20000710 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.13.23–24

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on September 7^th, 2000 in Moscow, Russia. The class begins with a reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.13.23–24.

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.13.23

namo mahadbhyo ‘stu namaḥ śiśubhyo
namo yuvabhyo nama āvaṭubhyaḥ
ye brāhmaṇā gām avadhūta-liṅgāś
caranti tebhyaḥ śivam astu rājñām

Translation: I offer my respectful obeisances unto the great personalities, whether they walk on the earth’s surface as children, young boys, avadhūtas or great brāhmaṇas. Even if they are hidden under different guises, I offer my respects to all of them. By their mercy, may there be good fortune in the royal dynasties that are always offending them.

Jayapatākā Swami: Anybody here doesn’t know Russian? But I asked in English? You know Russian? Everybody here knows Russian. Just read the purport.

Purport: King Rahūgaṇa was very repentant because he had forced Jaḍa Bharata to carry his palanquin. He therefore began offering prayers to all kinds of brāhmaṇas and self-realized persons, even though they might be playing like children or hiding in some guises. The four Kumāras walked everywhere in the guise of five-year-old boys, and similarly there are many brāhmaṇas, knowers of Brahman, who traverse the globe either as young men, children or avadhūtas. Being puffed up due to their position, the royal dynasties generally offend these great personalities. Therefore King Rahūgaṇa began to offer his respectful obeisances unto them so that the offensive royal dynasties might not glide down into a hellish condition. If one offends a great personality, the Supreme Personality of Godhead does not excuse one, although the great personalities themselves might not take offense. Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was offended by Durvāsā, who even approached Lord Viṣṇu for pardon. Lord Viṣṇu would not grant him pardon; therefore he had to fall down at the lotus feet of Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, even though Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a kṣatriya-gṛhastha. One should be very careful not to offend the lotus feet of Vaiṣṇavas and brāhmaṇas.

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.13.24

śrī-śuka uvāca

ity evam uttarā-mātaḥ sa vai brahmarṣi-sutaḥ sindhu-pataya ātma-satattvaṁ vigaṇayataḥ parānubhāvaḥ parama-kāruṇikatayopadiśya rahūgaṇena sakaruṇam abhivandita-caraṇa āpūrṇārṇava iva nibhṛta-karaṇormy-āśayo dharaṇim imāṁ vicacāra.

Translation: Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: My dear King, O son of mother Uttarā, there were some waves of dissatisfaction in the mind of Jaḍa Bharata due to his being insulted by King Rahūgaṇa, who made him carry his palanquin, but Jaḍa Bharata neglected this, and his heart again became calm and quiet like an ocean. Although King Rahūgaṇa had insulted him, he was a great paramahaṁsa. Being a Vaiṣṇava, he was naturally very kindhearted, and he therefore told the king about the constitutional position of the soul. He then forgot the insult because King Rahūgaṇa pitifully begged pardon at his lotus feet. After this, he began to wander all over the earth, just as before.

Purport: In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.25.21), Kapiladeva describes the symptoms of great personalities: titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. A saintly devotee is certainly very tolerant. He is the friend of all living entities, and he does not create enemies within the world. A pure devotee has all the qualities of a sādhu. Jaḍa Bharata is an example of this. Due to the material body, his senses were certainly agītāted when he was insulted by King Rahūgaṇa, but later, due to the king’s humble submission, Jaḍa Bharata excused him. It is the duty of everyone desiring to return to Godhead to become submissive like King Rahūgaṇa and beg pardon of Vaiṣṇavas one may have offended. Vaiṣṇavas are generally very kindhearted; therefore if one immediately submits himself at the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava, one is immediately cleared of offensive reactions. If one does not do so, the reactions will remain, and the results will not be very palatable.

* * *

Oṁ tat sat

Jayapatākā Swami: So in verse 23 Rahūgaṇa offering his obeisances and begging for forgiveness. To all the great personalities, Kṛṣṇa conscious personalities, who are wondering about the surface of earth. They may be in disguise, like the four Kumāras are disguised as a [inaudible word]. Jaḍa Bharata was disguised as kind of dumb. Sometimes Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, He was disguised as a king.

Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, he disguised himself as a great lord, a landlord, feudal landlord, like a baron type or something. They had those in Russia before and they had the USSR, what they call it? (Pamesika). Because the king had given some land to the father of Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, and then he became like this a landlord. But they used the taxes they got from the land for the worship of their Deities, and Food for Life program, establish preaching, and other such programs like festivals. So then that way, Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, he also inherited this position. The people knew he was a great devotee that they try to take advantage of him. So he would disguise himself just as some materialistic royalty type person. Not exactly royalty, but noble. He go around in a palanquin, like this king Rahūgaṇa. When he reached Navadvīpa, then Lord Caitanya suddenly started to call his name. “Puṇḍarīka! Puṇḍarīka! Puṇḍarīka!” This is also name of Kṛṣṇa. So the devotees thought He in some ecstasy, so He is calling the name of Kṛṣṇa. But Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, he was so dear to Lord Caitanya that even Lord Caitanya felt separation from him.

Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi comes from a part of Bengal known as Caṭṭagrāma. Now that’s in Bangladesh. By the time of Lord Caitanya, there was no difference between Bangladesh and East and West Bengal, they were all one country. Anyway, you know about some country being together that separated. So that’s the far southeast corner of Gaura-maṇḍala-bhūmi, the birthplace of Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi. You know, first as Navadvīpa dhāma is the center, like in the center of a lotus and all the petals going around the lotus is like Gaura-maṇḍala-bhūmi. So the Gaura-maṇḍala-bhūmi is extending some hundreds of kilometers out. Southeast is Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi’s birthplace. Northeast is Śrīhaṭṭa is the birthplace of Śacīmātā and Jagannātha Miśra. Northwest is Kānāi-Nāṭaśālā and southwest is Remuṇā. In Remuṇā there is overlap. That is the border of Śrī Kṣetra and border of Gaura-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Who knows what Śrī Kṣetra refers to?

Devotee: Jagannātha Purī dhāma kī jaya!

Jayapatākā Swami: Jagannātha Purī is the center of Śrī Kṣetra, then Śrī Kṣetra goes out to North up to Remuṇā. So Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi reached Navadvīpa then Mukunda Datta, who was also from that place where Puṇḍarīka came from, he told Gadādhara Prabhu would you like to meet a pure devotee? “Oh Sure. I always like to meet pure devotees. Even a moment’s association with the Vaiṣṇava can purify one.”

‘sādhu-saṅga’, ‘sādhu-saṅga’—sarva-śāstre kaya
lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya
(Cc. Madhya 22.54)

So I am blessed to be here to get your association all you wonderful devotees. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please forgive me, if I made any offense. Because the devotees feel offended then very detrimental to one’s spiritual progress. Actually, sometimes it’s good to just forgive everybody, pray to Kṛṣṇa, “If anybody made any offense to me, please forgive them” and to beg forgiveness from everybody else and clear the slate.

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca
kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

So then Mukunda Datta brought Gadādhara Prabhu to see Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi. Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi was also known as Premanidhi, or the ocean of love of Kṛṣṇa. But, when Gadādhara Prabhu came in to see him, he saw this very opulent residence, expensive things hanging from the ceiling and walls, tapestries on the wall. Tapestries like that, embroidered cloth in silk and gold. Some very rich cushions for sitting on very soft silk pillows, cushions, thick brass lamps with may be gold plated, there were servants, who were putting oil in the hair of Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi. Some other servants were fanning him. So for Gadādhara Prabhu, he was like a simple brahmacārī. Maybe I came to the wrong place, looks like being a materially attached person, so many opulent things, so many possessions. Some people think that if you have more possessions, you are more materialistic. That usually not too far off. But in spiritual life that doesn’t necessarily prove true. It’s not what you have, but how you use it. If you use what you have in Kṛṣṇa’s service then that is transcendental. If you use even you have a little, if you use what you have for sense gratification it’s material.

So Mukunda Datta was talking with Puṇḍarīka Premanidhi and in their own local dialect. In Bengal there is different dialects, village dialects that they speak. Then Mukunda Datta could sense, you know, the kind of tenseness of Gadādhara could sense it, maybe he wasn’t accepting Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, and who he was.

So then he started to sing again a kīrtana and some bhajanas. Mukunda Datta was one of the best kīrtana singers in Lord Caitanya’s party. So he knew varieties of kīrtanas. One kind of kīrtana is called padāvalī, where you describe the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa in song. So he began to describe Kṛṣṇa’s childhood pastimes. Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana as a baby and was being served by Mother Yaśodā and elderly gopīs. How the witch Pūtanā came disguised as a beautiful loving mother, as a woman. But she had put poison on her breasts to poison Kṛṣṇa and kill Him, that was her purpose. But she came and she acted like a very loving mother. “Oh, what a beautiful child you have Yaśodā! My motherly affection is so much inspired by your beautiful baby. The milk is just pouring from my breast, I want to feed your baby with my breast milk.” So somehow everyone thought, “Oh, this is such a nice lady. She wants to feed my baby, why not?” And mother and this Pūtanā, she was holding baby Kṛṣṇa, “Oh, my dear child, You are so beautiful. I love You so much.” So she was a good actor. She acted like a loving mother. But she had ulterior motive to kill Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa… Mukunda Datta, he is explaining in the song how Kṛṣṇa accepted her offering of motherly affection. And Kṛṣṇa promises, He reciprocates with everyone in the way that people approach Him. So because she came here like a mother, He reciprocated and made her a mother in the spiritual world. But because she wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa killed her. He reciprocated: ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11] and… But this pastime as Mukunda was explaining how merciful Kṛṣṇa is, that Kṛṣṇa took and accepted her like a mother. And Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, he just became mad in separation of Kṛṣṇa. And Mukunda Datta kept on singing yaśodānandana vraja-jana-rañjana and Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi is getting more and more feeling more separation. He is ripping his cloth, he is pulling his hair, “Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa! You are so merciful Kṛṣṇa! I am so fallen Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa! Please have mercy on me.” And he is like, he is ripping his cloth, he is knocking the lamps, the servants are running, trying to protect everything. He is crying on the pillows, “Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa!” The pillows are getting ripped, everything in the whole room is like a disaster. And then Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi just there crying, “Kṛṣṇa! Kṛṣṇa! Oh! Kṛṣṇa I am so fallen. You are so merciful.”

Gadādhara Prabhu, he was like amazed. Uff! I thought he was an attached. I see, he is so much attached to Kṛṣṇa. He just destroyed all his furnishings. I never saw anybody with so much love for Kṛṣṇa, except Lord Caitanya. I committed a great offense to him. I thought he was a materialist, now my spiritual life is going to be finished. Because of my offensive mentality. I need to get forgiven for my offenses. Later he told Mukunda Datta that I committed this offense. I want to get forgiven for the offense. I am thinking I should take initiation from Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi and accept him as my guru. Because the guru is always forgiving the disciple. So if I am his disciple then he will forgive me. And they asked Lord Caitanya, what He thought on this proposal. And Lord Caitanya said, “Ochin harasho! Good idea.” And He personally arranged the ceremony. And Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi initiated Gadādhara Prabhu. Of course, we know Gadādhara in his previous līlā with Kṛṣṇa... What was his position? Rādhārāṇī. And who was Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi? Vṛsabhānu Mahārāja, father of Rādhārāṇī. So from father to spiritual father.

So like this, sometimes the devotees are in disguise, and sometimes materialist are in disguise too. Sometimes materialist is disguised himself as devotees. Actually they are not. Lord Caitanya, He was crossing the river, He crossed the Jalāṅgī river. And He was walking with Lord Nityānanda toward the house of Advaita Ācārya. He must have been in the Godrumadvīpa or maybe Madhyadvīpa. One sādhu, one like a brāhmaṇa with a big beard, and tilaka he came and invited, “Please come and see my Deities.” It’s a beautiful Kṛṣṇa Deity. He said, “Please, it’s already morning time. Why don’t You just stop and have a breakfast? I have some bālya-bhoga, breakfast prasāda from the Deities. Fruits and roots.” So then They put down some seat and some banana-leaf plate and was serving a fruit to Nitāi and Gaura. So They offered Their respects and were taking prasāda. Then that brāhmaṇa, he said, “So why don’t You stay for lunch? For you, I will make a special offering. I will get nice big fish.” Nitāi Gaura, They stopped eating “Fish! You eat fish?” “Oh, it is a fruit of the water. Very good. Good for health.” Lord Caitanya spit-out, “You are an imitation Vaiṣṇava. You are not a real brāhmaṇa. You cannot offer meat, fish, and egg to Kṛṣṇa. Oh! We are contaminated eating your food!” They jumped up and ran to the Ganges, “Gaṅgā Mayī!” And They jumped in with all their clothes on to get purified from having taken food from this imitation Vaiṣṇava.

So you can see the difference of… So we have to actually learn to understand people. Somebody may be very follower… They are trying to advance Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is different. Lord Caitanya will deliver such people. But this person was presenting himself like a brāhmaṇa, second initiated, Deities and then he is offering fish to the Deities, how offensive, can he be? Anybody knows Kṛṣṇa doesn’t accept tamasika things like fish and meat as an offering. So sometimes His pure devotees, they are disguise. And we had to learn to tell who is the pure devotee, by what they do, what they speak. Tell a sādhu by hearing him more than by seeing him. Also, somebody is acting free of envy or if they are acting with envy, that is another symptom. Vaiṣṇava is nirmatsarāṇām—He is free of envy. Doesn’t want to do harm to anybody else. So offending Vaiṣṇavas is very dangerous. How, two things are here, the first verse is like showing how King Rahūgaṇa was forgiven by Jaḍa Bharata. Rather second verse. The first verse, King Rahūgaṇa is begging forgiveness. And the second verse is getting forgiven. Forgiveness, there is a śloka, I just heard it recently, but I forget now the words; It says, our forgiveness is Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is very much part of dharma. Forgiveness is part of dharma. So many times, someone, we maybe feel agītāted or offended, we need to also be forgiving, even although Jaḍa Bharata is a paramahaṁsa. It said that there was a wave of resentment, some way of feeling offended from the dealings of king Rahūgaṇa. That was due to his body. This is a bodily or mental, subtle and gross bodily reaction to feel offended. But he tolerated that. And when King Rahūgaṇa begged forgiveness, then he just took it out of his mind altogether. Have any of you ever felt offended by anyone else? Sentiment ever come in your mind? A few people. [laughter] You think you ever did anything that might have been felt to be offensive with somebody else? So these things happen. So you need to be experts to beg for forgiveness and also to give forgiveness. Both things are needed. I know sometimes some devotee came and said, “I asked forgiveness.” And they said, “No, I will never forgive you.” It is very difficult situation. But never to forgive somebody is also not very pleasing to Kṛṣṇa. It’s like what Jesus says, “Treat others as you would like them to treat you.” What would our position be if Kṛṣṇa never forgave us? [break]

…nothing I can do. You are going to have to rot in hell and burn for your offenses.” “No, no. Please forgive me. I cannot forgive you. You didn’t offend me. You offended My devotee. Ask him. He must forgive you. Otherwise, there is no hope for you.” The other Vaiṣṇavas never saw Lord Caitanya so harsh. They went to Śrīvāsa Prabhu and told him what happened. “Śrīvāsa Prabhu, You have to forgive this Cāpāla Gopāla for his offenses to you.” “How can I? I cannot be offended? I am not a Vaiṣṇava. I am not a devotee. I am the most fallen person. I am lower than a worm in stool. Who could offend me? I am so rotten that you can’t do anything that would be offensive to me.”

All the devotees were bewildered. What to do now? He is playing the humble role. Now he doesn’t want to forgive anybody. “Listen, Śrīvāsa, You may think you are not a devotee. You may think that nobody can offend you, because you are so fallen, but Lord Caitanya things that you are devotee. And He thinks that Cāpāla Gopāla offended you. And if you don’t forgive Cāpāla Gopāla, he will rotten in hell for a very long time. Do you want him to suffer because of you? You want him to go to hell because of you? Is this what you want Śrīvāsa Prabhu?”

“No! No! No! [Нет нет нет] I don’t want anyone to suffer because of me. I don’t want anyone to suffer because of me. No one should suffer because of me.”

“Then you have to forgive him, whether you like it or not. Otherwise, you may be the cause of his suffering.”

“Okay! Okay! I will go, I will go! I will forgive him.” So you have to use reverse phycology with Śrīvāsa Prabhu. He was too humble. So then Śrīvāsa went to the place with the devotees to where Cāpāla Gopāla was. Due to his leprosy, already some of his fingers had fallen off his nose, everything was very much affected. Leprosy is when the circular air doesn’t reach the parts of the body. And the body just starts to rot. Capala Gopāla, when he saw Śrīvāsa, he fell at his feet, “Please forgive me for my offenses. I have offended you. You are pure devotee. Please forgive me.” So then Śrīvāsa said, “Lord Kṛṣṇa, please forgive him if there is any offense that You consider he has done to me.” All the devotees were in bliss. Haribol! Haribol! Lord Caitanya suddenly appeared and He picked up Cāpāla Gopāla and He embraced him. And when he embraced him, immediately he was cured from his leprosy. And he started to cry in love of Kṛṣṇa, crying in ecstasy. Gaurāṅga! Gaurāṅga! Gaurāṅga! Gaurāṅga! Śrīvāsa Prabhu kī jaya! Cāpāla Gopāla Uddhāra-līlā kī jaya! Nitāi Gaura Premānande! Hari Haribol! So we should be very careful about offenses. And expert in begging forgiveness and avoiding offenses. And at the right time, we need also be forgiving. When somebody is really repentant. There is no use in holding a grudge. Then that can also be a detriment to our spiritual progress. So these are very important verses for devotees like in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; good lessons to be learned. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Any question?

Question: You say that when Pūtanā wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa reciprocated. And, and also you mentioned that sometimes materialists disguise themselves as devotees. What does Kṛṣṇa do to such. What does Kṛṣṇa do? Such people who disguise themselves as devotees?

Answer: We heard like in Vṛndāvana, there is a lot of dogs, monkeys and pigs. Sometimes some of the people there, who are acting like devotees, but they are also breaking regular principles. They can take birth as one of these animals. Somehow, they are connected with Kṛṣṇa, so they are getting some blessings also. Once they get purified and they can also achieve Kṛṣṇa. Depends exactly, there may be different… Some people may be something devotee and something cheater. So it depends on each individual. Sometimes some devotees went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa and some bābājī in Rādhā-kuṇḍa gave blessing, “May you be born India in your next life and be able to serve Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.” They went back and told Prabhupāda that. Prabhupāda said, “You should have give them a blessing, “May you be blessed to be born in the West, where you can participate in spreading the saṅkīrtana movement of Lord Caitanya.” That we are having a great opportunity now to spread Lord Caitanya’s saṅkīrtana movement. We should give up our attachment to thinking, we can be happy with material life and understand material life means some happiness and suffering both, It’s not that only (happiness). But the real happiness we can get by developing our love for Kṛṣṇa. And we help Lord Caitanya to spread the saṅkīrtana movement, that is the best possibility to get His blessings. How many of you would like to help Lord Caitanya’s spreading the saṅkīrtana movement? Gaurāṅga! Nityānanda! Śacīsuta! Dayāla Nitāi!

Any other questions?

Question: What mentality we have to develop in order to not to take any offense, not to accept any offense.

Answer: Follow in the footsteps of Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. Being more humble than a blade of grass on the street. More tolerant than a tree. Offer all respect to others, don’t expect any respect from anyone. Sounds familiar? [laughter] Where is that from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Devotees: Śikṣāṣṭakam!

Jayapatākā Swami: Oh Śikṣāṣṭakam! [laughter] Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. That is the best formula. In frist canto Bhāgavatam, Bhūmi and Dharma also showed good example, when they were beaten by Kali. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he didn’t tolerate the offense. We shouldn’t tolerate, if somebody is offending another Vaiṣṇava, we should object. Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Question: Now in Moscow the influence of Gauḍīya Maṭha is increasing daily. They have some programs, etc. So what should be our attitude, so that we would not offend them and we would not crossover the line which was given to us, outlined to us by Śrīla Prabhupāda. What should be our attitude?

Answer: Well, we should increase our loyalty to Prabhupāda. We are in Prabhupāda’s team. Prabhupāda’s family. You should understand what Prabhupāda’s teachings are, desires. his point of view. Gauḍīya Maṭha believes Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa, some there are lot of common. But, there are different Gauḍīya Maṭha, some are more friendly with and some are more aggressive. I am the convener of the Sārasvata Gauḍīya of Vaiṣṇava Association. [Convener means I call the meeting.] Sārasvata Gauḍīya of Vaiṣṇava Association, all the followers coming from Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. So some of the other members complain that some Gauḍīya Maṭhas are just reinitiating devotees. They don’t respect initiations. Not only ISKCON, even other Gauḍīya Maṭhas also are complaining. So, we do a joint Vyāsa-pūjā celebration for Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in Māyāpur, maybe in the future there can be, if there is a better understanding, there can be some type of joint programs sometimes. But just casually going and listening to different Gauḍīya Maṭha preachers, that’s more dangerous. Śrīla Prabhupāda said, we should listen to our ISKCON preachers. Everyone understands Prabhupāda’s teachings first, we should get thoroughly realized in what Prabhupāda wants. Prabhupāda had a vision what Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura really wanted. Prabhupāda invited all the Gauḍīya Maṭhas to unite together. But the Gauḍīya Maṭhas refused. So Śrīla Prabhupāda… there many differences and we follow Prabhupāda and have faith on his vision, are more in tune with the previous ācāryas. And Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja, who lectured last night, he always says that good fences, good walls, and good neighbors. So either, top leaders need to discuss, there is different ways of eventually having a unity. But in the meantime, we need to know where our borders are and stay within them. Of course Gauḍīya Maṭhas some of the aggressive ones they preach, if you don’t want to listen to our spiritual master that its offensive. Which one of the offence is that in Nectar of Devotion. Since Prabhupāda instructed us to listen to ISKCON preachers, will depend on Prabhupāda’s protection. If we don’t go and listen to other people. And we are looking for some way of future, more unity, but it depends on each individual group. There are many hurdles to crossover before we can consider that. Prabhupāda, He was very cautious and giving out initiations, he required people have to practice for a certain period of time. Some Gauḍīya Maṭhas are also cautious, but usually not so much. And in one Gauḍīya Maṭha, the preacher was having a program in Mexico, and they are having initiation. So they invited whoever wants initiations come. So there was a journalist there from the local newspaper. “Do you want initiation too?” “What is initiation?” “Get a blessing from a guru.” “What do I have to do?” He put a white mark on your forehead, and you sit down in the fire-yajña. He wasn’t a vegetarian. What is the meaning of such an initiation? Doesn’t follow śāstra, Lord Caitanya said, in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, there should be some testing period. One Gauḍīya Maṭha guru, he reinitiated one ISKCON disciple from a bona fide guru. And then the local regional secretary heard about it, and he quickly came to that ceremony. “What are you doing? How can you initiate him? He is already initiated by a bona fide guru. This is offensive.” “Oh! I am sorry, I didn’t know. They didn’t tell me. Okay, I know you are initiation. You are not initiated.” We have the devotee, we took him out. Sometimes you have to be with bold. There is no offence to question. “How can you do this?” It is actually, we don’t go, to avoid offense. It’s not that because it’s offensive, but to avoid offensive. Unless there is some understanding and there are some very senior devotees there to coordinate matters, (otherwise) there is a possibility of committing some offense. They are Vaiṣṇavas, serving Kṛṣṇa. But if they do something wrong, we can question it. Because questioning is not offensive. It is offensive, if you fill in the answer. It is offensive, if you call somebody by a name, you are a demon, you are this, that, that is offensive. Why did you do like this? Sometimes people, they say, “Oh, I am offended.” That doesn’t mean it’s offensive.

I was with Śrīla Prabhupāda, when he was questioning brother of the brother of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. He said, “Isn’t it offensive, isn’t it sinful, if somebody could develop, cannot develop the birthplace of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. And he doesn’t allow somebody who can develop it do anything develop it. Prabhupāda was saying it in a very strong. Because he wanted to do something to develop Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s birthplace. But he wasn’t given any scope, and they weren’t doing anything to develop it either. If you go to see his birthplace you will cry. Pretty much neglected place. So later Prabhupāda, he told us that, “Because I asked us a question. Therefore, it’s not offensive. Question is not offensive.” Was is a spiritual question, [inaudible] sinful? So for new devotees, it’s very best, we first get very much well established in your relationship with Prabhupāda. And then after that, we can see how we can further develop things.

Okay, I think we’re really over time now. I am here with you today until I have got a flight at four (inaudible). They told me maybe there will be another class. I don’t know the exact schedule. But this morning I will be also available to talk with devotees. Does anybody want oil from Narasiṁhadeva? Haribol!

I need a cotton... [End of recording]

[Transcribed by JPS Archives Team]