19821031 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.2.1.14 in Bangkok, Thailand

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on October 31, 1982 in Bangkok, Thailand. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 2nd Canto, Chapter 1, Verse 14.

Translation: Mahārāja Parīkṣit, now your duration of life is limited to seven more days, so during this time you can perform all those rituals which are needed for the best purpose of your next life.

Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: Śukadeva Gosvāmī, after citing the example of Mahārāja Khaṭvāṅga, who prepared himself for the next life within a very short time, encouraged Mahārāja Parīkṣit by saying that since he still had seven days at his disposal, he could easily take advantage of the time to prepare himself for the next life. Indirectly, the Gosvāmī told Mahārāja Parīkṣit that he should take shelter of the sound representation of the Lord for the seven days still remaining in the duration of his life and thus get himself liberated. In other words, everyone can best prepare himself for the next life simply by hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, as it was recited by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The rituals are not formal, but there are also some favorable conditions, which are required to be carried out, as instructed hereafter.

Thus end the Purport by His Divine Grace Śrīla A. C. Bhaktivedanta Svāmī Prabhupāda of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, Canto 2, Chapter 1, Text 14 in the matter of “The First Step in God Realization.”

tavāpy etarhi kauravya
saptāhaṁ jīvitāvadhiḥ
upakalpaya tat sarvaṁ
tāvad yat sāmparāyikam

So, Mahārāja Khaṭvāṅga was able to achieve perfection in one moment. So, in this way, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is encouraging Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that he has seven days at his disposal. Therefore, he can easily achieve perfection. When a person can do it in even one moment, then why not in seven days?

Of course, there is a saying, "Manyana manyana (tomorrow, tomorrow)” - That in the Western world, everyone likes to put off until tomorrow "I will do it tomorrow, I will do it tomorrow." In this way, even we are born with so many years at our disposal, we are always thinking, "Well, after childhood, then I will do; after youth, I will do; after married life, I will do.” Then finally we get into old age, and even if we want to do, we don’t have the strength anymore. We have seen that sometimes old people come to join our temple at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, and at that time they are already 60, 70 years old, their body is shaking, they can hardly see, they don’t have the strength anymore to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness very effectively. It's much more difficult for them. Then on top of that their children, their grandchildren, they come, and they are engaging them in family affairs.

One life member who has over million rupees at his disposal, still he is thinking, “Well I would like to retire at Māyāpur, but every month I have to go and see my family for a few days, and I have to have so many facilities.” At the same time, he doesn't want to contribute any money for those facilities. He is trying to bargain that we should, "All right you pay a donation of $30 a month. A dollar a day and then we can feed you." He says, "No, no, it’s too much," this, that.

So, the people… he is already old, he is already given the business to his children, still he is so attached. Sometimes people, even they think like this that they are never going to die. They are thinking that life is going to go on forever, and they make the arrangement like that. Even they're old, even they're… all the signs of death are there, they are not thinking that soon they have to go. So, they are just hoarding money, they are not making any preparation for the next life.

Sometimes people may say, “Why does Kṛṣṇa give us old age?” Old age is a special mercy of Kṛṣṇa that we… if we can see the writing on the wall that we are soon coming to the end of this body, so we can start to get prepared for the next life. It's just like when you come to the dead-end road, they show you the sign "dead end" that is the kindness of the government. Or they can put a sign on the door “Curve Ahead”, on the road “Curve Ahead”, “Slippery Road” and so on. So this is the sign of nature, on our road to life, that when we start to lose our eyesight, when our teeth start to fall out, when we start to feel aches in our bones, and when we start to have the skin get wrinkled, when the hair turns white, then we know that physically our body is coming to an end. So, at least at that last point of life, we should try to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. But unfortunately, because there is no culture to the beginning of life, to the middle of life, at the end of life, it is not possible, very, it is not very easy to suddenly shift gears, to suddenly change one's whole concept of life and now simply prepare to leave. It is possible for great souls like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, because right from their birth, they were prepared in this consciousness.

That is why even from the womb, even from before birth, the parents should see that their children are given every opportunity to develop spiritual consciousness and through their childhood, so that when they come into the difficult time of puberty, of adolescence, of family life, they’ll have that strength from their childhood of spiritual background, which can save them. So, these things are very important.

Nowadays, in a modern society, everyone is being trained even in the so-called Buddhist and Hindu countries, where people know from their religious culture that we are not this body that we are the ātmā that we take many births, still everyone is being trained in Indian consciousness, Burmese consciousness, Thai consciousness, Sinhalese, or Srilanka consciousness, like that. They are being trained, even they know that this life they may be a Thai, this life they may be an Indian, this life they may be a Chinese, what about the previous life? What about the next life?

So, although, people are professing a certain kind of faith, but in practical life, they are completely identifying only with this body; identifying with this body is not going to bring peace in the world. So therefore, you have some nations who are very strong, who are very economically powerful, they feel, "Why should we do anything for the poor nations beyond simply a little charity? As long it doesn't hurt our interest or as long as it benefits our interest, we can help others." In this way, there is no way that in the world, you can get an overall feeling of real brotherhood, overall feeling of world peace. This national consciousness rather creates enmity between nations.

One nation is always going to feel competitive to the other nation, and this competition is not only economical, but it turns political, it turns militarily, it turns in so many ways. So, the world is filled with various hot and cold wars, economic wars, various type of wars are going on. Yet people are talking about world peace, they are talking about world uh… world uh, brotherhood. But it is only possible if they actually realize the real spiritual reality, the spiritual, uh, facts of life. Instead of acting under bodily consciousness, if they act under consciousness of being eternal soul, being part and parcel of the supreme soul. And so, then people, they are trying to convert from one kind of partial consciousness to another type of partial consciousness. But where is the attempt to return people back to the original consciousness?

Dhṛtarāṣṭra was a great king, but his younger brother Vidura, when he saw that, “He is a great king, but he’s… in old age… he is already blind since birth, but on top of that he is coughing, he is wheezing, his teeth are falling out, he is hard of hearing. All the symptoms of impending death are coming”; so, he came and started to chastise him that “You are just like a dog, begging from the house of the people who were, who have killed your son. All your teeth are falling out, your hair is turning white, you are going to die at any moment, and the last part of your life you are living just like a beggar dog, here at the expense of your younger nephews. Why don’t you go out and perform self-realization?”

In this way, by using harsh words, the spiritual master in the form of Vidura, even though he was his younger brother, still he was acting as spiritual master at that moment. He induced Dhṛtarāṣṭra to give up his false position, and to go into the forest and perform meditation, by which he was able to wind up his material activities for this life and achieve some perfections in yoga. So, in this way each person may have different stages of development; sometimes the person may need to be spoon-fed, so to speak, very gently given some little spiritual advice. Sometimes a person may need a sledgehammer on the head, just like Vidura gave Dhṛtarāṣṭra. You see, if already a personal relationship is built up, between the preacher and the person, then that gives an opportunity to use the sledgehammer, to be able when time needed to pull one out of the material situation, when it's at the last leg.

So, here Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he is coming into the last seven days. He is not thinking about his insurance policies, he is not thinking about his payments on his car, or his color television, he is not considering all the other different kind of things that people would think, "Oh I have seven days; how I am going to meet all the payments?” He realizes, "I have seven days. All right, now I have to prepare for my next life.” You get evicted from one apartment, you have to think, "What’s the next place, where do I go?" If you are living in an apartment, suddenly you get eviction notice, then you think, "Where am I going to go? I don’t want to be sitting on the street."

The people, they think that this body is like they own it or something. We don’t own this body; if we own it, then we could stay forever. Everyone knows that they are here only for a certain time, but the foolish thing in the Western world is that they are acting just as if they are living here forever. So, it’s so difficult to convince the people in the west even that there is life after death. They don’t even believe it, although they may say… a few people may be Christian or this or that, but the majority of people, they don’t even believe that there is a life after death.

They think, "When I die, it’s just finished.” So they just think that, if there is a life after death then they think, "Well, one life, and then after that you just wait until the whole material word is annihilated, and at the time of reckoning, the angel Gabriel will blow a bugle, and because you believe in Jesus you are going to be delivered. So, you don’t have to worry about the next life, you just eat, drink, merry, and drink the blood of Jesus and that’s all taken care of."

So, in this way they have it all sewed up, so that you don’t have to actually think about your next life. This is their foolishness. And the big materialists, they are making so many exhibitions nowadays just to convince people that this life is all that counts. You see, and after even though you are finished at the end of this life, your children and grandchildren, they will be coming into a better world, because of your work, you see, completely unsatisfying. You are going to die - finished. But your children they are going to come into a better world. Everything is based upon body consciousness.

So here… that is why this Bhāgavatam is so important that how a pure devotee acts when he knows he has seven days. Immediately, he is thinking, "What is my next life? How to prepare for my next life? How to prepare myself for the next existence? Completely the opposite of the modern-day world.

So, one thing here in Thailand, that we have a great advantage is people already believe in reincarnation. They already believe in karma. They know these things, you see. So immediately you tell them that, "You are very proud of being a Thai. Why you think you are a Thai? You were a Thai in your previous life? What about your next life?” If they believe even in Buddhism, they can realize all the propaganda that is being given is all simply against all the principles of even Buddhist, Buddha philosophy.

Try to elevate the people above the bodily consciousness and then by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, by association with devotees, by taking kṛṣṇa-prasāda, reestablish the relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it's very easy, you see. Very easy for people to practice Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, by taking them in a step by step way. Of course, it is not ordinarily easy, but by Lord Caitanya's mercy, even miracles are done, you see. Miracles are performed just by chanting:

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

Jagāi Mādhāi, they were completely envious people. Still they were delivered.

pāpī tāpī yata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo
tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi

So when Jagāi and Mādhāi is delivered, then why not so many others, who are not envious of Kṛṣṇa? Most of the people, they are innocent. They are simply being misled but they are not satisfied, so they are looking, they are looking. When they see that devotees chanting and the ecstasy, you see, then immediately they become attracted, that, “Their people are happy, their soul is awakened by that vibration.”

We shouldn't lose, we should have rather our full faith in the power of this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. That simply by hearing the Bhāgavatam, simply by hearing the chanting, simply by taking prasāda, chanting, dancing, people will completely be awakened to their original consciousness. We should have this faith in the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and simply engage people in chanting, in hearing, in dancing, and feasting on prasāda, and reading Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books. This process has nothing to do with the time and place that we are in. That time and place will mean that, we have to present it in a particular way just to suit the mentality of that time and place. But the process goes beyond any material circumstances. Anyone who can come in association with this chanting, with the Kṛṣṇa conscious, with devotional service, they will be purified. There is nothing more powerful than the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is a great opportunity.

Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was already a very advanced person, he wanted to immediately prepare himself for the next life. Similarly, some people you meet will be very advanced, some people will be very materialistic. But if we simply pray to Lord Caitanya that He inspire us, Lord Nityānanda, Advaita that they inspire us with that compassion.

How Lord Advaita, how he was crying? He was crying for the living entities that they had become bahira mukha, they had become materialistic, they had forgotten Kṛṣṇa, even in Navadvīpa, even in Bengal, even in India, they have forgotten, and they are simply living for the temporary happiness of the body. They were staying up to eight o’ clock at night; they were sleeping even up to sunrise they were doing so many materialistic things then. They were no longer worshiping Kṛṣṇa in devotion, but instead they were worshiping Him for material purposes and doing ritualistic activities simply for elevation to the heavenly planets. They were so materialistic then that Advaita Gosāñi was crying that Lord Kṛṣṇa come down Himself to inspire them with pure love. Of course, what materialism they had then compared to what materialism is here now! You can imagine how Advaita Gosāñi is crying for these souls who are completely miserable.

Here in Thailand, it's very common for people to have more than one wife, under the table situation. One man came here, he was having two wives. So, although the wives get along with each other, but because he has now two houses, big economic problem, big headache, he wants… he is trying to increase his material happiness; instead his headache is going increasing. So, then he is asking that, "What should I do?"

“Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.” You see. So that person, last night he came to the program. Just a common person. He was a big businessman who lost everything; due to bad luck, he became a taxi driver. So, he came last night after three days he was here at the program and he was chanting also Hare Kṛṣṇa with the devotees. Simply because we were willing to listen to what was his problem and to explain the thing to the extent that the person could understand, then he chanted. Obviously, he must have felt something, otherwise why he came again after two days?

It’s not that he was an ordinary taxi driver, he was before a rich man, but he just invested his money in speculation (laughter) and lost everything, which is common in speculation. Anyway, that is why we are told not to gamble, you see. So, this material world people are suffering, and they all think that, “Well, they’re going to just live forever.” But this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement was given by Lord Caitanya, so that people could end their suffering, and actually come back to the spiritual world to develop their original relationship with Kṛṣṇa. It is such an opportunity for them, that it's just inconceivable how Lord Caitanya is giving this mercy, and we cannot imagine.

If you just study what was Satya-yuga, what was Dvāpara, Tretā-yuga, what were the different yugas, how one had to struggle to, even at that time, had to do for 1000s of years, 100s of years had to do self-realization in order to achieve liberation, and how Lord Caitanya is giving out love for Kṛṣṇa, which even Kṛṣṇa himself didn’t give so easily, how He is simply giving it out freely. Such a mercy we cannot imagine!

Everyone is already liberated; they are already liberated by Lord Caitanya’s mercy. It’s simply now how many people we can get to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so that they get beyond liberation, and actually get love for Kṛṣṇa. Just like here, so many… even they're just seeing Rāma Jnan which may have so many offenses, so they won't be able just by seeing that, to develop love for Kṛṣṇa, but even as the nāmābhāsa, they're saying Rāma, they are able to get so much spiritual benefit. That alone is enough to bring them up to liberation.

According to Haridāsa Ṭhākura in Caitanya-Caritāmṛta, even a nāmābhāsa gives one liberation in due course. But we are not interested in that. We want actually the people should develop love for Kṛṣṇa. That’s possible simply if we engage them in chanting

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

and

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

All our philosophy is meant to just to get the people to chant. When they can’t chant 24 hours a day, then fill up the rest of their time in service. When Lord Caitanya sent Rāma Paṇḍita… Śrī Rāma Paṇḍita to get Advaita, to tell Advaita that, "That Lord for who you cried for, that Lord who you were chanting loudly for, shouting out, who you were fasting for, who you were worshiping the śālagrāma-śilā with Ganges water and tulasī for, He has come to Nadīyā.” And Śrī Rāma Paṇḍita, the younger brother of uh, Śrīvāsa, he went there, and he told Advaita this.

Advaita was jumping up and down, "Hari Bol! Hari Bol! The Lord has come! The Lord has come!" Then He said, "How do I know Lord Caitanya has come? How do I know, how do I know that Kṛṣṇa has come, that this is in fact the Lord of My life? The Paramātmā, the Supersoul? What proof? No, I won’t go, you tell Him I am not coming to see Him. I am going to go and hide and test Him. If He calls Me, if He shows Me His original spiritual form, if He puts His lotus feet on My head, then I will know in fact, He is the Lord who has come from the spiritual world, He is the Original Personality of Godhead; otherwise how can I believe that He is that Supersoul and He has come on My call. I am not going to tell Him."

In the meanwhile, his wife Sītā-devī had already prepared the pūjā tray, just in case. Then they ran off and they were hiding nearby where Lord Caitanya was in His mood as the Personality of Godhead; for the first time He was manifesting His īśvara-bhāva amongst His intimate devotees. So, then He called out, "Nāḍā, Nāḍā! Advaita, Advaita! Why you are hiding?" As soon as Śrī Rāma Paṇḍita came, He called out, "Why is Advaita is hiding? Come on, come on!"

Advaita became scared, he came out, he saw Lord Caitanya and he bowed down at a distance. When he looked up, He couldn’t see Lord Caitanya as He saw before. There, He saw a form more effulgent than millions of suns. He saw the whole world as a brahma-jyoti was coming from Lord Caitanya, and He was showing His complete spiritual form. Only Lord Caitanya, Nityānanda, Śrīvāsa, who were there beside Lord Caitanya, only the associates and Lord Caitanya were visible. The whole world had become blacked out by the glare of the brahma-jyoti! He was seeing simply on the spiritual platform. His vision was simply on the transcendental platform, where he could see the transcendentally situated… where Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda and others.

How the demigods then they came, and they were offering respects to Lord Caitanya. He showed His universal form. Then He told Advaita… Advaita came, and He touched Advaita with His lotus feet on his head and said, "Advaita, by your calling, by your loud shouting, you disturbed Me when I was in the spiritual world, you had Me come down. So now I have come, because of your worship, your desire. Now what do you want? You tell Me, what do you want?” So Advaita jumped up shouting, “Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! The Lord has come! I have bought the Lord down; He is come on my call! Hari bol! Hari bol!” He is jumping and dancing. How Lord Kṛṣṇa had come down by his request, he was feeling little transcendental pride. He was jumping and shouting, “Hari bol! Hari bol!” How the lord was so kind to come. Then falling down again and paying obeisances, then jumping and dancing. Then Lord Caitanya said, "Now, you must take from Me one boon, one wish, what do you want?”

“No! no! You've come, that's enough. That's fulfilled every..."

"No, you must take from Me one. You want what? Liberation? You want anything? You just tell Me what you want.”

“No no no no. You have already come, that's enough.”

“No, no. You must take one wish.”

“Alright.” After much insistence, finally Advaita agreed, “Alright. If I must take one boon from You, then this is my desire: You please grant those souls who ordinarily do not have the opportunity to become God conscious to develop pure love for You, those who are ordinarily unfortunate, who are ordinarily not having that opportunity, may they be the recipients of Your special mercy. May they be able to achieve Your mercy and get this highest benediction of life. This is my special request.”

So, Lord Caitanya replied, "tatasthaḥ.” “So be it."

Then Lord Advaita said, "No no, but this is not all. That is only the first half. The other half, other half is also there.” He said that, “Those persons who are very proud of being very spiritual, being great devotees, being great brāhmaṇas or kings, and they think that because of their material position, because of their so-called position, they deserve to get Your mercy, who out of pride, they neglect the devotees of the Lord; you see, out of their pride, they offend the devotees of the Lord, and you see, they think that they deserve Your mercy, let them not get Your mercy. Let Your mercy not be given to those arrogant people.” Then Lord Caitanya also agreed.

We see how Rūpa and Sanātana, even though they were big big prime ministers, they went to Lord Caitanya with the straw in their, in their teeth, begging that, "Please have Your mercy. We are most unqualified, we don’t know anything." So, they got the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

Mahārāja Pratāparudra, as a king wanted to see Lord Caitanya. He said, "No I won’t see him. I won’t see him; I won’t see any king.” When he came and he swept the road in front of Jagannātha in a humble way, then Lord Caitanya, He became compassionate to him. When he came as a Vaiṣṇava to see Lord Caitanya, then he received. Not that you can come, "O Lord Caitanya! I am a king, so have Your mercy on me.” No. You have to come just on your hands and knees. Then you can get what ordinarily even big demigods like Brahmā and Śiva they cannot get very easily.

So this is a special mercy that even those who seem like hopeless cases, unfortunates, they can, simply by the mercy also of a devotee, by some special prayer of a devotee… Devotees should… preachers should be praying to Prabhupāda, to Kṛṣṇa, to Lord Caitanya, Nityānanda to bless the people they are preaching to, if they want to see them delivered. To pray for those souls, to understand the help, devotee has a power of blessing. So, we don’t bless that you have a big business or this or that for material reasons. We bless especially that people become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is specially the blessing that is given. The devotees, when they are preaching, they should be thinking, how this soul can be awakened from its material consciousness, and even try to attract special mercy on the different people. This is how... You think Prabhupāda didn’t pray that people would be delivered? He made good fortune for people; even they had no good fortune. Similarly, devotees, they make the good fortune even people have no fortune.

Nārada Muni made good fortune for Mṛgāri, the hunter. He was hopeless. He made good fortune for Dasyu Ratnākar, the thief, so he could become Vālmīki and speak the Rāmāyaṇa. So, like that, the devotees, they have to try to get the mercy of Lord Caitanya to act as instrument to make good fortune. People become fortunate especially by the intervention of a devotee of the Lord. This way, if a person is so engrossed in trying to help other people to come up to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you have no time to concentrate on material miseries or on material desires.

As soon as you start to think about liberation, as soon as you start to think about material desires, immediately you become in anxiety. kṛṣṇa-bhakta — niṣkāma, ataeva ‘śānta’, [Cc Madhya 19.149] that Kṛṣṇa devotees only think how to please Kṛṣṇa. And what wonderful desire Kṛṣṇa is expressing now. All he wants is, “Let the people serve Me.” Lord Caitanya said, “Let the people chant and dance in ecstasy.” So, if a person simply absorbs himself in that service to Lord Caitanya, giving out the mercy there is no time for any material anxiety or miseries. Simply the anxiety how to bring people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That anxiety produces love for Kṛṣṇa even in the preacher. So by, while preaching, one is developing love for Kṛṣṇa.

Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī — sakali ‘aśānta’ [Cc Madhya 19.149]- Those who want material elevation, liberation from birth and death, who want mystic power, they are all disturbed people. They are all unpeaceful, they are all agitated, they are all in anxiety. “When will I get liberation? when will I…” But a devotee’s anxiety is how, when will these people become Kṛṣṇa conscious? How can I help them to be Kṛṣṇa conscious? That desire, because it is Kṛṣṇa’s desire is actually no desire at all. It’s a complete harmony with Kṛṣṇa. It brings one into closer and closer contact with Kṛṣṇa, it makes one a confidential devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, which means that one is already above the laws of karma, is already above the material world.”

māḿ ca yo vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
[Bg 14.26]

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
[Bg 18.54]

Immediately one is lifted to the Brahman platform. He is not seeing, “This person is a white, or yellow, or green, or blue, or Chinese, or a Thai, or American, or Indian.” He is seeing this is spirit soul covered by different illusion. “This is the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Until we join in devotional service with Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa, that soul will never be satisfied. Never be satisfied.” So, the devotee becomes under Brahman platform, immediately on the spiritual platform simply by seeing everyone as a part of Kṛṣṇa and trying to engage them in Kṛṣṇa’s service according to their ability, propensity, nature, possibility, you see. This is the special mercy of Lord Caitanya that Prabhupāda personally showed us, “To do what I do.” He showed exactly in the West, he showed in different parts, he simply tried to engage the people. Engage them in one way in Russia, engage them in another way in another country. Similarly, we simply have to engage people in chanting, and dancing, reading his books, feasting on prasāda, and they will get the mercy of

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

Haribol! Any questions?

[Aside: Did you make sure prasādam is ready? As soon as I get out, I want to take prasāda within thirty seconds.]

Devotee: You’re saying that everyone is already liberated, (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Yeah. When He desired… when Prabhupāda desired that every town and village this chanting will be heard, that means just like Hare Kṛṣṇa is already a household word in America. Everyones heard of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just by saying Hare Kṛṣṇa, hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa they'll get liberation, but we’re not interested in liberation. We want to… before they get to the liberation and get lost in the light, we want them to actually get love for Kṛṣṇa.

So, our compathy… liberation is no problem, practically speaking. Of course, there may be some time period but immediately liberation is guaranteed. How many births, it’s just like the… alright they’re already put down the chute, just like a countdown. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 shoop. So, they’re already on the countdown. It’s like half-life, half-life, uranium every year it goes half, half, half, half, half, half. Finally, its finished. So, they are already, they already on the countdown. They have already chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, they have already… So now the question of either this birth or few births or whatever, they have already chanted, as long as they don’t commit any offense to any devotees then they’re guaranteed liberation.

Devotee: You mentioned that they’re making exhibitions in the West, the rich people… (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Oh yeah. Walt Disney made a huge exhibition Epcot, one billion dollars… one-billion-dollar exhibition. I personally went to see that. Simply showing how material science is God. How you progress from the photoplasmic crust, and you come up through the evolutionary process from the cave men, and how you are going to become a space man tomorrow.

Devotee: Disneyland?

Jayapatākā Swami: No No, Disney land is for the kiddies. This is separate; this is next to Disney world. Five, five kilometers away. A whole special 600-acre exhibition. One billion dollar. Each exhibition put on by Bell telephone, put on by Exxon, put on you know info… Kraft, all the big multi-national you know American companies which are… then they give some of the money they get their name there. The whole thing is conceived by Walt Disney.

Exhibit on the world of energy, that we need the cooperation… you know it's just like “Now together one team! Science, the public, industry!” (laughter) One team, you know. Industry hires the scientists, public spends all the money (laughter) and they make all the profit. (laughter) Big team work! And the people were applauding at the end, you know. They are standing up. One thousand people at the end applauding and then in the back some people were vomiting because they too… that they had this cart, and they took you like into the dinosaur world, where they had dinosaurs fighting. It didn’t make any sense with anything except that many millions of years ago dinosaur bodies fell down and created oil. That's what they say you know. So, then they go and they show, take you to this thing, dinosaurs, cave men, watch the Walt Disney. They put on this, you know like these exhibits, dinosaurs, cavemen and then you come back, then they show you like “Now the modern world what we have, how we progressed from the dinosaur age.” You know, people feel like, “Wow! We really came up. I was a dinosaur, you know whatever they were gian… now we’ve really come up.”

And then they give you the last feel at the end of everything, “And see how we have progressed in the past…” you know “...so many years, and now! Imagine what tomorrow...” and then they break off into a riff of rock and roll (singing) tomorrow, tomorrow tata tata tata tha (imitates drum hits) and then you know… you know, whole (imitates electric guitar) you know, the rock and roll, you know, (singing) tomorrow, tomorrow the day of the future. Happiness. Bliss. (drum sounds) Tomorrow.

Then they show you know, a light show, you know, laser-light you know, this is how the whole thing light… and they show little… a picture of a little… of a girl, an embryo and from the embryo, birth and in birth then you see, now there’s like a baby, then a youth child girl, goes up to 12 years old like, 16 years old, full grown woman, like a changing bodies. Then what’s next? Old age death? No! No old age! No death! Then suddenly they turn into a space woman. Then there’s a space man and they got their space suits all in light with lasers and light and effulgence coming from them, you know (singing) Space Man! (imitates music sounds) Tomorrow! The future holds tomorrow! There's no... and then they tshh, then they start spinning around in circles with more light and everything merges into a big flash. That's the end. World of energy.

Then all the people stood up and applauded. It’s just, you know… When we saw… the… every show at the end has rock-n-roll music and "Tomorrow, tomorrow." and about the 4th exhibit when we saw this, he says, “Oh No! Here comes the lights and the tomorrow song again.” We started cracking up. We were rolling in the aisles laughing. I was… the first, first four exhibits, I was just so angry, everyone just, “How these people are being cheated, cheated, cheated by these materialists.” Finally, it became so ludicrous that it practically, I mean that it was just uh, we couldn’t help but laugh that, “How the people were so foolish? And how they are presenting it?”

You know, they skip over the last ten years real fast, because then you know then you think of all the crime, and all the drugs, and all the immorality and all the political unrest, and all the massacres, and all the different things, you know that, pst, you get over because it’s too fresh in you and you go like… up to like 1950’s, 60’s and then shoop, you zip over into Tomorrow World (laughter), which is just lights and rock and roll music.

People, you know, they and there's no kids. This is not Disney… Everyone there is a college student up; only maybe 5%, they bring the kid along just you know, because they don’t know what…. have a babysitter or something. It’s all older people, all college students, middle aged people and they’re eating it up!

Devotee: That means they have a culture… (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Oh Yeah! We have to make sure that they are right on target. They are completely gung ho behind Amer… you know Western technology, modern science, this is, you know, consumer… this is the whole thing, you know.

Devotee: They probably, you know it’s a method… (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, they go there just for the recreation. You know, have fun, you but then the whole thing is how with the propaganda, they don’t even realize that it’s propaganda. They just think it is like an exhibition or something, educational or something you know, because this is what they, you know, they think, this is every day world, you know. So just like an explanation for them. They don’t... Because they don’t. They just reinforce what, you know, they're getting everyday through their television, through their… it reinforces, you know the regular propaganda. Just like super done with Walt Disney techniques with computer moving statues and robots and light shows and mass multimedia and 3D movies and all kind of techniques they have, it’s amazing.

You just give us, you know one exhibit like that, and we can present reincarnation, we can present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy. The person see’s that would be changed around for life. This, it wears off, because you out to… you can all stand up and applaud and this that… but then they’re still growing old, still dying. Tomorrow… Who cares, tomorrow? Tomorrow I’m going to be dead. My fore, you my… just some sentiment, that “Alright, you know, hundred years from now…” they keep, you know, "We are gonna overcome old age, we are gonna overcome death... we're gonna…” Just, you know…

Devotee: (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: They still have Walt Disney in the freezer. Just a propaganda you see, so it doesn’t satisfy anybody. It maybe you know, for that day… even the people walk out of there, they’re completely tired out, walking miles and miles the whole day. You had to pay 15 dollars to see the thing. Then they spend at least 10-20 dollars, you know, while they're there, plus getting there. And just on you know, refreshments, there’s at least 15 bucks they must spend. So, they are making millions of dollars every day. Their daily income is well… sometimes 200,000 people… no not even that many I mean...

(aside) how many people?

May be 200,000 people went the first few days. But I don’t think that is the daily average. I don’t know what is the average, but you figure that out. They are making some incredible amou… they’ll make the investment back in the first year practically. Just see, you know 60,000 people work there, between Walt Disney and there, you have 60,000 people, employees, so it’s like 200,000 people come there.

Devotee: (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Disney owns the own city. Disney world is its own whole place. 60 or 30,000 maybe. 30,000 employees. They are incorporated separately. It’s near Orlando. So just like we wanted to make a... originally... of course, they had a different idea Disney wanted to make a prototype. EPCOT means Experimental prototype community of the future. He wanted to make a living community, where people would live and show how a perfect society, perfect like socialistic or some kind of system like that. But then instead of doing that, they commercialized it and went in with the industry. So actually, our prototype, what we’re doing in Māyāpur, we were making a real prototype of the future. We are making a model village, a model town that could… can exist forever. And there, we’re going to have so many big exhibits. That’s our plan and bring people from all over the world.

Devotee: (inaudible question about Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura)

Jayapatākā Swami: He is older than Lord Caitanya.

Devotee: (Inaudible question about the color of Śrīvāsa’s dhoti.)

Jayapatākā Swami: He is also a gṛhastha They just put everybody's dhoti as a different color. Why don’t you write a letter to Śrīla Rāmeśvara?

Devotee: (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Svāmī: They used to wear colored dhoties. Even in south India, people wear… the brāhmaṇas wear blue dhotis, purple dhotis, purple silk, blue silk, yellow silk, very nice. Usually He has yellow dhoti on, I don't know why they put him in saffron. Some other color, red. Who knows?

Devotee: (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Mr. Birla said he wanted to do a Disney World type of thing for 500 million dollars, 500 crores of rupees near Calcutta. The point is that they, with the ISKCON philosophical background then, ability to put on this type of exhibition, he wants to bring in some technology from the West. Otherwise if you just have an amusement park, it has no message. What's the use?

Devotee: Who?

Jayapatākā Swami: A.K. Birla put in the newspaper, he wanted to build such a park. He should do it at Māyāpur. Everyone will go there. We’ll build it anyway, but I mean, if we could get help like that, 500 million dollars in India is equal to a billion, or trillion American, for sure. But if he wants to do it just to present technology, that will ruin the Indian people.