19850427 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 7.2.46

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on April 27, 1985 in Los Angeles, California. The class begins with the reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 7th Canto, Chapter 2, Verse 46.

Translation: The five material elements, the ten senses and the mind all combine to form the various parts of the gross and subtle bodies. The living entity comes in contact with his material bodies, whether high or low, and later gives them up by his personal prowess. This strength can be perceived in a living entity’s personal power to possess different types of bodies.

*Translation with repetition*

Purport: The conditioned soul has knowledge, and if he wants to fully utilize the gross and subtle bodies for his real advancement in life, he can do so. It is therefore said here that by his high intelligence (svena tejasā), by the superior power of superior knowledge achieved from the right source — the spiritual master, or ācārya — he can give up his conditional life in a material body and return home, back to Godhead. However, if he wants to keep himself in the darkness of this material world, he can do so. The Lord confirms this as follows in Bhagavad-gītā (9.25):

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino ’pi mām

“Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.”

The human form of body is valuable. One can use this body to go to the higher planetary systems, to Pitṛloka, or he can remain in this lower planetary system, but if one tries he can also return home, back to Godhead. This prowess is given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the Supersoul. Therefore, the Lord says, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: “From Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.” If one wants to receive real knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one can become free from bondage to repeated acceptance of material bodies. If one takes to the devotional service of the Lord and surrenders unto Him, the Lord is prepared to give one directions by which to return home, back to Godhead, but if one foolishly wants to keep himself in darkness, he can continue in a life of material existence.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta translation and the purport of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, Canto 7, Chapter 2, Text 46 in the matter of “Hiranyakaśipu, King of the demons”.

Jayapataka Swami: Yamarāja is speaking, how the living entity has the power to accept different bodies. The different bodies that one accepts offer different facilities for enjoyment, different… that we had heard so many times. And in the human form of body we can guide ourselves, in which direction, what type of body we want to take in the next life. In fact, whether you know or not, whatever we are doing in the human form of life will dictate our future body. This is known as the karma-kṣetra, or the place the field of activities where we build up our karmas, and then accordingly we will take different births and work off those reactions.

In the animal species, they are working off various reactions, they are not able to produce a new karma, but rather they are suffering or enjoying the reactions of their previous activities. So, when the respons…, when the reason, intelligence is given in the platform of human life, where one can distinguish between good, bad, ignorance, passionate, and one can distinguish between various directions, with that comes the responsibility for everything that we are doing.

So, we saw just in the world-fare in Japan, they are showing how in the future, they are going to have cars that can go off the road and fly here and there, you can go anywhere. But if you were to give such a car to some kind of maniac then he could drive it anywhere, in your living room window, you can end up with people in one set of just running off in the road, they will be flying overhead, they can just you know, they could land on anywhere. So obviously, the more ability you have to move, then you have also responsibility to know how to drive and where to go.

So as the human being, we have the ability that we can take birth in the higher planetary systems deva-loka or we can again regress back into the animal kingdom which is considered to be the greatest failure of human life. Or we can wander about within the various human species. So, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He said that by this sankirtan movement, He wants to, He can save all of the people from old age and death. By this process of saṅkīrtana, people can be saved from this repetition of birth and death, they can be saved from old age. Despite of all of… Listening to one of Śrīla Prabhupāda tapes…

They may offer so many things in the modern world, but what they don't have it any solution for old age or for death. Death is still 100 percent assured for everyone. So, one cannot achieve, even though we can change our bodies until we get free from the subtle body, the Mano buddhī ahankāra - the mind, intelligence and false ego, we are subjected again and again to take repeated birth. And the process given to achieve freedom from the subtle body is actually the bhakti yoga. By the process of devotional service, we can transcend the subtle body.

iha yasya harer dasye karmana manasa gira
nikhilasv apy avasthasu jivan-muktah sa ucyate
(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.187)

By engaging our thoughts, our words, our activities in the service of Kṛṣṇa, in this life even, we are, if we can do that fully, we are considered to be liberated, even while living. jīvan-muktah sa ucyate. So, it is a very great opportunity. But unfortunately, the people in the world are being deprive of that opportunity. Due to the rampant progress of material advancement, people especially in developing countries, they are largely enamored and even in the developed countries, they are pretty much bewildered and they, at the present time, many people of course, they really feel that we have achieved.

At least, we saw like in Japan, they really wanted to show that, now we have achieved the pyramid. Technology has taken us from the cavemen, they made a whole imitation of EPCOT and they wanted to show there that we all came from the Big Bang. We have all evolved and now we have come up and the human brain is the topmost thing. There is nothing, there is no other known life on any other planet, that we know it. Their description is, “The way we know life”. They are very expert in presenting something and then they put in a little footnote which people don't pick it up usually. They don’t really know they are just presenting a theory. In the booklet, they say, this is science fiction. This is the theory; this is an artist conception. But when they present it to the people, the presentation is this, it is real. This is where it is at, this is how it has happened. We have come from the SOUP. They show pictures of volcanos and things and then now here we are, we have evolved with the top entity, wear it and we are going higher and higher and there is no limit. And buy lot of new cars and enjoy life.

So, I think in America to some extent people have, like Prabhupāda said that well, he was asked by… In a Beijing he gave an interview that why did he go to America? “Well, I saw that in India after receiving independence, they were, after thousand years of foreign rule, they all are eager for economic development and no one wanted to hear about spiritual life. But I thought that if I went to America, there, before, they have been enjoying for enough time. They had enough material advancement that some of them may have already been enjoyed out. They are looking now for renunciation. They may be looking for some kind of spiritual solution to their problems, seeing that the material solutions are not going to be effective.”

So actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted that, he was hoping that the Americans, since they are most advanced in technology, since, they have got it before everyone else, so similarly, they will be the first to be fried out or they will be the first to come to their senses that this doesn’t hold the total solution. And it seems to be even a kind of a revival of spiritual consciousness. But, just a type of spiritual revival or even a just a frustration of a materialism is in itself is not sufficient. But people have to actually have something to dig their teeth into. Something, which can solve or answer the questions which arise, and which give the answers, in such a way that they can be applied in everyday life.

So, we see that how the need, that there is actually like an at war level and on one hand, the big material powers that be, they are trying to keep the people, to educate them, more and more in this type of materialistic concept of life. They don't offer any alternative. They don't indicate that any alternative exists. They are just gobbling up book lines, and thinkers they will say the theories given by the previous scientists, even though the scientists are now coming up with the puddles and they are coming up with amendments but people are slow to catch on to those.

So, the solution we only can see is actually Śrīla Prabhupāda books, that his books have to be given to people and there has to be program where people can practice the teachings in his books, in a very easily assimilable way so that the mass of people can start to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness more and more. Otherwise what is their hope? Unless they are freed from this mental, intellectual conceptions of life, unless they are brought up to the spiritual concept of life, they are always be bounced about by these various speculations on the material platform. They’ll never have any peace; they will never have any shelter.

So, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He could see that people are suffering from lack of knowing Kṛṣṇa. That is one thing which nobody can say, nobody knows who set the Bang off. As Prabhupad said, no one knows what the ultimate origin was. No one even knows what is the very… They skip over the basic things, and what is life that we are living. They just give some distinct theories, which can't be proven, because they are totally, millions and billions of years ago. So, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. They present that as the absolute truth, and who is going to come up and show and disapprove that. But people are still going old, they are still dying, they are still suffering all, various types of problems, it doesn't really solve anything. So, in all these forests of material words, where is the solution? So amongst all these forests of material words, there is a transcendental name.

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

And, if people start to vibrate the transcendental names, then their consciousness becomes purified. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabu, His process was to get everyone to chant the holy name. That was the basic process.

When He would walk through Navadvīpa with all of His associates, one time, for instance, He was walking to Navadvīpa and Māyāpur, and there, even in those days, there were bunch of drunks sitting in one side of the road, wines or whatever they drink, they usually drink this palm tree wine and it makes them little giddy. It is kind of low alcohol content, but they really get, not that low, but they get pretty crazy, but they don't get totally put to sleep right away, so they are all talkative. So, as Lord Caitanya is going by, they started to make comments. “Hey, look at, you know, here is Gaura Hari, here He comes, there is Gaura Hari - the dancing golden, golden one.” Someone else said, “Wow, you should see the way He dances.” And then he puts out a little act showing you know, raising his hands.

Lord Caitanya just goes by with His associates until few of them till take it up, they go behind Lord Caitanya's group and they start raising their chair hands and going Haribol Haribol, making a little mock dance Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya doesn't say anything so His associates they just go on. And, the drunkards had a little fun and then they get distracted because they are drunks and they go off and do their own thing again. The devotees are all in anxiety that, why didn’t Lord Caitanya do something, why didn’t He stop them, it's offensive, they weren't very seriously chanting, you know, so many doubts they have come up in their mind, different people thinking different things. So Lord Caitanya could sense their inquisitive state of consciousness and he told them to stop.

So these people, so, they are drunk, the effect of alcohol will last for one day. Somehow or other they chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa that effect will stay with them eternally. So, somehow or another even if people are not pure when they are chanting, still they are getting some spiritual benefit. Obviously, they are not going to be able to experience the higher bhavas of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, while they are in a materially contaminated consciousness. Still they get spiritual benefit which should be as a sukṛti, an asset which will accrue and accrue until eventually they be able to take up in a more full way pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Caitanya mahaprabu, He encouraged everyone to take up this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śrīla Prabhupāda when he came to the west, naturally he kept saying that, I am very old, I am not going to be here, and he wanted to establish brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas are the teachers, the preachers and he said that he wanted to establish varṇāśrama in the society with a long-range plan. But, to start varṇāśrama the missing link is brāhmaṇas, those who will teach others. We have to start from the brāhmaṇas, from those who are the preachers, from the Vaiṣṇava preachers of the Lord, to produce some pure devotees, and to someone who, devotees who would carry on his mission. Then, as he is leaving, he said, I have done half the work. The remaining half is varṇāśrama. That means that the whole society even those who are impure, even those who have bad habits. Varṇāśrama means there is four or even below that, you see. But they all accept Kṛṣṇa, you see.

veda 'mukhe' māne veda-niṣiddha pāpa kare dharma nāhi gaṇe (Cc Madhya 2.19.146). Lord Caitanya said the lowest stratum of the Vedic culture are those who by lip, they say, I believe in Kṛṣṇa, I believe in Vedic culture. But they are saying by mouth, practically they are not able to do it. They are making so many offences. They are committing so many sinful activities. But He considered them within the Vedic, considered them human beings. At least by their lip they were accepting, that they accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even though, He said that the vast majority of them, they don't follow, then, beyond those are those who are practicing, but they want material comfort. Beyond those who are practicing, they want liberation and then finally comes those who want pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are the rarest of all. So, Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave a very basic program.

Prabhupāda came and showed how this can be practiced in the west, he created or he attracted so many souls and purified them. In this way, made them pure devotees of the Lord, uncovered their  other so many coverings on them so that their desire to serve Kṛṣṇa became manifested. This is the actual thing that has to be uncovered. There are so many layers. And the final layer is that state which is the pure state where we want to serve Kṛṣṇa. When that desire comes then we are in touch with the Supersoul in the most intimate way, when our desire is to pray to the Deity, to pray to the Supersoul to engage us in the service of spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa.

So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu had this basic program. He only wrote eight verses, the Śikṣāṣṭakam. Rest of the time He kept everyone busy chanting. Of course, to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness so many literatures are needed, you see. But to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness in a broader varṇāśrama sense, people have to be trained up, but the basic thing is that first they have to engage to chant somehow or another.

Now, in this, with this simple faith in the holy name, in India and different parts of the world, we have been embarking on a program of just trying to encourage people somehow or another to chant. Regardless of their other habits, whether they are vegetarian or non-vegetarian, as they say ‘non-veg’, whether they are pure or impure, to get everyone to chant, and then to eulogize the benefits of pure chanting. But, first get them to be attracted or habituated in chanting. Even in India, you would be surprised, that most of the people do not chant. They don't have that habit. And, we got so many remarkable-remarkable results just from this chanting. In fact, all kinds of result. Some of this published a book of people writing in, what were the effects they got from chanting, mental, physical, spiritual and you can have fantastic collection, so would impress people of all mentalities.

On first instance, in Orissa, I was giving out this card to request everyone to chant and at least, 108 times, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just because Lord Caitanya said to Lord Nityananda:

śuno śuno nityānanda, śuno haridāsa
sarvatra āmāra ājñā karaho prakāśa
prati ghare ghare giyā koro ei bhikṣā
bolo `kṛṣṇa', bhajo kṛṣṇa, koro kṛṣṇa-sīkṣā
(Caitanya-bhāgavata Madhya-khaṇḍa 13.8-9)

Listen Nityānanda, listen Haridāsa, this is My order, you take it from door to door and beg the people to take up this instruction of Mine. They should chant the name of Kṛṣṇa, bolo Kṛṣṇa bhajo Kṛṣṇa. They should worship the Supreme personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, koro Kṛṣṇa siksa and they should read the Bhagavad-Gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the books which contain the teachings of Lord Kṛṣṇa. You go and you beg the people to take up this program.

So, since this order is being handed down in the disciplic succession, so we are going and begging the people. And in India, it is very amazing because normally all the sannyāsīs, they got a big profile, they give āśirvāda and people come out and they will ask, give me this, give me that. So that said, we are begging please take up this chanting. So generally, people they saw, sannyāsi is begging, they are asking to give one portion of the day for chanting, who can refuse, so many people, they accept to do that. So in this way, once they start, even we say, just to make it easy, we say ten minutes. 108 times takes about eight minutes to chant a round, try it out, this is the beginning there is no limit. When I say, we just as a beginning, why not try for this amount, you have to tell them something. When normally as they do one, no body stands to one, they do four. Then they do four, why not do more they do eight, so many people will come up with sixteen or eight or six rounds a day.

I was there, I came out for the Nityānanda Trayodaśī festival, I came to Bhubaneshwar. And it was surprising that, one man came up to me and bowed on the ground and started rolling and everything and paying his obeisances. I asked, what's going on? He said, “You saved me. One year ago, you came, and you asked me to chant. I took the card from you.” And he showed his fingers, like this, he said, “I was a leper, now I am cured”. This is not, this is nothing. The real cure is, you will get, you go back to Godhead. That’s the real cure, and this physical disease is insignificant. “No, now I have faith and saved, now I am chanting sixteen rounds, if you can cure this disease then you can also cure my material disease, my spiritual disease.” So I said, anyway, Kṛṣṇa's holy name is unlimited. You heard about these things in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta.

Anyway, about a half hour later all this happened, half hour later another man came. He was wearing socks. Nobody wears socks in the middle of summer. He was wearing socks, he bows down, “you saved me”. He pulled up his socks, he had no toes. He said, “One year ago, you gave this card, I was a leper. Now it is negative. Don’t worry, now it is negative. I was tested, it is no longer positive, negative. Now I am cured. Now I am chanting sixteen rounds.” (Laughter) two in one day, (laughter). And, they are chanting. They are…

Of course, because I… Recently there are lot of leprosies and you don't have too many lepers in America. Even if they have, they probably don't admit it. In fact, people they have these horrible diseases now. Huh even curable ones, they didn’t want to mention. The only hope for us is that, they would chant. In any case, the point is that somehow or another, if people take up the chanting, I know in India, for instance one temple president, he specifically when the drunks would come around, different people in South India, there are lot of Christian converts, they are drunken all of the time, he gets them to chant and everything and Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya prabhu Nityānanda, again and again and just by chanting that mantras, after few days they give it up. Some of them, they go back to… they become and their whole family become very thankful and they become devotees.

So we found such a great response from just getting everyone to chant. The thing is that, it's so easy in India and this… this… even in South America, we have a pretty good, we had very good response by asking. I would ask, so we got some good response in India, so I thought let me try South America, and then we had big program, so I request everyone. In fact, we had those same cards printed up in South America. I would ask all the people to start chanting. At the end of the big lecture, I asked, “Who can give a few minutes a day for this meditation?” And so many people raised their hand. We give them the certificate and we appreciated them very much. We are not there to cure their material diseases. But that's not our purpose. Many people come up stay the kīrtana with material desires, and they become devotees, and that's really our purpose.

So, now the big apple, of course is, how to get the North Americans to take up chanting, so that when they read Prabhupāda books, some of them enter into their fixed outs and they will be able to guide the rest of the world among the more spiritual course. And I think that, here in Los Angeles, surely, some of this fertile spiritualized imagination to think of so many ways, how to induce the Americans to take up the chanting of the holy name. I don’t have, just like a, just want to do something and never think of how… I said well nice… I don’t know any other way and spending all my time in the way…. try the same way, see what happens to the Americans. So, I gave my thought and requested everyone to take up chanting, who can give some of their time. I saw, I wasn't getting so many responses until it was challenged. We challenged everyone, “We dare you want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa for 10 minutes a day, who can chant and not achieve some results, some spiritual result, we will give you your money back.” (Audience laugh) We challenged. We would admit the… you know. So, then we asked the people, raise the hand, who will chant, who will start? That was very intense you know. Nobody raised their hand; you know, and it’s tough. So just to say, basically talking a little bit, shhhh… I got myself on this one. And then all of a sudden few people started coming for, I got twenty people signed up, I could not believe it. Just out of the public showing up. Most of them were young people, few, just you know, Latins and few just regular Americans you know they came up and alright it is challenging. I don't think it is the best approach necessarily in America, but, few people came forward and I thought that in America you cannot have sign, they do not want to sign the name, they have just, what do you call it, postage prepaid stamp under it. Chant first and then if you like it, then you fill it and sign it in. Americanized, no obligation.

Anyway, whether this way or that way, the point is, somehow or another, if we get the people to chant, just wanted to reiterate that point. And some people will chant by taking prasāda, some would chant by reading, and some would chant by personal request, and some would chant by association, somehow or another, if people would chant then they gradually get purified. And the more we have our faith in the holy name, and the power of holy name, we can see that, that is the actual thing that will change the world. That's the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa and Śrīla Prabhupāda books.

Lord Caitanya said three - chanting, worshiping and kṛṣṇa-śikṣā - Prabhupāda books,teachings of Kṛṣṇa. We have mainly our basic program. We have our program. We have to train the first class preachers who follow brahminical culture, they follow the four regulative principles, they chant 16 rounds, they are pure, unless you are pure, purity is the force, one cannot preach, that's the fact. Anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and gradually by that they will be able to go back to Kṛṣṇa. Eventually they may become pure enough to preach or they will be pure enough to practice and assist the preachers, then contribute and be a big congregation.

But, Prabhupāda wanted us to create that type of, what he said varṇāśrama. He said that, “People will not be pure in their habits, but they’ll believe in Kṛṣṇa and they will chant. And gradually once you bring them up to the pure level, once you eradicate by chanting then they can be pure. You can't be pure and then chant. You have to chant and then be pure. Unless the person is already very much in ajñāni, unless they have come to a very philosophical understanding, it's very hard for most people to first renounce and then chant. It's by chanting they get the strength to renounce, to avoid sinful activities.

So, more and more people are becoming attracted to mode of goodness things. Because they seen how just by sheer science they are seeing, by statistics, that sinful activities are not good for you, they are creating diseases and cancer, there are so many. Of course, even if they don't want to, they are forced to. If they want to, if they care even about their physical wellbeing, they are forced to curtail their sinful activity. If they actually understand that after this life, comes another life, and what they are doing in this life will create the next life, and these are the alternative, somehow or another we have to give them this spiritual knowledge.

When Kṛṣṇa consciousness is able to be as Prabhupāda wanted, to be spiritual master of the entire world, we hope that would happen by being the spiritual master of the Americans, there is no other… you can see… When we see these EPCOT or the Japanese world fare, when modern religions are not able to answer their questions, I mean these mlechha, they have to go, although, they are our brothers we respect them, but, the real answers to these modern scientific questions and proposals they brought up, can only be adequately answered with the full knowledge, which you will get in most complete version of course in the Vedas, especially in essence in the Bhāgavatam and in the Bhagavad-Gītā.

Distributing books on these transcendental topics, getting people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and practice Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, worshipping Kṛṣṇa by taking His prasādam and attending the temple, and establishing temples in their homes - this is the basic order of Lord Caitanya to all of His followers. Even Lord Nityānanda was going door to door knocking (knocking sound) asking the people to take it up. So, if it is good enough for Lord Nityānanda to do, what to speak of us? Who are we, insignificant, conditioned soul, being engaged in devotional service.

Jaya Śrī Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda
Śrī-Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsādi-Gaura-Bhakta-Vṛnda

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Time for Questions.

Question: Not Audible.

Jayapatākā Swami: Even if they chant offensively, it is better than not chanting at all.

I was in South India and once, you get these real intellectual type people there. And he came up to me and said that, “Every religion says that theirs is the only way, you must have faith. Isn’t there one religion that you don’t need faith? (Laughter). Will it work even without faith, even you don’t believe?”

I said, “Yes, we have it. This chanting of the Holy names. Ḍāku Ratnākara, who became Vālmīkī, he had no faith. He was asked to chant the name of Rāma. He said I can’t chant any name of anything holy, he couldn’t even say God, nothing like that. He was told to then chant murder-murder-murder in Sanskrit, mara-mara-mara. If only that much faith, somehow or another chant, do what the guru ordered, that much minimal faith is required, then do it. But he had no faith in the holy name as such. He could not even say it, what to speak of have faith in it. He was chanting marā-marā-marā-marā-marā. By chanting marā-marā-marā-marā, because Rāma-Rāma-Rāma-Rāma was being spoken from his lips and as a result he became Vālmīki. He realized Rāmacandra. He had the eyes that could see the entire Rāmāyaṇa, 10,000 years before Rāma appeared on this earth. He was so pure.”

“Ajāmila, he just chanted his son’s name Nārāyaṇa, NĀRĀYAṆA, when he was dying. Then, just because of that he was saved. He wasn’t chanting with some great faith, with accident, practically speaking. If someone chant even just mechanically, without faith, somehow or another they chant, it will gradually have effect. Obviously, if someone chants with faith, with devotion, with concentration then how much quicker we are at it. It took Vālmīki a long time of chanting marā-marā-marā to get the same effect. But nonetheless, there will be some effect.”

Why even Haridāsa Ṭhākura, when Lord Caitanya said that, “How will all these mlecchas and yavanas will be delivered, these fishermen, and all these various type of students who always arguing, and never want to get down to the actual reality, just want to be on a mental platform and so man? So then, what did Haridāsa Ṭhākura say, “By Your mercy, by this chanting, a nāmābhāsa, the reflection of the name, it is like when the sun rises, there is a little light before that is called the ābhāsa, it is just the dim reflection of the, dim reflection of the name, just by that they will be purified.

And like for instance, the Muhammadans when they say harām, they don’t mean hey Rāma, they mean oh you offensive person, but somehow, they are saying harām. When the Americans are seeing Ramāyaṇa or something Rāma, so many Rāmas they have in America, Tamil Rāma, somehow or another, they are already getting the blessings, knowingly or unknowingly. So, if they actually would chant: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, even without much faith, even just as an experiment, just as out of hopelessness or something, out of just why not, tried everything else, well… So many people, actually lots of people said to me, but… Then, by chanting, by gradually see a change in themselves and they try to see that there is something a higher reality, become a little purified. Then when they read, when they come in the association of devotees, naturally, they can appreciate more. Of course, if someone is very offensive to the devotees, very offensive, then it is more difficult.

One place I have Prabhupāda told that, “Just have them chant Sri Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, because they are so simple that it will be more effective than chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even if they are offensive, better they chant, than not chant. Of course, we have to show the standard of offenseless chanting and preach against committing offenses. Because if they are committing offenses, they won’t get pure love of God, they may get liberation, or they may remain as human being, but they won’t get the ultimate goal. So, want to bring them to the highest benefit, we have to show ourselves, by our personal example, what is offensive chanting and try to bring people up to that platform.

Hare Kṛṣṇa!