ah… trying to get seniority on our pension plan or something, we are trying to completely purify the last trace of the disease. If in this lifetime we can completely eradicate every trace of material disease, then we can taste nectar right then, even as we approach it we will be tasting nectar, and as soon as we are careless we can come up again. So actually …1.18.10-14… someone is practicing only for a few decades, then they become careless. In one second if you completely surrender to Krishna, just like Dhruva maharaj he did in five months, he got realized Krishna, or like Katwanga Maharaj, in one moment he totally surrendered, doesn’t take a long time if you totally eradicate the disease, then from then on once you get your swarupa upalabdhi, you realize your siddha deha, you realize Krishna, you see simultaneously the material and spiritual worlds, you see the three modes, you are transcendental, you see Krishna constantly in your heart, you see Him everywhere, His transcendental form- sac-cid-ananda vigraha, when you have reached that stage then you don’t have to be worried about being careful or careless because you are already transcendental to the three modes, you can’t act materially, it’s totally out of your capacity you see ah…. Spontaneously you will be here, you be a nitya mukta. If you want to fall down, you have to do it by some specific intent; it won’t be a spontaneous thing. In the material world spontaneously the inclination is to be in maya but by specific intent we are being Krishna consciousness and gradually we become purified until we come to spontaneous devotional service. At that point it is very natural for us to remain in a Krishna conscious state, when we are totally purified then we are liberated even while in this body. Even while we are practicing we are liberated while we in this body, but if we are not practicing then we could again fall down. So therefore we have to be very careful. It’s not that this is my nature is to be fallen. That might be one’s nature, it is everyone’s nature to be fallen, for some people they will be more in the modes, but when a person gives up trying to become purified then there is no glory in it. If one’s nature is to be fallen but still he is trying or she is trying, whoever it may be is trying to be Krishna conscious… that’s glorious, and for their effort Krishna will bless them. The Vaisnavas mercy will be given. When someone stops, throws in the towel, just like ah… just like when some… America loves these wrestling matches and boxing matches and everything, they have some big turn in there, and they are out there fighting right? If one guy got a good pum punch in the belly… said ah…people would practically you know they would spit on the guy. So when he goes out there and he gets his brains mashed in and his blood coming down and he struggles to get up… one, two, three… somehow gets up, …….everyone… they are all are cheering right, some glory is there… even though the context in not… that’s a kind of ksatriya kind of thing, well! We are in a battle. Some say that it’s my nature to be fallen, my nature to be defeated, I can’t do anything. No glories. Anyway the person says that it is my nature to be blind, but I know that by Krishna’s mercy, by guru’s mercy, if I… if I just stick it out, if I just try, if I somehow or another try to chant, if I somehow or another try to be Krishna conscious, if I just keep on the effort, even If I stumble and trip, if I get up and just keep on trying, somehow or another that I can hope to get their mercy in the future, that is glorious. Krishna becomes attracted by such ah… determination. That’s what Vritrasura saying to Indra. What’s the… Indra gets his thing knocked out of his hands, he thought it’s and embarrassment, what’s the use of fighting, right? Vritrasura is saying, “What’s wrong with you? You are supposed to be the Indradeva, you are supposed to know about the transcendental science. Don’t you know that by providence Krishna is the controller of everything, whether you win or lose is not the point, the point is just to fight, just to do your devotional service, pick up your… your thunderbolt, get back in the fray…. get back in the fight.” You see… someone is a devotee, they take initiation, they are surrendering to Krishna, they should know that. It’s everyone’s nature, someone people may be more because they are more in the modes than others, they may have less spiritual assets. Still just… the only glory is to keep on trying to be Krishna consciousness. Once they say it is a too difficult, then they have admitted defeat, then if somebody decided that he doesn’t want to leave the material world then what can you do? Rupa Goswami said that if someone has made a determined decision that he wants to simply remain in material sense… in the material world, in material sense gratification, he said then private discussions, small group discussions or big public lecture, nothing is going to change that person around. Because they have already decided, they might put up some defeatist attitude or put up some …1.23.56-58… “Oh I don’t like those devotees… personality problem, this that ….they may put up some excuse so that they live with themselves but the bottom line is what? They are not going often and practicing devotional service by themselves because they don’t like the devotees, so they are doing it by themselves. The first thing that you will do is put on maybe a show for few days, and then go right into sense gratification, next time we see him, they are drinking or intoxicating or they are falling down or doing something else, and they just… they absorb in their material affairs, they are not able to maintain. They criticize devotee, this devotee is that, as soon as they leave association of devotees, who is able to maintain their devotional service at a very high level? Very rare, very rare, you don’t… you don’t see it at all. Those who are inimical with devotees. So therefore we have to be careful against the mind, against this kind of obstacles. We are not in it for winning or losing materially, even if we go our whole life… if we are not able to… in our own consciousness ah… see Krishna face to face, but we just go on just trying to be Krishna consciousness, even then Prabhupada says, you can go you know… even you are… even if you try your whole life, you are guaranteed success just by trying. As soon as the person throws in the towel, saying that I don’t want to try anymore, but Prabhupada said, “It’s just like those geese flying… they fly down the Mississippi, and to ah… then they fly back to Canada, somebody along the way… someone doesn’t want to fly anymore, what can the other geese do? Come on, come on! One just flops down on the ground and the fox eats it, that’s it… jackal food… So we are all heading back to Godhead.