19821217 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.19.41

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on December 17, 1982 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 8th Canto, Chapter 19, Verse 41.

parāg riktam apūrṇaṁ vā akṣaraṁ yat tad om iti
yat kiñcid om iti brūyāt tena ricyeta vai pumān
bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan nālaṁ kāmena cātmane
(ŚB 8.19.41)

Translation: The utterance of the word om signifies sepāration from one’s monetary assets. In other words, by uttering this word one becomes free from attachment to money because his money is taken away from him. To be without money is not very satisfactory, for in that position one cannot fulfill one’s desires. In other words, by using the word om one becomes poverty-stricken. Especially when one gives charity to a poor man or beggar, one remains unfulfilled in self-realization and in sense gratification.

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Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: Mahārāja Bali wanted to give everything to Vāmanadeva, who had appeared as a beggar, but Śukrācārya, being Mahārāja Bali’s familial spiritual master in the line of seminal succession, could not appreciate Mahārāja Bali’s promise. Śukrācārya gave Vedic evidence that one should not give everything to a poor man. Rather, when a poor man comes for charity one should untruthfully say, “Whatever I have I have given you. I have no more.” It is not that one should give everything to him. Actually, the word om is meant for oṁ tat sat, the Absolute Truth. Oṁkāra is meant for freedom from all attachment to money because money should be spent for the purpose of the Supreme. The tendency of modern civilization is to give money in charity to the poor. Such charity has no spiritual value because we actually see that although there are so many hospitals and other foundations and institutions for the poor, according to the three modes of material nature a class of poor men is always destined to continue. Even though there are so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven from human society. Therefore, it is recommended here, bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan nālaṁ kāmena cātmane. One should not give everything to the beggars among the poor.

The best solution is that of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement is always kind to the poor, not only because it feeds them but also because it gives them enlightenment by teaching them how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are therefore opening hundreds and thousands of centers for those who are poor, both in money and in knowledge, to enlighten them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and reform their character by teaching them how to avoid illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling, which are the most sinful activities, and which cause people to suffer, life after life. The best way to use money is to open such a center, where all may come live and reform their character. They may live very comfortably, without denial of any of the body’s necessities, but they live under spiritual control, and thus they live happily and save time for advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has money, it should not be squandered away on nothing. It should be used to push forward the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that all of human society will become happy, prosperous and hopeful of being promoted back home, back to Godhead. The Vedic mantra in this regard reads as follows:

parāg vā etad riktam akṣaraṁ yad etad om iti tad yat kiñcid om iti āhātraivāsmai tad ricyate; sa yat sarvam oṁ kuryād ricyād ātmānaṁ sa kāmebhyo nālaṁ syāt.

Thus end the purport of text 41, chapter 19, Canto 8 of the chapter in the matter of “Lord begs charity from Bali Mahārāja” of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam the great Purāṇa.

Jayapatākā Swami: Now we know why India is broke. Too much Om; not enough Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) Hindu, Hindu sammelans, big Hindu melās, gatherings, they all have all the people yell out in unison Om. When they want to make a vote, all in favor say Om. Then they give their charity not to the Kṛṣṇa conscious people but only to opening hospitals for beggars, all these things.

So here we can see Śukrācārya thought, they are going to be separated from all their wealth. That’s why they are so poor. They stopped serving Kṛṣṇa because of Śaṅkarācārya philosophy, impersonal philosophy. Because actually wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lakṣmī.

Lakṣmī or the Goddess of Fortune who represents all wealth and opulence. She is always desired by the materialist. They are always praying to Lakṣmī to be with them, their fortune to be with them especially the gamblers, and the business people. And in general, the materialist who always want the good fortune or the Goddess of Fortune to be with them. But She is known as Cañcala. She is very fickle, very whimsical in where she stays. I mean, she doesn’t just stay, she is kind of restless; she doesn’t stay in one place very long. She stays some time and then goes away. But there is one place she always stays, and that’s on the chest of Kṛṣṇa, on the chest of Nārāyaṇa. She is always either serving His lotus feet, or is on His chest, but she’s always with Nārāyaṇa.

So, if someone wants to get the Goddess of Fortune, the easiest way is to capture Kṛṣṇa, you see. So, Kṛṣṇa, He can be captured very easily by engaging in saṅkīrtana, by glorifying Him. Saṅkīrtana means to glorify the Lord. When many people glorify together, it is saṅkīrtana. When several together, it is kīrtana. When it is individual, then it is japa or kīrtana, like that. Just like now all over the world, devotees, they may not be physically in one place but in consciousness they are all together. They are all engaged in the saṅkīrtana-yajña. And they are all engaged in glorifying Kṛṣṇa.

So, this saṅkīrtana-yajña, glorifying Kṛṣṇa, actually will bring good fortune to all of the people both materially and spiritually. Even if a person is engaged somehow or another in service of Kṛṣṇa unknowingly, which is known as ajñāta-sukṛti, or an unknown good work, an unknown service to Kṛṣṇa, that means that by accident a person does, even then that person is benefited.

There is a story in the Vedas about a ghee wick which was going out, and at that moment one little mouse I believe, mouse or cockroach, or something. I think it is a mouse came up and started to poke at the little cotton swab to eat the whatever ghee was left, but the flame was just flickering and about to go out. When the mouse pushed it to eat it, then it shot up. Because then the flame got some more wicks to burnt on, and it shot up. The mouse got scared and ran away. So that mouse was elevated to, to Vaikuṇṭha because of the service that it had done. It didn’t have to take birth again. Then that service... It was taken just after that the mouse died. It was taken that it had offered āratī to the Lord. By pushing that light went up. It was about to go out, so it had done. Of course, the mouse had no idea whatsoever. So, this was an ajñāta-sukṛti.

In other words, even a little service especially if it is done directly for the Lord, that is so imp… so important. In fact, it the duty of the brahmacārīs especially, to go and beg on behalf of the spiritual master. In India, Prabhupāda gave the example that every day the brahmacārī should go door to door to the gṛhasthas, and they would collect alms, and they would bring it back to the spiritual master. He personally told us how in their collection… At one point for Bhaktisiddhānta when they were preaching just in the beginning, the Gauḍīya Maṭha had just started in Calcutta, that there was so little collection that there was hardly enough for everyone. In fact, it wasn’t enough. There was just enough for Bhaktisiddhānta and a little left. So, they would first give everything, prepare and give everything to the spiritual master, and Bhaktisiddhānta would be crying that how and praying to Kṛṣṇa to send more because it wasn’t enough for everyone, you see. So, it was a great austerity; it was a test by Kṛṣṇa, but they continued. And of course, eventually the Gauḍīya Maṭha by the preaching of Bhaktisiddhānta, his purity, it expanded more and more, and they got over those difficulties.

So sometimes there is difficulty, and sometimes there is some better situations. But the devotee is supposed to do this austerity in order to develop humility, determination, being detached. Whether a person gives or doesn’t give, one is not going to stop trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or to try to collect from the next person, you see. One gives the opportunity; one tries to be more and more expert in presenting in a positive way the proposition of serving Kṛṣṇa. And depending on that person’s good fortune, and the devotee’s desire, and the mercy of the Lord, that person will be able to engage in service or not. So, everyone who by the mercy of the devotee somehow or another is able to engage in devotional service, that is to their permanent benefit.

We read about how a person to come into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they need some previous assets in most cases. Of course, Lord Caitanya’s special mercy is there, that even someone without assets can be brought in. But how is that performed? It is done by devotee engaging someone in service. That starts to build up their spiritual assets.

For a person to come in to the temple and if he is immediately has a urge to engage in devotional service, he is eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa, he has some attraction for chanting, that is a very advanced stage. If someone just walks off the street and has these symptoms, well that is every indication that, that person probably was engaging in some kind of devotional service in his previous life.

In most cases, people are not very interested in spiritual life. They don’t have very much attraction, and basically, they are absorbed in their material thoughts and material affairs. So, if a devotee out of his causeless mercy goes out and engages those people in service, getting donations (for them) from them, giving them literature, using the money collected, giving it to Kṛṣṇa and using it to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the greatest benediction for people, you see. That Lakṣmī should not be used for sense gratification. It should only be used for the devotional service of the Lord.

Śrīla Prabhupāda explained that, “If a person accepts a donation, he becomes indebted to the person who gives the donation. And as a result, he may have to accept that person as his son or daughter in a future life to pay back the debt of that person giving money, if he uses that money for his own sense gratification. Therefore, the profession of begging is considered to be very risky in terms of karma.” 

But a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee doesn’t use the money for sense gratification, gives it to the service of Guru and Kṛṣṇa. So whatever karma, whatever is absorbed that person becomes, rather Kṛṣṇa becomes indebted to him in that sense. So that person gets rewarded by opportunities to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more and to ultimately achieve complete liberation, you see. Of course, if the devotee doesn’t complete the cycle, then of course, he may have an unusual son in the future. It’s hard to say, but this is the karma involved.

So sometimes people are very stingy; they don’t want to give any money. I remember that one time, this devotee was preaching in Calcutta, and the person was very very friendly “Oh! You are great devotees! You have blessed my house.” You know, very very enthusiastic type Indian gentleman. And after about an hour of him talking and preaching and very friendly, the boy asked if he could pay one rupee and buy a magazine, you see. He gave a magazine. “Oh! What a beautiful magazine! This is a wonderful thing.” Big house and then he said “Yes, could you give a donation of a rupee to cover the printing cost?”

“Oh! It is not free?” Then he gave back the magazine and then he offered, “Please, please take a glass of water.”

“No, no, that’s okay.”

“No! no! Please take a glass!”

He is forcing to take a glass. "No! No! No!" He would give a glass. Finally, “All right, you can give water. I'll take some water.” (laughs)

So sometimes you get people that they are so miserly. That to actually do some practical service to Kṛṣṇa, they just don’t want to do it. They are willing to do everything but actually part with that thing which is dear to them, their money, their Lakṣmī, give it to the service of Kṛṣṇa.

One other story Prabhupāda told us, that there was a brahmacārī, he was collecting door to door, but nobody was giving any donations. Nobody, nothing, nothing. They just, every place he was going, they would refuse. Finally, he went to one house and the lady of the house came out and he said, “Can you offer any donation for service to Guru and Kṛṣṇa?”

She called back to her husband, he was sitting eating his meal. “There is a brahmacārī here. He wants to know if we have anything to give.”

He said, “No, we don’t have anything.” She said, “Nothing? Anything.”

He said, “Nothing. Anything do we have? Tell him he can have the ashes from our wood fire.”

She said, “Oh! You can have the ashes from our fire.”

You know, what is the value of ash? You see, no value. It’s like, “Hey, you can have our cigarette butts from the ashtray.” It’s nothing.

So, the brahmacārī by that time he said, “Nobody has even offered anything. At least they are offering something.”

So, he said, “Alright, give it. Why don’t you? Why all the talk?” (chuckles) Then Prabhupāda was laughing. “Give me your ashes. Stop talking about it,” you know. (chuckles)

The point is that even they talk about it but then… give it, at least go through the effort of giving something, you benefit. So generally, the gṛhasthas... we see here, Śukrācārya, his mood. He says, “All right, give a person a donation, but tell him it’s all you got. Just give him some token. Don’t, this is Viṣṇu He is going to take everything.”

This is what he is actually saying. “This logic may be all right for some ordinary beggar but of course this is Viṣṇu, this is Viṣṇu, He is going to take everything.” So, Bali Mahārāja, he is a devotee at heart. His grandfather is Prahlāda Mahārāja. He knows that, “My duty is to give to Viṣṇu everything. He is the possessor. He is begging from me, and I promised. How can I refuse Him?”

Śukrācārya is using the ordinary morality, ordinary logic of the Vedas that, “If some beggar comes, obviously you don’t give the beggar everything because then he will take everything, and he may misuse it, and you won’t have any money. How will you be able to materially be functional? How will you spiritually be able to engage in your service to Kṛṣṇa?”

It’s like a material moral instruction of the Vedas, practical instruction for ordinary cases. This is not an ordinary case. Viṣṇu Himself is coming, you see. So, in the same way, that... there people might think that, “Well, I give something to these devotees, something to these people.” But actually, even if they gave everything, they wouldn’t be the loser. If they give everything to an ordinary beggar, they may lose. But if they gave everything to the devotee, even if they gave more than what they would think is ordinarily appropriate, actually still they benefit unlimitedly; like so much more.

In fact, there was one great businessman in Calcutta who was very devoted to Bhaktisiddhānta. And then at the end of his life when he understood Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvati Ṭhākura wanted to build a temple at Māyāpur for Lord Caitanya, he gave every last penny, lakhs of rupees, everything. He was what they called lakhapatī, that means he was hundred-thousandaire, which in those days it was like being a millionaire in these days. And he gave everything right to the last penny, the last paisa, gave the whole thing to Bhaktisiddhānta.

And then Bhaktisiddhānta, I believe, only gave one Babaji. That was the only person he gave Babaji. He said he wasn’t able to do much preaching. He was always doing business; he was old. He said, “You just stay here.” He stayed by their temple and chanted japa for the rest of his life and did little service in the temple. That… Just as you go on the gate of Lord Caitanya’s birthplace, you see on the left there is a little temple, and that person’s deity is there. They put a little deity and his samādhī, I believe. Must be samādhī or some temple there. And that’s history of that person.

He gave everything. So, actually giving everything like that, he became completely liberated. He… Kṛṣṇa then automatically - ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (Bg 4.11). Kṛṣṇa says, “As a person surrenders unto Me, so I reciprocate with him.” So naturally that person gave everything then Kṛṣṇa will give him everything, give him His eternal devotional service.

Kṛṣṇa sees how much we are holding back. If we don’t hold anything back, if we are trying, or at least we are desiring, or trying to not hold anything back then naturally Kṛṣṇa will reciprocate fully. So, in every type of service, there are certain times when there is an intense opportunity of surrender, you see.

In the temple president service, there are times which are very trying, which are... put lot of pressure on a person. Time in different preaching... There are these times of pressure while in saṅkīrtana, of course. The time when the most pressure is put on is during the time of marathon. When one, all out from morning to night tries to focus all of the energy. And especially in the west, there is a good opportunity that comes is this Christmas time, when people still to some extent have some kind of a mood of giving in charity.

And actually, generally they are just giving to beggars, or generally just giving just to their own family members. Charity begins at home and probably usually ends there too. But in general, they have a little bit of giving mood. They get some bonus or some extra pay checks also. So, it’s an opportunity for the devotees to create an unlimited good sukṛti, a good spiritual asset, for so many people even they know, or they don’t know.

If they knowingly give that, oh this is for Kṛṣṇa, of course, they will benefit even more by their conscious gift. Even if unknowingly they give, still they benefit. As long as we very carefully see that everything goes to Kṛṣṇa. In fact, if a person knowingly gives, but the devotee doesn’t give, then that person even gets the benefit, you see. Then Prabhupāda also said, “But then that devotee will get an offense.” But if they unknowingly give, then, of course, that depends on the devotee what he uses it for. Then accordingly they get a… the reciprocation.

So, everyone in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving everything for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Prabhupāda said that gives unlimited, an unlimited reciprocation. A person who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness that means that all the people that are being delivered. Say a person contributes, he gets the share of the preaching which is an unlimited factor.

Preaching means to liberate the souls from material birth and death. So, in that way, they benefit so much that it’s beyond any exact calculation. So, it’s a great opportunity. So, if the devotees very enthusiastic to try to reach every possible person, you see maybe by just a little more enthusiasm, more concentrated effort, another ten people are reached, another twenty people are reached.

Of course, on this side we also get Lakṣmī which we can use for preaching for our programs, for book distribution, which is needed. Not that we are abstract, detached from money. I remember one time, Prabhupāda gave an example that in India there is this one sādhu, he collects lakhs of rupees, lot of money, you see. But he won’t personally touch it. He will all put it down in front, and he’ll, you know... he’ll if they... turn his hand like this away and put on a whole thing. He’ll have his secretaries pick it all up, but he will not touch money.

So, then Prabhupāda said that, “I will not go like this, you know, and turn my hand. I will go like this - two hands. You give. (laughter) You give as much money you like because I will use it for Kṛṣṇa.” You see. We are not impersonalists. Actually, that impersonalist, what does he need money for? They have no real use for money. Still they are collecting money and building temple, even though they are not actually preaching. So, it is ridiculous the whole act they put on.

So Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is very straight forward, you see. It’s not that we have anything to be shy about. We have every right. We are like tax collectors. We have every right to collect Lakṣmī from the hands of materialists and engage it in the hands of, in the service of Kṛṣṇa.

Of course, a preacher is like a white sheet. Meaning that if there are any type of blemishes or any kind of complaints, then in the future that shows up a lot and makes it more and more difficult to preach. So, one has to try to avoid creating any kind of stigma in people’s mind for giving in the future. That means that I’ll be, you know, that one has to use some discretion in using the different tactics.

At the same time, one has to try to engage as many people as possible, as much as they can be engaged. And by this, then one is actually doing them a big service. And that’s also giving the facility of printing so many more books, of doing so many other devotional services for the services of the Lord. So, this is the basic understanding.

Here Śukrācārya is very conscious about preserving the wealth. But we understand that by Prabhupāda’s instruction, that it is more important to be very conscious to see that all wealth is used in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then one fortune, and one’s success in life, spiritually, materially, every aspect is preserved. Just as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (Bg 9.22), you see, “I’ll give you what you… I’ll preserve what you have and provide what you need,” you see, for the devotees.

So the devotee is simply, his responsibility is simply to see that his every thought, word and deed is engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa, He looks out for His devotee. The more we are able to depend upon Kṛṣṇa, the more Kṛṣṇa will reciprocate with that.

That dependence doesn’t mean non-action. It means active dependence. It means taking initiative to serve Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of Guru, under the guidance of the Vaiṣṇavas, under the control of the spiritual discipline. And within that service learning to depend upon Kṛṣṇa, learning to take one’s enthusiasm, take one’s inspiration from Kṛṣṇa. Not from material causes which may or may not be there. So, in this way, one becomes very steady, and becomes very determined more and more to be fixed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

Any questions? Yes?

Devotee: So what is the… ultimately the whole purpose of saṅkīrtana is not (indistinct) how big you do… (indistinct).

Jayapatākā Svāmī: Well, best… what they say? Good better and best. One side of it is, a devotee how sincerely he is trying. If a person is trying, not diverting any energy. It’s just like everything has its intensity. A person may be engaged the whole time, but then the tempo or the momentum may be say half speed of what his potential was.

Just like in a type of war situation, a person is just pushed to the limits. You read the Rāmāyaṇa how Hanumān and these people, they are fighting against those asuras, with Rāvaṇa. I mean the fight was so vicious and so… they are lifting mountain tops, and they are being... having their arms cut off. They’re just going full speed; day after day after day, it’s going on. One after another, Rāvaṇa is sending out his generals, sending out his son, sending out and they are fighting.

See of course, Rāvaṇa’s always get killed one after another, but there was lot of casualties even on the side of Rāma. Of course, by some mystic arrangement, they are able to save everyone. But there were a lot of strain was put on everyone in that situation.

So even Mother Yaśodā, you see, her intensity of serving Kṛṣṇa was so great; the gopīs intensity of serving Kṛṣṇa was so great, that there wasn’t... It was so intense that when Uddhava came there, he couldn’t believe that how every moment they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa to such extent that they are mad after Kṛṣṇa. That they… That Rādhārāṇī was speaking to bumblebees.

We find that Yaśodā, she was always completely in anxiety for serving Kṛṣṇa. Now the materialists, even the great impersonalist, yogīs, they can’t understand that, what type of… this person is in anxiety. So how can that anxiety be understood as any kind of spiritual asset? But in being anxious to serve Kṛṣṇa, in being enthusiastic to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is transcendental.

And the proof is that those devotees would never exchange an ordinary anxiety as misery. If you offer someone that you take whatever... Nowadays you take what? A lithium or something like that. Lithium… They give these little pills, whatever... Valium... Take this Valium in exchange for anxiety. So, they say it’s much better than anxiety. “I’ll just take a pill,” you see. Or they take something else. They take a drink, or something. Everyone wants to get rid of anxiety. But these devotees, they never want to get rid of their anxiety, that anxiety because it is filled with love for Kṛṣṇa.

So of course, a devotee should not be… what in English, nonchalant, or they shouldn’t be just like take it for granted. Obviously, there will be, always be the desire to be more fixed up, to be more enthusiastic. Enthusiasm is not an absolute; it’s not a constant. That at this point, you know this enthusiasm is something which can always have higher and higher dimensions. So of course, in that sense, a devotee never feels self-satisfied that, “Well, I have already now peaked. Now I am at the apex. I have done it. There is no higher, no greater position I can go to.”

That mood is not there in devotional service. It’s one of ever increasing. But when it gets to a certain point, it’s already so exalted that from any objective viewpoint, you can understand that person is already completely liberated. That to his all the energy is going simply to Kṛṣṇa, and therefore there is no karma being produced whatsoever.

So of course, in the beginning, there may be less intensity in our devotional service. Even we more or less able to keep our consciousness. But it’s just like heat. You have water; you put little heat on it, and you see, like it when you see when it gets closer and closer to boiling, the water is moving so fast. You can see if you put a little grain of rice in it moving around. And finally, when it boils, it’s just, you know, exploding the water.

So, like that, a devotional service can also have more and more heat put on it, you know, not so much that we can’t handle it. But gradually we… we go on trying to increase that… that... that type of intense link with Kṛṣṇa. So, in that sense, one shouldn’t take it for granted. That well, one should always be trying to do more.

But if a person is sincerely trying, and if he is not engaging in any other type of activity, his mind is absorbed in the service. Of course, he should be trying more and more to increase that intensity, increase the fixation on Kṛṣṇa, the focus on Kṛṣṇa. Of course, that’s, that’s, that is completely transcendental; that’s absolute good. That is nothing wrong with that.

Now if a person able to even increase upon that, say you are able to meet so many people, just like a person is able to engage hundred people, and they give something for Kṛṣṇa, so that’s wonderful. There is nothing to say wrong about that whatsoever. That person should be glorified above all great yogīs and above everything else. But if another person is able to use the same opportunities and able to engage hundred people twice as much or able to engage the hundred people… no, two hundred people in the same period of time, so that’s better. Not that we don’t say, it’s better. Surely, it’s better.

If Kṛṣṇa is going to judge... Each person may have a capacity. It maybe that, that person is even working only half his capacity, you know. Due to some… Materially a person may have that much physical strength, that he is working at full capacity to reach the hundred. Another person may be so physically and mentally strong, he could reach five hundred, but he reached two fifty, you see. So, in that sense, Kṛṣṇa is going to be the ultimate judge to what a person has a capacity also materially, you see.

Just like sometimes when a crippled or something does some devotional service, people are very amazed that, “Oh that person is crippled! How is he doing it?” Because he has little less capacity for material activities, still he is doing like that. So Kṛṣṇa is going to see better, good, better, and best, you see.

Best of course is if one is completely absorbed, you see. At a certain point, it becomes… At least from our point of view, that a person is so fully absorbed that there is no spilling of any energy, and the person gets the reciprocation from Kṛṣṇa constantly. And the people are engaged not only in giving, but actually they become attracted to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So, we are always trying to go higher and higher in our intensity of devotional service, but we don’t look at it in a material sense. That if a person doesn’t have the same capacity, but he is trying hard then we’re completely... that person is glorified. You can’t consider exactly at that level.

But of course, a leader or a senior person, who is responsible to help that person in devotional service, should see whether or not that person is working up to their capacity, you see. If they can work even… If they have a greater capacity, then that person is going to get more reciprocation from Kṛṣṇa by giving out more energy. And the only way you can know is sometimes by putting a little pressure and then you can see.

Like in business, what they do is they give a person more and more, more and more responsibility until finally the person can’t handle it. Then they reduce it. They have a term for that. They keep putting a person promotions, until he gets to the Senior Vice President, he can’t handle it. Now he is finished. Then he’ll never get another promotion again.

As long as the person takes on more and more and more and more and more responsibility and handles it, they keep on promoting him. And if he peaks out, he doesn’t handle it any more, “All right, you stay in this position.” It’s very hard for them to get promotions.

So, it is like that in devotional service, we go on. The only way we can know what our capacity is, take a little more. And if you find our consciousness strained, we get too distracted, all right then we say, you know we take the humble attitude, and we try to maintain whatever level we can. So, these types of intense pressure, it also builds up. It is like weight lifting, it builds up our capacity also.

Sometimes we take this intense for short time, we can take a little extra load. All the time we may not be able to maintain but for little time you maintain and then that actually increases our capacity more and more.

In the Asian Games in Delhi, a person, he did a compress or something snap, I don’t know. He did some kind of weight lifting. He did 358 kilos. Broke the world record. And so they are only allowed three in the Olympic Games. But he had already broke the record. And then the other person said, “I want a chance” because he had done 357 or something like that. So then because he had already… so there were extra snap. The competition was already over, but this was just for making the record cause all the judges were there; it was official.

So then, the other person snapped 385 and a half, beat by half. Then the other person, “I get one more chance.” He did you know 350, whatever, was another half because, you know, at that moment there was so much pressure so that they had some extra special…

for the times when if I didn’t, you know if I just stuck to it, and I tolerated that stress, and I worked under it and tried to fulfill the duties that Prabhupāda gave. That was the time when I... after I surrendered to the stress, after I just like went with it, I didn’t try to fight it. Instead, I tried to surrender and just go with it. I found the most intense feeling of reciprocation with the previous spiritual masters and Kṛṣṇa.

So generally, we all have our little governor in our consciousness - how much we want to give to Kṛṣṇa. We don’t realize it, but we have a governor. We have our little limit. That we think up to this point, and then Kṛṣṇa takes us to that point. Then we don’t want to surrender beyond that point. But if we just surrender, then we realize that, “Well…” In this way, we go on to higher and higher reciprocation with Kṛṣṇa.

Sometimes it is physical surrender, sometimes it’s more mental attachments, different things. That’s why this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement itself is a… what do you say... it’s a boiling the ghee, something like that. It’s where you actually... It forces people to surrender. It’s very difficult for materialists and non-devotees to stay in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, just like presence by different people. After some time, they all run away, it is too difficult. Because Kṛṣṇa forces a person either to surrender or, you know, to just find it incompatible.

So of course, generally, in association of devotees people find it compatible when they’re sincerely desiring to be God conscious, desiring to achieve the truth. Then they just go on advancing. If a person is not sincere, then there is some conflicts in the person’s mind. A person gets many chances to get over that. And if a person can get over all these little conflicts, then a person can achieve Kṛṣṇa even in this life.

Hare Kṛṣṇa. More questions on Deity. More questions?

Devotee: Where does the stress come from when someone who is increasing his devotional service? Why is it there?

Jayapatākā Swami: Attachment. All off of… Sometimes the stress is external. Sometimes obstacles are put up by demons. So that creates a kind of distressful situation, but if a person by learning to surrender to Kṛṣṇa in those times, by being tolerant, you see... We have to learn tolerance. Something that we have forgotten. Something that can be, tolerance level can be built up, you see.

Just like in the airplane, I was flying over… and... Singapore Airline, there was one person who was very nasty to the steward. But the steward completely kept his cool and just returned by saying, “Yes, sir, I will…" The person was completely obnoxious, completely off the wall or something. But the person just became very cool in reciprocation and just very suavely, you know, replied the person.

I was in Eastern Airways and some person who had drunk a few drinks just said a little something. An American guy said, “You are not getting any drinks! You want to stay on the plane? No drinks! Otherwise, you get off!” This is the way he dealt, you know. A person immediately... He could have held it nicer. “Listen buddy, you had too many. Take it easy,” you know. But no, the guy was so much on the air that steward, that as soon as he said, immediately, you know, he got all riled up.

So, you know, it’s a question of training. Therefore, Singapore Airline gets a number one rating in the world, and Eastern is not within the rating, within America. They don’t make even the top ten anyway. But Singapore and Swiss are considered to be the best service in the world in terms of airline just because the stewards there are trained.

So, we can also be trained in tolerance, you see. Generally, in America, we are trained not to be very tolerant for any kind of austerity. Rather they go out to no end of creating new inventions - how you can avoid any kind of austerity, you see.

While living in India, one has to always take austerity because there is just no facility for aust… for anything but austerity. There is no modern facilities like that but... on one level. Here I find it very austere in the West for other reasons. Different type of austerities. Anyway, it is all relative.

But the main thing is we build up our tolerance to accept these different kinds of difficulties that may come up. And rather than relate with them or start to become body-conscious and mental-conscious unnecessarily - to become agitated by them, we overcome them by fixing our mind on Kṛṣṇa.

Yes?

Devotee: I’ve heard that then, when you tolerate that stress and continue to serve, that mean your attachment went away?

Jayapatākā Swami: Yes, especially if you tolerate them. Just like it says in the Nectar of Devotion, “Say that you stub your foot, at that moment instead of saying ouch or something or whatever some other thing, then you say Kṛṣṇa. So that you don’t have to take another… just by that alone, you can get liberation.”

So the point is that when you are in distress, then where do you turn to? You turn to your mind. You turn to some other shelter. Where do you take shelter? When the pressure is on, where do you go for shelter, you know?

I know devotees who chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, but when the going gets rough, when they get agitated, when they have difficulty, you know, they go out and take a drug on the side. They bloop, kind of half-bloop, and now they are very weak.

If there is any difficulty, they can’t learn. They don’t take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Instead they go on take drugs. Therefore, you know, they take a marijuana or something. Of course, those are people not generally in our temples. But I know there is people like that. That as soon as going gets rough, they surrender to māyā, you see. Instead of chanting more intensely, hearing more carefully, reading the śāstras, absorbing… taking shelter. My mind is being agitated by something, either my own body or some external cause, and so at that moment, to actually depend on, take shelter of Kṛṣṇa that is the best training for us.

If we learn to depend on Kṛṣṇa in difficulty, then at time of death, when it comes the final exam, when that death is facing us, we are not going to turn to something else, “Oh! I am in big trouble now, give me this, give me no.” No. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then we go back to Kṛṣṇa.

Death is a very painful thing, painful situation. So how are we going to face that if we are already completely habituated to facing so many difficulties and always depending on Kṛṣṇa, if it is a reflex. Any difficulty comes we learn to depend on Kṛṣṇa. Then naturally, in death we will depend on Kṛṣṇa. In every situation, we will depend upon Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, the devotee is always protected. But if we learn to depend on any other material thing, then we have to again come back till we learn not to rely on any designation or anything else other than Kṛṣṇa. He is our only crutch, He is our guide, guru and Kṛṣṇa. Remember the words of the guru. Is that all right?

Devotee: Jaya.

Jayapatākā Swami: People always make so many crutches. America is the land of crutches. (laughs) Big, big leaders depending on having, you know, so many drinks a day, and so many pills. So many this and so many that. If they don’t have it, you know, so many cigarettes.

Actually, our philosophy “Simple living and high thinking” means we eliminate unnecessary crutches, you see. We are already limited; we have to depend on the body. If the body doesn’t move, gets sick, we can’t go. We are already limited.

But as far as possible for our own spiritual and mental inspiration, we depend on Kṛṣṇa. So they say, “Well, that’s a crutch!“ But that is only the real thing, you see. That is the only bona-fide crutch. So, if you don’t believe in God, then you say depending on God is well... it’s a non-existing crutch. So therefore, we have no crutch.

And then if you believe in God. If you don’t believe in God that’s the… only depending on God, then what’s the crutch? If I believe on a crutch that doesn’t exist, then that means I am self-sufficient if you are atheist. Right? And if there is God, then what’s the harm? He is the ultimately supporting the whole universe and everything, so what’s the harm?

Everything is depending upon Him by definition. God being the basis, the origin, and the creator of everything. So, depending on Him is completely valid. Everything is depending on Him. So, whether you believe or don’t believe to depend on God, there is nothing wrong. One’s independent of everything else, self-sufficient.

Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Acāryapāda!

Devotee: Śrīla Acāryapāda ki!

Devotees: Jaya!