19810721 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.2.24

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on July 21, 1981 in Śrīdhām Māyāpur, India. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam Canto 2, Chapter 2, Text 24.

vaiśvānaraṁ yāti vihāyasā gataḥ 
suṣumṇayā brahma-pathena śociṣā 
vidhūta-kalko ’tha harer udastāt 
prayāti cakraṁ nṛpa śaiśumāram

śloka repetitions

vaiśvānaram — the controlling deity of fire; yāti — goes; vihāyasā — by the path in the sky (the Milky Way); gataḥ — by passing over; suṣumṇayā — by the Suṣumṇā; brahma — Brahmaloka; pathena — on the way to; śociṣā — illuminating; vidhūta — being washed off; kalkaḥ — dirt; atha — thereafter; hareḥ — of Lord Hari; udastāt — upwards; prayāti — does reach; cakram — circle; nṛpa — O King; śaiśumāram — named Śiśumāra.

Translation: O King, when such a mystic passes over the Milky Way by the illuminating Suṣumṇā to reach the highest planet, Brahmaloka, he goes first to Vaiśvānara, the planet of the deity of fire, wherein he becomes completely cleansed of all contaminations, and thereafter he still goes higher, to the circle of Śiśumāra, to relate with Lord Hari, the Personality of Godhead.

Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: The polar star of the universe and the circle thereof is called the Śiśumāra circle, and therein the local residential planet of the Personality of Godhead (Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu) is situated. Before reaching there, the mystic passes over the Milky Way to reach Brahmaloka, and while going there he first reaches Vaiśvānara-loka, where the demigod controls fire. On Vaiśvānara-loka the yogī becomes completely cleansed of all dirty sins acquired while in contact with the material world. The Milky Way in the sky is indicated herein as the way leading to Brahmaloka, the highest planet of the universe.

This is the completion of the purport of Text 24, Chapter 2, Canto 2 of the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

Jayapatāka Swami: (Spoken between Mahārāja Parīkṣit) So, here we are discussing how a transcendentalist, proceeds out of this universe. Choice is there to the transcendentalist, how far he wants to go, at any point he can stop. You see. 

If a yogī is fully fixed on Kṛṣṇa then he crosses over all of these levels and goes to Kṛṣṇa. But if someone, as it mentions earlier, wants to enjoy subtle material mystic powers, then he has to take with him subtle mind and intelligence and senses for doing such activities.

Here describes one may reach Maharloka. (Aside: previously may be described Maharloka.) Anyway describes, one may reach the Maharloka also, which is a great planet of realized souls like Bhṛgu Muni and others. That is also destroyed at the end of the day of Brahma.

Here describes one may reach Maharloka. (Aside: previously may be described Maharloka.) Anyway describes, one may reach the Maharloka also, which is a great planet of realized souls like Bhṛgu Muni and others. That is also destroyed at the end of the day of Brahma.

At that time, they transfer themselves to the Satyaloka and from there, they are able to stay until the end of the universe. When Lord Brahma’s life is finished then the Satyaloka is finished. So here it mentions that Viṣṇuloka as Suṣumṇā. The Suṣumṇā, excuse me that is called the Śiśumāra. Śiśumāra does not destroy at the end of this universe. And if he fixes his mind on Kṛṣṇa, he goes to Kṛṣṇa.

So, King Kulaśekhara, he prays that his mind, well, now being focused on Kṛṣṇa, that, he may now be able to leave his body. Because at the time of death, it is very difficult. At the time of death, 107 fever may come. Voice gets choked up. Gug gug gug. How one can chant the holy name then? At the time of death, 107 fever may come. Voice gets choked up. Gug gug gug. How one can chant the holy name then? So, King Kulaśekhara, he was requesting right in, just now leave his body, go back to Kṛṣṇa, with his full consciousness fixed on Kṛṣṇa. At the time of natural death, his mind may not be so able to be fixed.

So, King Kulaśekhara, he was requesting right in, just now leave his body, go back to Kṛṣṇa, with his full consciousness fixed on Kṛṣṇa. At the time of natural death, his mind may not be so able to be fixed.

Devotee should be afraid of this material nature. This is the necessary part of advancement. Those who are too proud, they think that, “Well, let me delay my departure, let me just first of all make so many material arrangements. Then later on I’ll just make some arrangement to go back to Kṛṣṇa.” They are great fools. They don’t know how tricky māyā is. Those who are too proud, they think that, “Well, let me delay my departure, let me just first of all make so many material arrangements. Then later on I’ll just make some arrangement to go back to Kṛṣṇa.” They are great fools. They don’t know how tricky māyā is. Māyā is very powerful.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā 
mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te
(Bg 7.14)

Very difficult to cross over māyā. Only if one fixes and gets the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, it is possible. So, who can say, when they are going to leave this body?

(Aside: Pādasevana, can you say when you are going to leave your body? Bhadri, at what age you leave?)

You can give guarantee? My mother asked me that, “Why you don’t become a sādhu, when you are an old man?” When I first joined, she came and tried to convince me, I should go back to my family. I told my mother, if you can give me written guarantee, or any kind of guarantee, and how long I am going to live, then I could consider.

At first, my mother, she couldn’t give any definite date, which should be the departure date. So, I said, “I may die next week, I may die in one minute, or one year. So, If I am going to die in one year, that means I am very old now. So, I have to spend my one year very wisely. So, I said, “I may die next week, I may die in one minute, or one year. So, If I am going to die in one year, that means I am very old now. So, I have to spend my one year very wisely. Now I have to become so much more attached to Kṛṣṇa to ensure, me reaching His Lotus feet.”

Devotee is using every second thinking, “This may be my last, let me use this last minute to reach Kṛṣṇa.” See, easy way to reach Kṛṣṇa. But if you are thinking, when may be very old, so now I can take so many plans for my material happiness and then in the end, I will simply wind up with the little intense hari-sevā. We may not enough time in our hand, who can say?

Even one performs devotional service, he may not finish. That doesn’t matter. Whatever he did, he never loses. From there, he again begins. He gets eternal credit. This is the very kind facility given by Kṛṣṇa. So, in this way we should consider, how to use our time wisely. Every minute, we should consider that our time is limited. It is not unlimited. So, in this way we should consider, how to use our time wisely. Every minute, we should consider that our time is limited. It is not unlimited. If we waste our time, how much money we can give to get back 10 minutes? One lakh of rupees can buy 10 minutes?

(Aside: Don’t put the books down. People are walking there. Touch it to your head. You come to the temple, instead of the Suṣumṇā path, you want to go to Naraka path. Second time I remind the people not to put the books down where the feet go. Bhāgavatam it says, if you keep in the house all the demigods, they come daily and offer their obeisances to Bhāgavatam, it is the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa in book form. And if you are putting it just on our feet, then this is the great offense or putting it while you are walking. Bhāgavatam it says, if you keep in the house all the demigods, they come daily and offer their obeisances to Bhāgavatam, it is the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa in book form. And if you are putting it just on our feet, then this is the great offense or putting it while you are walking. Specially people from India should know better.)

So, here we are, this is the path, back to home, back to Godhead. We are studying today, how to get back to home. Here is giving all the sign words. Have you memorized the path? So, here we are, this is the path, back to home, back to Godhead. We are studying today, how to get back to home. Here is giving all the sign words. Have you memorized the path? When you leave your body, now you know which way to go. You should study this.

Of course, the real thing is that, all this very complicated for the yogīs, they have to remember all these different levels. But for the devotees it is simple. Of course, the real thing is that, all this very complicated for the yogīs, they have to remember all these different levels. But for the devotees it is simple. Devotee simply fixes his mind on Kṛṣṇa. Unless he gets Kṛṣṇa, then he doesn’t stay anywhere. If a devotee gets to any of these planets, then he thinks, “Oh pretty nice place! Maybe I’ll stay here!” Then he won’t go further. So, this is the thing. We should know, what is Kṛṣṇaloka and if we go to any other loka, then we should be continually thinking about Kṛṣṇaloka, that will take us there. Is Kṛṣṇa, He will satisfy our desire, by that desire also we will be purified.

The Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta describes how devotee goes to the different planetary systems, sometime finally reaching the holy dhāma of the Lord and being transferred to the spiritual sky, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So, Kṛṣṇa is waiting for the devotee to We are taking the delay. We are dragging our feet. We are taking the delay. We are dragging our feet. We are not thinking that Kṛṣṇa is waiting. We are thinking about so many other things. We should be running to Kṛṣṇa. We are thinking about so many other things. We should be running to Kṛṣṇa. So, how we run is, we should always be absorbed in service. We shouldn’t think, how I can reduce my service and get a little peace. We should be thinking how to always stay fully engaged about little more than what we are able to do even. So that there is no scope for māyā to enter in.

As soon as, there is a little time for contemplating and thinking, immediately we think about our senses. “Oh! My senses are not satisfied! I need so many things to satisfy my senses.” When we are so filled with service, then there is no time to think. That’s why, like the Jagannātha Ratha-yātrā, the very nice program. Such festival soon we have. Usually there is so much service to be done. No one can think of any sense gratification. They simply have to work day and night to get the festival fulfilled. Then after the festival is over, then we should maintain that same enthusiasm. You see. Then after the festival is over, then we should maintain that same enthusiasm. Not that then we reduce our enthusiasm, because māyā then again will try to enter. Devotee may, his relaxation is chanting, hearing, ah, discussion with devotees for short time, then immediately back into the preaching. This is the devotee's life you see. This is the samādhi of action.

Arjuna was a great politician, great king, family. But when Kṛṣṇa offered him that, “You should simply sit down and meditate.”, he said, “No, I have to be active.”  Then Kṛṣṇa told him about the process of bhakti-yoga, “You always be engaged in My service.” So, those who are the active people, they should take advantage of this bhakti-yoga path and simply absorb themselves in the service.

Other point to note here, is that, one is going always upward, that is the goal, to reach the highest planet. This is the real yogī, the real transcendentalist. In this world, people they don’t know, what is up and what is down. They are thinking that sex life is the advantage. The whole world is running after sense gratification. But actually, they are simply being absorbed more and more into materialistic concept of life.

Whole world is simply running after so many imagined solutions to their imagined problems or real problems. But nowhere solution is ever achieved, because they don’t know, what is up and what is down, what is the real advancement, what is real degradation.

Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa has come down and given us therefore the light so we could know which way to go. We should try to follow His instructions, we should follow the footsteps of these great devotees and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness wholeheartedly.

So, the more we can chant and more we can encourage others to chant, become instrument in the hands of the Lord, the more we will feel His transcendental presence. This should be our attempt, simply be an instrument in the hands of the Lord. That is the real freedom.

That yogī, he can move all over the universe. The materialist, they cannot do so. That yogī, he can move all over the universe. The materialist, they cannot do so. Real freedom comes in surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Devotees free to go, in different places or to go back to Kṛṣṇa. But materialist, he is limited simply to his karmic reactions. Devotees free to go, in different places or to go back to Kṛṣṇa. But materialist, he is limited simply to his karmic reactions. So real freedom means to be the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Enter in to the real free life, life of eternal service to Kṛṣṇa.

Jai śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare 
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma,
Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

Questions?

Question: No audio.

Jayapatākā Swami: Yogīs going by the mechanical process of controlling the prāṇāyāma and the living force, but the pure devotee, he may chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go out through his mouth, he may go out in different ways. Fixing his mind on Kṛṣṇa, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he goes back to Kṛṣṇa. He is not dependent on the mechanical process. Kṛṣṇa says, “My devotee shall never perish.” Even the devotee, he doesn’t finish his business, Kṛṣṇa still have some under way, eventually he will reach definitely. Pure devotee goes to Kṛṣṇa. Doesn’t have to go out from here.

Devotee: (Noisy audio) By Kṛṣṇa mercy… but when I think about it, I found out that actually what is coming out from my mouth is not my… Usually I am enthusing that moment when I am preaching to these people and they become enthuse also. Sometimes I think I am a cheater, because I say to them, I don’t feel anything of them inside. ….

Jayapatākā Swami: No, the point is that, when you are preaching, and depending on Kṛṣṇa, then at that time, you are becoming an instrument in Kṛṣṇa’s hand, so, then you are feeling transcendental happiness. You are cheating yourself that you are not able to always be instrument. That’s why preaching is very purifying. Therefore, everyone is recommended to do maximum preaching. The more that we can feel as an instrument that we can be as an instrument in Kṛṣṇa’s hand, by fully surrendering to Him, that is the perfection.

See even if a moment, you are feeling transcendental happiness, how is that cheating, if you tell someone about that? Or if you at that moment, you are also inspiring that person. It is only due to the lack of advancement you are not able to maintain that, but very soon you will reach as soon as all the type of unwanted desires are cleansed from the heart, then you reach the fixed stage where that happiness, that enthusiasm is unwavering. That is called niṣṭha. And then beyond that one would get, has… Although sometimes we get a taste, that devotional service is very nice, then we lose the taste for a little while, then again we get it. That means we are still in the clearing plane. We are still clearing out so many offenses. It may take long years of clearing, that depends on how much we are able to put ourselves in the fire. But every time we are getting that little taste, that’s also clearing out so much more.

It describes, when the devotee some time is jumping and dancing and clapping (clapping sound) the hands and smiling before Jagannātha, the deity, that by clapping the hands and smiling, that is like the birds go and eat in the rice field, you clap the hands, they fly off, then all the sins are just flying off, just like birds from the heart.

So, like that so many services gradually, they are reducing the load. But when our load is completely reduced, then we reach this higher and higher platforms, and then one doesn’t, one simply goes from better to more to better. Doesn’t go from mediocre to better, It’s always an ecstatic platform. And even sometimes it become more intense and more intense.

You see, just like when you are riding a 10 speed bicycle, you know bicycle? You are at 10 speeds. (Italy has, Italy has the break first.) And then you go as far as you can go right, then you go to the second, then it seems little harder at first, right, then you drive and ish, you up and third, you are pedaling like this.

So, one reaches a certain level of advancement and then suddenly, he gets a little wind or little boost, he goes up, you see, then happens is, again shifting gear, and then he thinks, oh! Then as one goes to other services, he is thinking that, this is little hard, then from there again one pushes up and in this way, one always going higher and higher.

What you think is difficult now, was impossible for you a year ago, and one year from now would you think is difficult, now you won’t think that you could even do it. And in this way, one is going on. You see. Prabhupāda working day and night, at such an advanced age, preaching because he is on the transcendental platform. So, what we should do, we should pull ourselves by that drive, the eagerness, to always taste that pleasure of doing some sincere service for Kṛṣṇa. If you see someone enthuse in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, why you are feeling happy, Kṛṣṇa is happy. Especially in preaching even the, one overcomes so many offenses. That’s why one gets the special feeling then, ordinary service is not do so much.

Especially in preaching even the, one overcomes so many offenses. That’s why one gets the special feeling then, ordinary service is not do so much.

Any question Badri?

Devotee: … meaning of mahā-mantra?

Jayapatākā Swami: There is a meaning, so many meanings, but highest meaning is that mahā-mantra is Kṛṣṇa himself.

Devotee: How can you factoring me like when both Rāma and Kṛṣṇa is there…

Jayapatākā Swami: Same

Devotee: Both are same?!

Jayapatākā Swami: Non-different.

Devotee: How can you preach whether they are same or different?

Jayapatākā Swami: You go on chanting and you will feel it.

Devotee: But in this scriptures, we can see Rāma is…

Jayapatākā Swami: Just like in kīrtana, you are dancing, but you are dancing 1, 2, 1, 2 and chanting little loud. They are chanting very loud and jumping. So, if you jump little bit or you wait. Sometimes you feel urge to dance, if you chant loudly, more and more you put yourselves in the fire, then you will more and more experience that how Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. How Kṛṣṇa can change the sinful life of the all the people. I always request, try chant and dance. Don’t think what other people are thinking, just go on, absorbing oneself in Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: …not only Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, we are also worshipping … Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa?!

Jayapatākā Swami: Because Kṛṣṇa with śakti. There is always śakti and Śaktimān, just like Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, Sītā-Rāma, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: you can only worship the Śaktimān? ….

Jayapatākā Swami: You see if you worship the Śakti, then it is more easy to achieve the Śaktimān. First of all, Śaktimān is never alone, you never find Kṛṣṇa alone. He is always with devotee. Either cow, cow herder, cowherd boy, gopī someone is with. He is never alone. Śakti is always surrounding the Śaktimān. Just like, can you worship sun without sunlight? There is sun but no sunlight. Is it possible? Have you ever seen the sun without sunlight? Why you want to see the Lord without devotee? Sun means must have sunlight. Sunlight and sun is no difference, yet there is difference. Now sun is coming here. Do I, can I say sun is here?

Devotee: No.

Jayapatākā Swami: So, some difference. So, sun and sunlight, they are always connected. They inseparable. So, śakti, and Śaktimān they are inseparable. So, we worship śakti, because by mercy of the potency of Kṛṣṇa, His devotee, Rādhā, She is very compassionate. By their mercy we can easily get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.

Māyāvādī idea type of tinge is that, alright I worship the Lord but not. Because they don’t understand, that since why Lord will have woman with Him, woman means māyā. So, Why Lord is having woman? She is not ordinary woman, śakti. Śakti means transcendental potency. Kṛṣṇa is not man, neither His consort is woman. He is the Parama Puruṣa, She is the hlādinī-śakti. Just like the sun makes sunlight, Kṛṣṇa makes the śakti and the śakti serve Him.

But that is not like we find in this material world. It is a separate relationship, which is described in the Bhāgavatam, and in other, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And these things can only be understood by liberated souls. They can understand that Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes with gopīs or with Rādhā or with the queens of Dvārakā are nothing to do with material activity.

Devotee: Yesterday night in the program, the first … is the singer uttered the mahā-mantra Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare/ Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. But there are moment was there … But Rāma is the First incarnation of this age, of this world, next Kṛṣṇa comes. So mahā-mantra should be … first Rāma …. next Kṛṣṇa. Is it correct Guru Mahārāja?

Jayapatākā Swami: We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He told us to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa first.

Devotee: first Kṛṣṇa?! Rāma first aaya…

Jayapatākā Swami: He says that someone who doesn’t have the shelter of Lord Caitanya, he will not be able to overcome the offenses. You see.

Jayapatākā Swami: Hare Kṛṣṇa

Aside: (Devotee: Sorry I am little late…

Jayapatākā Swami: No problem. Achha Achha Very nice)

This process was especially taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His advice is to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa first, this will help to have one avoid the offenses. One can chant the name of Kṛṣṇa, and commit offenses. He can chant for even thousand births and more and he won’t achieve the success. So, this process, one hand is chanting, other hand is avoiding offenses. This is being described that you will get the seed of devotion bhakti-latā-bīja. So, process is one hand watering the seed. What is thatwater?

mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa 
śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana

(Cc Madhya 19.152)

The secana means śravaṇādi - śravaṇa-kīrtana. śravaṇa, kīrtana, smaraṇa, vandana, pada-sevana, dāsya, sakhyam, ātma-nivedana – nava-vidha-bhakti. This is the watering. On one hand we are watering, other hand we are pulling the weeds. We are taking out the offenses.

If we only water and don’t take out the offense, then what will be the effect? If you have the rice field then you are putting fertilizer, near paddy field you are putting water, but you are not weeding, how much rice you get? The whole field will become overrun with grass. So, there also, also be the weeding process.

People want to do dharma, but not to stop doing unauthorized activities. So, dharma will give them more energy, but they use energy to do more unauthorized activity. Then they are not going back, they are not able to reach Kṛṣṇa even for thousand births. Therefore, one has to take the shelter of bona fide spiritual master, who can take out what are the defects. As the defects are reduced, just if you take a little bit of weeds out, so much more the rice will grow. And unrestricted if you leave, all the grass grow and the rice grow, the grass will smother out the rice. Even after some time the dharma he will also stop. So, there has to be the weeding process.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is given the science, how to chant, how to avoid the offenses. There is 2 type, one is offense against Vaiṣṇava, śāstra, devotees, guru-aparādha is aparādha, one other is weed. These 2 type of thing has to be avoided. So, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa first, this helps one to avoid different offenses. We follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His mercy, by His kṛpā, we can proceed quickly. That is His special mercy.

Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya 
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja 
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo 
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(Bg 18.66)

You must surrender fully unto me, (you see) giving up all type of other dharma, other responsibilities, then I’ll deliver you from all the reactions to your sinful activities.

But that's very difficult to do. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is the most merciful incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, if one simply fully chants Kṛṣṇa’s name, fully tries to chant, has even the desire and tries by chanting always as much as possible Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then by Lord Caitanya’s mercy, he is delivered to Kṛṣṇa.

So, in the Vedas, it gives also, both Hare Rāma first and Hare Kṛṣṇa first. In the Santaraṇa Upaniṣad, it gives Hare Rāma first, in other Purāṇas it gives Hare Kṛṣṇa first. Those who are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa first. That we always chant Caitanya’s name first, then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa because we want His help. Otherwise it may take us long time to reach.

Due to our offenses we are not perfect in our chanting. We are not sarva-dharmān parityajya. Although we are chanting, so many mistakes we are making also. So therefore, we need the Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s special help. So, those who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa without, we can see that although they are chanting, but you compare them and those who are the followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, what speed the advancement is being made? Although they are chanting whole life, they still sometime, they can’t stop taking beedis and so on and so forth, then?!

But look at even in the western countries, people are chanting the short time, and whole life is changed. That means that some process is effective. Just like now, how does a doctor get the big fame in this world? Any doctor, if he can cure cancer today, he will become a famous doctor. Isn’t it? why?

Devotee: Because …

Jayapatākā Swami: Because cancer is the incurable disease. So, Who is there, that it ever able to cure, and make pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa from the western people. Here British were in India 200 years. How many Britishers became pure devotees of Kṛṣṇa, while they were in India? Maybe there was somebody. But you can count them on one hand. If any, I don’t know, I never heard. In 200 years, how many, famous very hard to find, even any. So, how is it that Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was able to make so many people. You see. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu potency is there.

Not only Prabhupāda, even His Gurudeva made German and British also devotees, few. But he didn’t go abroad, therefore he couldn’t make more. So, this potency of Caitanya Mahāprabhu is to destroy offense, if someone already is pure, then very quickly makes advancement.

Actually, Vallabhācārya from… He personally took Caitanya Mahāprabhu in his house and gave Him prasādam.

Devotee: Inaudible

Jayapatākā Swami: Yes, He is the… they know. He is a great ācārya.

Devotee: from south India?

Jayapatākā Swami: No, he is from Gujarat, He went preaching Gujarat. Actually, he is, I don’t think He is originally from Gujarat. But he went preaching there. He took shelter in the Viṣṇu Svāmī Sect. And he went to Jagannātha Purī and he met Lord Caitanya several times. It’s in Caitanya caritāmṛta. He is a great devotee.

Devotee: … able to… authorized and unauthorized activities. What is that?

Jayapatākā Swami: What other programs are pending now? Authorized and unauthorized?

Devotee: … I say I…

Jayapatākā Swami: If you are doing politics for your own sense gratification, for your community, for your state, or for your nation, then, on the ultimate absolute vision it is unauthorized. And if you are doing it for Kṛṣṇa, then it is authorized. That is absolute vision.

Devotee: How can you know that it is authorized, it is non-authorized?

Jayapatākā Swami: That’s what that we have to sadhu, śāstra, guru. We have to analyze by the scripture. That is what is being done according to scripture. Is it sanctioned by the guru, by the spiritual master? Just like and is it authorized by the other saintly people? They also… Just like Candragupta, the great king of North India, how he was able to conquer so much. He was always following his guru. Bali Mahārāja followed his guru and so his political endeavor was able to conquer the whole universe. But Indradeva, when he disobeyed his guru, then he was kicked out of the Indraloka. So unauthorized…

Authorized means sādhu, śāstra, guru. But Bali Mahārāja and Indra, they both had material desires. They wanted to do politics for the material purpose. You see. While Yudhiṣṭhira here and Arjuna he didn’t. He used to conceive from the Gītā, he had no desire. “What? I don’t want the kingdom. No need.” Kṛṣṇa said that, “You should do it for Me. Because I want you to establish a Kṛṣṇa conscious kingdom.”

See, if one is actually, doing it for Kṛṣṇa to establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you see authorized by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also wants that. That is truly authorized in all respects. That is bhakti-yoga. And the other that is like karma-yoga, they are doing it under the authorization of the guru. But it is not exactly, perfectly, without a personal consideration. But whatever personal consideration is there, it is ultimately to being offered to the cause of dharma, to the guru.

Devotee: And the individual soul enters into Kṛṣṇaloka will never come back to the material world?

Jayapatākā Swami: Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Won’t come back.

Devotee: When we forget Kṛṣṇa, when we requested to satisfy Kṛṣṇa we fall down in this material world. Isn’t it?

Jayapatākā Swami: We weren’t in Kṛṣṇaloka then.

Devotee: That mean we are not in Kṛṣṇaloka?! Then?

Jayapatākā Swami: Generally speaking living entities are in the brahma-jyoti. From brahma-jyoti, they, they want to do action, they don’t know about Lord’s dhāma, so, they decide that I want to enjoy and they go to the material world. Reaching Kṛṣṇaloka, highest abode. People may fall from the borders of Vaikuṇṭha and this brahma-jyoti.

Once having returned plus once burnt, once you burn yourself, just like sometimes people say, they see sign “wet paint”, right? Then generally you see, as soon as that there are any sign “wet Paint”, they always go like this. Paint say that, “wet paint”, but then they have to, “Just see for myself, is it still wet?” And then it stick here, all white, “achha”, then again, they won’t touch. Why they touch the first time, it says, “Wet paint”. This is the nature to be little inquisitive.

It is said, “Don’t go there.” “Why not? What is there? Why shouldn’t I go there?” But if you go there, and you get beat, then you don’t go again. You see. Sometimes father tells the son, you don’t do this action. If son decide well father is saying, why he is saying, this son curiosity, due to some passion, he goes anyway. Then he gets in trouble. The intelligent person, he won’t do the same mistake again. “Baba! Forgive me, I made a big mistake.” Like that someone he comes in this material world, one wants to get out, Hare Kṛṣṇa! Never he comes back. One time you may make a mistake. Twice you won’t make a mistake.

Devotee: In Brahmaloka there is no action to do?

Jayapatākā Swami: No action means…

Devotee: Some Brahmavādī, they want to go Brahmaloka, brahma-jyoti and they merge themselves in the brahma-jyoti. Whether they can work there for Kṛṣṇa?

Jayapatākā Swami: No, nothing. No work, nothing, Nirākāra.

Devotee: They cannot go to Kṛṣṇa?

Jayapatākā Swami: Merging in brahma-jyoti, merging Kṛṣṇa same thing. More or less. Devotees they reject this merging. Merging means these 5 types of mukti - sāyujya, sālokya, sāmīpya, sārṣṭi, sārūpya. And the devotees, they reject this sāyujya. Sāyujya means the merging. You see. It is more relish-able to have Kṛṣṇa as one’s son, to have Kṛṣṇa as one’s master or one’s friend, one’s lover, why one wants to merge with Kṛṣṇa, that is like a spiritual suicide or to merge with His effulgence.

Devotee: After merging, where they go?

Jayapatākā Swami: They, they float in the brahma-jyoti. They are one of the life particles there, for so long.

Devotee: And when they come?

Jayapatākā Swami: Then one… How long they can stay there, just as a piece of light? Then again, they either… Generally, they come down, because they don’t know better. So, again they come down.

Devotee: I have a question. About authorized and not authorized you gave description very good. What if board of… board of contact guru will be busy. What do you mean, it is easy to properly guided the guru which is authorized, which is not authorized guru? … purposely…conscious of Krsna himself. Either designations of guru …. or … conscious…How to distinguish between these two factors? ….

? Jayapatākā Swami: you see.

Devotee: … not elaborately, I mean in the ordinary way, what an ordinary man can understand to some extend?

Jayapatākā Swami: Just like, when Parīkṣit Mahārāja was cursed to die, at that time there was so many sages and munis present. And he asked this one question that, “I have 7 days to live, what should be my code of action in these 7 days where I can reach to the highest destination?”

And of course there were Brahmavādīs, there were jñānīs, yogīs, bhaktas. There were all types of ṛṣis and munis. And each has their own path of karma, jñāna, different proposals they naturally they all had. So, in this way it was a very critical situation that, because at that point Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he was open to accept one person as his ultimate śikṣā-guru, at that time complete shelter and he would follow him for the last 7 days. Even Nārada, Vyāsadeva were present, but they weren’t at that time saying anything. So, in this way there was a discussion being held amongst them that who will be the one to give the instruction.

At just at that moment, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he entered to that sabhā and everyone stood up except for his father Vyāsadeva and Nārada, the father of his guru, the guru of his father. And Śukadeva, he was a liberated soul from birth and he had received instruction about Kṛṣṇa by Vyāsadeva and also seen Kṛṣṇa even in the womb of his mother. So, then everyone unanimously said that, “Let… Śukadeva should instruct Parīkṣit. He is a liberated soul of the highest order.” And then Śukadeva, he spoke this Bhāgavatam. So, there are all levels of ethics according to different ah to different standards of realization of absolute truth.

Just like it says, in the Bhāgavatam, Śukadeva described that,

vadanti tat tattva-vidas 
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam 
brahmeti paramātmeti 
bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

The different seers of truth have described the nomenclature of Absolute to be Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān. But they all is non-different Absolute truth. But difference here is they are seeing in different realizations. So, according to one’s realization, they all have different ethics. Those do not have this absolute realization, these three are absolute, then they will give so many other type of instruction according to sattva, rajo, tamo, relative, relative instructions, moral nītī, and nyāya-vicāra will be given.

So, just like that Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he was accepted to be the authority because he has seen Bhagavān that mean he also knew Paramātmā and Brahman. He had already realized Brahman and he also realized Paramātmā and Bhagavān. He knew all the three. When he was only Brahmavādī, he didn’t know Bhagavān, But, by mercy of his father Vyāsadeva, he could realize all the aspect of the absolute truth. He was thoroughly conversant with the material world and the spiritual world everything. You see. So, when one is only partially conversant, naturally there will always be a point where one will become confused what to do, what not to do.

Devotee: he becomes conscious of its… in due course of time. That’s what we mean in that?

Jayapatākā Swami: You see, the point is one should, the real safe way is one takes the shelter of the higher authority. Just like in a court of law, they are taking 2 lawyers, both have the arguments, both have the law books and they are presenting before the judge. The judge is considered to be a more senior person. In any case, even sometimes the lawyers are more highly paid. But ultimately the judge, because he will study the law books and according to the authority of law book, he will give the verdict. You see. So that he will also give the reference of other cases. So, law book means, what the lawyer says is the śāstra and the verdict of other cases - this is like what other sādhus, mahājanas have said it and done other time, this is also a type of evidence. So, it is the duty of such judge to know all these things.

So, the guru, he has to be conversant with what is the, that particular, that śāstra has so many different branches, you see. So, there might be medical guru, there might be astro-guru for warfare and so on. But, when one comes into the spiritual, that also the spiritual scriptures are there. Bhagavad-gītā, Upaniṣads, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, these are the spiritual line and there is upāsanā-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa, different kāṇḍas. When one comes to the spiritual line, then there are also special scriptures for that. And one is conversant with those scriptures, and with those instruction, then he has inside into everything, that is the most subtle of all the sciences of the Vedas.

ātma vijñāna - to know the self. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the goal of the Vedānta-sūtra. To inquire in to the absolute truth. So, therefore one has to have bona fide spiritual master who is conversant with the spiritual matter, to be able to be sure, even one himself may think this is the way. But it should be confirmed, on my own idea, I may be wrong. Why should one take the risk, you see, one’s life mistake and then one is in a great difficult situation?

Bali Mahārāja, he made a mistake, he lost everything, you see, in terms of his guru’s vision. Of course, Bali Mahārāja had a materialistic guru. He didn’t have a spiritual guru. So, His material guru gave him instruction, how to become powerful in the material world. But in the ultimate issue, when it came a choice to follow Kṛṣṇa or follow a materialistic guru, at that time he didn’t follow the instruction of Śukrācārya, he followed Kṛṣṇa. So, he lost his material possession temporarily. But he gained again more than what he had. But he achieved eternal liberation from Kṛṣṇa. And he also achieved the eternal association of Kṛṣṇa. And later, then his guru also admitted that he was influenced by some material consideration, what had been done was correct. So, one has to find such a spiritual master that doesn’t have any material consideration and then he always gives the objective and absolute advice, what is to be done, what is not to be done.

So, what I feel, I feel still part of your question is unanswered. Maybe you can clarify.

Devotee: I understood alright, but still something is very… In due course of time we ourselves will be in a position to ISKCON an authorized institute. I mean when our conscious was ….

Jayapatākā Swami: I don’t understand exactly what you mean. You mean at that time, you don’t need a guru.

Devotee: No no guru is there. From guru we are taking alright….

Jayapatākā Swami: Guru means he is the person who is already discarded the unauthorized.

Devotee: no, he may have said in good way…

Jayapatākā Swami: Someone, unless he himself discarded the unauthorized action, then how he can, be able to descend. So many people they will tell you, “Do this, don’t do that.” But then they themselves they are doing the same thing, they are saying don’t do. So, no one thinks why I should follow this person. He is a non-sense. So, that the ācārya means has to show by example.

Unless he is able to do, then how he can tell others you do. Even he may say, but that won’t be taken so seriously. So, one has to come up to the platform where he no longer performs unauthorized action. So, in the beginning that is difficult, therefore Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā, one should do by abhyāsa, by practicing, by regular practicing.

Just like we are saying, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa every day, some good way is counting or a fixed number, then this is a type of practice. One practices - avoiding, offering the food to Kṛṣṇa and taking prasādam, one practices - in bowing down before the Deity, before the Guru. You see. Immediately the mind may not have such a faith that, “Who is Kṛṣṇa? Why I should bow to?” Alright! If some explanation is given, “Kṛṣṇa is Lord, you should bow down, you are dependent on Him.”, still in our heart, we are not feeling such a humility yet, still we should bow down. When we know that this is the actual proper thing to do, authorized thing to do, we should bow down.

By bowing down, we realize, “Oh! This is very nice to be bowed down before Kṛṣṇa.” You see. Our mind is keeping us from realization, so when we actually act in the authorized way, then, whether or not our mind could understand or not in the beginning, we transcend the mind.

Sometimes people think, first I have to fully realize everything then I’ll do it. But that is, that is not the correct way, first we should satisfy ourselves with our intelligence, not blindly we should do. But we should be satisfied with our intelligence. Even therefore faith or the full mentality may not be formed yet. Still we should practice. And by practicing the mind is purified. Because due to so much contact with the material action, our mind has become sinful in nature. Therefore, intelligence is better than mind.

Intelligence may understand these things. But mind will resist. Mind will always come up so many ideas so many doubts. But by just practicing, and then approaching authority and then whatever doubts come we discuss, but continuing with practicing, the mind becomes washed. Just like the mind is described like a mirror. Consciousness is like a mirror. If the mirror is dirty, we look in it, we don’t see when we see our face clearly. Will we see the face clearly? No. So, we have to clean the mirror.

So, last night I was saying the bhajana, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ. The ceto-darpaṇam like a mirror, and that mārjanaṁ means to cleanse it, with what with this saṅkīrtana and what does it do, bhava-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ. The bhava means the birth and death. So many births were taken, why we get this body, that means our previous birth we had some desire to enjoy in a certain way. So, according to our desires, we are given a body.

Why one man is given a body in a rich family or in a pious family, and someone is given in a harijan family or in an aborigine family or in an animal body. The desire was such they want to live in such a way. Even in the rich families today who are engaging in so much drinking, and so much illicit activity, they don’t have to take birth in such a high family to enjoy those things. Next birth, they will get such a birth, where they can do those things unrestricted, because there are so many social restrictions in a good family. So, they will be born in a low family, they can go on unrestrictedly. You see. So, according to one’s desire, one is getting a certain body, but then that is a karma.

But what if we transcend that, you see, materialistic desire, that rebirth dāva, that these desires are like forest fire, they are like āguna, burning us. So, by chanting, cleansing the consciousness, no matter what was the birth may be, he transcends that and the forest fire is put out. So, some’s consciousness are more filled with dust.

The more one is in sattva-guṇa, the less dust is there. Still some dust is there. That has to be cleansed off. The last materialistic consideration, when it is cleansed off, then one can see him pure self, Bhagavān in the full knowledge. That's why we are requesting that, people should practice, they should make the family into a Kṛṣṇa conscious family.

If Kṛṣṇa is in the center, just like governor Patvadi told me how he had in his family, every morning when the dādās would come, they would all, say “Jaya Śrī Kṛṣṇa” to all the members and then they would go. Right from the very birth, they have been trained that they have to have Kṛṣṇa in the center. But of course, it goes even more than “Jaya Śrī Kṛṣṇa.” That’s the beginning. That’s more than the beginning, that is the advanced stage, no doubt. But then, the science of actually cultivating that to the perfectional platform. But one can actually be, feeling always transcendental happiness in serving Kṛṣṇa. This is required in society, those who are little pious are responsible, is for them to show the example, to lead the way. You see.

So, what happens is that some basic faith is there in Kṛṣṇa, basic understanding. But in the fine point, what is material, what is spiritual, what is divine, what is māyā, this distinct line very hard to cut, unless one has that vision, “Where the material attachment end? Where does the spiritual world begin?”

What happens is that, as the more that one becomes distant, from the shelter of scripture, and from the understanding of siddhānta, conclusion of the scripture, from guidance of bona fide spiritual master, it becomes hazy. And at that point, it becomes a ritual. It becomes a ritual to do these things. But, “Why one is to do it? What is the meaning? What is the purpose?”, gradually that one forgets. And so, what happens is that, the ritual then also gradually, after 2-3 generations, “Why am I doing this? I don’t know, we are doing it.” Then they are thinking, “Why am I doing?”, they stop it.

Just like, you find that in Gujarat, most of the high-class Gujarati, they are all vegetarian. Not only Gujarati, in India in general, they are all vegetarian. But the Patels, and the other Gujarati when they go to America, most of them give up vegetarianism. In Nairobi, they stay vegetarian, because they are very big Gujarati community. When they go to America, I have seen 80%, 90% they start eating meat, even cow meat. Although they are Gujarati family, if they come back home, they will follow. Because why, they are separated from that tradition, that ritual is there with in the community. There is a social bind is there.

But they don’t know, why they are supposed to eat vegetarian. Because the whole Gujarat has begun the Vaiṣṇava state practically due to the preaching of Vallabhācārya and other great ācāryas there. So, everyone is worshiping Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is being offered the prasad. They are taking the prasāda. In this way everyone is vegetarian. But because somewhere along the line, the reasons why the philosophy, there must have been some neglect. Otherwise why, when they are going on their own? They are the only one Gujarati in some place in America, then their boss is saying, “Here, have one hamburger.”

So many I have seen. Then I say. Then they feel very embarrassed. Then once they know the reason, they say, “Why? Why can’t I eat meat? What’s the harm?” Then they get angry, “Why not?” They never say that in India. Because they are practicing. But there, they don’t know. When I explained, “This is why, this is the karma, so many things.”, then, “ah! Acha. I won’t do any more.” So, that person you see, once he has that knowledge, then he will do it. So, the trouble is that just a ritual alone, somehow or another one is practicing but it is not based on knowledge, So, what happens, in time of distress, when time of pressure, he may, he may leave it, because he doesn’t have that knowledge.

Jñāna, vijñāna, the knowledge, the application of the knowledge, both have to be there. So, they may know the knowledge, “I shouldn’t do”, but Vijñana, “Why! I shouldn’t do?” they don’t know. So, when they get alone, they know I shouldn’t do, but why, then the pressure māyā is so great, “Never mind! I want to do.” So, that‘s why in India people know jñāna, but from jñāna comes vijñāna. They know so many things about Kṛṣṇa, but the detail science of that, why, how, how is it coming, why it is necessary - this thing gradually, somehow many places people are forgetting, and it becomes simply tradition.

So, then in modern schools, there is no religious teachings in the schools, simply science, simply also bad character. They are learning all the politics, drinking, smoking. Mother, father not there, boarding school, go on have so many illicit activities. Are learning just like adhakama. We call as place of bad activities.

So, naturally, then they also in the science class, they are telling them, “No, creation is done by chemicals. Man can make immortal by 2020 years, don’t worry. It is going to happen for sure.” So many bluffs they are giving. So, naturally, then they are studying to doubt, “What is our Indian culture? It doesn’t have any real scientific basis. This will ruin the country so on so forth.” And then they start to not follow, but do they actually know, “What is the real explanation of Vedas? Have they ever had?” “No. They don’t.” Therefore, they have been misled by this propaganda. So, that’s the jñāna they had, some knowledge. But they didn’t have the vijñāna to fight the so called vijñāna of the modern.

So, when one can see that, “What is the limitation of the material science? Where is the beginning of the spiritual science?”, then, “One can know, what to do? What not to?” That’s the whole thing. Not that one should only be dependent on guru every time I want to do something, ask him, “Can I do this, can I not?” No, the instruction is to give light. In the future, then I will be able to know myself, what to do, what not to do in that sphere. If I come up again some unknown situation, that I am not familiar with, what the scripture or guru wants, then I may just confirm that.