19840528 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.8.6-7

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on May 28, 1984 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 10th Canto, Chapter 8, Verse 6.

tvaṁ hi brahma-vidāṁ śreṣṭhaḥ
saṁskārān kartum arhasi
bālayor anayor nṝṇāṁ
janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ
(ŚB 10.8.6)

Translation (by His Divine Grace Śrīla Abhayacarana Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda): My lord, you are the best of the brāhmaṇas, especially because you are fully aware of the jyotiḥ-śāstra, the astrological science. Therefore, you are naturally the spiritual master of every human being. This being so, since you have kindly come to my house, kindly execute the reformatory activities for my two sons.

*translation with repetition*

Purport (by Śrīla Prabhupāda): The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, says in Bhagavad-gītā (4.13), cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: the four varṇas — brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra — must be present in society. The brāhmaṇas are required for the guidance of the whole society. If there is no such institution as varṇāśrama-dharma and if human society has no such guide as the brāhmaṇa, human society will be hellish. In Kali-yuga, especially at the present moment, there is no such thing as a real brāhmaṇa, and therefore society is in a chaotic condition. Formerly there were qualified brāhmaṇas, but at present, although there are certainly persons who think themselves brāhmaṇas, they actually have no ability to guide society. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is therefore very much eager to reintroduce the varṇāśrama system into human society so that those who are bewildered or less intelligent will be able to take guidance from qualified brāhmaṇas.

Brāhmaṇa means Vaiṣṇava. After one becomes a brāhmaṇa, the next stage of development in human society is to become a Vaiṣṇava. People in general must be guided to the destination or goal of life, and therefore they must understand Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The whole system of Vedic knowledge is based on this principle, but people have lost the clue (na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum), and they are simply pursuing sense gratification, with the risk of gliding down to a lower grade of life (mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani). It doesn’t matter whether one is born a brāhmaṇa or not. No one is born a brāhmaṇa; everyone is born a śūdra. But by the guidance of a brāhmaṇa and by saṁskāra, one can become dvija, twice-born, and then gradually become a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇism is not a system meant to create a monopoly for a particular class of men. Everyone should be educated so as to become a brāhmaṇa. At least there must be an opportunity to allow everyone to attain the destination of life. Regardless of whether one is born in a brāhmaṇa family, a kṣatriya family or a śūdra family, one may be guided by a proper brāhmaṇa and be promoted to the highest platform of being a Vaiṣṇava. Thus the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement affords an opportunity to develop the right destiny for human society. Nanda Mahārāja took advantage of the opportunity of Garga Muni’s presence by requesting him to perform the necessary reformatory activities for his sons to guide Them toward the destination of life.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam Canto 10, Chapter 8, Text 6 [7], the Chapter entitled, “Lord Kṛṣṇa Shows the Universal Form”.

Jayapatākā Swami: So today, in society, there is an emergency situation. The bottom line for a civilization to be considered civilized is that, they should at least follow varṇāśrama system. And of course, the perfection of civilization is when they are actually God conscious completely. But for both of these purposes brāhmaṇas are essential. Brāhmaṇa is both someone who practices very pure sāttvika living standards, and who is always engaged in instructing others. In this way, the brāhmaṇas, they’re moving independent from the other material activities of the society, simply for the welfare of the people at large.

Actually, yesterday on the radio show somebody asked a question, something about, “You're dependent upon society, if it wasn’t for the hard-working people, where would you be?” Something like that. I never got a chance to answer that. The MC commentator ended the show well at that time.

Actually, the brāhmaṇas they have the right to not work. They have the right to beg or to get their income from the people directly. Because they are filling a service to the society in general. They are providing spiritual education, they are providing opportunity for people to become God conscious. Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda never liked the idea of simply asking for something and giving nothing in return. Therefore, He always wanted us, he preferred, if when we ask for something, or if we can give something back, which would be beneficial to that person. In this way, people would not consider that they are not getting anything for what they are giving. Or at least the society in general would get back more than whatever they gave. Because they are giving something material, and they are getting back something which is priceless, which is beyond the value of calculation, something which is spiritual, which is eternal.

Prabhupāda, he started the program of book distribution. In India especially people have taken advantage by begging. They don’t give anything, they just take. It is not unusual to find a man and his wife wearing saffron in Bengal, chanting door to door, and begging for money. First of all, nobody should wear saffron unless they are in the renounced three orders of life. Three austere orders or whatever you call it. I guess everyone is austere, but brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa.

So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura he made a little jingle which describes this – “golay mālā, nakera tilaka, piche ache sundara bālā saba kali-chela - Little tilak on his nose and beads on his neck, tilak on his nose, he is walking along but behind him his wife goes… little… his girlfriend goes, it’s actually sundara bālā. These are followers of Kali-yuga.”

That Lord Caitanya, He never discouraged anyone from being a gṛhastha, from being a brāhmaṇa, from being whatever they were, presenting themselves as that. But He was definitely against someone presenting himself to be something that he was not. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura began this tradition that where he didn’t want to, he wanted to show something, he didn’t want to be misunderstood. Prabhupāda he put that into practice by encouraging us to give out transcendental literature, prasāda, to be visibly providing services for the people. He said that, “The Kṛṣṇa Conscious devotees should be known as the most upright honest people in society as providing a spiritual service for society.” That was his actual intention, that’s what he wanted. Because how can a preacher preach if the people don’t have respect or faith in him?

Gargamuni came, he was immediately accepted by Nanda Mahārāja. He was renowned, he was an expert in brahminical sciences, therefore whatever he said they would accept it as something very authoritative, and they would try to live by his instructions. This type of faith is necessary for a preaching to have a good effect. How can you preach to someone and have full effectiveness if the person, in every thought, every word is thinking, “Whether this person is a cheater or not, whether this person is trying to rip me off or not?” One has to establish a relationship of faith. Whether person is able to put confidence in the person who is preaching to him, that is ideal. That is actually where we want to go to. So Śrīla Prabhupāda said the solution is that, people should read our books. And of course, we should have a good standard of behavior.

Another point here of course, when a brāhmaṇa is often they would know the astrological science so when they came, people would ask naturally what is my future, what’s a… what’s the situation hold for me? Then, well by astrological calculations they could give them some advice. You’re this kind of person and this is your situation, and that would also help that person. Then naturally they would give advice and how to make their life more Kṛṣṇa conscious, more God conscious at the same time. But it was a good avenue to attract the people. People naturally were very interested. Everyone is interested to know about their future. So, immediately gave something to discuss. Once you are talking about a person, they start to open up and then they would also… Tell them how to apply this into their life.

Because the brāhmaṇa was actually well-wisher, because he didn’t have a high overhead by nature, brāhmaṇa was very simple, was very truthful, austere, religious, clean. So, the brāhmaṇa was… is not a big burden on society at all because he lives very simply. Even when Chanakya pandit was offered to be the prime minister of the entire empire of Northern India about… Chandra gupta was 2-3000 years ago. At that time, um, he refused to live in a palace. He was provided, as a Prime Minister he could have a big palace, he refused it, he said, “No, as a brāhmaṇa I don’t want to live in your palace, or any other palace, I want to live in a grass hut.” So outside of the palace compound he constructed a grass hut, and he lived there, and he wouldn’t take any salary. He said, “I don’t want to be a paid man, I’m working voluntarily, If I get any donation, I may accept it.” This is the nature of brahminical culture, not to be dependent.

As soon as you’re dependent on someone, just like the politicians, they are trying to satisfy the people. Even the kṣatriya wasn’t supposed to be dependent. He was supposed to… it’s not a popular thing, he is supposed to follow the advice of the scriptures and the brāhmaṇas. Naturally the people would be satisfied. Because society would be well-organized, the people would have enough food, shelter, clothing, and spiritual facility. So, when the brahminical culture broke down, and the brāhmaṇas started to consider themselves an elite cast, and they started to envy the others. Then, from there the kṣatriyas became more selfish and greedy without proper guidance from brahminical culture. In this way the whole Vedic culture basically fell apart. It didn’t completely fall apart, but it started to disintegrate to the extent that all of the… that no emperor could… was powerful enough to maintain the entire India as one empire.

There were many small kings and several, 2 or 3 emperors. And so, the Moguls or the Persians and Arabian hoards, they were able to run over Western India first, and they were able to conquer large parts of Northern India initially, although South India was able to keep them out for a long time. Finally, about 400-500… about 400 years ago they were able to make inroads to South India. Then the British came, but South India and Orissa… Orissa practically… except for parts of Northern Orissa, most of Orissa was never under Mohammedan rule, was never under British rule until later. Similarly… Sometimes people criticize, “Well, Mahārāja Pratāparudra, he was a Vaiṣṇava. This is uh… somehow this weakens a monarch or weakens a person.” But, uh, Pratāparudra was more effective in keeping out the Mohammedans from Orissa, the Mughal Badshahs were trying to attack him, that practically speaking he was never conquered. He may not have been an aggressor, he did not go out and conquer vast areas of new land at that period of time, but he didn’t give up any land. He was very effective. And similarly, Orissa was… and the other Vaiṣṇava king who built Tirupati temple who was in South India, Kṛṣṇa Deva Rāya. He was also during the time of Lord Caitanya. His was… There were travelers from Portugal,Italy, who have independently recorded visiting his kingdom and the descriptions they gave were incredible, fantastic. How opulent it was, all sub kings would give one third of their taxes to the emperor. That was the system. And they would give a fixed number of soldiers, and with military things every year. And the emperor therefore he had a bigger army and he was… his army was… if… the kings had their own army, but if they couldn’t handle any crisis the emperor could come and support. This was the system.

So his kingdom, Deva Rāya… Kṛṣṇadeva Rāya kingdom went the whole total South India, Andhra Pradesh, his capital was Hampi right down to the tip. Right up to Godavari, right up to Rāmānanda Rāya, and from Rāmānanda Rāya up was Pratāparudra. So, in the time of Lord Caitanya these Vaiṣṇava kings they were able to protect themselves very effectively. And they had… so that’s not a valid criticism. It’s when people become corrupt, when they become overly materialistic, or if they become impersonalistic, that’s when they become uh, they want to give everything up and they want to fade away to the Brahman, so that’s when they start to become less useful for fulfilling their duty.

So, the actual need of course is people to be assigned their responsibility. What is the whole varṇāśrama system is that according to a person’s work, he should act in a particular way? There is already people who are teachers, administrators, businessmen and laborers. The varṇāśrama system gives with each category certain inherent responsibilities.

For instance, a teacher is also supposed to have impeccable character. Recently in the newspaper it gave how one high school teacher, I forget where it was, how he was accused of having relationships with his students of both sexes. And uh, there was a whole… there was some special somewhere, child abuse, and many of the school teachers, they have abused their position in this way. This is the… this is the whole problem.

You have a schoolteacher, he is one of the natural leaders of society as the king, the parent, the school teacher, the politician. The parents, and the schoolteacher these are the natural leaders of society. Because the teachers they are going to train the children, they are going to create the future citizens of a country. So, teachers… teaching is one of the duties of a brāhmaṇa, so he is supposed to have an impeccable character. He is supposed to be almost like a spiritual master in one sense. He is a spiritual master at least he is their… their master in terms of teaching master and he should be spiritually and materially impeccable in his character. Similarly, a politician he also supposed to have certain rules, kṣatriya supposed to act in a certain way.

This is very scientifically made so that they know what is their duty to society is, and so that they act in such a way that they actually fulfill their duties. If someone is an administrator, he is supposed to be fearless, he is supposed to be courageous, he is supposed to be able to go out. Just like in… we… just like in Māyāpur we were attacked, here were the policemen, we brought them, we said “Kindly let the…” One devotee lived outside in the house. He is a gṛhastha, he lived down about a half a mile. when he saw that we were attacked, he went to get the police. He said, “Kindly I’ll take you my bicycle.”

“We won’t go by bicycle.”

They walked.

When they got near the temple the battle was still going on. They all had rifles, they said “Alright, we should go.” They said, “Wait let it cool down. We don’t want to risk our lives.” They’re not kṣatriya; they’re śūdras. Kṣatriyas, they don’t run away from a battle, they are not considering, they are not cowards.

So, this is the problem, we have policemen or we have politicians who take position, but they should have the quality of being ready to then sacrifice their life for the cause of the nation, for the cause of fulfilling their duty. If their only purpose is to fatten their pockets, then what is the use? So, this type of system that, if a person has a particular occupational duty, he should also have certain qualities, and he should act with certain responsibilities. Otherwise, even though he is doing that occupation he won’t be perfected, and the society will be disorderly, and that’s exactly what’s happening today.

Even we have these categories of people, because the teachers don’t have a high character, because the, the political leaders don’t have that type of courage in many cases, or that type of integrity. Even they’re allowed to take remuneration for what they do, but then they should also protect the citizens who are helpless without the administration taking the active role as a protector. Similarly, the businessmen, they have a duty to provide economic strength for the entire society. They are considered the stomach. If the vaiśya, the businessmen are able to create a very strong economic base then the society is very strong. But if they create the Chambers of Commerce and then think how to manipulate the market so the prices go up artificially and the people are therefore… they may become wealthy but in fact the people become artificially weakened, that’s not a proper balance. Bet it they’re to work under a certain system. But that can only happen if the administration and the brāhmaṇas are strong. So, in this way the checks and balances are there if everybody fulfills, and that depends on strong spiritual guides.

So actually, this Kṛṣṇa Conscious movement is create… is there especially to train up brāhmaṇas. We are having the shaved hair and the śikhās and then because this is the naturally insignia of brāhmaṇa. Yesterday after the program one Indian was there, he is a Banerjee, Banerjee, Bandopadhyay, one of the four aristocratic brahminical families of India, he said, “You are all the real brāhmaṇas. We are in name brāhmaṇa, we are not able to do much. But you are actually the brāhmaṇas.” and this you’ll hear in many places. Of course, there are some very bigoted kind of caste brāhmaṇas who don’t want to accept anyone who is not a born brāhmaṇa, but in general the modern brāhmaṇas of the day, they can see what Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is doing. You don’t have to put the words in their mouth. They will spontaneously say, “You are practicing brahminical culture.” Because a Vaiṣṇava is spontaneously, automatically a brāhmaṇa.

The next stage from brāhmaṇa is Vaiṣṇava. So what our temples are, are factories for producing and training brāhmaṇas. What is a brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa means that he is thinking – especially a Vaiṣṇava – if someone who is para dukha dukhi, he is considering how to help this mislead society, how to help the people who are suffering in illusion to regain their natural position as devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Even other people, they may remain in their position as businessmen or laborers, but the brāhmaṇas, they’re there to train them up how to lead their life. Just like Gargamuni, he is going to tell Nanda Mahārāja so many things.

Of course, Nanda Mahārāja is already trained up. But today people are completely in illusion. So that’s why we have a high standard which we have to maintain in our temples. We are brāhmaṇas. Prabhupāda said, “I’ve done half the work. The next half is varṇāśrama.” That means to train up the resident society to act in their particular occupational duties in devotional service, contributing service to Kṛṣṇa according to their capabilities. And of course we have to go on recruiting more people to be brāhmaṇas.

Sometimes we hear someone say, “I worked for the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement for seven years, what have I got?” That person is not a brāhmaṇa at all. A brāhmaṇa is not trying to get anything; he is trying to serve. That is why a brāhmaṇa can take a donation and he doesn’t have any karma. Because a brāhmaṇa won’t keep it for himself, immediately he gives it to Kṛṣṇa, and then uses it for uplifting others, uses it to build a temple for people’s spiritual use, or purchasing books, to purchase books, to give books to people who are interested in reading the books, for other type of work, for distributing prasāda, for building a Kṛṣṇa Conscious farm to protect the cows and to provide a shelter for people to come who are not able to live in the city, or not ideally suited for living in a city, but who can practice God consciousness in that type of a natural situation. So that is what we want.

We want the favor of Kṛṣṇa. We want people that are social workers. I was uh… The first time I went to Thailand with Rupanuga Prabhu and Balavanta, they went there. They wanted to start a program for ser… the… distributing prasāda to the Cambodian refugees. So we went there. We found that they were already...we are late. They thought… they had… they were months late. There were literally fifty volunteer organizations there of every country, name, shape OXFAM, REFAM whatever, SIDA, UNICEF, HEAVYTASK, CARE, just… a flood of them. They begged and they approached us, the people who are the welfare workers said, “Please have prasāda distribution for us. We can’t stand this place. We are completely bored. The food here stinks. Meanwhile if you open up a prasāda restaurant we will be very happy.” They all go there, they go there for 3-4 months, they get bored stiff after the first week, and they are just waiting to go back home. When they go back then they’re heroes. (laugh) They’ve served the camp. But when they are there, the people are miserable. And you can see here the devotees, when they are distributing prasāda, doing a ratha-yātrā, distributing books, when they are doing preaching, they are blissful. They are ecstatic because they are doing it, knowing it… and directly it is pleasing to Kṛṣṇa. And they have that, developed that brahminical culture where they actually have compassion to help others. Here they have a sentiment, when they actually get there, when they see the sick people and then they do it. But it’s, they’re just unhappy.

The whole night they just they want to have the parties. It is just like some kind of a… it’s a very strange combination. They have a touch of goodness in them but because of their not being trained up in brahminical culture it is, it is very unnatural for them to maintain that kind of attitude for more than a couple weeks. They have to mix it with a lot of sense gratification. (laughter) And there is no sense gratification on the Cambodian border. And therefore, they, they want to go back to Bangkok or something. It’s just… it’s an unusual situation. They want to go back to where they came from, pretty fast.

So this is what, what is actually needed. A person cannot be an effective preacher without developing this brahminical standard. Therefore, we need to follow the four regulative principles, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa every day, study the literatures, know what we’re giving the people, and be actively engaged in giving out the mercy of Lord Caitanya. That is the actual pure brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava activity. When somebody falls down from the brahminical standard, then they can think ,“What am I doing this for?” and if somebody is in the brahminical attitude, if they are actually understanding what is the purpose of life, and they want to help others to achieve that purpose of life, then they don’t have to look anywhere else for their satisfaction. That itself is the most fulfilling, especially when one is awakened to pure devotional service, and one is understanding this is the desire of Lord Caitanya, this is actually what He wants, then one can experience the highest ecstasies of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

Śrīla Prabhupāda explained we are not to imitate Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya, He sat around and talked about Kṛṣṇa-līlā with His intimate associates. He was enjoying those pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, relishing them, but He is Kṛṣṇa! That’s His position! But we are the servants of the servants of the servants of Kṛṣṇa. Our position is to serve the Lord. We are the servants of the servants of the servants of Mahāprabhu. Lord Caitanya wanted that the fallen people would be given the opportunity to taste that nectar of life to become God consciousness. So, all of the associates after Lord Caitanya left, they were all actively engaged in different kinds of activities, writing literatures or distributing literatures. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he wrote a poem, four liner, where, I can’t remember the Bengali right now or the Sanskrit, but he basically said that, “ Lord Caitanya has varieties of energies. Some of those energies are engaged in writing transcendental literatures, and other energies are engaged in distributing them like Śrīnivāsa Ācārya. He mentioned writing like Rūpa and Sanātana.”

So the Six Gosvāmīs, they wrote transcendental literatures which even to this day and which for the next thousand millenniums they are going to be the standard of pure devotional service. Similarly, Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, Śyāmānanda Paṇḍita, other they took those literatures and they distributed, and they preached on them. They established the authority that Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhū, this is the proper understanding of the purpose of the Bhāgavatam, this is where the Bhāgavatam is leading one. This is the method of how to practice in this Kali-yuga, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

But everyone is a team. Everyone living in the temple is a part of this brahminical team to disseminate Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the society at large. When people are going out distributing books and someone else is cooking for them. It’s not that that person is not engaged in the preaching activity. He is part of the team and actually that attitude should be adopted by everyone. This is our purpose is for giving out Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the society at large. If they are having difficulty in assuming that then sometimes, they should go out on harināma, or go on some activity just to see how the people in the world are needing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and to get in that attitude. But everyone should feel a part of that preaching mission.

There is a special idea of having these temples and having the communities is for disseminating Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the people at large. So no one should ever doubt what is the purpose, that the purpose of the activity is for disseminating. That is our actual gain. That is what we want to take as our gain. Because Śrīla Prabhupāda, he said, “If we give Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and if our purpose is to please Kṛṣṇa, then we go to Kṛṣṇa, but if we have some other purpose, then Kṛṣṇa may give us that. He may fulfill that particular desire, but then we don’t get Kṛṣṇa.” If someone wants some material thing in exchange for this devotional service, foolish in one sense, of course you can get it, Kṛṣṇa will give. One should still do devotional service, no doubt. It’s said,

akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ
tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena
yajeta puruṣaṁ param
(ŚB 2.3.10)

But it’s like more mundane type example, if you go to a multi-millionaire and you’re sitting in his office, he says “I can… Alright, what do you want?” and if you ask him, “Give me some ashes from your ashtray.” What is the use of that? You can get that anywhere. If you try to go to the trouble of approaching someone big, at least then you can ask something significant. Like in India, the big multi-millionaires, they are not approached to donate a bag of rice. They’re cultivated and they’re approached to give some significant contribution for building a temple, or for doing something.

One, Mr. Birla came to visit our temple. At the same time, the Secretary of the Communist Party of India was there, and one of the biggest newspaper reporters also showed up. So, he saw that the biggest industrialist is here. Down the hall is the biggest communist. They’re both staying in the same Hare Kṛṣṇa Guesthouse in Māyāpur. So, then he asked the Communist that, “Well what are you doing here? Here the capitalists are here.”

He said, “No, this is a place for everyone. It is the place for the people. It’s alright.” (laughter)

Then he went to the capitalist and said, “What are you doing here?”

And he said, “Well it’s a place of God. Very nice atmosphere. We come here.” He said.

So then, when the… Mr. Birla got back home, he said, “I think you know that I liked your temple very much, liked the activities. Here’s a small token of my appreciation. He gave a 25,000 rupees donation.

Devotees: Jaya!

Jayapatākā Swami: (inaudible) He knew we were going to be visiting him anyways, so. (Laughter) But that kind of donation, it shows his sincere appreciation and that’s the kind of thing that uh… that’s what a vaiśya should do. But this is a type of cultivation. People in general, they can appreciate, “Oh, here’s something which is being done.” So the point is that if we have any desire for material that we take it like that. There was a philanthropist. We ask him for ashes, what’s the use? A person like that, even without asking he’ll give you 25,000. Even without asking, what to speak if you ask him, there are people who can contribute in dollars, easily they can contribute, 5, 10, 20, 30,000 dollars at a time, but it takes years of cultivation, sometimes before they have that amount of faith.

It’s not that the first time they come, we sign them up and they’ll give you five dollars for sure. But in any case, if you’re going to ask them for something, what’s the use of asking for something insignificant? If you’re going to ask for something, then ask for something which is suitable to their uh, capacity. So, when you’re serving Kṛṣṇa, why ask Him for something material, which you can get anywhere. You can even get it, just you know with a little material karma, what to speak of…

Get from Kṛṣṇa, what He really has to offer. That is His eternal devotional service. That is the actual gain. That’s what it means to be a brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava is to understand what is the actual goal of life? ahaṁ brahmāsmi is brāhmaṇa. I’m not this body; I’m spirit soul. I’m a part of Brahman. And a Vaiṣṇava means jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’. I’m the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

One question.

Question: Generally, the people in India, are they fooled by the charlatan sannyāsīs and renunciates?

Jayapatākā Swami: It’s the cheaters and the cheated.

Comment: But they threw out Rajneesh.

Jayapatākā Swami: He wasn’t offering them anything but something they didn’t want. They have some morality in India. (with laugh) He was just immoral. I mean, at least the normal sādhūs offer, “Well, if you touch my feet, or other… give some worship, you can have a big family, or you can have a lot of material facility.” Or “Do whatever you want.” Type of thing. But then Rajneesh was actively promoting immoral activities. Just too much.

Comment: Orgies and stuff in the name of some kind of mission.

Question: How is it that Orissa was kept uh, strong, you know, in the history of a Vaiṣṇava kings, the Muslims didn’t conquer it, now it’s so poor, and Gujarat, which was conquered by Muslims, now it’s so rich?

Jayapatākā Swami: Because the Orissans gave the biggest, the hardest time to the English to take over. They were like the last to go, and even after the British took over, the Orissans, they just don’t like to be controlled.

[Aside: I don’t know who tied this knot there, particularly under, but it’s not convenient for class.]

So, the British, purposely didn’t develop Orissa. They kept the people really down. There is no industry there. Zero industry. There is… They just didn’t… they just… but they developed big cotton mills and they developed Gujarat. Tobacco, cotton, so because of that. Plus the Orissans are good brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas. I don’t know even how developed their vaiśyas are. But the Rajasthani’s and Gujarati’s vaiśyas are very developed. Bengal and Orissa’s brāhmaṇas are very famous all over India. But uh, their vaiśyas are not like super famous. I mean, they have… of all of them, the suvarṇa-vaṇikas are the most together vaiśyas of Bengal, and we’ve got sādhūs but I mean… they’re alright… I mean… but they’re not proven to be as effective uh, a vaiśya as uh, the uh, Marwari vaiśyas, Agarwalla, or as these uh…

Devotee: Patel.

Jayapatākā Swami: Yeah. These are Gujaratis are pretty industries people. They’ve gone all over the world, and… and were very effective. Sindhis have shown some pretty good acumen and different… So right now, the world is economic competition. But they were kept back by the British. Everyone knows that. But that was the British’s thing. “If you cooperate with us, we’ll cooperate with you.” And the… the Orissans didn’t cooperate so… the Bengalis did, so they had the Capital in Calcutta.

Devotee: His point was that, the Moguls, how did they manage to take Gujarat, being so religious and Vaiṣṇava?

Jayapatākā Swami: That wasn’t his question.

Devotee: It’s said that the kṣatriyas, when they die in battle, they go to heaven planets. Now, some kṣatriyas were battling, they were on the right side’s army, some others were on the wrong side. (inaudible) …some fighting against them. They fought (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: The point is that, these kṣatriyas… everybody thinks they’re right. (laughter) So, when they can… everyone told them they weren’t right, but they were considering that they were right, and they had reasons, which were right. But… so then only way it could be decided was by going to war, but they were going and fighting according to the principles of the Vedas. So that’s different than a thief robbing in the night, and then you kill the thief and he’s fighting with you, he dies, that’s not kṣatriya, but following the religious principle, you have a dispute… They think… you’re right. You think you’re right. They think they’re right. Then, so, who’s to say exactly who’s right? You know. Ultimately, the brāhmaṇas, they give their opinion, but uh, you know, it gets political. So in some cases, uh, they… if they’re following the… my understanding is that if they’re following the Vedic system and they’re fighting according to the Vedic rules and if they die in that type of… you know, if they die, in a… in a… in a battle, like that, that was considered uh, enough. They run away, and they get shot in the back, or something, they’re not going to… if they die face forward in the battle.

Comment: People ask us sometimes. They ask about (inaudible) Iraq, Korean War, (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Well they’re not going to get liberation. They’re certainly in material consciousness, but that’s a type of piety. That kind of an integrity, the demigods can appreciate to some extent. Of course, they’re mlecchas, yavanas, cow-killers. I mean, there’s… especially applied for kṣatriyas, but whether it applies for everyone in a battle, whether it applies for yavanas in a battle, or mlecchas in a battle…

Question: Well, in the 12th Chapter, does it mention that anywhere?

Comment: Yeah, it mentions that one can even do… you see, if he has a concept like his country is God, he works in that direction, then Kṛṣṇa won’t accept. Kṛṣṇa says “If you can’t surrender to Me, then work for Me, and in the purports there, that 12.7 Prabhupāda describes that even like social work with the selfless dedication, that will gradually advance one till he comes to knowledge.

Jayapatākā Swami: The point is the kṣatriya sees that he’s doing his duty for… to God. That this is his duty. This duty is a law, which is handed down by God so that even in their dying like that, although it definitely has some material motivation, but there’s also a connection with… with Kṛṣṇa. So, definitely they’re getting a more glorious… by dying in the battle for their… for their… for God and their country, they’re going to get a better reaction. Because the point is, even if they commit so many sinful activities, that itself is purifying. I mean, they’ve given their life.

Just like a man gets hung, he gets to go to svarga, to heavenly planet after getting hung, even he is a murderer. Because he is considered absolved. He gets… he gets his karmas, shwip, wiped out for that. I don’t know how high up he goes, but he gets absolved from that karma. So similarly, if a person is dying in a battle like that, that’s uh, purifying. But I know that Kṛṣṇa, He didn’t want to fight with the yavanas. “Tell the Yavana king I don’t want to fight Him.”

The more that they’re God conscious, you’ll get a… it’s the best way for someone like that to go.

Comment: I heard that the radio show was very very nice. In my lowly opinion, it sound like uh, you were going in a like needle, and coming out like a house. Because… (inaudible) …some svāmī from India, uh Māyāpur, and then as it went for a while, then the points became bigger, and it seemed to be very effective. But I noticed also that the commentator, Joe Cullota, whatever his name is, you could see the importance of… like you were speaking of Bhagavad-gītā. Prabhupāda’s books. The import… because he presented so… as having studied some Oriental philosophy, some Indian philosophy, but every word out of his mouth was impersonalism, and without Prabhupāda’s books that’s what is happening to everybody. Prabhupāda’s books are… because I’d read so many books, before I came: All impersonal. Everyone.

Jayapatākā Swami: Yes. He was talking Zen Buddhism or something. Giving up your ego, and nothingness or something. It seemed too big a subject to relay. I mean I didn’t know how much time I have.

Lathika Bhakti?

Mataji: (inaudible)

Jayapatākā Swami: Prabhupāda told one devotee that uh… whose father owned a factory that he should make his factory Kṛṣṇa conscious, have his tapes playing, programs. So uh, the point is uh, the uh, especially the brāhmaṇas would be following all of the principles, and he would try to get everyone to follow all the principles, at least, as many as possible, and yes, people would take up the different occupations. Definitely there would be an army, everything. But... In this way, it’s essential that we have qualified brāhmaṇas, people who know the philosophy who can uh, dissolve the people’s doubts. Of course, if the whole world becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then uh, you still need an army just to keep out the thieves and rogues, but there’s always going to be some rogues, there’s always going to be some anti-social elements. You’re going to need a police force and an army in this world.

Even in svarga, they have their full army. Even the heavenly planets they have an army, so what to speak of here. But obviously, it wouldn’t be… it would be less… it wouldn’t be overdone to the extent that it is today, if there’s no conflict. The one, when I was leaving the radio show, the person after me was a schoolteacher, Glen something. He said, “Well, if everybody had one idea…” And he said, “Or if people were like this…” Joe Culotta said, “If people were like this, then there’d be no wars in the world.”

He said, “Well, if everybody had one idea, there’d be no war.” That was his intellectual adjustment. That was… the thing is that there are some places you can get islands. You can make it your own country. But then if you do that, then the nature is you see, then if you’re in your own country, then who protects you? There are pirates in most places. There’s pirates and they’ll just come and rob you and they have the arms, and cannons, and bazookas and all kind of stuff.

So, if you own your country that means that just… you know, then you got to have your army, you got to have your defense,you have to have everything. That’s why a lot of these small countries are like called Protectorates. They’re under you know, bigger like Britain, or Engl… or America or something. Bhutan has got a defense agreement with India. So, if you have a country, you got to have an army, at least to defend yourself from... If you don’t, you’re just like open prey. There people come and take advantage.

Yes?

Question: Can the devotees preach in outer space?

Jayapatākā Swami: Some people are there, we’ve heard. Some of the devotees are there. (laughter) I heard someone said some devotee was spaced out. (laughter) Let’s do first things first. We’re worrying about outer space. We haven’t even got the inner space yet. If a person really wants to… if preaching in a civilized society is too difficult, well then there’s also… there’s a lot of tribal people in the world. That’s where the Christians go. (laughter) In India, different places.

The Pope just visited New Guinea, and made a big inroad preaching to the aborigines and headhunters there, made them all Christians there, carried a big cross. It was a big thing. It’s fairly easy to preach to those people. Of course, maybe Christianity’s easier because they just get them to stop eating human flesh, but they can eat everything else (laughter). But you want to get them to be vegetarian… but I mean there’s other, not so far gone tribals, and they’re very simple people. You can preach to them. And many people think that they’re in outer space.

In the future, we’ll go to other planets, no doubt. I don’t know about the space in between them. The uh… there are of course, different levels in between where like Yakṣas and others live. So, we can go and preach there also. But normally to do that, you have to have a body which is suitable for those environments. Since right now, Kṛṣṇa is given us a body here which is suitable for this environment, and this body only lasts 60, 70 years, 80 years anyway, so we should take the… make the best use of this bargain, and preach here, and then subsequently, in our next birth, we’ll have opportunity to, if we have a keen desire to preach in other places, we could take birth there and able to preach there.

Some liberated souls, they return back to Kṛṣṇa, and then preach again other places.

Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa Śrīla Ācāryapada!