20091212 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.13.10

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ
paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande
paramānanda-mādhavam
śrī caitanya īśvaram

Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.13.10

karhi sma cit kṣudra-rasān vicinvaṁs
tan-makṣikābhir vyathito vimānaḥ
tatrāti-kṛcchrāt pratilabdhamāno
balād vilumpanty atha taṁ tato 'nye

karhi sma cit—sometimes; kṣudra—very insignificant; rasān—sexual enjoyment; vicinvan—searching for; tat—of those women; makṣikābhiḥ—by honeybees, or the husbands or family members; vyathitaḥ—very much aggrieved; vimānaḥ—insulted; tatra—in that; ati—very much; kṛcchrāt—with difficulty because of spending money; pratilabdhamānaḥ—obtaining sexual enjoyment; balāt—by force; vilumpanti—kidnapped; atha—thereafter; tam—the object of sense enjoyment (the woman); tataḥ—from him; anye—another debauchee.

TRANSLATION

Sometimes, in order to have a little insignificant sex enjoyment, one searches after debauched women. In this attempt, one is insulted and chastised by the women's kinsmen. This is like going to take honey from a beehive and being attacked by the bees. Sometimes, after spending lots of money, one may acquire another woman for some extra sense enjoyment. Unfortunately, the object of sense enjoyment, the woman, is taken away or kidnapped by another debauchee.

PURPORT

In a great forest, honeycombs are very important. People often go there to collect honey from the combs, and sometimes the bees attack and punish them. In human society, those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious remain in the forest of material life simply for the honey of sex life. Such debauchees are not at all satisfied with one wife. They want many women. Day after day, with great difficulty, they try to secure such women, and sometimes, while trying to taste this kind of honey, one is attacked by a woman's kinsmen and chastised very heavily. By bribing others, one may secure another woman for enjoyment, yet another debauchee may kidnap her or offer her something better. This woman hunting is going on in the forest of the material world, sometimes legally and sometimes illegally. Consequently, in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement the devotees are forbidden to have illicit sex. Thus they avoid so many difficulties. One should remain satisfied with one woman, being duly married. One can satisfy one's lusty desires with his wife without creating disturbances in society and being punished for doing so.

* * *

Jayapatākā Swami: Hari om tat sat.

This verse uses the example of a drone, right? Is this used the example of a drone? Drone means male-bee, gets attracted to other bees.

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Jayapatākā Swami: Alright okay! We heard from, so many people, they go to Sundarbans, the forest in the South of Bengal and Bangladesh, that they go there to get the honey and they are looking up in the trees, where the honey hives, they are going in a small boat in a little… very, very…. Creeps… looking. They don’t know that behind the bush there is waiting a tiger, and the tiger knows that the creek goes here, and he is waiting, waiting, and when the man comes close, he leaps. He crush him like a cat crush a… he leaps… this tigers are like eight to ten feet long, they are weighing like six hundred to eight hundred kilos, its like … how many pounds… you can multiply… 2.5… so, they are huge. One hit they can break the neck of a person, and they take him… umh… eat him.

So, all villagers… all … writing, “He was eaten by a tiger. This Vaisnava… he was eaten by a tiger… this is the danger of going after honey. So, they use this example. Apart from this you can be bitten by the beas.

You are in the Sundarbans, you can be eaten by a tiger. So, it is very dangerous to go after honey. There is story that… it is told by Bhakti Siddhantha Saraswati Thakura that one carpeter, he was entering into the jungles, Sundarbans again. That’s where they have the tigers, most, and one old carpenter saw him and said, “You see, if you go in the jungle for wood, you should take with you a gun, there is tiger.” But the young carpeter said, “What I need a gun for? I will cut one branch, I will wave it on my head, and the tiger will run away.” Right? … will run away right? (laughter) … you see, … he was trying to get free wood. So, he is cutting away the wood. One young tiger, only six, seven, feet big you know. only four, five hundred kilos, half a ton. Small. So, he is running down the hill, he sees him running… cutting, hanging on the branch …. Before he grabs the branch the tiger grabs his leg. He starts eating him, he is finished.

So, then another carpenter, honey seeker, all eaten by tigers. So, then there was one devotee, a pure devotee, he went to the village, and he was preaching to all the people they should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare hare. He woke up very early in the morning, as you all are in the habit if doing. He would wake very early in the morning, he went into the forest. So, the villagers thought, Oh no, we warned you that a tiger is there. So, we better go and sent him. So, They went with their guns, and they went into to forest on his footsteps. Then they heard a sound chng chng… of kartals, they opened the bushes and they saw the tigers, the deers and all the animals were chanting Hare Krsna and dancing. And they say …. he was in our protection. He had brought all this wild animals under control, since they were chanting,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa … rbd

So, you understood this story? This is Bhakti Siddhantha Saraswati Thakura’s story.

Every one of those persons is an allegory. Who was the young carpenter? All raise you hand one time. laughter

Devotee: We are taking help from material things.

He is a young devotee, a young devotee, who is very proud of his advancement.

Who is the old carpenter?

Come on. You can get all the answers, but I never saw any one.

He is your guru. And he is driving the young devotee, don’t go there   , there is dangers. But the young carpenter puffed up. He didn’t listen to the guru. He thinks, I will protect myself.

Who is the tiger? Wild animals.

Yea, it is like in this verse. Material or lusty desire for sex life, all kinds of lusty desires.

So, they think I will protect, I shall, I will just at the last minute I will protect. We cannot protect like that. We protect if we chant.

Hare Kṛṣṇa… rbd

Also like Prabhupada gives in a verse that those who have these desires very strong, they get married to one wife, one husband and they stay satisfied with that. Ideally one can be controlled and be very regulated, but … one time there was one devotee in Mayapur, he was caught going to the prostitute. Unfortunately in Mayapur there are prostitutes. They see some maya girls wherever there is some Kṛṣṇa consciousness… he was caught. So, Prabhupada asked, Why did you go to the prostitute? You are a married man. You have a wife, if you want sex life, you can approach you wife. He said, No, my wife has regulated sex. So, I was going to the prostitute… I didn’t know.

You see, going to a prostitute is sinful. Going to a wife, ok maybe it is not regulated, but is not sinful. It is not that kind of sinful. So, like that I was personally present when Prabhupada was preaching like that. If you are not able to fully follow regulated, at least stay with you wife, stay with your husband, don’t go out, at least you are stuck to a man, he is not happy with his wife, or not sufficiently happy. He wants another woman.

We heard that that now in India, in the independence day.. August 26 or something… fifteenth, we have a ratha yatra nearby. One of the newspapers published a big article, “Now India is liberated in the bedroom. You can have sex with anyone.” Before you were?23.20… but now you are liberated. So, this is the liberation that the Indians want. They want to follow the Westerners. But in this verse it is said, there are so many difficulties, apart from all the difficulties now they have AIDS, which is a killer, and if you have many partners, that’s dangerous.

I read in Newspaper, when one… girls… they were chastity rigs, I don’t know where they … girls and boys they were chastity rigs, and only when they have married they have sex. So, that was forbidden by teachers, don’t, it was not allowed in the class. It seems like a good thing, “chastity”. That’s what Prabhupada said is the wealth of the ladies, their chastity. So, in any case. So back to the story. Who were the men with the guns? Allegory… who were the men with the guns? The son…. not the sadhus… the men with the guns… the villagers. You see, to really get into the story, you have to know what each of the persons represents, they represent the karma kanda, that they control the desires, lie, regulating themselves, but they are not free of the desires, they are not pure devotees. So, they regulate and they follow the Karma Kanda. So, that is like taking the guns too shoot off the desires. They are afraid of the desires but they defend themselves by using the Karma Kanda. So, who is the pure devotee? This is the easiest one.

Devoteees: (inaudible)

He is the pure devotee?

In all the wild animals are the material desires, and he controls all of them by engaging them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Kirtan.

So, they are all chanting and dancing. So, this karma kandis, they are all, they don’t need the help of pure devotee because he has all his senses in control by the devotion service, by chanting,

Hare Kṛṣṇa maha-mantra.

So, this is our process of bhakti yoga, that we control our senses by engaging them in Kṛṣṇa’s service. This is the ideal way of engaging our senses, of controlling them.

When I was in Hong Kong on my way to LA, I had association with Kṛṣṇa Kṣetra Prabhu, he was teaching in some Hong Kong university as a professor. So, I asked him to read the Gita. So, he read from the verse from, I think it is from the fifth chapter, or the third chapter, that the enemy is the lust, and it is seated in the mind and in the intelligence. So, in the purport,… so, the enemy, Prabupada addressed him as … in the Gita addressed as the enemy, it is lust. Lust is not far, it is seated in the mind and in the intelligence.

So, in the other yugas even if you think of something lusty, you have to take the karma. In Kali yuga, you only take the karma only when you do it. Because thinking… well, I am sure that, sometimes you might have a lust desire coming into your mind. Maybe, all the time. So, this is the problem in Kali Yuga. But the advantage is that unless we act on it, we don’t suffer the reaction. So, ideal… someone was asking, how do you control your mind, what if you can’t?

So, like when I was a new devotee, my mind was like all the time thinking of different things. So, I read that Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he would chant louder, so I chanted louder and louder, and then the mind would start… Hare Kṛṣṇa. …. I was screaming, I found that it was working. (laughter) But then everyone went and complained to Prabhupada, this crazy bhakta, he is shouting Hare Kṛṣṇa at the top of his lungs in the temple. We cant sing, we can’t hear our japa. So, he called me, and he said, “Why you are shouting Hare Kṛṣṇa?” So, I told him, that I read Haridas Thakura that he chants very loud, and so many thoughts come into my mind.

So, Prabhupada, Hmmm. Prabhupada was a very… but he was at the same time he wanted to keep everything, at that time there were temples in San Francisco, Montreal and New York, all the three temples. Just now I cannot visit all the five hundred temples. He said, did you visit all the five hundred. I didn’t visit, …, Mongolia, Philippines. It is very hard to visit all the temples now. From San Francisco they are going to open up L.A. and from Montreal they are going to open up Vancouver. So, Prabhupada…. He … me, he said, You shouldn’t chant in the temple. You are disturbing everybody. You must chant in the Park, very next to the park, Montreol means mount moreal.. So, there is a park in the New York city, it is called the …31.42... Park, so, I was exiled to the park. There I chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, and there were not …, there were huge squirrels. So, that was how I was dealing with, I read that … you read the book by Bhakti Siddhantha Saraswati Thakira, Vaisnava Ke, who is a Vaisnava? I wrote one commentary. So, there Bhakti Siddhantha Thakura, he preaches to his mind, “mind what kind of Vaisnava are you? You are only thinking of this and that material desires, beautiful woman, or you want to be in some solitary place imitating Hari Dasa thakura. But you are all filled with material desires. You are filled with your pratistha, your desires for gain and fame, it is like a sukarera brishta. It is like the stool of a pig. Pigs eat stool. So, stool of a pig is like … we find stool, stool is stool.

I had a very horrifying experience. I was under… in India I was under some bridge, in the bushes. I had natures call, I am sorry to say this in temple room. Really I shouldn’t say. Is it alright? Ok… so, no sooner that I fulfill my natures call, I heard this sound … out of the bush ran a huge pig and pushed me over and ate my stool hot. Well, it scares me more, because I thought it was taking me, it was not taking me, it wanted my stool. So, stool of a pig, I had a first-hand experience. Pigs eat stool, pig’s stool, you can imagine what that must be like. Stool of stool. Anyway, he said Your pratistha asha is like … your desire for name and fame is like stool of a pig. If you decide to be a pure devotee you get some appreciation anyway. But you don’t try to get appreciation trying to be a pure devotee, and automatically you will be appreciated. That’s like comes with it. But the devotee doesn’t hanker for that. That just comes automatically. That’s all right. But to desire, to do something to get name and fame, that is like the stool of the pig.

Like this you are teaching the mind. Some new devotee asked me, what if you preach to the mind, and still the mind goes to the lusty desires? Then I said, there is another verse, there is another purport by Prabhupada, where he says, you should then ignore the mind, ignore it that this is not… this is my conditioning, I don’t want… I want Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I don’t want this illicit desires. So, like that we can, we can’t defeat, we can control it, we can ignore, we can … it. But no, this is not what you want. This is not me. This is some contamination left from my previous life.

So, somehow or other you can fight against the, the desires, the lust in the mind and the intelligence. We need to engage ourselves in Kṛṣṇa’s service.

Now, Prabhupada, he says that to be a Kṛṣṇa conscious grihastha its a totally different situation, it is a not… you know we talk about under…36.20…, it is not the same thing, it is actually… they are dealing with their desires in a responsible way.

In fact in the samskara dipika by Gopala Bhattta Goswami, he describes the grihastha ashram as the responsible ashram. So, they have to take a lot of responsibilities. You see a lot of grihashthas in this new Dwaraka, and they are all taking some responsibilities. I see some brahmacharis still. Brahmacharis and sanyasis, they are free, you don’t have all the responsibilities of the grihasthas have.

But we have the responsibility to chant,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. (repeated by devotees)

So, some people, it might be better to be brahmacharis, some people maybe be better to be grihasthas, but whatever they are, the idea is, we engage always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and this is the way that we deal with the senses.

So, this is not the same as is mentioned in this verse. It is the materialistic person who is engaged in… trying to satisfy all his desires, and he doesn’t know about Kṛṣṇa consciousness at all. Sometimes there is a mistake that we carry with us, we think that there is a devotee who is in Krsna conscious… in Maya. But actually they maybe very Kṛṣṇa conscious, we don’t know. We don’t know about what their private life is.

As a sanyasai… if you become a sanyasi, you don’t have any private life. Our life is open book, we always have some secretaries around. But grihasthas, they have their private life. So, in one case, there was Ramchandra Kaviraja. And he was being taken in procession to get married, he was stopped in…38.55 Yachigram… he was taken by palanquin. …. Rest under a tree in Yachigram, and they didn’t know that this tree was in the ashram of Srinivasa Acharya. So, Srinivasa Acharya, at that time he was being visited by Narottama dasa. So, the two were discussing, look at this nice boy, he is going to get married, he should be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service. So, why is he actually going on a grand procession, grand everything, but actually he should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. So, the two were talking, and so, they were both sitting under the same tree, and they both could hear everything. And whatever they were saying, he was thinking about the whole journey. They were taking him to get married. Da… da… da

I think that he was a normal guy, normal marriage, but on the marriage day they were treated like a prince. They were given a crown, horses, in this case they were taken on a palanquin, somehow it is like a grand day for you, and …40.30… follow that tradition. Wife wears a new sari, the husband wears a turban. He was thinking the whole way, what this two sadhus said? So, Srinivasa Acharya was a grihastha, Narottama Das Thakura was a brahmachari. I don’t think that he got married. But he was thinking the whole way, I should take it as Kṛṣṇa’s service, no one every told me this before, why didn’t I engage in Kṛṣṇa’s service. So, then he went and he got married. But I want to go and talk to those sadhus, I want to find out what do they mean. So, he went back to the ashram and they preached to him, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, he decided, I will become a devotee. Now he was wearing white, he was married, but he never, he never spent time with his wife, he went back, I think he had… Srinivasa, but he was the… he was the associate of Narottama. Ram Chandra sanga mange Narottama das. There is one song that he wants association of Ram Chandra. That same Ram Chandra Kaviraja. So, after some time he got initiated and then his guru said, Well, you have married and he you haven’t spent any time with you wife. So, you go home to your wife and come back. So, he was not available for a day.

The wife said, You see, you tell something spiritual, something real. I can enjoy with one day, but I want to know what you got, what you got from your guru, please tell me about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, his wife was so advanced that … he told her all about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She decided, I want to also render pure devotional service.

Haribol…

And in the end she bowed down, and the sindur from her head touched his foot. So, he went back to the ashram. Srinivasa Acharya saw that the sindur on your foot, what you have come here? You had some relation with your wife, and you didn’t take a bath, he was chastising. But then later he realized that that’s his mistake, that what he speculated didn’t happen, and he didn’t really know what actually happened so that he begged apology from his disciple. I made a mistake, I am sorry. So, like this there is many different pastimes that happened.

And so Ram Chandra Kaviraja’s wife was also a pure devotee, after that they lived together maybe, but the first meeting after marriage she wanted to know about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was her desire.

I cant see what time is.

So, then… so, even Srinivasa Acharya, he had no specific desire to marry, but he was offered to be… he was requested to be the rajguru of the king of Bana- Vsnupur. So, he was requested. But to be a rajguru he would have to a grihastha, because he would have to advice the king in his… all aspects of his life, including his married life. And as she was a grihastha, how could he advice the king? When grihasthas would approach Prabhupada, he said, now I am a sanyasi, although he was a grihastha, but now he was not a sanyasi, better you talk to some senior grihastha-Vaisanva about a family. So, he didn’t know what to do, Srinivasa Acharya didn’t know what to do, so he went to Narahari Thakura who was the last kind of associate left, last disciple of Caitaya Mahaprabhu, his major associate.

We sing in the evening kirtan, kiba narahari aadi kari camara dulaya. So, this Narahari, he went to him and said, what should I do? I didn’t have any desire to get married. I asked you rajguru, rajguru I have to get married, what should I do? So, then Narahari said, leave rajguru, get married, in this way the whole kingdom will be under you, and you can guide the kingdom how to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

In those days whatever religion the king took, more or less everyone would take it. It is like a person is… he can take whatever religion he wants but nobody wants to take that religion because he took it. In the peak time, in Malaysia the king came, the king converted to Islam 600 years ago, …. to marry some Arabian princess, he fell in love with him. So, the whole country became Islamic except a few, so now all the Malays are following Islam. But it is all six hundred years ago, because one king changed the religion. So, that was the system then. So, that king became a Gaudia Vaishava. So, the whole kingdom of Bankura went to Vsnupur, they all became devotees. They all became Vaisnavas, at least that was originally…. So, Srinivasa Acharya, he got married, but he had two wives… at that time was allowed, they were sisters, they were very Kṛṣṇa conscious also. So, there were so many stories. So, Srinivasa Acharya, he had Radha Madan Mohan deities in Vsnupura, and then other… in each generation of king… there were thirteen generations, they had a new temple, and they served Radha Kṛṣṇa deities, but now there is nobody to worship those deities, the deity Srinivasa Acharya is still worship, but the other deities were put together by the last devotee, and they are worshipped there by one pujari.

One time, like three hundred years ago, before the British came, and just before the British came, there was one Bhaskar Pandit, he actually offended, he had a armny, and he was conquering his weak king. The Mughal empire was very weak at that time. So, he conquered different kingdoms, and he looted and and he became like a king. So, he was trying to conquer Vsnupur. So, he came, several times he said he was defeated, he had amassed ten thousand soldiers, and he came, and he specifically targetteed robbers and attacked Brahmanas and Vaisanvas, so, at that time the king of Vsnupur, he said, ok, no one will fight, we will chant the whole night, get blessing of Krsna, and then we will defend in the morning. But in the middle of the night… because this Bhaskar Pandita, he was a demon, so he attacked in the night. Ok, this this foolish people, they are chanting Hare Krsna, I will take them, they will not defend, they will lift their arm. The king heard bhou… bhou… like canons, blasting, blasting. He said, who is blasting the canons? he went out. All of Bhaskar Panditas army were killed. Everyone dead. You will still find ancient coins, and the canon is still there. He took canon and shot like a machine gun. He tried to find, who was the one who used the canon? It was all over. They asked … whilte the deity came out, he took the canon in his arm and the deity was firing on.

The deity? Old guy, crazy guy.. so, he went to the temple of the deity of Radha Madana Mohana, and they saw that the deity room was filled with gun powder.

Hare Krsna mahamantra…. (repeated by devotees)

So, if you want, you can still go to Vsnupur, you can still see the canons, you can see the deities of Radha Madana Mohana

There is more pastimes but no time…

So, either you …52.00… your mind to control your desires… the thoughts that come in your mind, or ignore the mind and reject its thoughts. Somehow don’t succumb to them. This is the advice given by Srila Prabhupada.

Hare Krsna. Srila Prabhupada ki…. Jaya…

Any questions?

Wait for the microphone.

Q: what is the most important duty for a devotee towards his spiritual master?

Gurumaharaja: What is the most important duty of a devotee to his spiritual master?

Well, it says, there is two types of seva that we perform, like Vapu seva and the Vani seva. So, Vapu seva when the guru is present, like cooking for him, washing his clothes, doing some personal seva, that is and opportunity for him. Otherwise the Vani seva is to carry out his order. Say orders that you do book distribution or you do deity worship or if there is any special instruction. Just see that the service is dedicated to the temple president, he kind of gives out the service on behalf of the guru. If one is able to do that service or he likes that service, I think you can talk to the temple president, you can talk to the guru, but the guru should talk to the president and discuss, my disciple is not happy doing this service, what to do, and see how they can work it out.

In Iskcon… otherwise you know if everybody had a different orders from the guru, it creates all confusions. So, usually they work through the temple president. Only when it is like the life and death of the disciple they can… and the President, they can tell the disciple to do something. Otherwise in the normal circumstances they should work through the guru or the temple President.

So, we give this two types of seva, the Vapu seva and the Vani seva. When the guru is no longer present, he went back to godhead, or he is very far. I know everyone is close because of internet, and you can communicate very easy, otherwise say that he has gone back to godhead, then his Vani, his instruction, we actually take that as our order, so we try to carry that out.

So, we are Prabhupada disciples, our guru is gone back. So, he has given his books, and the books are actually the instruction for everybody. Not only us, but other followers. So, he tried to carry out the instruction that Prabhupada left in his books, that he gave personally. I had a great opportunity that he gave me a lot of personal instructions. Some disciples, they didn’t give so many personal instructions. But nonetheless the general instructions are there. Like me he told, you love Mayapur, travel, what you call restore the holy places, so many instructions. Improve the congregation.

One time he told me, expand the propaganda unlimitedly. So, I never fulfilled that one yet. (laughter) Got a long way to go. He gave me such instructions that is unfulfillable but anyway, we try. So, anyway, we can hear from others, but we have here Radhanath Swami and we have Srivas Prabhu,

What is the primary duty of the disciples?

Devotee: here is the …, to understand the instruction and carry them out to the best of one’s ability.

What is there to add to all that? well, you know to execute with love and devotion, out of love serve your spiritual master.

Guru Maharja: Hari bol

Okay, are you satisfied. I can’t see who gave the last question.

Whats your name, I can’t see.

Any other question?

You didn’t bring any oil of Narasimhadeva?

Ok, internet question.

Q Brahmachari wants to take grihastha,

You see, the idea of this clothe is we are fighting to maintain our celibate life. So, it is like the fire of the rising sun. So, if one is given out to fight, if he thinks, better I take take grihastha life, that’s all right, but then you should not wear this saffron, you should approach the guru, get blessing and change to white. And as a brahmachari, wearing saffron, he shouldn’t be searching for a wife. Not ideal situation.

It is said that Ravanas biggest aparadh… he was a raksasha. So, keep woman, that is a part of his dharma. What you call dharma… adharma… but his biggest offence was when he is dressed as a sanyasi to do it.

So, as a sanyasi or a brahmachari we don’t want to do double standard. So, if someone is a brahmachari and they want to take grihastha that is alright, that is a decision everyone should make. Then you should turn in your saffron cloth, and wear what?

The problem in they sanyasa minister…

Devotee: I think that he should sell his brahmachari clothe so that he can get some money for his grihastha… (laughter)

Guru Maharaja: Very practical. Which brahmachari wants to dye his clothe?

So, is he satisfied. That is what you wanted to know?

Ok. Thank you very much.

I got some Narasimha oil. You can come and get.

Within ten you should break your fast.