19820914 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.8.22-23

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on September 14, 1982 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 8th Canto, Chapter 8, Verse 22 and 23.

kvacic cirāyur na hi śīla-maṅgalaṁ
kvacit tad apy asti na vedyam āyuṣaḥ
yatrobhayaṁ kutra ca so ’py amaṅgalaḥ
sumaṅgalaḥ kaśca na kāṅkṣate hi mām
(ŚB 8.8.22)

Translation by His Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda: Someone may have longevity but not have auspiciousness or good behavior. Someone may have both auspiciousness and good behavior, but the duration of his life is not fixed. Although such demigods as Lord Śiva have eternal life, they have inauspicious habits like living in crematoriums. And even if others are well qualified in all respects, they are not devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

*Translation with repetition*

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.8.23

evaṁ vimṛśyāvyabhicāri-sad-guṇair
varaṁ nijaikāśrayatayāguṇāśrayam
vavre varaṁ sarva-guṇair apekṣitaṁ
ramā mukundaṁ nirapekṣam īpsitam

Translation: Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: In this way, after full deliberation, the goddess of fortune accepted Mukunda as her husband because although He is independent and not in want of her, He possesses all transcendental qualities and mystic powers and is therefore the most desirable.

Purport: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Mukunda, is self-sufficient. Since He is fully independent, He was not in want of the support or association of Lakṣmīdevī. Nonetheless, Lakṣmīdevī, the goddess of fortune, accepted Him as her husband.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purport of Text 22 and 23, Chapter 8, Canto 8 [in the matter] of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the matter of “The Churning of the Milk Ocean”.

Jayapatākā Swami: So, in continuation of our class yesterday, Lakṣmīdevī has gone around to all of the demigods, all of the demons, all of the great personalities present and decided that the only one, who is fully independent, who is in the topmost position is Lord Viṣṇu, Mukunda.

There was a disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura from Germany, who about 40 or 50 years ago visited India. Prabhupāda told this story. He was one of those rare he had very expert German Sanskrit scholars. So, he went around India and he studied the Sanskrit texts, looked at all the deities, trying to find out who was in the topmost position. So then, when he visited Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura, might have been before his initiation, then it must have been.

And he was asked, “What was his conclusion?”

So, he replied that, “His conclusion was that, ‘Kṛṣṇa must be the highest deity.’”

“Why? How you have reached that conclusion?”

Well, he gave so many reasons and then in a simple way he also just expressed that, “When you see all the different deities, just like Kālī has got the big chopper, each deity like Śiva is meditating, and each deity is doing something, meditating on someone else or doing some kind of work, building a universe, whatever; when he saw the deity of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, then he saw that Kṛṣṇa was simply dancing, playing on the flute. He was the only one who was enjoying. Therefore, that was the clincher that Kṛṣṇa was the topmost; His only purpose is to enjoy”.

In India, when you go into the government offices, you see on some of the clerk’s office desks, files stacked up, three, four stacks, about three-four feet high. But when you go into the minister’s office, he has a little stack. Like this. And when you go into the higher officers, and they, the people just come in, and just gives a little signature, and they walk out, that’s all; so also, in big corporations. The Lord is in His original position simply enjoying with His devotees, transcendental loving relations.

For maintaining the universal governments, universal or cosmic organizations, He expands Himself into the Viṣṇu form, Nārāyaṇa. Although Nārāyaṇa is also the Supreme, He is independent, but He voluntarily accepts to maintain everything. That’s why even amongst the Viṣṇu forms, although they are all the same person, although uniquely, each of the forms has got a particular individual personality in spite of being the same person, it’s an inconceivable situation that, the Lord in those different Viṣṇu forms is maintaining the universe.

Prabhupāda also explained that you can create something - it’s not so difficult. And it’s even easier to destroy it, but to maintain something, that’s very difficult. Just like in America, you find that many people are getting married; doesn’t seem to be so difficult. And a lot of people are also becoming divorced. It also doesn’t seem to be very difficult. But staying together or maintaining the relationship on some working basis - that’s much more difficult. So, in this material world, people create things and they destroy things, but maintaining?! Just like the United Nations always supposed to be maintaining peace, but they’re never able to do it. Ultimately nobody cares what they say, when it comes down to it. So, this is the difficulty.

In the universe, so therefore, Kṛṣṇa Himself, He expanded into Viṣṇu, and so Viṣṇu is maintaining things; otherwise how would things go on? But He does so through His energies, not that He personally has to do anything Himself, except to occasionally come down to bless His devotees. Sometimes He puts the demons in their place by blessing the demigods.

So, in any case, Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune, we see that she is decided to stay with Mukunda. Actually, Prabhupāda explained that she is always steady with Nārāyaṇa, with Kṛṣṇa. But, the goddess of fortune, everywhere else is known as Canchalya, or Cañcalā, she is very flickering, very whimsical. People are just hoping upon hope that the goddess of fortune will always be with them, so they can make a lot of money; so that they can enjoy all type of opulence. But when a person is not a devotee of the Lord, she doesn’t stay any place very long.

In India they have all kinds of theories, I don’t know whether they are true or not. Some people think that, “Well! The goddess of fortune can only stay in your family for three generations. After that, even the wealthiest person will go broke”. This that, they have all kind of speculations. But, so then, when the generations are getting thin and they know, “Well, it’s time to become a devotee of Nārāyaṇa now, because we’ll lose.” Even the Māyāvādīs tell the people, “Yes, you should worship Nārāyaṇa if you want to keep Lakṣmī in your house”.

When Rāvaṇa captured Sītā, that was the complaint. That one of the, his family member, Vibhīṣaṇa or someone, had a dream that Lakṣmī had left Śrī Laṅkā, because of the offense that he did on Sītā devī. So, from that time onward, everything went bad. Everything Rāvaṇa tried after that was a failure. So, to keep goddess of fortune with one, one simply has to always keep Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa present and also not offend the pure devotees. This is the basic secret of success.

America is a powerful country; America was founded on God consciousness in the beginning, at least that was the basic. Pilgrims, one of their principal reasons for leaving England. Of course, for declaring independence, other economic and other reasons also had their part to play. But even today on the coins and in the money, we see, “In God we trust” which is a vestige of the original mood, of depending on God. So, now the Americans are still reaping the results of the pious activities of their forefathers, but it doesn’t take long for pious results to run out, if one is performing lots of sinful activities, hedonistic activities, which is happening more and more.

Actually, when Prabhupāda brought the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement to America, into the West, in the future, people will see that that was the beginning of their greatest good fortune. Already some scholars of Indology say that in the thealistic, theistic [rather] history this is the most momentous time when for the first time orthodox Indian thought and practice has penetrated the West and taken root. Fortunately, there is a cultural gap, although America is very powerful country, the people are rather isolated from rest of the world. It’s surprising how little they know about other cultures.

They construct international hotels that are exactly the same inside. They go around the world and just stay in the hotels. It’s like going under the water through these glass submarines, look and see the fish, they just come out, look around and see the, go and buy, in the market buy a few souvenirs and come back. So, when they see things that they are not accustomed to, they have a tendency of withdrawing, of rejecting, rather than understanding that there is something more than what they know.

So, that way, the Vedānta-sūtras advise that human beings should actually start to inquire about the cause of everything; about the underlying permanent reality and go beyond all the temporary forms. athāto brahma-jijñāsā - now is the time to inquire about Brahma. Now is the time to inquire about the Absolute Truth in this human form of life. Actually, that inquiry was practically non-existent. Thanks to Śrīla Prabhupāda, now many souls are inquiring, and they are able to get the answers.

That’s why we pray,

om ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

That the torchlight of knowledge is being carried by the spiritual master and with that torchlight, the eyes shut, covered by ignorance, are forced open, “Oh! This is the situation.” That this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is actually meant to open the eyes of the people; to bring them closer to Kṛṣṇa.

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham

Kṛṣṇa says, “As one approaches Me, I will reciprocate.” So, somehow or another if people are even inquisitive even if they’re slightly interested, Kṛṣṇa reciprocates. But, if they are completely indifferent, then of course, that’s not a very positive way to get reciprocation. Then, if Kṛṣṇa is indifferent, one is in a hopeless state.

Even Lord Jesus said that, in terms of opposition, he said, “We don’t mind opposition. In fact, we prefer, if someone is against us or for us”. He said, “I like hot water or cold water, but if it is lukewarm, I spit it out.” See, if people come up, why you guys are doing all this stuff, well, that’s better than someone who just looks the other way, as if you don’t exist.

“I didn’t see Hare Kṛṣṇa there!”

Because those people are just trying to have their blinders on like in the horse races, they don’t want to see and just going ahead. You put a blinder on the horse, so it doesn’t get frightened from what it sees on the side. Like that, they are putting on themselves, blinders. They don’t want to be disturbed. They just want to go plodding along. They don’t realize, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām - every step is filled with danger. Every step is filled with danger in this world. No one can avoid it. Even for the devotees, there is danger at every step, but because they take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, He crosses them over the dangers.

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahāt-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
[SB 10.14.58]

Murāri’s, Kṛṣṇa’s lotus feet are compared to the boat which can carry us over the ocean of birth and death. And those who don’t accept… And those who are wise souls they always accept that boat knowing that outside of that shelter, every step is filled with danger. So, when we first come to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and start to serve, naturally, we are not always thinking of Kṛṣṇa at every moment. Still whatever service we do, brings us closer and closer to Kṛṣṇa. Even if we don’t finish in this life, again in the next life, we will take up where we left off. So, at the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he would repeatedly warn his devotees, that they had to keep their contact with Kṛṣṇa by being conscious of Kṛṣṇa, by being conscious, through chanting, through remembering, through being sensitive to Kṛṣṇa’s dictation in one’s heart.

Kṛṣṇa helps even the materialist. Just like when a mosquito is about to home in, first the mosquito does a pass by the ear. This is Supersoul, giving you a chance. (laughs) “Zzzzz zzz, oh-oh a mosquito is there”. I think I have mentioned before that the tigers wherever they go, there is a small rodent that follows them, “tee tee tee tee te”; it’s a little guinea pig, and it makes this little noise just about when the tiger is about to strike on the deer. In this way, the deer can flea and be saved if it is conscious. But if we don’t listen to the Supersoul, just like when you are flying in a plane if you turn off the radio, you’re not going to hear the news broadcast, you’re not going to listen, you’re not going to hear anything. So, devotee, actually Kṛṣṇa helps from within. He helps without as guru, and He helps from within as caitya-guru. But if we don’t listen, if we’re not tuned and we become careless then there is every chance to experience various difficulties.

Sometimes, people want to be Kṛṣṇa Conscious, but just never get the determination together. They think that, “Well, the Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement could do so much more if they had money. So, let me do something illegal and make a lot of money and give it to the Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement and keep a little for myself and then in this way this will somehow be very nice.” So, when they do that, Kṛṣṇa doesn’t want us to do illegal activities and take unnecessary risks, and even then, so many good opportunities are there to avoid difficulty; but due to lust, a person cannot hear, when the Supreme Lord is saying, “Don’t do this, don’t do that, don’t do this”. And in anyway, he goes ahead and does it. So that’s why also guru is needed.

In spite of not hearing, we even know in our heart of heart that, we shouldn’t do this, or we should do that. But our mind is so strong, our desires are so strong, anyway we want to go ahead and do it. So, then we ask the guru, “Should we do this?” And he says, “No.” or “Yes.” or “In this way.” or “Whatever”. So, then we take that. We know in our heart that what he is saying is correct. We shouldn’t be stubborn. We should be receptive to the advice of the spiritual master, to the advice of senior Vaiṣṇavas. That way the people in the Western world are unprotected. They have no guide; they have no one to help them. Government hires social workers to guide people who are in problem, in trouble.

Vedic culture has brāhmaṇas as spiritual masters, who are actually advanced spiritually, and they are helping the people. Yet the government or the people say, ”Well, you are parasites”. Yet, they are hiring people to be government sponsored psychiatrists, sociologists, so on and so forth. And they have the highest rate, according to some recent studies of suicide. Those people who are supposed to help the frustrated people are so frustrated themselves, that they commit suicide; more on a national average than other people. So what right, quality they have to guide others? They are just trying to prop up the status quo; taking that as correct and giving people different excuses why they can live with themselves, as they start to get closer and closer to realize how futile and how empty and how hollow the whole thing is, they actually get frustrated; so they start to prescribe for themselves the same medicines that they prescribe to the people that they’re supposed to be helping, gradually they go off and on.

Actually, the Vedic society is perfect. The people are supposed to help other people themselves have to be peaceful. They have to be situated on the transcendental platform.

bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī — sakali ‘aśānta’
kṛṣṇa-bhakta — niṣkāma, ataeva ‘śānta’
(Cc Madhya 19.149)

muktānām api siddhānāṁ
nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇaḥ
sudurlabhaḥ praśāntātmā
koṭiṣv api mahā-mune
(Cc Madhya 19.150)

The devotees, even amongst liberated and, liberated souls, and souls possessing mystic powers, are considered to be most rare, and most peaceful, self-satisfied of all. This is confirmed in all of the Vedas. Therefore, they are actually in a position of helping everyone.

Rūpa and Sanātana Gosvāmī, described by the song by Śrīnivāsa, they were so much loved by even the ruffians as well as by the gentle people. They would come to them both for advice. This is the nature of great and pure devotees that they are equal to everyone. Therefore, even today in India, generally the dacoits, the thieves they leave alone the sādhūs.

One time there was a move to assassinate Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, not by any thieves or rogues, but because he was reforming Kṛṣṇa Consciousness or reforming the Vedic culture to establish Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and he was exposing the misbehavior and cheating of other so-called spiritual leaders. So these so-called spiritual leaders were trying to find someone who would assassinate Bhaktisiddhānta. So, when one day the police chief came over to see Bhaktisiddhānta and said that, “You should be very careful, there is an attempt being made to take your life. I was offered 25 or 10,000 - Rs. 10,000 or Rs.25,000.“

[Aside: Which of course in those days would be about equivalent to may be a quarter-million. Prabhupāda said that for two rupees his father would buy food for the whole year.] (laughter)

So, this police chief said, “Of course, as policemen we are habituated killing people, and for a good price like that, we don’t mind doing it. But I told them that, I won’t get my hands dirtied with a sādhu, I can’t take that much sin, it is not worth the money. You should be careful.” Actually, in India they say that whenever the police come around, the crime increases. If there is no police station, there is usually less crime. I don’t know if it is the same way in the West.

The ruffians, even he was a ruffian, even he was a notorious kind of policeman, well, he didn’t want to raise a hand against Bhaktisiddhānta, actually you could never find anyone in India, because all, even ruffians or the gentle people, they all had great love and faith for the devotees. So, this is what Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted that should happen in the West, that people would respect the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees as being very honest, being very trustworthy, straightforward in their dealings.

Of course, here in New Orleans, the construction crew seems to have established that type of rapport with certain people. Unfortunately, in general, in different parts of the country not everyone has that idea. Of course, there is a lot of misrepresentation, but that was Prabhupāda’s idea. Because actually a devotee has no reason to cheat anyone. He has nothing to gain; working for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa provides everything.

Devotee is sincerely interested to help everyone come closer to Kṛṣṇa, to help everyone develop faith in Kṛṣṇa. ādau śraddhā – first one has to have faith, then one can go up to the level of association with the devotees, practicing devotional service. So, our first duty is to establish faith. If we can establish faith in people, rather if people can, you know, we can establish or help people to get for them to establish faith in Kṛṣṇa, then it is very easy for them to make further and further progress. As we serve Kṛṣṇa, then we become happier and happier.

Actually, in Śrīvāsa’s house, there was one maid servant, whose name was Dukhī devī. Dukhī means miserable. Dukhī dāsi. She was called unhappy or miserable dāsi. It is an unusual name, but for various reasons, she was given that name. But when Lord Caitanya started His saṅkīrtana, they used to carry, she used to carry from the Ganges, earthen pots filled with water, with Ganges water and line them up. She could have just put them in the house because she was supposed to just bring water because she was a maid servant. So she was bringing water – those days they did not have the municipal utilities. You wanted to get water you walk down to the river, bring it yourself. So, she was bringing water. But not only did she bring the water, but she would line it up around where Lord Caitanya was going to – she had to bring 108 or something, incredible amount of water pots. But then she actually rather than plop them off in one place spontaneously she would line them up just like as almost like it was a greeting for Lord Caitanya’s kirtan party. Lined them up in a beautiful row. And full water pots are considered to be very auspicious. So, Lord Caitanya was noticing every day how when she brought the water pots that she would place them near the saṅkīrtana place in beautiful lines and circles just you know like, she knew… He knew that she was doing this specially thinking that this may be pleasing to Lord Caitanya. So, because she was doing this humble service but in a devotional spirit, Lord Caitanya immediately recognized her.

He said, ”What is this maid servant’s name?”

They said, “Her name is Dukhī dāsi.”

He said, “What? ! How can she be “Miss Miserable!”?” It is not a proper name. Because she is doing all this devotional service, her attitude of service is so nice, no one with that type of devotional spirit can be called Dukhī or miserable, unhappy. From now on I want everyone to call her Sukhī dāsi. They should call her, you see “Miss Happiness”, not “Miss Miserable”.”

And by the blessing of Lord Caitanya, Dukhī dāsi became Sukhī dāsi – unhappy became happy. So even the paid servant of the devotees of Lord Caitanya because of a little service, a little association, they got the unlimited mercy. This is Lord Caitanya’s movement’s special characteristic – anyone who has contact gets mercy. That doesn’t mean that when someone is in the movement, when someone is coming forward, you shouldn’t take Lord Caitanya’s mercy for granted. One shouldn’t become self-conceitful that, “I’m a devotee.”, to the extent that even the Supersoul in us, tells us, “Be careful. Don’t do it. It’s not what your guru wants, it is not what you should do. It is not what I want.” From within, Kṛṣṇa’s voice is telling us and we, “No, no, I am a devotee and I know best.” We are thinking it’s our mind or something. We don’t listen. We just start to think of ourselves in a false ego, “I am a devotee.” We should be thinking always that we are trying to be a devotee, we are trying to come up to that standard and thus we should always be tuned in to Kṛṣṇa.

Well, in the beginning our tuning will not be very good; therefore, we must have a spiritual master. But even as our daily activities, we learn more and more what Kṛṣṇa wants of us, how to act. Still devotional service is an unlimited field for progress. Therefore, the spiritual master, all along has much advice and much assistance to offer. Even in the Śikṣā, excuse me, the prayers to the spiritual master by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, he describes that when one is liberated and goes back to Godhead in the spiritual sky, there the spiritual master comes as an older friend, and introduces one into the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa; even in the liberated state. In the conditioned state, we respect the guru with awe and reverence and in the liberated state then, there is some friendship is also there. Friendship is there only with reverence in the conditional life, never familiarity.

So, of course, now we are a bit anxious because one of our devotees had an accident, naturally we are praying that Kṛṣṇa, in this life we can have continued association, we need so many preachers, we could do so many works through her, that way we are of course hopeful for her. But ultimately Kṛṣṇa is completely independent, and if He wants to take someone away, there is nothing that we can do. We have to go sooner or later, then we only can pray that a person will remain by Kṛṣṇa’s mercy either go back to Godhead, or remain somewhere in service. But of course, the fact of the matter, apart from those higher considerations which are of course constantly dwelling in our mind, there is practical considerations for us to make in our own life that, in things like this, there are definitely times when we go ahead headstrong, and we just start ignoring these little reminders that Kṛṣṇa is giving us.

Just in even in our daily activity, a voice tells us, “Don’t do it!”; but still we do it. We know that if we are driving and if we get sleepy, that if we don’t pull over and sleep, we are going to have an accident, we don’t listen. We know that at different times we get the warning from Kṛṣṇa, but we are not tuned in. Of course that way association with devotees is recommended, because even if we are not tuned in, if a devotee is a real friend, without any envy, without any anger, without any of course anger might be there just in consideration, but without any enmity, the devotee says, “Why you are wasting your time?” or, “Why you’re taking unnecessary risk?” or “Why you are doing this unauthorized thing?” They help us. They remind us of Kṛṣṇa. When we are alone, we are that much more vulnerable.

Prabhupāda, he came to the West alone, but he admitted that, I didn’t think that anyone else could have done it! But once he had devotees, one time he had to go to the bank or something, there was some mess up in the bank, he had to personally go to straighten it out. He said, “I want to go with a devotee; I never want to go anywhere alone again. I never want to be out of the association of devotees again; never allow me to be alone.” Even though he is a fully liberated soul, he didn’t want to be out of the association of devotees. In the same way, we should be very careful, we were discussing last night, not to ever allow our mind to think of an alternative where we are living outside our association of devotees. And if we are living outside of association of devotees now, we should see that our situation is risky. It will be very hard to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As much as possible we should stay close in the circle of devotees. That is called satsanga. Pious isn’t a good enough word, it’s transcendental association, association of the saints. We need that association.

Devotees are real friends in the world; so, we should feel very fortunate to be in the association of devotees and we should be very careful not to lose that association. Because devotees are devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead they automatically have all good qualities within them. Just like the goddess of fortune saw wealth, well there are some people who apparently have all good qualities but because they are not devotees she rejected them. Just like Kaṁsa, he had all good qualities, he was very intelligent, he was very charitable, very powerful, very expert at managing and at controlling situations. But as soon as there was a voice from the heavens that said, “Kaṁsa, your sister Devakī’s eighth son will be the cause of your death!”

He said, “What!?”

He grabbed his sister by the hair in front of hundreds of people, his parents, relatives, and he said, “Your son will be my death, I am going to kill you now!”; just ready to cut off her head because he wasn't a devotee.

“Oh! So, you are going to be the cause of my death! Well! I will kill you.”

This is a demoniac idea. Immediately all good qualities out the window! All thrown out! Forgotten! Because sense gratification, self-interest was, was run over, forget everything!

Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was cursed, “You are going to die in seven days”, he didn't try to, “Oh, I will get that little brāhmaṇa punk!” No! It wasn't any attitude like that. He said, “Oh, this is Kṛṣṇa’s will on me. I acted irresponsibly, now I am put in difficulty, now how can I think of Kṛṣṇa? He must want me to fix my mind on Him, He has some higher purpose. After completing His purpose, of course then, He was free to do whatever he wanted.”

No one can stop the coming of time. But we try to play in the hands of Kṛṣṇa’s higher purpose and become instruments for Kṛṣṇa. This is our special opportunity in this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement; Lord Caitanya predicted every town and village will be filled with the chanting of His holy name. Now if we act as instruments, if we allow His mercy to flow through us then we will be glorified, we will be benefited so much, and that benefit will accrue to countless souls.

So, just like the goddess of fortune, she didn't want to be engaged in the service of any inferior persons, she only chose, “Just let me just serve Viṣṇu.” In the same way we should follow on her footsteps and why should we serve others when we can serve the Supreme; and by serving Him, definitely not only will we be benefited but countless others.

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa
kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma
rāma rāma hare hare

Are there any questions? Yes?

Devotee: (inaudible) What’s the…it’s a practical matter. So, telling your inner voice from your mind or is it Kṛṣṇa?

Jayapatākā Swami: In the beginning the only way to be 100% sure is by asking the spiritual master. One can check with other devotees, senior devotee, especially the spiritual master, then one can be fully sure.

Just like we would sometimes get an idea and we would ask Śrīla Prabhupāda and he would say that idea was inspired by the Supersoul. Sometimes, someone would give an idea and he would say that idea is inspired by māyā.

(devotees laughing)

Of course, by hearing, by reading, we have to only get an idea, we have to learn to analyze it, that, just like we pray, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, I mean… how does it go? cittete kariyā aikya - “May the consciousness be made one with your instructions, with your orders.” Whatever the word of the spiritual master is, our consciousness we want that to be filled with those words and to be one with, in harmony with those words. So, we do something, we have an idea, we want to have it confirmed. This is the system of paramparā – whatever a person does; does it only if it’s authorized; directly you can see that, guru has said, Kṛṣṇa has said in the śāstra. And the śāstras are so vast, the Vedas, that one does not have to leave anything for speculation even if one knows in his heart that this is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Also one trace out the effort; immediately also, Kṛṣṇa gives the example, there is this example in the Vedas or this devotee, or this situation. There are so many millions of examples that have been given on these even in the Bhāgavatam and the Bhagavad-gītā that most of all the situations have already been covered, if one has the eyes to see. So, the spiritual master has the eyes to see, therefore we take his advice.

There also symptom that over endeavor is usually a symptom of a māyā idea. Just like a person gets an idea to do something for Kṛṣṇa and it happens very easily or it happens, it seems to be just going on. But when we have an idea when we do this for Kṛṣṇa, but the number of steps of the material activities one has to do before it finally gets around to being something which is directed at Kṛṣṇa are so many and so rot with difficulties, that is a symptom of over endeavor, an over endeavor for an unproportionate result.

If one has to do something, an over endeavor, they may be attached to Kṛṣṇa and think, let me do this for Kṛṣṇa, I want to build a house for Kṛṣṇa, whatever, something, it is very hard to say any particular thing. Maybe one wants to make an aeroplane. The same thing might be Kṛṣṇa conscious in another situation, so it is not the particular thing, but in that particular situation, there were other easier ways of using time. Kṛṣṇa preferred you do in a different way so that particular way, He keeps, māyā keeps giving so many obstacles so that one will take the other way. But if one is so fixed on that particular idea due to some kind of preconceived idea that in spite of every obstacle, they go on trying, and so at every step they meet difficulty. Lot of practical examples I can think of. They always involve devotees; I don’t want to embarrass them.

There was one older devotee in our movement who was doing nice service but then he got an idea… someone turned him on… turned him… gave him some rubies and they got into a whole thing that he started mining rubies, he bought a ruby mine and he started going there. He just became overwhelmed by these rubies and jewels, like kind of a gold fever. He got a ruby fever, a gem fever.

Prabhupāda kept telling him that it is an over endeavor, it is unnecessary, just preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa will provide, this, that. “No, no, I want to make money for Kṛṣṇa.” and even Pra… you know, even his guru told him don’t do it, he said, “No, no.” And so of course whatever money he did make didn’t go to Kṛṣṇa, he just re-invested it in his business again and again; what usually happens. And then finally he just became farther and farther and removed from Kṛṣṇa and more and more in māyā. Now he is, for the past many years he is completely out of touch. You see him sometimes. Still going to make it one day. So, it’s like over endeavors, misdirected.

So, of course, ultimately the guru is the custodian of one’s spiritual progress, you have to take his advice and as one advances more and more, then, one can tell when one makes a wrong decision, Kṛṣṇa usually smashes it. As you become more advanced in devotional service the slightest mistake will create an immediate result. You see karma might take hundred births. When you surrender to Kṛṣṇa you make a mistake you may get the reaction, “pshew!” five seconds or five minutes or five hours.

There was a devotee riding in a taxi cab in Calcutta, who started to criticize Śrīla Prabhupāda and different devotees for God knows what reason, must have gone mad or something. And another devotee who was with him, immediately he stopped the car and got out and said, “I am not going to hear any offense of pure devotees.” That person went on and within one hour, went to the railway station, missed the train, got into a fight with one of the coolies there, one of the porters, they call them coolies in India, that is the official name, hey coolie! They don’t mind being called coolies. So then, there was a whole riot and about a 150 of the coolies came out of their walls with bricks and sticks and they stripped the so-called devotee completely down naked and only he had on was the brāhmaṇa thread and they beat the pulp out and he was running down the street naked and finally jumped into a moving bus. You know, the whole bus emptied out, they couldn't believe it.

(His Holiness Jayapatākā Swāmī and devotees laughing)

And all this happened within one or two hours after he blasphemed the devotees. He was in the hospital. He’s a blooped devotee, wasn't… that criticizing others always. After that he came by and bowed down hundreds of times in the temple and personally went to each devotee, begging for forgiveness. So that way he was able to learn.

Sometimes we are repeatedly told to be cautious in a particular way or to avoid some kind of activity; we don’t listen, we don’t listen, we don’t listen and then finally Kṛṣṇa says, “Well, “Let what be happen!” and māyā takes over. Kṛṣṇa lifts up, He doesn’t personally do it; He just lifts up some of the shelter, and lets māyā move in, otherwise the devotees are always under the yoga-māyā shelter. But if we neglect Kṛṣṇa, if we neglect the guru, or we blaspheme, then that shelter is removed, and then we are at the mercy of māyā. See, she’s already upset that we are trying to get out of her clutches, so she puts her full load on us, you know.

Devotee: If someone blasphemes a pure devotee or a spiritual master, then even though, the Bhagavad-gītā says a devotee will attain birth in heavenly planets,or in a nice material birth. Is it possible that this person will take birth in a pious life after blaspheming the spiritual master? Or does he also come under the Bhagavad-gītā, about the person who…

Jayapatākā Swami: No! The point is, say a devotee, tries to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and doesn’t make it; senses take him off; interested into material life again but whatever time a person spent in doing Kṛṣṇa conscious activity, for that, they get heavenly planet or they get a very good birth in the future. They don’t lose anything you see. The sinful reaction doesn’t affect; the sinful life delays your going back to Godhead but doesn’t stop it because that your credit is in like a fixed account.

But what happens is when you do offenses, this is whole different thing. Offenses are directly...just like you are working for someone, you build up a good credit history and then you steal from him, then you get fired and that person never wants to see you again, right? But say that you know, you work for a person, just somehow you go away, you quit, then whatever you do, but with him your relationship, you know, is the same. This is a little gross kind of material example, it is not fully appropriate.

In a higher sense our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is independent of all the other activities. But an offense against Him or His devotee directly, you see even He can forgive an offense against Him; but when you offend His devotee who is just trying in helping people to come to Him that becomes intolerable for Him. He has a policy that He doesn’t personally forgive anyone for that. If the devotees themselves forgive then He considers a pardon.

So, of all the offenses, the blaspheming of one’s spiritual master who is a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa and is considered to be the worst. So, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that, it takes millions of births before one ever gets a chance to have a guru again. Why Kṛṣṇa will bring you up to a guru if you are going to blaspheme? If you are so envious, then you get put in an envious species of life. So, that way, Śrīla Prabhupāda says that it is much better to fall down from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and just fall into sinful or materialistic activities than to become a blasphemer. You shouldn’t ever resent the guru. If you couldn’t make it, why resent the guru, it is not his fault, you couldn’t make it. You tried, you got as far as you could, or you have that much determination, you lost faith and you lost. So, why resent the guru? Guru didn’t do any harm to you. Guru was trying to help you.

You go to a doctor; you have an incurable disease, or you are hooked on to some kind of drug, the doctor tries to help you to break your habit, but you can’t take the withdrawal pains, so you just go back in and then you continue taking heroin or something until you OD (overdose) and die. Why blaspheme the doctor? It is not his fault; you didn’t have the determination or the patience to get out. He was going to help you through the whole thing, through your shakes and your problems and everything just to bring you up to a point where you could be a healthy person. Like that kind of a thing. When they come they don’t want to go through the withdrawals of their mind agitating them. “I’ll have to give up my bicycle or something whatever”; different attachments. “If I become a devotee my hifi stereo, I cannot listen to all the rock and roll music I wanted to.”, whatever, some different māyās may attract the person. So, then that’s unfortunate but they should see that the guru is just helping them.

Devotee: Can you lose the advancement you make? Since you can’t lose it, because that…

Jayapatākā Swami: If, by… You can lose it.

Devotee: You can lose it if you blaspheme?

Jayapatākā Swami: Oh yeah. Lord Caitanya said that,

yadi vaiṣṇava-aparādha uṭhe hātī mātā
upāḍe vā chiṇḍe, tāra śukhi’ yāya pātā

That the offense of blaspheming a devotee is called mad elephant offense. Because one’s spiritual progress is compared to a creeper, a plant. So, when you blaspheme pure devotees, that mad elephant can go into a garden, uproot the whole plants, tear apart, you can just demolish the garden. So, the comparison given that all the other things are like weeds; they don’t actually kill the original plant, they just compete with it. They stunt its growth by taking away the energy, just stays at whatever level it is. But it is very hard for the weeds all to completely smother out the original plant unless it just completely overcomes the thing. But the offenses, those are considered like wild elephants which come in and trrrrp (tearing sound), rip out the thing, put it on the ground and stomp on it.

And then even for a while it may seem that the person is spiritually situated; they pull out a plant, still the leaves stay green for a few days but then they gradually dry and fall off. The relationship with the guru is never cut even you fall down; it’s not cut just by material activities; but if you blaspheme the guru, then it is cut off, it’s like disowning. Disciple disowns his guru by blaspheming.

Devotee: He takes us back?

Jayapatākā Swami: Of course. Oh yeah. That’s no problem. If the son, you know, starts to beat up the mother and the other brothers so that the father says, “Get the hell out of here, you can’t come back.” But if he comes back to the father and tells the father, “I am a fool. I was indiscreet. I will do just whatever you say” and then father never you know father always going to take back the son. It is like that. But the other children also they consider. One son starts to just you know like you know, there was one kept killing his sister or something in the newspaper. So naturally the father loves all the children, one is creating a big problem, you have to get out. If you want to come back, it’s no problem. That’s the whole thing; that in this life someone has done that type of offense, he should come back, and he should make up for it. His situation is very dangerous if he doesn’t make up for it within this life, then he is finished.

Devotee: Pretty technical, but if… then when he comes back, after he blasphemed, he lost all his advancement. Does he start over again, if you lost all his advancement that he had previously made? I know devotees who… here in New Orleans that are heavily blaspheming. They couldn’t come back, but…

Jayapatākā Swami: Well you know, this… Kṛṣṇa is keeping the score. Every individual has got their own score card. It is very hard to say exactly what your score is. So, we have seen that devotees who blaspheme they have been reinstated themselves in devotional service but they don’t start off right from where they left, it is a fact. They are little bit at a disadvantage. But then, by their sincere working they again quickly make up ground. Big, big devotees in our movement, some have come back, even after very bad offenses. And by Prabhupāda’s mercy they had some troubles, they definitely had to take a humble position. That way Prabhupāda would usually engage those kind of people who got into offenses in heavy preaching work, type of risk preaching, frontier areas or some heavy situation where we have to do a lot of preaching because by preaching one can be forgiven from offenses and you are helping others, so then that way one gets quickly built up again the devotional service. Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi; Mādhāi was told to do some service to other people, to their spiritual life, that way he was reinstated.

Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

You have any questions, Dave? You had a question?

Devotee: When we chant our rounds, if we’re not properly pronouncing that, does it still have the same effect?

Jayapatākā Swami: How can it have exactly the same effect? We might be chanting Kṛṣṇa’s names but we are not chanting the mahā-mantra. You chant any name of Kṛṣṇa, that will have effect but especially powerful is the mahā-mantra: 16 words, 32 syllables. So, when you leave out a few syllables and names then you are chanting indifferent mantra. You are chanting 14 words, 30 syllable or 28 syllable mantra or something else. So, that will reduce some of the effectiveness, but of course because Kṛṣṇa’s name is Kṛṣṇa, it is very hard to put all that into equations what percent it will be reduced to and so and so forth. But one should try to say the mantra as it is given; if one is inattentive while chanting, it can’t help, but affect.

Dave?

Dave: What is the proper way to pronounce the mantra?

Jayapatākā Swami: You listen to the spiritual masters, how they say it, that is the way you should try to say it. Yes?

Devotee: I was wondering. It seems like, in the material world, there are so many controlling agents like, the modes of material nature and demigods and the Supersoul, and all that, it’s hard when you’re right against kali, uh, any free will… to live extremely sincere as coopera… or is it just the Lord’s mercy that inspires you… you know, inspires us to take up service?

Jayapatākā Swami: One devotee just yesterday was talking with me. Him or her, I forget. And they brought it up in a very nice way that, once all along they were putting off, putting off, being a devotee or surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, and at one point when they finally decided that, “well, if I don’t just one time surrender to Kṛṣṇa, I will never know what I missed. Let us surrender. ” Just made that decision that, “I am going to try to surrender, I am going to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.” As soon as that decision was made then everything sh sh sh (clearing sound), all the doors opened that way.

If a devotee makes a decision that, “I want to just enjoy material life, I don’t want anything with devotional service”, then Kṛṣṇa… then māyā opens all the doors. Out of nowhere the old girlfriend comes or this one comes or whatever you know all the different arrangements, they happen. And when one makes a decision that they want to be a devotee, that is a decision has to be made, these are the main two decisions, after that, then the demigods and the three modes, they offer you know, the various alternatives for adjoining material life and then Kṛṣṇa, He offers the way for performing devotional service, through His different devotees.

But the basic decision that is the real decision, “Do I want to… Is my goal in life to enjoy all out, enjoy material nature? Or is it to all out serve Kṛṣṇa?” And when we are in between there, kind of, that, that is the point when we get buffed around, we don’t really, we are kind of just innocent that time, sometimes we try to enjoy, sometimes we think, “Well I may be…”. When we’re in that kind of undecided state… Of course that’s a very… that’s a very distressful state, the person that’s completely just sold out to ignorance, they’re… they’re at that point they are pretty happy until they get completely smashed again, then they start to again become undecided. But a person completely just in ignorance, just decided “I just want to enjoy the senses, I don’t want to hear anything else, I don’t want to think of anything else.”, for that… for some short amount of time, even there are difficulties happen they will be able to remain ignorant of it for some time. But the devotee rather undeciding first, he has to decide whether which way he wants to go.

So once you decide then Kṛṣṇa helps you, gives you intelligence to remember Him or to forget Him. So there is no karma that, “You can… you should be a devotee by this karma. You have done this activity so now you should be a devotee.” You can come right up to the water but the choice to drink or not, in other words by so many pious activities, so many good activities in previous lives and this and that, one will be brought right up to the gateway. But that point, at that point then if one’s, “Well, no, not yet, not now.” this that; something; excuse, then how long again it will take to accrue that much pious activity to again be given that opportunity, no one can say.

So, in the human form of life, we are given occasionally that opportunity, the human form of life itself, the human birth itself is that opportunity. But even within human life it is not that everyone has the equal chance of really getting up to that choice. Many people never come up to that choice, most of the people. But when someone actually comes to the point where that choice is an alternative that has even entered their mind that means already that person is very, very rare. Out of thousands and thousands he is or she is a very unique person.

But then, if they don’t take that risk, so that might not be a risk; if they don’t take the faith or the courage; there is no risk involved really, if they don’t take that decision, then Kṛṣṇa, then they can’t go any further and they just kind of either stay there for one birth or for one period of time. If they perform a little devotional service, then they may be able to just maintain even for many births at that level. As long as they don’t commit offenses, as long as they are doing a little devotional service, then they kind of just stay at that same level, until they finally either decide that, “Yes, I want to surrender to Kṛṣṇa” and then from there one steps over the threshold and goes into actual spiritual life, or till one just all changed and decides that want to just enter into material sense gratification or worse yet, just offends a devotee.

See other devotees are entering through the door going by just standing there and try to, “Well, should I go in or not?”; “Well should I, should I surrender to Kṛṣṇa or not?” And then so as the people start going by, sometimes we get envious. That envy is a dangerous thing, as we were discussing. Without the envy you can just be standing at the door for a long time thinking about it, but as soon as the offenses come then one is forced down. So, the thing is, that when we are at that stage we should take the decision, what do we have to lose?

You’ve tried so many things. To a materialist it doesn’t seem like much different. Doesn’t seem like; “Well, I have done so many things, but if I try sincerely for two months to do everything that a devotee is supposed to do and see what happens”. And if one just makes even that decision that, “I’ll fully surrender and if in two months, I find that nothing happened from it, then I’ll do something else.”

People, once you make a decision, alright I will surrender, even on a short-term basis, you know, “If I don’t get any results within a certain time but my mood is I am going to surrender all out. See what happens.” Just make that decision then you see how things happen *tututch* Kṛṣṇa just makes the arrangements. He leads one right up. One meets a spiritual master, one meets devotees, step-by-step different arrangements are there for one to advance.

Was that your question? I think there was another thing; I think… I feel I’m missing one part of it.

Devotee: Yeah… Well, I was… It seems to me that maybe uh, it might be possible that that your karma can prevent you from… just subtly make you…

Jayapatākā Swami: That’s… that’s a fact. One’s karma can make it difficult for one to decide. If one is very much in the modes of ignorance and passion, then it is harder for the mind to come up to the concept of pure goodness of surrendering to God. So that way karma can stand in your way to a certain extent, it makes it a little more difficult but then that’s why the spiritual master, when a person somehow or another gets close even though there may be difficulties with karma, maybe a person comes, because of karma even they come for a couple of years but just somehow even though they see the devotees, they see what’s going on, they like it but somehow because their desires are still so strong they are being influenced so much by the modes, that really the idea “well, I like to associate with them, I like to be with them but to be one of them or to you know, actually surrender…”, that resolute determination doesn’t come.

So that is where the pure devotees, those who are spiritual masters, who are empowered, they pray to Kṛṣṇa when they see someone in that type of situation, that “Please have your mercy on this person.” or they, through different attempts they try to just help the person get over that karma. That karma is not an absolute obstacle. It’s just like a dead weight or something, it’s a pull.

So, therefore, one needs sometimes little extra mercy. Sometimes the person can see that just like coming up for breaths of air you can see, just like you get over the clouds, you can see the clear expanse that I am just being tied down by so many karmas, by so many desires, and you just get a little glimpse. At that time, if you just cry out, help, to the spiritual master, to Nitāi-Gaura, “Help, please help. I need special help. I am entangled. I am not strong enough to surrender yet, but I need your help.” ? So that way Lord Caitanya, the special part of Their movement is that Their special characteristic is That They help people who are entangled like that in karmas.

People who are very elevated, who are on top of the mountain of karma so to speak, they are in goodness situation but who are still proud, they think that “Well, because I am riding on the wave right now I don’t need anyone, I don’t… Kṛṣṇa owes me something”; those people Lord Caitanya doesn’t care for much, neglects them. But those who are wanting to get that mercy, but even though they are entangled in so many results of karma, they may not be very rich, or they may not be very learned, or they just may not be fortunate. But somehow or another whatever may be the situation, fortunate or unfortunate, they just some time or another they just cry out, “Please help me, please help me to surrender to you.” Then, He lifts them up. Sometimes one doesn’t even have the guts or whatever just to even cry out, please help me. Sometimes, just out of their own, a devotee sees that, “This person could be a nice devotee. Kṛṣṇa, please help him.” That way just by the mercy of the spiritual master, just by coming and doing a little service, then one gets the mercy.

Yes. Alright, anyone didn’t have ask any question?

Devotee: Once you have seen the things that a… (inaudible) master, what advice, spiritual, can you expect?

Jayapatākā Swami: One of the advices for how we should advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are told that we should avoid niyamāgraha. Niyama means rules of the scriptures. Agraha, it is a peculiar way in Sanskrit, when you combine two words then niyamāgraha could mean niyamagraha or āgraha. So niyamāgraha means to be very enthusiastic for the rules, overly enthusiastic. And agraha means to neglect the rules. Graha means to accept and agraha means to neglect.

So, someone who neglects the rules, just avoids you know, “I don’t care for it.”, that is one aspect. We are discussing someone who is a fanatic, that means that he is overly attached to the rule without seeing what is the underlying purpose. Sometimes there are various rules and each rule has its relative importance in the different situations.

So, a person may just stick to one particular set of rules and just very expertly do those rules. At the same time, they’re not at all becoming purified. They are actually not getting any closer to God; they are just fanatically doing the rules. Even it’s sometimes, even offensive to God. Because of other consideration if they are just willingly, willfully just neglecting; there are always higher principles of mercy, of respecting great devotees of so many different principles.

Just like one time, Śrīla Prabhupāda went to a businessman’s house and who had invited him to come there but then the person sent out a message that, “I am busy doing my pūjā, I can’t come and receive you right now. You have to wait”. So, he made Prabhupāda wait an hour while he finished his pūjā. Prabhupāda said that this person is a neophyte, doesn’t know when the spiritual master comes, you are supposed to receive him, especially.

Then there was another person who was doing his pūjā. As soon as he saw that Prabhupāda had come, he dropped everything and came out. Prabhupāda said “You didn’t finish your pūjā.”, he said, “More important than worshipping Kṛṣṇa is worshipping His devotees.” So that was a contrast. That person knew what was supposed to be done. The other person was just fanatically doing. He doesn’t know that he is making so many offenses throughout his day that the only way he can actually advance is by the mercy of some devotees. Instead he is so proud, “I am just doing my thing, I am already… then he go out and I have done my pūjā. Oh yeah, oh yes, come in. Thank you for coming.” So those people are far removed.